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Old 03-24-2013, 08:35 PM   #1
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Question rx failures

I fly using Fly Sky 2.4 electronics and over the past year or so have purchased 15 rxs so that I don't have to constantly change over rxs between planes. Recently I've begun to realize that I've had what I consider to be too many rx failures. I've had four give out over the past few months and have had some pretty spectacular crashes as a result. Each time the rx seems fine in all tests and then after a few minutes in the air it seems to lose it's bind and the plane comes straight down... no power... no servo control. When this happens I leave the tx on and and when I walk to the destroyed plane the rx light is still on and not blinking, which suggests that it's bind is OK, when obviously it wasn't a few moments earlier.

Now my question:

Is there something inherently wrong with the Fly Sky FS-R6B receivers so that an inordinate number fail, or am I doing something wrong other than keeping escs away from rxs, which I am very careful to do?

Your help will be very much appreciated as I'm tired of losing planes. In fact, now when I get a new rx I test it out with several flights in my cheap foamies before I'm brave enough to switch it over to my expensive balsa planes.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:12 PM   #2
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Welcome to WF, Sal. These are tough to troubleshoot. I'm not an expert, and hopefully some others will add their advice, and I don't use Fly Sky equipment. But my first question would be what kind of models and power setups are you using these on? I'd wonder if this is a brownout due to low voltage to the rx. Another thing to consider is antennae placement and wires and stuff near the antennae.

The other crappy part about situations like this is I'd start to wonder if it isn't the rx's, but the tx that's the issue.

Like I said, hopefully someone with more knowledge and experienced with that equipment will chime in soon. Good luck!
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:12 PM   #3
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You may also have flaky TX. My buddy had one (different brand) and we blamed it on RX until he gave me some of the 'suspect' ones and I was able to use them without any trouble at all. Difficult problem to diagnose. Having failures with multiple RX is pretty suspicious.
New TX, problem gone.

But, I do suggest a careful look at your power system to make sure that is up to snuff. You need to make sure the BEC in the ESC is up to the servo load, etc.

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Old 03-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #4
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Had a similar problem and found out my receivers were fine. My Spektrum DX7 tx had a defective RF board. Sent it back to HH for repair, they replaced the board, and have not had a glitch since. Blamed my receivers in the beginning, too.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:03 PM   #5
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Yes, RX after RX 'failure' starts to make you think it may not be the RX.

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Old 03-24-2013, 10:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sal View Post
I fly using Fly Sky 2.4 electronics and over the past year or so have purchased 15 rxs so that I don't have to constantly change over rxs between planes. Recently I've begun to realize that I've had what I consider to be too many rx failures. I've had four give out over the past few months and have had some pretty spectacular crashes as a result. Each time the rx seems fine in all tests and then after a few minutes in the air it seems to lose it's bind and the plane comes straight down... no power... no servo control. When this happens I leave the tx on and and when I walk to the destroyed plane the rx light is still on and not blinking, which suggests that it's bind is OK, when obviously it wasn't a few moments earlier.
Now my question:
Is there something inherently wrong with the Fly Sky FS-R6B receivers so that an inordinate number fail, or am I doing something wrong other than keeping escs away from rxs, which I am very careful to do?
Your help will be very much appreciated as I'm tired of losing planes. In fact, now when I get a new rx I test it out with several flights in my cheap foamies before I'm brave enough to switch it over to my expensive balsa planes.
Most likely cause is using to many servo for the BEC in use - overheats, shuts down and then cooled by time model as hit the ground.
BEC originaly for control of motor and only two small servo, now people sre using 4+ servo.
Use a SBEC aka UBEC or switchmode regulator

Electronic Speed Control - Why BEC and LVC cause most EP RX problems, posts #2 & #3.

Much more information available under sub sections
"Battery Care, Performance & DIY Battery Packs."
"ESC & BEC - Setup to prevent majority of all RF Problems, Brownouts & Crashes"
"Glitches & Jitter in Receiver, Servo & ESC - Causes and Cures"
below
"Radio Systems, Accessories, Alterations and FAQ" at
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

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Old 03-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #7
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I have 26 FS-R6B receivers, fly every day, and have never had a problem.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:25 PM   #8
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Default Fly Sky rx failures,

Thanks for the tips.

I have tried another Fly Sky tx, as after awhile I DID become suspicious that it may be the tx not the rxs. I had the same problem. Also, I tried the bad rxs in my old bullet proof Hobby Zone Super Cub, the plane I learned how to fly with and have repaired innumerable times..., in case it was an electronic interference problem within the planes... same problem with the same rxs in the super Cub. I'm going to try an independent BEC hooked up in parallel to the power input side of the ESC to power the servos. It's something I hadn't thought of and easy enough to do.

Thanks again for the tips,
Sal
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sal View Post
I fly using Fly Sky 2.4 electronics and over the past year or so have purchased 15 rxs so that I don't have to constantly change over rxs between planes. Recently I've begun to realize that I've had what I consider to be too many rx failures. I've had four give out over the past few months and have had some pretty spectacular crashes as a result. Each time the rx seems fine in all tests and then after a few minutes in the air it seems to lose it's bind and the plane comes straight down... no power... no servo control. When this happens I leave the tx on and and when I walk to the destroyed plane the rx light is still on and not blinking, which suggests that it's bind is OK, when obviously it wasn't a few moments earlier.

Now my question:

Is there something inherently wrong with the Fly Sky FS-R6B receivers so that an inordinate number fail, or am I doing something wrong other than keeping escs away from rxs, which I am very careful to do?

Your help will be very much appreciated as I'm tired of losing planes. In fact, now when I get a new rx I test it out with several flights in my cheap foamies before I'm brave enough to switch it over to my expensive balsa planes.
Can't comment on Sky Fly radios, no one in my club uses them. As others in this thread have indicated, make certain it's not your transmitter.

More than a few are using those DX6, DX7, DX8 or higher Spektrum or JR transmitters along with those low cost Spektrum $29 receivers in their various foamies, and smaller models. They've been flawless..
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...eiver-SPMAR400

However, even the Spektrum receivers WILL have problems if your receiver/servo supply is not absolutely rock solid.

If you are using those ESC's with built in BEC's (Battery Elimination Circuit) be very careful if you are using a motor battery with three or more cells. The lower cost ESC's might be using what is called "Linear" voltage regulators for the 5 Volt DC output, and these linear regulators have been known to cause crashes. They can get to hot, shut down, crash your model, and by the time you get to what's left, the regulator has cooled down and is working again.

Yes, I've run many tests on this very subject.

This thread explains what might be going on:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63779

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Old 03-25-2013, 01:02 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Sal View Post
I fly using Fly Sky 2.4 electronics and over the past year or so have purchased 15 rxs so that I don't have to constantly change over rxs between planes. Recently I've begun to realize that I've had what I consider to be too many rx failures. I've had four give out over the past few months and have had some pretty spectacular crashes as a result. Each time the rx seems fine in all tests and then after a few minutes in the air it seems to lose it's bind and the plane comes straight down... no power... no servo control. When this happens I leave the tx on and and when I walk to the destroyed plane the rx light is still on and not blinking, which suggests that it's bind is OK, when obviously it wasn't a few moments earlier.

Now my question:

Is there something inherently wrong with the Fly Sky FS-R6B receivers so that an inordinate number fail, or am I doing something wrong other than keeping escs away from rxs, which I am very careful to do?

Your help will be very much appreciated as I'm tired of losing planes. In fact, now when I get a new rx I test it out with several flights in my cheap foamies before I'm brave enough to switch it over to my expensive balsa planes.

Hi Sal Are you using a UBEC If not, start useing them, they are a great insurance against brown outs, next make sure your receiver is not being blocked by your battery, motor, etc, its called masking, put your receiver towards the back of the plane, where the radio signal wont be blocked, after you have done all this, and your still having problems, then look at your transmitter, there could be a problem there, Hope that helps, Chellie

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Old 03-25-2013, 01:37 AM   #11
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Smile Thanks Everyone. I think I understand my rx problem now.

After reading through the material suggested by all of you I ordered 20 4A UBEC and will add one to each of my planes. Even if it doesn't solve this problem, after doing the reading it just makes sense to have the insurance that a UBEC in the system would offer.

As to wiring...

It seems like simply wiring the UBEC directly from the battery parallel to the ESC should do it. AAAAAND, why is it even necessary to disconnect the BEC that comes from the ESC? It would seem that two power sources, each from the same battery, while redundant and perhaps unnecessary won't cause a problem. In fact, the amperage from both sources would be cummulative!

Or is my limited electronics knowledge leading me astray?

Thanks to All,
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sal View Post
After reading through the material suggested by all of you I ordered 20 4A UBEC and will add one to each of my planes. Even if it doesn't solve this problem, after doing the reading it just makes sense to have the insurance that a UBEC in the system would offer.

As to wiring...

It seems like simply wiring the UBEC directly from the battery parallel to the ESC should do it. AAAAAND, why is it even necessary to disconnect the BEC that comes from the ESC? It would seem that two power sources, each from the same battery, while redundant and perhaps unnecessary won't cause a problem. In fact, the amperage from both sources would be cummulative!

Or is my limited electronics knowledge leading me astray?

Thanks to All,
Sal
Good idea, but IMHO it is NOT a good idea to directly parallel connect two BEC's. They could interact with each other.

It's not hard to isolate them from each other using a pair of high current Shottky diodes. In the USA, one source of them is www.digikey.com, a company that ships all over the world. Ref http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...Q035-ND/358618. If you buy 25 of them, that's about $1.50 each. Order soon, they are down to their last 1500 in stock.

Don't use standard silicon diodes, they have double the voltage drop of the Shottky diodes.

The attached wiring diagram shows how I did it, very successfully over many many flights. Be sure to place small diameter shrink tubing over the wire/diode solder joints to prevent any strain on the wires causing failure at this point. Then, place a piece of shrink tubing over the whole thing. To save the cost of the servo connectors, these diodes could be soldered directly into the wires of the ESC and uBEC if desired.

You don't install the white jumper between the two units shown on the attached photos. That white jumper was used on a twin dual ESC wiring configuration.


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Old 03-25-2013, 08:26 AM   #13
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Listen to Kyleservicetech! Honestly, I guess you might be proposing a good idea, but this is from my ignorant-of-what-goes-on-inside-a-rx point of view. And since I'm ignorant on that matter, I defer to what smarter people say, and what I see works for everyone else. I've never heard anyone running a UBEC and ESC BEC together to the rx. Anyone?
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:23 PM   #14
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Some people claim to hav e gotten good service from the Hobby King "orange" DSM2 compatible RXs....
Even the ones that like them say they get an occasional bad RX.

I bought 3

One DOA.
One had a max range of 25 ft
The third failed after 4 flights. (no crashes)

The failure rate for the cheap Chinese brands is high. I do believe that you got a lot of bad RXs from Fly Sky.

******************

Dual power sources for the RX can work but you have to do it right.

Don't mix types of power source because they won't properly share the load and could backfeed each other.

Most brands of ESC you need to use the diodes as explained above to prevent backfeeding which will overload BOTH ESCs.
Castle ESCs behave well when you use 2 and don't disable the BEC. With a matched pair (EG 2 X Thunderbird 35) you will have no issues and do not need the diodes.

If using a stand alone BEC and not disabling the BEC of an ESC you need to ensure each provides the same voltage and use the diodes.

Do not use a battery (EG 4 cell NiCd direct connected to the RX) and a BEC. The BEC will will not function properly.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post

Don't mix types of power source because they won't properly share the load and could backfeed each other.

Yeah, this can get technical.
These switching type power supplies use what's called a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) type of regulator between your motor's battery, and the uBEC's DC output. (PWM's are common, that's basically what's inside your ESC, as well as your LiPo chargers, AC to DC converters, 120 VAC Cellphone chargers, you name it)

These uBEC's have electronic circuitry that monitors their DC output voltage. Some of them allow the DC output voltage to vary slightly, between "To Low" and "To High" of voltage. Depending on what type of uBEC involved, and the ampere load on them, that "To Low" and "To High" swings back and forth thousands of times per second. We are talking about millivolt levels. The uBEC is constantly monitoring the DC output voltage, and changing the PWM ratio to maintain the proper DC output voltage.

The concern here, is if two uBEC's are directly parallel connected, the millivolt level voltage change of the DC output of the first uBEC is hardwired to the second uBEC and its regulator and PWM circuitry. And, the second uBEC might try to interact with the first unit, and who knows what will result.

So as for me, I'll never directly parallel connect any uBEC's of any types. Even if the supplier says it's OK. To me it's just not worth the risk, when a pair of $2.00 Shottky diodes eliminates the possibility of interaction between the uBEC's. Having been involved in this type of testing at work, one can never verify that all suppliers will be compatible with each other IF directly hardwired to each other. Same thing for a uBEC/LiFe or A123 battery pack as a backup power supply. I've done all of these setups, and isolating them from each other with these Shottky diodes works well. Something I've checked and double checked with my Tektronix 100 Mh dual channel oscilloscope. I've monitored the DC output of my many Castle Creations 10 Amp uBECs on my scope, and that "To Low" and "To High" output voltage swing is easily observable.

For what it's worth, I've got one uBEC that uses a PWM circuit to lower the LiPo battery voltage down to about 8 Volts DC. It was rated for some 35 VDC on its input, and was used on a 21.6 VDC A123 battery pack. Then, a standard 5 volt Linear voltage regulator provides the 5 Volts DC output. This unit provided pure DC output voltage, and worked well. That is, until it quit cold one day when powering it up. (It was not a Castle Creations unit)

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:50 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
I've never heard anyone running a UBEC and ESC BEC together to the rx. Anyone?
Yup, I have on my CC ICE series of ESC's along with the CC 10 amp uBEC. These are isolated from each other with that dual 9 Amp Shottky diode circuit.

This dual input eliminates a "Single point of failure" namely the single DC input to your receiver. If anything happens to that circuit, loose wire, what ever, it's going to be bad.

And, IMHO, for these larger, $$$$ models, providing dual receiver power supplies is worth the cost and effort.

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Old 03-25-2013, 07:42 PM   #17
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Smile Thanks, I ordered the diodes.

Thanks All,

I ordered the diodes and will wire them in as per the very clear diagram and photos provided.

Much Appreciated,
Sal
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Yup, I have on my CC ICE series of ESC's along with the CC 10 amp uBEC. These are isolated from each other with that dual 9 Amp Shottky diode circuit.

This dual input eliminates a "Single point of failure" namely the single DC input to your receiver. If anything happens to that circuit, loose wire, what ever, it's going to be bad.

And, IMHO, for these larger, $$$$ models, providing dual receiver power supplies is worth the cost and effort.
Well, I meant without the additional diodes and such! And I totally agree, it's well worth it for high dollar/high build commitment planes, but I think it's overkill for a HZ SuperCub. But then, learning to make and use these in a SuperCub will prepare you for when you really need it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:01 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
Well, I meant without the additional diodes and such! And I totally agree, it's well worth it for high dollar/high build commitment planes, but I think it's overkill for a HZ SuperCub. But then, learning to make and use these in a SuperCub will prepare you for when you really need it.
Agreed:
Don't know where dual receiver power supplies should be used, but perhaps models over one Kilowatt in power levels would apply. Models of this size can easily carry the weight, and they will be more than a few $$$$.

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Old 03-26-2013, 07:06 AM   #20
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Everything over 4S 3000 mah I disable the ESC's BEC and put in a separate RX battery.

I've melted the solder joints off of a couple of batteries supplying the ESC in my 6S through 12S power systems. (probably bad soldering at the factory)

Losing the RX because of a problem with the motor's batteries is not a good thing. Its not worth the weight for smaller models, but if I have 4S 4000 mah installed then 3 to 6 oz for RX power supply probably isn't a big deal.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Sal View Post
I fly using Fly Sky 2.4 electronics and over the past year or so have purchased 15 rxs so that I don't have to constantly change over rxs between planes. Recently I've begun to realize that I've had what I consider to be too many rx failures. I've had four give out over the past few months and have had some pretty spectacular crashes as a result. Each time the rx seems fine in all tests and then after a few minutes in the air it seems to lose it's bind and the plane comes straight down... no power... no servo control. When this happens I leave the tx on and and when I walk to the destroyed plane the rx light is still on and not blinking, which suggests that it's bind is OK, when obviously it wasn't a few moments earlier.

Now my question:

Is there something inherently wrong with the Fly Sky FS-R6B receivers so that an inordinate number fail, or am I doing something wrong other than keeping escs away from rxs, which I am very careful to do?

Your help will be very much appreciated as I'm tired of losing planes. In fact, now when I get a new rx I test it out with several flights in my cheap foamies before I'm brave enough to switch it over to my expensive balsa planes.
I had exactly the same experience with Spektrum R6000? RX last summer.
Spektrum replaced two of my "Bad" RX. Haven't had the problem since.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:05 PM   #22
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Every maker has some DOA electronics...

Spektrum you send it in and they give you a new one.

FlySky you "eat" the bad ones.

The rate of bad ones from Spektrum is low.

The rate of bad ones from Fly Sky is high enough that many feel they end up paying the same as if they had bought Spektrum by the time they got a good one.

Maybe they'll get better... Dynam got better on their ESCs.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Every maker has some DOA electronics...

Spektrum you send it in and they give you a new one.

FlySky you "eat" the bad ones.

The rate of bad ones from Spektrum is low.

The rate of bad ones from Fly Sky is high enough that many feel they end up paying the same as if they had bought Spektrum by the time they got a good one.

Maybe they'll get better... Dynam got better on their ESCs.
When it comes to things electronic I am dumber than most so I try to listen to the guys who do know about such things.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Every maker has some DOA electronics...

Spektrum you send it in and they give you a new one.

FlySky you "eat" the bad ones.

The rate of bad ones from Spektrum is low.

The rate of bad ones from Fly Sky is high enough that many feel they end up paying the same as if they had bought Spektrum by the time they got a good one.

Maybe they'll get better... Dynam got better on their ESCs.
Not counting the potential loss of your model, motor/ESC/ and battery.

Especially when the Spektrum 4 channel receiver is around $30.00.

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Old 03-26-2013, 08:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bobdaeronort View Post
I had exactly the same experience with Spektrum R6000? RX last summer.
Spektrum replaced two of my "Bad" RX. Haven't had the problem since.

Just in case, check out posting #9 in this thread on those ESC's with linear voltage regulators for the BEC.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63779

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