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Old 04-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #1
250rman
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Default GWS SLOW STICK w/ NEO 450 880kv MOTOR

Hi Guys,

Just built my first SLOW STICK and chose the NEO 450 880kv motor by NEODYM!

When I purchased the motor at my LHS, they sold me the Hobby King HK-HW20 ESC. Its rated at 18 Amps Max & 20 Amp Burst! I plan on running a 11.1 3S 1800mAh Lipo! The Motor Specs ask for a 20-25 Amp ESC though!

Here is my big question! Will I have ANY problems using this ESC with this Neo Motor on my Slow Stick? The guys at my Local Hobby Shop are very confident that I will have No Issues at all. They claim that since its a Slow Stick, I won't be on the Throttle Hard for very long periods of time! They obviously could have sold me a $50 30A Castle ESC, but instead told me that the $20 Hobby King 18A ESC will do just fine!

Anyone with experience with this SET-UP, or any Ideas? Would like to hear your thoughts on this setup!

Thanks~

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Old 04-11-2013, 03:37 PM   #2
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Well you forgot to tell us what size prop you are planning on using?
Will make a huge difference in amp draw dependent on what you have.

When I die, I want to go like my Grandfather did, in his sleep...... Not screaming like the passengers in his plane.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:44 PM   #3
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You control the amp draw with the prop selection.

as diameter and pitch go up, load increases and amp draw increases.

Since your ESC is marginal for the motor you'll have to pay close attention to current demand.
You NEED a Wattmeter or a better ESC. (Having a Wattmeter is never a bad idea)

You should really tell the hobby shop that you need the Castle Thunderbird 18 or 36.
The Thunderbird 18 will survive 24 amps for 30 sec. (but you have to shut it down to cool for 1 minute after that)

It will just be too easy to blow up your "18 amp" ESC (only trustworthy to 15 amps... if you are lucky) with that motor.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:21 PM   #4
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GWS makes some fine products but ESC is not one of them. They barely meet power spec, and the LVC is so bad as to be a disaster.

fly
If you're going to learn to fly them, you have to learn to fix them.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:55 PM   #5
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Considering you can buy a 40 amp ESC from Hobby King for $20, that's what I would do. There's no need to go for a higher priced ESC unless you are towing a Castle banner behind your slow stick and want the supposed prestige from using one of their products.

For my Slow Stick, also running 18A at 200W, I bought a Hobby King 40A Super Brain data logging ESC which is equivalent to a Castle product costing over $100. It's been rock solid.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:47 PM   #6
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Knowing the prop size will help....the common sizes for a Slow Stick weighing between 18 and 22oz's is a 10x5E APC or a GWS EP-1047.....they both will work with the 450 motor and 11.1v 1800mAh you have.....I also use 20amp Turnigy's, although I run with 400 brushless with 7.4v 1600mAh 40c batteries due to weight and C/G preference. HK has the Turnigy pretty cheap!

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Old 04-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #7
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Sorry I forgot to include Prop Info. I will be using a 11 X 7 (APC LP- 11070SF )Prop with the Neo 450 880kv combined with the Hobby King HK- HW20 ESC on the Slow Stick.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:47 PM   #8
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That's a pretty big prop for a SS (why so big since the weight of the SS w/3cell and 450 motor couldn't be more than 25oz's.....?.....now I see why the 11.1v battery, hope it's C rating is better than a 30 burst since the amp draw will be significanly more than a 10x5E APC prop.....If it were me and that 11x7 and 450, I'd use an ESC rated above 20amps....just to be on the safe side....seems like a little over kill for a slow gider with little agility....?

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Old 04-11-2013, 10:13 PM   #9
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Thanks Pizzano for your input. When I purchased the Slow Stick at my LHS, they were the ones who had suggested the NEO 450 w/ 11 X 7 Prop. I did tell them that I was looking for some Nice Vertical Lift. So from there is when the NEO 450, Prop, and ESC were chose from the guys at the Hobby Shop. They claim that they have built 8 of them very sucsefully using this Set-Up.

Second, Third, Fourth Opinions are Golden! That's why I posted this Set-Up. Would love to hear from other people's experiance!
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:13 AM   #10
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Well, that motor certainly is expensive at $40.00, while rated for 180 watts. My Turnigy 2217-20 motor is rated at 230 watts (pure fantasy) but operates perfectly within its capabilities at 200 watts/18 amps for $13.00 and change. I'm spinning an APC 11x4.7 SF propeller at just over 6000 rpm wide open.

Since your motor is less powerful, hooking up an APC 11x7 SF prop would overload the motor, making it draw most certainly over 20 amps. I could tell you exactly what to expect if your motor was in the Drive Calculator database of about 1750 different motors.

Might you get away with it? Yes, but why would you want to worry about it? Why would you want overheating, loss of control, smoke and a crash. I'd just buy a Plush 40A and call it good. $22.00 plus shipping. Or get the Super Brain for $5 or so more and have data logging.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:44 AM   #11
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I disagree.

much power up 450 slowfly pulls 16-17 amps with a 11x7 ape prop and will fly wot all day long just shy of 240 watts. would get a bigger speed control though. I run a 30amp on mine.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:02 AM   #12
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I was told this motor would not brake a sweat running the 11 X 7 Prop. I don't have a great understanding on Wattage Rating vs Amp Draw, but was told the 11 X 7 Prop would throw more air at a lower RPM. I should also mention that I purchased the NEO 450-880 Motor for $29....not $40.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:21 AM   #13
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If you frequent that LHS often.....

I'd ask (in a friendly, innocent, inquisitive manner) one of the LHS guys you dealt with to show you one of the 8 they built, with that combination, in flight......and then decide for yourself if seeing is believing.....if they are interested in keeping your business and promoting this combination, there should not be any issues and welcome your curiosity.

It just may be a case of misunderstanding or trying to move stock that's been sitting on the shelves collecting dust.....lol

I'm with Robbins on this one......something does not set well with their recommendations....in my second/third opinion....!

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Old 04-12-2013, 06:45 AM   #14
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Pizzano, what exactly would you change on my Set-Up & what exact Prop & ESC would you suggest I change to? Also, do you think that this motor was a Great choice? Setting the $29 I spent for it aside, do you think the NEO 450-880 is a good motor? I know you can purchase much cheaper motors, but I have only heard good things out the NEODYM.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:00 AM   #15
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http://www.headsuphobby.com/Power-Up...otor-A-536.htm

I still recommend a larger esc, but it will fly fine as is. these specs should be about identical to your motor.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:43 AM   #16
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250rman.......

Let me first preference what I suggest by saying....for every owner of a Slow Stick, there is a different set-up and power system combination....it really depends on ones expectations, pilot skills and personal preference.....

I've only built 4 of these, one with ailerons and the other's 3ch rudder only......All were built with beginners in mind...even mine.....lol

I've tried these combinations....all stock frame and wings, 9g servos, 20amp esc's brushed and brushless, stock dihedral:

1) GWS GWBL03008 1118kv outrunner 400/450 size brushless direct drive, 11.1v 1000mAh 30/40C battery, 10x5E APC, GWS EP1040, and Eflight 9x6 props

2) Stock GWS EPS 400D brushed/gear box, both 11.1v 1000mAh 30/40C and 7.4v 1600mAh 40C battery, 10x5E APC and GWS EP1040 props

3) E-545 Power Up 400 Sport Brushless, both 11.1v 1000mAh 30/40C and 7.4v 1600mAh 40C battery, 10x5E APC, 9x6 Eflight and GWS EP 1040 props

4) Dynam C2830-21 1200kv brushless, 11.1v 1800mAh 30C battery, GWS EP 1040 and Eflight 9x6 props

All of the four combos flew decent (plenty of lift and decent in-flight power)....mind you, I did not invent any of these combo's......I spent hours researching and asking friends questions!

That said, my favorite combo and the one I still prefer and recommend is #3 with the 10x5E APC, 7.4v 1600mAh, 400 Power Up outrunner. Here's why:

C/G is touchy on the Slow Stick and changes after every flight due to wing shift and servo action.....I've found that combo #3 is not as sensitive to in-flight C/G changes since the combo is relatively light and forgiving (I tend to set-up a little nose heavy to compensate for wing shift and wind)...and I get longer flight times (30min on average) than using the 3cell battery, with ample power and no ESC/motor overheating........I do glide 1/2 the time and seldom run past 3/4 throttle even on ground take-offs.......and the brushless 400 and APC prop are bullet proof!

I've flight trained 3 kids and 2 adults on that set-up...and even after all of the mishaps, combo #3 has come through every time.......

That's about it my friend......it's only my experience, other's here like Robbins, mclarkson, Glacier Girl, stevencooper...many more, will have different success stories as well.......!

You might take a look at another forum like rcgroups too.....lots of good stuff there as well.

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Old 04-12-2013, 08:09 AM   #17
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Thanks so much Pizzano, I appritiate you sharring your experiance with me.
Last question, I will most likely keep the motor seeing that I have $29 invested in it already, but will definitely replace the ESC with a 25A or Better, but what Prop would you suggest with my NEO 450-880 Motor?
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:23 AM   #18
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I have no experience with the lower (880kv) motors....I tend to prefer the higher KV due to using the lighter batteries like 7.4v, which will not work to well with your NEO.

Since the Slow Stick is light (even with your motor and 3cell), I'd try a 10x5 or 10x4 (I'm partial to APC E series since they are tough and very efficient) prop first....you should get plenty of thrust with a 10" and the lower pitch will keep the amp consumption down with a 30amp esc. She won't be a speed burner (the SS was not really designed to be a acro/3d plane) but you should have enough power to stay out of trouble and still get off the ground fairly quick............ Also, consider using a prop saver at first, until you get your landings down smooth....it will help keep the prop and motor shaft in better condition.

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by hayofstacks View Post
I disagree.

much power up 450 slowfly pulls 16-17 amps with a 11x7 ape prop and will fly wot all day long just shy of 240 watts. would get a bigger speed control though. I run a 30amp on mine.
hayofstacks, you can't disagree by substituting another motor and another prop.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 250rman View Post
Thanks so much Pizzano, I appritiate you sharring your experiance with me.
Last question, I will most likely keep the motor seeing that I have $29 invested in it already, but will definitely replace the ESC with a 25A or Better, but what Prop would you suggest with my NEO 450-880 Motor?
You're fine on the motor. 180 watts is plenty to get great performance out of the Slow Stick. I would go with at least a 30A ESC just for peace of mind. It will last a lot longer and be working well within its capabilities so it won't work up a sweat at all.

I think I'd buy an APC 11x7 SF and an APC 11x4.7 SF. I think you'll end up flying the 4.7" pitch after you see how much more thrust you get on the vertical line. You'll have about 35 mph pitch speed wide open and that also is a better fit than approx 50 mph for the 7" prop. Trading speed you don't need for thrust you crave is a good trade any day.

But try them both. I'm betting on the APC 11x4.7 SF as your go to prop when you're done testing. Keep us posted!

Oh, hate to disagree with pizzano, but 180 watts is way too high to get away with a prop saver. If you try it you'll be hating it. Bolt on the prop and land power off. You can cut just before touchdown at first and you won't break props. Later on you can land power on.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:30 PM   #21
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I've been flying my SS for near a year now with a CF-2822 motor (about $10 I think) with a 10X6 and I alternate between a 2s1500 or 3s1200 (when it's windy). My esc is a $7 30amp cheapie off ebay. It'll jump off the ground in it's own length on the 3s and maybe a 10' roll on the 2s. These things fly with almost anything on them. Put it together and see how it does. You can always make adjustments as you see fit. I would follow advice about checking current draw prior to flying though. No point in damaging a component.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:38 PM   #22
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Great advice from everyone.....thank you!! I will keep you posted with my results. I am off to go buy a Castle 35-40. Amp ESC.
Thanks guys.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
hayofstacks, you can't disagree by substituting another motor and another prop.
he has a 880kv 450 motor with identical specs. motor calc wouldnt be able to tell the difference and I doubt i could. even figuring on the 100watts per ounce rule, he has plenty of wiggle room at 2.75 ounces. and he is planning on running a 11x7:prop.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:40 AM   #24
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No worries running that low of KV on an 11in prop with 3s......these specs even show a 12x6 prop ok.
http://www.atlantahobby.com/Store/pc...dproduct=15190

With slow floaty plane like your SS, you will not be maxing out that motor much so I would start with an 11x5.5 Apc and check any heating along with flight times.
BTW...I am not a big fan of the wide blade slow flyer props, just my experience they tend to consume more amps than necessary compared to a reg electric prop.....your SS will fly great on both though
Good luck,
--Ray

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Old 04-13-2013, 05:47 AM   #25
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SF props are just that... slow fly.
They are great for low rpm and will be more efficient than the E series when used that way.

Start turning up the RPM and there is a point when the E series are more efficient.

Go low enough on rpm and the GWS version SF props are better than APC's...

The Slow Stick can be pushed to its limits without crossing into where the E is better than the SF. You can have a lot of fun with the slow sticks flying in the range where the GWS props are better.

The right prop for the right motor for the airplane... for the way you are flying it... will give the best results.
Change the way you fly it and the motor and prop that works best will change.
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