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Old 09-21-2012, 07:26 PM   #1
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Default Do We Have Shills Here Also?

It appears that Hobby King has started paying people to monitor RC forums and post good things about HK products. I have mixed emotions about that in itself, but I won't go there. But now, some folks have taken it few steps farther and they are now personally attacking many people that say anything remotely negative about HK.

I was personally attacked by two different people who I have never dealt with on RCG. And most know me, I try to get along with everyone and never say anything bad about anyone. Since that happened, I'm pretty sure HK is paying folks to monitor the RC forums. I'm sure whoever came up with this idea, and I'm not saying it is a bad idea, never intended it to turn into the goon squad it has turned in to.

So it makes me wonder if that practice is happening here or are the mods putting a handle on it.

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Old 09-21-2012, 08:44 PM   #2
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Did you check the previous posts of those individuals? Should be pretty easy to tell if they disproportionally promote one vendor (or if they are just #*%#&s who like to pick fights).

(I checked yours. They seem to be disproportionally helpful and civil!)

There are individuals whose sole purpose on earth seems to be to make the internet as miserable as possible for everyone else. I try to ignore them.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:06 PM   #3
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We do our best to monitor for shill accounts and our Vendor policy is very specific and we enforce it as well as we can. We want everyone to be above board if they are a company rep in any way.

With that said, it's sometimes very difficult to distinguish a shill account. We do have pro "so and so" vendor posters and totally anti "so and so" vendor posters. A couple of times in the past I've asked individuals who really are anti any post made about a vendor (and the only time they post on WF is if someone mentions a vendor that they don't like) to have the respect to make other contributions and not just vendor bashing posts.

The Little Triangle under your user ID is the "Report Post" button. We encourage people to use it when they feel they need to. We'll take as unbiased a look as we possibly can at the reported post and give our honest feedback to the person reporting it. Sometimes they don't like what we have to say but we ask that they respect our decision.

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 09-21-2012, 11:26 PM   #4
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BTW, the entire moderator staff and myself are volunteers here. None of us are paid by the owners and any events we attend are on our own dime. Last year we couldn't even get any WF swag to give away at electric events......

We're hoping the new owners let us get some promotional stuff this year!!

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 09-21-2012, 11:35 PM   #5
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Shills only really become a problem when the forum owners actively support/protect them.

Ask me why your DX5e is doomed... and how to fix it.
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:52 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Don Sims View Post
The Little Triangle under your user ID is the "Report Post" button. We encourage people to use it when they feel they need to. We'll take as unbiased a look as we possibly can at the reported post and give our honest feedback to the person reporting it. Sometimes they don't like what we have to say but we ask that they respect our decision.
I learned something new today!

But, so far have not any occasion to use that "little triangle".

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Old 09-22-2012, 01:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Don Sims View Post
BTW, the entire moderator staff and myself are volunteers here. None of us are paid by the owners and any events we attend are on our own dime. Last year we couldn't even get any WF swag to give away at electric events......

We're hoping the new owners let us get some promotional stuff this year!!

Let me say I appreciate the work you guys do. Thank you!
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Don Sims View Post
BTW, the entire moderator staff and myself are volunteers here. None of us are paid by the owners and any events we attend are on our own dime. Last year we couldn't even get any WF swag to give away at electric events......

We're hoping the new owners let us get some promotional stuff this year!!
I take good care of my WF swag,hat-shirt-stickers, car-tag,,
WattFlyer Rocks!, bubsteve


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Old 09-22-2012, 02:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by pmullen503 View Post
Did you check the previous posts of those individuals? Should be pretty easy to tell if they disproportionally promote one vendor (or if they are just #*%#&s who like to pick fights).

(I checked yours. They seem to be disproportionally helpful and civil!)

There are individuals whose sole purpose on earth seems to be to make the internet as miserable as possible for everyone else. I try to ignore them.
You are certainly right about that.

Once I started getting the abuse I did check their posting history and I did not even see any posts in that forum that we were in. Which made me wonder how they even found the thread in the first place. Plus the majority of their posts are definitely pro for one vendor and one vendor only. It seems way too obvious for me and many others for that matter.

Then a friend told me there was a link to the thread in another forum. Apparently they monitor that forum for some reason.

And thanks for the kind words, I try to be helpful and considerate as much as possible.

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Old 09-22-2012, 02:47 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Don Sims View Post
We do our best to monitor for shill accounts and our Vendor policy is very specific and we enforce it as well as we can. We want everyone to be above board if they are a company rep in any way.

With that said, it's sometimes very difficult to distinguish a shill account. We do have pro "so and so" vendor posters and totally anti "so and so" vendor posters. A couple of times in the past I've asked individuals who really are anti any post made about a vendor (and the only time they post on WF is if someone mentions a vendor that they don't like) to have the respect to make other contributions and not just vendor bashing posts.

The Little Triangle under your user ID is the "Report Post" button. We encourage people to use it when they feel they need to. We'll take as unbiased a look as we possibly can at the reported post and give our honest feedback to the person reporting it. Sometimes they don't like what we have to say but we ask that they respect our decision.

Thanks for the feedback Don. It seems to me that you guys are keeping a good handle on it and that is why we do not see it going on in this forum.

Frank

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Old 09-22-2012, 03:16 AM   #11
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We really try to keep the negativity behind the scenes as much as possible and ban spammers, shill accounts, and bots daily.

The mods do a fantastic job with the help of site members when they spot em keeping the site as clean as possible so people can enjoy the site without a lot of spam clutter.

Sometimes I worry that the mods spend so much time cleaning the clutter that they don't enjoy the site....

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 09-22-2012, 03:19 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
Let me say I appreciate the work you guys do. Thank you!
Thanks for posting and participating xmech!


Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
I take good care of my WF swag,hat-shirt-stickers, car-tag,,
WattFlyer Rocks!, bubsteve
Steve, I noticed your hat had been worn a lot and wanted to give you a newer one at SEFF this year... I like you a lot man but won't give up my WF hat!!!

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 09-22-2012, 05:07 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by pmullen503 View Post
Did you check the previous posts of those individuals? Should be pretty easy to tell if they disproportionally promote one vendor (or if they are just #*%#&s who like to pick fights).

(I checked yours. They seem to be disproportionally helpful and civil!)

There are individuals whose sole purpose on earth seems to be to make the internet as miserable as possible for everyone else. I try to ignore them.
Very true. The problem is that they think they can play a game of "everyone's an idiot and doesn't know any better", because they can't prove it. At some point it becomes obvious however. The most obvious thing about it is the vindictive tones. I have seen people defend and support many businesses, but until recent times they were generally positive, hoping that people would have their issues resolved, and even trying to help them. What we have seen lately at various forums is quite different, and really seems to be the produce of common directives from common sources, with people under them. Making things worse, they are not known as people like PMullen and BillG, wanting to be known for their contributions to the forums, but hide their identities, using anonymity to hide from what they do. I know that I really enjoy being part of the building community, and I'm sure you do also. Their are a number of great communities to contribute to in the hobby, but most of these recent questionable company oriented posters seem to have little or no record of meaningful contributions and involvement in the forums, nor do they seem to be interested in having any.
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:22 AM   #14
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I would like to say, I think the mods do a fantasic job on this forum. I seem to attract negitive opinions sometimes and don't always know when to drop an argument. I haven had any real problems so far on this forum.

Also, I religiously report spam using the triangle icon. So far, every spam post has been removed very quickly, without innncident.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:01 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
Shills only really become a problem when the forum owners actively support/protect them.
I'm glad to see that is not happening here.

But there is the perception that it is happening elsewhere though.

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Old 09-23-2012, 04:51 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
Very true. The problem is that they think they can play a game of "everyone's an idiot and doesn't know any better", because they can't prove it. At some point it becomes obvious however. The most obvious thing about it is the vindictive tones. I have seen people defend and support many businesses, but until recent times they were generally positive, hoping that people would have their issues resolved, and even trying to help them. What we have seen lately at various forums is quite different, and really seems to be the produce of common directives from common sources, with people under them. Making things worse, they are not known as people like PMullen and BillG, wanting to be known for their contributions to the forums, but hide their identities, using anonymity to hide from what they do. I know that I really enjoy being part of the building community, and I'm sure you do also. Their are a number of great communities to contribute to in the hobby, but most of these recent questionable company oriented posters seem to have little or no record of meaningful contributions and involvement in the forums, nor do they seem to be interested in having any.
I think that is the funny part or the sad part depending on how you look at it. When those two guys attacked me, I did not know who they were since I have never dealt with either of them. Apparently I was labeled a HK hater as they went at me pretty good. It was clear they did not know me at all based on their comments. It was pretty easy to see what they were doing though and based on their post history which is easy to see by clicking on the magnifying glass under their name, they make a habit of that.

I just don't understand how they can continue to get away with it.

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Old 09-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
I think that is the funny part or the sad part depending on how you look at it. When those two guys attacked me, I did not know who they were since I have never dealt with either of them. Apparently I was labeled a HK hater as they went at me pretty good. It was clear they did not know me at all based on their comments. It was pretty easy to see what they were doing though and based on their post history which is easy to see by clicking on the magnifying glass under their name, they make a habit of that.

I just don't understand how they can continue to get away with it.

Frank
I saw that Frank. Those guys in particular are very active supporters of one single company and are protected by the forum management yet they are free to report you at will. The best thing to do is not engage them because no matter how right you are you will loose, the staff will see to it.

I for one have no love for that particular company and I make no excuses or apologies, they ripped me and a lot of others off. I am not a shill and I don't have any business dealings with any company, I'm just a retired guy who loves to build and fly planes.

It amazes me that that sort of thing is allowed to happen but the best way I have found to stop it is to post here and on the RC Universe where the atmosphere is much friendlier and far more hobby related. Sorry you had to run across those people, they are really bringing that place down.

The TRUTH is not always what it seems.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:39 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TopSpin View Post
I saw that Frank. Those guys in particular are very active supporters of one single company and are protected by the forum management yet they are free to report you at will. The best thing to do is not engage them because no matter how right you are you will loose, the staff will see to it.

I for one have no love for that particular company and I make no excuses or apologies, they ripped me and a lot of others off. I am not a shill and I don't have any business dealings with any company, I'm just a retired guy who loves to build and fly planes.

It amazes me that that sort of thing is allowed to happen but the best way I have found to stop it is to post here and on the RC Universe where the atmosphere is much friendlier and far more hobby related. Sorry you had to run across those people, they are really bringing that place down.
Thanks Topspin, I appreciate that. When a person gets attacked like that, it really turns them off to RCG. Reporting the offender does not seem to do any good. For example, there was a guy over there that stalked and harassed me for years. I mean not for a couple weeks or months, but for years. I contacted the mods and they did nothing about it. Apparently, I was not the only one he was doing this to and finally, the mods received enough complaints and gave the guy the boot. It's really sad to let things get so far out of control like that. But what can you do? People are only guests on these forums and if the owners let folks get away with stuff like that, there is absolutely nothing a regular user can do besides quit using that forum. And believe me, I thought about quitting many times. But I didn't because I think that is what that guy was trying to get me to do. To some, RC forums are their hobby and not the other way around.

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Old 09-30-2012, 04:12 PM   #19
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That's true there are some who have A single trainer and make 200 posts a month on the forums. I remember when that guy (won't mention him here) from Michigan was stalking you. Glad to see that idiot gone. I was a contributor on that site since 2005 but got booted because I ran afoul of the same crowd you ran into. The shills will never own up to it and RCG won't make them but they are so in your face we pretty much know who they are anyway.

Anyway, I'm having too much fun just building and flying to worry about those freaks. I do need to either crash or sell some of these planes though cause I'm running out of room.

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Old 09-30-2012, 04:20 PM   #20
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Too bad RCG had the best moderation around years ago it was strict and swift. Then they were all let go (from their volunteer jobs...LOL) and then things slipped there.

Still a great site - but not like it used to be as the trolls are allowed to post a bit too long. LTUP is INSANE and I don't even look there.

I really wish we could get the volume over here.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:16 PM   #21
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hey man , im pretty new at flying and flying forums. but ive been around other forums for years. this forum has been extremely helpful, in just the short period of time ive been around here. if i wanna learn something or need help, this is where ill be coming. also have sent my very few buddys i have that fly here also.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:30 PM   #22
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Hi
This is one of the best Rc forums. the only issue i have is with the E flight only.
I operate many land and sea based rc vehicles and also run ic engines and theres nothing for any of them here so i still have a RCG account for those.
With that said i would like to thank those responsible for running the forum, i know its a thankless job and we all appreciate all of the hard work you do on our behalf.
Take care
Yours Hank

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Old 09-30-2012, 07:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TopSpin View Post
That's true there are some who have A single trainer and make 200 posts a month on the forums. I remember when that guy (won't mention him here) from Michigan was stalking you. Glad to see that idiot gone. I was a contributor on that site since 2005 but got booted because I ran afoul of the same crowd you ran into. The shills will never own up to it and RCG won't make them but they are so in your face we pretty much know who they are anyway.

Anyway, I'm having too much fun just building and flying to worry about those freaks. I do need to either crash or sell some of these planes though cause I'm running out of room.
I think the fact that I tried for years to solve the problem between myself and that guy and got nowhere really led me to believe that these forums are THE hobby. I was so frustrated I finally had to do this. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1572687 I just felt like I had no other option. I think what drove me to that point was that guy had recruited some buddies and they were data mining all my posts and reporting anything that looked like I would get a point for. It seemed like every time I logged in, I saw a PM that said "Please edit your post". It was getting out of control there for a little while. For some reason they wanted me off RCG at all costs. For the life of me I can't figure out why. But a friend of mine and long time RCG user told me that some people are simply "jerks" and there is nothing you can do about it.

Now I try to level best to stay away from aything this is non-hobby related. I stick to my build clinics, helping people out and my WAA-08 thread.

Frank

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Old 10-01-2012, 12:05 AM   #24
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I got a point on RCG a couple years ago for saying something good about a local hobby shop. The moderator assumed I was trying to promote my own business and penalized me without even questioning it. I was pretty torqued about that.

I like RCG, but I think that this forum is the best. There seems to be less people trying to cause trouble and pick fights. I believe that the moderators here do a good job of keeping the shills at bay. I don't understand what the shills and troublemakers are trying to accomplish because it does nothing to promote our hobby. The main reason I have stuck with RCG is that I still fly some glow powered planes and Wattflyer is electric only.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:13 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
I think the fact that I tried for years to solve the problem between myself and that guy and got nowhere really led me to believe that these forums are THE hobby. I was so frustrated I finally had to do this. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1572687 I just felt like I had no other option. I think what drove me to that point was that guy had recruited some buddies and they were data mining all my posts and reporting anything that looked like I would get a point for. It seemed like every time I logged in, I saw a PM that said "Please edit your post". It was getting out of control there for a little while. For some reason they wanted me off RCG at all costs. For the life of me I can't figure out why. But a friend of mine and long time RCG user told me that some people are simply "jerks" and there is nothing you can do about it.

Now I try to level best to stay away from aything this is non-hobby related. I stick to my build clinics, helping people out and my WAA-08 thread.

Frank
A few years ago someone wrote bad info about my posts in wattflyer. The guy was completely wrong, and that fact was proven.

Eventually www.wattflyer.com permanently banned the guy from wattflyer.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
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