Beginner's scratch build

[maxflyer]

As I promised, here is my modification of the Chas. Pirkey STC. My goal was to simplify and streamline. Simplification involved the tail. I wanted to eliminate the split elevator, and the counterbalanced rudder, hopefully adding a bit of strength and making for easier repair. I'm not a big fan of components hanging out in the breeze, especially the battery. It's always a hassle trying to get the wiring tucked up and out of the airstream. I essentially constructed a normal, but narrow fuselage structure, just wide enough to house the battery, ESC, and RX. EPP bulkheads span the fuselage interior at strategic points. The battery compartment is open on the top, the lipo held in with a velcro strap. The RX and ESC compartments are open on the bottom for cooling and access.

Components are identical to those used on the STC. 5 gr servos, Hitec Minima RX, a Blue Wonder motor and 10A ESC. At 27" the fuselage is 3" longer than the STC, from prop to rudder, and the wingspan is 38" - two inches longer than the plans, and one inch longer than my STC build, but the same planform. Weight is almost identical. AUW without the lipo is 6.65 oz on my STC, and 6.7 oz. on the new version. Graphics were quick-and-dirty. Just enough to keep things from looking boring, and the different patterns above and below the wing were intended to enhance orientation awareness.

Since I almost always have wind to deal with, I wanted an airframe that might be a little more stable than the STC. The short-coupled STC is very maneuverable and fun to fly, but it does have a bit of tail wag. The new bird did, in fact, show quite a bit more stability, and also a higher speed, I assume due to less drag. Loops were larger, but smooth and lazy-feeling. It is a tad less stable in roll, probably due to a bit less dihedral. It acts a little more like a sailplane, which was one of my goals. With the gear placed well forward, landings are very smooth, though it can be a floater, due to that long wing. The one weakness turned out to be the rudder. It was far too small for the longer wing and fuselage. In stiff winds it had very little authority. A bit more wind and it had no authority! It took a combination of skill and luck to get it back and down a couple times. I have since added about a third more rudder, which was easy thanks to my simplified empennage, and it has much more authority now, though
I have had only a couple of very brief test flights, due to the onset of feroceous spring winds in our area.

The whole point of this exercise was to build my own design, a model that met specific goals, an airframe that performed differently than the STC. I used a few known qualities from Pirkey's design to assist me. Building and tweaking your own airframe is invaluable. It teaches one all the skills required to have building and flying success, either with a scratch-build, or with a factory build, which may need adjustments and repairs. It also opens the door to adding inexpensive builds of varying types to your stable. After all, with what's at hand via the web, just about any design info you want is available if you take the time to break out dimensions and equipment requirements presented on sales and manufacturers' sites. If you're handy with computer graphics, you can also "borrow" images and resize them for your own use. With a few inexpensive raw materials a beginner does not have to be held back by the cost of factory airplanes. With time and experience, you can accomplish wonders. I am
constantly stunned by some of the gorgeous foam builds I see on this board. Save yourself some bucks. Increase your knowledge. Roll your own!

[BroncoSquid]

Nice. You know for a "Beginner" you don't sound like one in your write up. To be honest, sence all you really used from the STC is the airfoil shape, I would consider this a whole new plane. Not just a modification. Give it a name.

[maxflyer]

Awe Geeeze! Do I gotta? I'm not gonna draw up plans. It's not destined to become the world's most used trainer. And yes...I AM an RC beginner. I probably have less than 10 hours total on a variety of 3 CH, mostly scratchbuilt foamies, and probably an hour on a Miss2 ARF, most of this time gained 10 years ago. I am NOT a beginning hobbyist or model builder. I have been building stick-and-tissue free-flight scale models since my youth (long ago), and models of all kinds...wait for it...planes, trains, and automobiles. I am also a licensed pilot with 2 homebuilts to my credit, one of which took me 18 years to build from scratch, and is still flying. I considered this the appropriate forum for the subject, primarily to show how a beginner with a bit of aircraft understanding and some modeling experience, can avoid spending $200 on a soon-to-be-crashed factory model just to learn a few early stage flying skills. Really, it doesn't take much time or skill to throw together a simple 3ch model and learn to take off and land with it. Most people, with 10 minutes of demonstration and assistance from a buddy can do it. Yes, the initial pucker factor is going to be high. Yes, you're gonna bonk it, probably many times. But with a few dollars worth of foam and some RC components this can be done with a reasonable investment, and you're going to be far better off in the long run by spending some of that initial time learning your craft and learning how and why airplanes fly (I know that's an alien concept in our now, instant-gratification society). But go ahead, if you have no patience or desire to learn, buy that $200 factory beauty. Hey! It's a free country. BTW, I'm going to leave this forum now, since my feelings have been hurt and my "beginner" qualifications have been challenged. Good luck out there.

[BroncoSquid]

Originally Posted by maxflyer

BTW, I'm going to leave this forum now, since my feelings have been hurt and my "beginner" qualifications have been challenged. Good luck out there.

Hey! No....Wait.....I meant......Aw Dang it!.......Now everyone is gonna hate me. (hangs head, sticks hands in pockets, and kicks a rock)

[maxflyer]

Wounded "semi-beginner" peeks out from kicked rock. Hmmmmmmmmmm

[stevecooper]

Like you cambered wing and the way you sloted it for the air-foil,, But like you said, "may need a bit more dihedral on the wing",, Good Job! bubsteve

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by maxflyer

A I am NOT a beginning hobbyist or model builder. I have been building stick-and-tissue free-flight scale models since my youth (long ago), and models of all kinds...wait for it...planes, trains, and automobiles. I am also a licensed pilot with 2 homebuilts to my credit, one of which took me 18 years to build from scratch, and is still flying. I considered this the appropriate forum for the subject, primarily to show how a beginner....

Sorry, you're a high expert, not a beginner at all. The problem with real beginners is that they are more ingenious than we can anticipate and in the course of designing and flying with no constraining knowledge they come up with all manner of unflyable stuff.

Building stick and tissue free flight planes teaches you more about why and how a model flies than any number of years flying RC. Plenty of expert RC pilots don't know a hundredth of what you know about how to make a plane behave as intended.

Free flight is the university of flying, not the DX7 radio. When you learn to make good free flight designs you have it all over long-experienced RC pilots who haven't done the same.

And because you are a comparative beginner pilot it's only natural that you might consider yourself an unqualified beginner. Believe me, what's easy for you is impossible for an unassisted newbie builder and flier.

Great-looking design there! And well built as well. I'll bet it's a blast to fly!

[maxflyer]

I'm an old-world curmudgeon. I still retain the belief that knowledge is power. I'de rather be a beginner with knowledge, rather than a beginner with a big budget.

[maxflyer]

Bottom line here was that I was not trying to show someone how to build an airplane. I was trying to show how ones thinking might progress as experience is gained. I see this as a hobby that can quickly become boring without the challenges that are naturally generated through knowledge and curiosity.

[stevecooper]

Okay guys,,, Group hug!
bubsteve

[maxflyer]

Strange hobby. When you're holding a model you may be attacked in the woods, whether you're a beginner or an expert.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by maxflyer

I'm an old-world curmudgeon. I still retain the belief that knowledge is power. I'de rather be a beginner with knowledge, rather than a beginner with a big budget.

And how! Man say: when man with money meets man with experience, man with experience ends up with all the money and man with money ends up with nothing but an experience.

How many times when someone here is wondering what in the world is wrong with their plane and I'd like to just hand them a Guillows free flight kit and tell them the answer is in the box. Or in that case, maybe it isn't in the box because Guillows is known for some substandard or badly chosen wood. Even that teaches a lot doesn't it?

When we lost free flight as the gateway to RC we lost a lot.

[BroncoSquid]

If nothing else, thank you for my new word of the day...curmudgeon!
Yes, I had to look it up. Maybe you should put the word under your name as a warning to others!

[BigO]

I like it Did you move the stabilizer down or is the fuselage that much thinner?
You did simplify the tail I like the tail
Let me know when you got the plans drawn up you mangy curmudgeon

[maxflyer]

RR, you said a mouthful! As for my curmudgeonry (is that a word?), I came upon it honestly. I've lived long enough to see the effects of Humankind on themselves and this beautiful planet. As George Carlin said, "Humanity has squandered it's gift. America has squandered it's promise."

BigO, As for my new airplane...let's call it the Longster...realize it wasn't carefully calculated mathematically before its execution. It was just sketched out on a sheet of paper. I used roughly the same planform areas as the STC, eyeballing them directly from the STC plans. As you know from building the STC, a hump in the fuselage is necessary for mounting the airfoiled wing. After drawing the hump, I merely drew the top spine of the fuselage straight back to the tail section, easy to build, and slanting it downward just because it looked better that way. It was a mistake. In order to avoid the vertical stab being any taller (didn't look good standing way up, and I thought it might be too weak) to get what I guessed would be enough area for the rudder, I had to push the horizontal stabilizer lower down on the fuselage. The result of that was, it was more out of the thrust line than I would have preferred, probably reducing elevator effectiveness somewhat. It also immediately became apparent after test flying, that I should have introduced some negative incidence. I had to dial in a bucket load of downward trim to get it to fly level. After a hard nose-in in wind I should have avoided, it was revealed that those two parallel 6mm foam sides, without any structure between them makes for a very good shock absorber, but the plane will never look the same. I took the opportunity to lop off the nose, remounting the motor further back, changing the CG, and somewhat countering the tendency to nose-down. If I built it again I would run the fuselage top straight back, with the tail up high, get the horizontal stab closer to the thrust line, and add a tad of negative incidence. The important thing here is that when you've spent $3 (not counting the RC components) to build an airplane like this, you're not afraid to experiment, and the pucker factor is not that big when you take it out and heave it. Let those creative juices flow bro.

[pattern14]

Deleted post

[maxflyer]

My bad. I guess I didn't understand the word, "beginner." I can build you a piece of furniture, a house, an airplane - real or model. I make art for a living. Still, I considered myself a beginner when it comes to all things RC. I must interpret your comment to mean that one can reach a level of experience that is so all-encompassing that you can never be considered a "beginner" at anything. Sorry if I intimidated any whom you consider to be "beginners." Really...I should have a higher opinion of myself. Maybe there should be a forum for people like me. Hmm..."Renaissance man."

[BigO]

Originally Posted by pattern14

When I first saw the "Beginners Scratch build " tag, I naively thought it would be a beginners scratchbuild, not a major modification of an existing plane. And not done by an experienced modeller with many years of Free flight behind him. Nothing personal of course, but maybe this thread belongs in another forum. Any bona fide beginner would not get a good first impression, as I asked a "real" beginner to read it and see if he found it usefull. He thought it was BS, and honestly , so do I..

no need to hate We just wont read his post anymore
So how do you get bona fide? do you go to a class and if you do do you get a certificate?
And if you are a bona fide beginner what does that allow you to do? what restrictions do i haft to deal with
My last Question Are you a bona fide beginner?

[slipstick]

Originally Posted by maxflyer

My bad. I guess I didn't understand the word, "beginner." I can build you a piece of furniture, a house, an airplane - real or model. I make art for a living. Still, I considered myself a beginner when it comes to all things RC.

So when you want to talk about things specific to radio and controls you're a beginner. But as you so clearly state when it comes to building things from scratch you're a very long way from a beginner.

I look forward to your "Beginner's Radio Installation and Control Setup" and "Beginner's First Few Flights" posts .

Steve

[pattern14]

Hmmm

[maxflyer]

OK, so, based upon the posts I've made here, where do you guys think I should be posting? When I first started visiting Wattflyer, I went to this forum because I felt like I was a, well, beginner. I taught myself to fly 3 CH RC all by my lonesome, using scratchbuilt foamies. I'm still learning about that. I'm having to struggle to absorb and learn about the new battery technology and electronics. If it weren't for topics by AEAJR I would be floundering. I still have to consult my owner's manual each time to bind a new model. I still get butterflies when I land or take off. Yeah, I do have a lot of experience in a lot of areas, but I just see that as being an advantage when I try to tackle something new. I don't consider what I post to be the rules of the Universe, just one guy's opinions. Just using the experience I do have, but don't expect everyone to agree. My curmudgeonry does tend to surface when I see people with no modeling or aviation knowledge wanting advice on what $200 model they should buy so they can join the fun. In my old-fart, pre-baby boomer era, when you wanted to try something like flying an aircraft, you learned all about how aircraft fly and how to fly an aircraft, before you actually flew one. Not today. It's all about instant gratification. I can't help myself. I just want to step in and say, hey...there's another, cheaper way to do this. Just takes a little more time and knowledge. Guess I'm out of time and out of step. My apologies to anyone I've offended.

[stevecooper]

It's Cool Max, I'm glad your here and hope to see more of your planes soon,bubsteve

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by maxflyer

Maybe there should be a forum for people like me. Hmm..."Renaissance man."

There is......RIGHT HERE! Don't be shooed away by (please fill in your favorite epithet suitable for people who shouldn't be paid any attention). You're fine here and I, for one, enjoy your posts.

[maxflyer]

Thinking more about this... The mistake I seem to be making here, is that I posted as "the person I see myself as," rather than on the subject matter. I didn't feel I was qualified to offer advice, or interact as an equal on some of the other forums. I do seem qualified to drag whatever the topic originally was into a completely non-related subject!

[Rockin Robbins]

Don't be too hard on yourself. You posted here. Nobody stopped you so it must have been the right thing to do. Ummmmm.....something like that.

Must be one of them liberals, you know, the people too enlightened to take their own side in an argument? Mkay, you're supposed to make a confident assertion and then it's other people's job to make you feel bad about it. If you do it yourself you're denying them the joy of the internet.