Lippo Battery Advice

[Ali in Austria]

I use many re charge batteries in cameras, sat navs, power tools etc and they benefit from a breaking in cycle of fully charging, fully draining repeated a couple of times to condition them. It is then recommended to keep them in a fully charged state and certainly not leave them drained for lengthy periods.

This is my first use of Lippo Batteries. Does the same apply?

I have also read about the fire risk with Lippo's. Is it best to charge them on something fire resistant, keeping an eye on them of course. What about storage. Are they prone to just catching fire when not in use or connected? Is it advisable to store them in an air tight and fire proof container?

All advice welcome

[JetPlaneFlyer]

No, the same rules don't apply.

• You don't need to cycle them, just charge them and fly but don't work them too hard for the first few cycles.
• NEVER fully discharge a LiPo. If you want them to last then only discharge to the point where the voltage is about 3.7v per cell (measured with the battery 'resting')
• DO NOT store them fully charged for more than a few days. This will damage the battery. Optimum storage voltage is 3.85v per cell but +/-0.1v is near enough.

It's almost unheard of for a LiPo to burst into flames when it's just sitting there in storage but it's sensible to beep them in a safe place away from anything flammable. Same with charging and don't leave them unattended.

[fhhuber]

LiPos don't burn unless they are abused.

Overcharging...
Somewhere between 4.3 and 5.0 v in any one cell and you can expect to start to see it puff. The battery will burn if not removed from the charge immediately... and it might burn anyway at up to 2 days after being taken off charge when overcharged.
Modern chargers, if used correctly, will prevent this by not charging any cell above 4.2 v.

Crash damage...
a bent LiPo can spontaneously ignite up to 2 hours after being bent. (usually within 5 minutes if its going to burn)
A battery that has been punctured/cut WILL burn. It might burn slowly and just get warm... it might go up in flames.

Excess current demand resulting in overheating can cause puffing and burning.

But LiPos are not really any more dangerous than NiCd/NiMh. Abused NiCd and NiMh can explode. (Any battery can burn and/or explode if abused enough)

Most in-flight fires will start at the ESC due to over-current and/or inadequate cooling.
These are obvious installation errors (bad choice of ESC, oversize prop or inadequate cooling)

Most "LiPo fires" during charge will start in the charger. (improper settings, inadequate/blocked cooling vents)

I place my charger on a 1 ft sq ceramic tile and the batteries on ceramic tiles when charging at home.

[Ali in Austria]

Thanks for the info chaps.

I'm looking at this charger to enable me to charge to a storage level http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/TP610CACDC.html

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Originally Posted by Ali in Austria

Thanks for the info chaps.

I'm looking at this charger to enable me to charge to a storage level http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/TP610CACDC.html

That's an ok'ish charger but by today's standards it's lacking in power (80W). It would be fine if you only ever plan to use smaller size LiPos but very limited if you want to move to bigger stuff and to charge quickly. It would still charge larger batteries (up to 6s) but it would be very slow for larger Ah sizes.
For the same money you could get something like the iCharger 206b which has 300W of charge power. Only down side is that for any of the more powerful chargers you need an external DC power supply.
For a little more $ you could be looking at something like the Cellpro Powerlab 6 which has 1000W or power and many more advanced features.

[dahawk]

+1 on the Icharger 206B with 350W PS. I've been using it over 2 years with no issues. Compact and reliable.

-Hawk

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer

That's an ok'ish charger but by today's standards it's lacking in power (80W). It would be fine if you only ever plan to use smaller size LiPos but very limited if you want to move to bigger stuff and to charge quickly. It would still charge larger batteries (up to 6s) but it would be very slow for larger Ah sizes.
For the same money you could get something like the iCharger 206b which has 300W of charge power. Only down side is that for any of the more powerful chargers you need an external DC power supply.
For a little more $ you could be looking at something like the Cellpro Powerlab 6 which has 1000W or power and many more advanced features.

Yeah, 80 watts IMHO kind of limits you to the back yard fliers and similar models.

Agreed on the Cellpro Powerlab chargers. I've got the '8 charger with a lot of programming features such as:

Putting my name and phone number in the LCD display when powering it up

Plus the following charging routines, with the info below showing up in the '8 LCD display.
1. Programming in "A123 Cells 30 Amp" charge rate (The '8 charger automatically determines cell count through the balance cable)
2. Programming in "A123 Cells 15 Amp" charge rate
3. Programming in "A123 Cells 7.5 Amp" charge rate
4. Programming in "A123" two cell backup battery through balance leads only
5. Programming in "Transmitter Nih" charge rate
6. Programming in "LiPo at 2.3 Amp" charge rate
7. Programming in "LiPo at 0.9 Amp" charge rate through balance leads only

Nice thing about these 7 charge routines, that information shows up in the LCD display, so there is much less chance of an error. And if there is an error, the '8 charger will flag it.

If you get the Cellpro charger, be sure to also pick up the "USB Dongle" with it, allowing direct customizing of your charger with a computer.

Several other club members have the Cellpro 10s charger, not quite as versatile as the '6 and '8 chargers, but still a very good unit.

[mattman0182]

If One had a 50 dollar max budget for a charger, which would be best? I'd charge 1 to 3 cell batteries. Probably nothing bigger than 2000mah.

The largest thing I'd use it for would be a parkzone size plane.

Been looking on HK but everyone seems to hate them.

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Hobbyking is ok, just dont expect much in the way of customer service if it goes wrong. For a $50 budget Hobbyking might be your best bet.

[mattman0182]

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer

Hobbyking is ok, just dont expect much in the way of customer service if it goes wrong. For a $50 budget Hobbyking might be your best bet.

Budget does not includE power supply as I have options there. I just dont know what I should be looking for. :/

[JetPlaneFlyer]

This one looks like good value, 200W for $33: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html

[hayofstacks]

I have an older version of that same charger jet flyer posted. It works well and came with a bunch of different leads and will do nimh and nicads as well as life batteries.

Overall, I had one of the buttons fall out and get lost one day, the rest have worked there way loose. You can still stick a pencil eraser in the spot to use it. It will do 2-4 cells fine. Mine says 10a max charge on it, but it will give me an input voltage error even though I have over 12v's at the power supply and have nice and thick wires and clips if I try to do 5 amps or higher on any cell count. Does the same hooked up to a car battery.

Good charger for park flyer sized battery's, haven't tried it on anything much bigger then a 4000mah 3 cell and one or two 3200 4 cells. If you want a cheap charger that will get your foot in the door, this one will work fine.

[pizzano]

AllIn.....

If you're still looking and do not mind ordering from the US.....take a look at these:

http://www.nitroplanes.com/thch.html

I have owned an older version AC680 for 6 years now.....still going strong and comes with a good selection of cables. Quite a few of my buddies had also purchased various models of the Thunder chargers when they became available and after they had some rep built-up. For the money, we've been pretty satisfied!

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Originally Posted by pizzano

AllIn.....

If you're still looking and do not mind ordering from the US.....take a look at these:

The charger I linked was from the US too

At the end of the day it's all Chinese stuff anyway, just order from where you get the most bang for the buck.

[Ali in Austria]

Thanks fellas.

I've gone with the iCharger 206B and the PS350.

[JetPlaneFlyer]

I'm sure you will be happy with the 206b. I have the iCharger 3010b and I'm real happy with it.

[mark786]

I have some more
1) You're always there to monitor the cells (don't leave it unattended)
2) Get a quality battery (Thunder Powers are great)
3) Quality LIPO CHARGER, you MUST (notice the caps) get a LIPO CHARGER. You cannot charge Lipos with ordinary chargers for NI-CD, etc.
4) Investing in a good balancer is a wise decision
5) Get well known Lipo batteries. DO NOT get no named cheap batteries just because they're cheap because you might have to spend another $10,000 fixing your house if it burns.
6) It is not mandatory for you to get a fire-proof box but it is recommended
7) Do not charge/store your Lipo on your plane/Heli
8) Do not charge near flammable/explosive substances (common sense)
9) If your pack is damaged/broken, soak it in salt water for a while then contact your hazardous waste disposal company for advice on throwing it out
10) DO NOT OVERDISCHARGE YOUR LIPO BATTERY (don't fly until you can't get the rotor to turn anymore)!!!
11) Store in a dry, cool area with some sort of case (so it won't get damaged)
12) Connect your charger to the main power supply first then your battery to your charger to prevent shorting your pack
13) Double, Triple check your setting on your charger before you charge your battery
14) Read the charger manual before you charge
15) Always solder the female plug into the battery.
16)If any single cell in your lip drops below 3.0 volts your pack may be ruined. 9.0 volts for a 3 cell pack is too low of a setting on a monitor.
17)IF you crash, set your Lipo aside in a safe place for a while, even if it looks undamaged. Internal shorting can occur and cause a fire
18)When setting up a Lipo power system, always try to match battery Mah capacity to be at least, over the expected current drawfrom your motor and ESC systems. Always use good quality power connectors like deans or similar. Poor quality connectors can = meltdown = burnt model = burnt house or car = dead modeller.
19)Li-POs should NOT get warm during a charge. During a discharge, they should not exceed 140F (worst case, lower is obviously better).
Be Bright, Charge Right
Charge Wrong, You are Gone

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Good advice in general but i'd maybe argue a few points:

4) Investing in a good balancer is a wise decision

IMHO there is no point getting a 'balancer' providing you have a modern good quality balance charger. I don't have a balancer, if I did I would have never ever have used it because my charger balances when it charges. It's almost impossible to buy a LiPo charger these days that doesn't have an inbuilt balancer.

If your pack is damaged/broken, soak it in salt water for a while then contact your hazardous waste disposal company for advice on throwing it out

The salt water thing is a subject of debate. Personally I just fully discharge the battery. Once discharged they don't have enough energy to do anything dangerous. As an experiment I once knocked a nail through one and nothing at all happened. LiPos are reasonably 'environmentally friendly' far more so than for instance Nicad batteries. You can sling then in the general trash once discharged. I'm sure your local hazardous waste management company would come take them if you called them, for a few hundred $ probably

12) Connect your charger to the main power supply first then your battery to your charger to prevent shorting your pack

I regularly connect my LiPos to the charger before powering the charger up, and often leave them connected after charging. This has never once caused any problem.

18)When setting up a Lipo power system, always try to match battery Mah capacity to be at least, over the expected current drawfrom your motor and ESC systems.

I'm not sure how you can 'match' mAh to be at least equal amps? They are different units. To find the maximum safe amps for a battery you need more than just mAh, you need also to consider the battery 'c' rating. ('c' x Ah = max amps)

[fhhuber]

When I dispose of a LiPo... I drive a nail through it and make it burn in a safe location. Then you can just toss the remains in the trash.

It can't burn twice.

[mark786]

Thank you so much JetPlaneFlyer for guiding me in these points.

[mattman0182]

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer

This one looks like good value, 200W for $33: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html

This charger is on backorder so you know what that means on HK lol.

I was giving this one a look though, its only 80 watts but better than nothing. Id have to find the correct power supply as well.
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...arehouse_.html