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Old 04-16-2013, 08:30 PM   #1
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Thumbs up Super KAOS Build - Electric

Hello All,

I'm starting to build a Super KAOS 60 - electric conversion. I purchased the kit from Eureka Aircraft http://eurekaaircraft.com/plan_kits/kaos.htm.

Back in my younger days I built and flew CL, but now that I'm retired I have gotten into RC. My hanger includes an Apprentice and a Pulse 25, both purchased as ARFs.

I choose the Super KAOS because I want to compete in some SPA events that are nearby and you need an SPA-legal plane to do that.

I'll be using an e-Flite Power 60 for this plane. I'll add entries as I make progress. I have started on the stabilizer and hope to have that complete today.

Steve P.
Now flying a Pulse XT25 and a Dirty Birdi
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:36 PM   #2
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You can save a fair amount of weight altering the structure for e-power. Saving weight in the airframe = you can carry more battery
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:51 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
You can save a fair amount of weight altering the structure for e-power. Saving weight in the airframe = you can carry more battery
Do you have any particular suggestions? I'm already planning on dropping the motor mounts and adding some light ply doublers to the nose. I figure I'll sand the fuselage some to save some weight there. Planning on using mostly CA for construction.

I was thinking about some lightening holes in the fuselage and the ply doublers.

Steve P.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:07 AM   #4
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The Big Kaos was my first nitro pattern trainer when i started to compete and a great flying plane .Good luck on your build. joe
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:32 AM   #5
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There are just so many places to save weight it gets difficult to pick where to start...

Lightening holes in the fuselage and its doublers.

Move the firewall forward so you don't need stand-offs for the motor (and can move the battery further forward if needed for CG)

Lightening holes in the thick sheet balsa tailplanes or change to built-up structure.

Lightening holes in the wing ribs (also helps with routing servo leads)

Dual mini digital servos for the ailerons instead of the single "standard size" saves weight due to hardware weight... the 2 lighter servos will add up close to (maybe slightly more than) the weight of the single

Proper use of yellow wood glue for most of the assembly is lighter and cheaper than CA and is more resistant to glue joint failure.

No need to do any of the fuelproofing...

You can save weight with covering choice but that means a covering that is punctured more easily.

I'd have to DL the plans and start drawing where the holes can go.... No time for that for quite a while.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
There are just so many places to save weight it gets difficult to pick where to start...

...
Thanks for the suggestions. One thing I was giving serious consideration to was moving bulkhead 1 forward so I did not need the standoffs and had more battery room. I'll think about holes in the sold balsa elevator and fin, but i'm concerned I might be nose heavy already based on calculations.

I'm currently planning on using HiTec 255 or 255MG servos all around.

Thanks and take care

Steve P.
Now flying a Pulse XT25 and a Dirty Birdi
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:11 PM   #7
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You can always move the battery back... Noseheavy is the easiest thing to correct in electric power.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:49 PM   #8
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Hi Steve!

I've looked at the Eureka Aircraft web site before and never had quite enough info to decided wether or not to purchase a kit from them... So a couple of general questions... Which kit did you get?? What type of wings are you building? (I think they have foam or built up balsa) Overall impressions of the wood and general quality. Is there any hardware at all included?? Landing gear??... Maybe just a picture of the kit contents would be good.

I have always liked the looks and flight characteristics of the old pattern planes. Building some of their kits is on my todo someday.... Looking forward to your build!

Steve

Growing the fleet!
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stevephoon View Post
Hi Steve!

I've looked at the Eureka Aircraft web site before and never had quite enough info to decided wether or not to purchase a kit from them...
I purchased the Super KAOS 60 - full kit not short, balsa wing. I also purchased a set of plans. The kit itself is a box of cut balsa and other wood; there are no other parts: LG, etc. My only critique so far is the set of plans was reproduced slightly over sized, so any measurements taken from the plans must be corrected.

So far I am pleased with what I have found. I have two different set of "directions" for building the plane. I can provide these to you if you decide to get this. Note, I am building this as electric.

Steve P.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
Hello All,

I'm starting to build a Super KAOS 60 - electric conversion. I purchased the kit from Eureka Aircraft http://eurekaaircraft.com/plan_kits/kaos.htm.

Back in my younger days I built and flew CL, but now that I'm retired I have gotten into RC. My hanger includes an Apprentice and a Pulse 25, both purchased as ARFs.

I choose the Super KAOS because I want to compete in some SPA events that are nearby and you need an SPA-legal plane to do that.

I'll be using an e-Flite Power 60 for this plane. I'll add entries as I make progress. I have started on the stabilizer and hope to have that complete today.
Do you all ready have the Power 60 motor? If not, consider the $$$$ Hacker A50-12S motor for about $15 more. I've got three of them.

These motors are similar, but the critical winding resistance of the Hacker is 1/4 that of the E-Flite motor. Makes for better efficiency.

As for overall weight, with the modern electric power systems, its not hard to match or even exceed the performance of a model with glow power, as compared to electrifying it. I just bolt in the electric stuff, without modifying the airplane, and go fly.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I purchased the Super KAOS 60 - full kit not short, balsa wing. I also purchased a set of plans. The kit itself is a box of cut balsa and other wood; there are no other parts: LG, etc. My only critique so far is the set of plans was reproduced slightly over sized, so any measurements taken from the plans must be corrected.

So far I am pleased with what I have found. I have two different set of "directions" for building the plane. I can provide these to you if you decide to get this. Note, I am building this as electric.
Should be a nice build Skipper .


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Old 04-17-2013, 09:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Do you all ready have the Power 60 motor? ...
Yep, already have the motor, ESC and RX. I have had good luck with e-Flite stuff so far, so I'm sticking with it.

Steve P.
Now flying a Pulse XT25 and a Dirty Birdi
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #13
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Thumbs up Tail Almost Done

I have the tail pieces complete just waiting for hinges so I can cut the slots. Then I'll shape the LE of the rudder and elevator to the required "V" shape. So far so good.

Looks like I start the wings today.

Steve P.
Now flying a Pulse XT25 and a Dirty Birdi
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I have the tail pieces complete just waiting for hinges so I can cut the slots. Then I'll shape the LE of the rudder and elevator to the required "V" shape. So far so good.

Looks like I start the wings today.
Wow, you're really going.

I had a Kaos, Super Kaos, and Dirty Bridy back in the day, great fliers. I just picked up a well done kit built 40 Kaos at a club auction and electrified it. I love the way with a electric you can dial in just the right amount of power by changing the prop. I started with a 11x7, but it had too much vertical, (I want it to fly like they did in the 70's), so I went to a 10x7 and that was like I had a super powerful 40 in it. I finally fly it with a 9x6 which makes it fly like a regular 40 powered Kaos of the 70's.

I'd build it stock, with two exceptions:
1. I'd make the top of the tank compartment removeable so you can change batteries easily.
2. I'd make the hole in the bulkhead above the LE as large as possible, or at least know what size battery I was going to be using and then make sure it fits through the hole.


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Old 04-18-2013, 03:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by soarrich View Post
Wow, you're really going.

...
1. I'd make the top of the tank compartment removable so you can change batteries easily.
2. I'd make the hole in the bulkhead above the LE as large as possible, or at least know what size battery I was going to be using and then make sure it fits through the hole.
I'm still looking at moving bulkhead #1 forward so I don't need standoffs for the motor. Once I decide what is happening there I'll determine how big the top hatch needs to be . Unfortunately the hatch will need to extend to the back of the canopy, which is further than actually needed.

Steve P.
Now flying a Pulse XT25 and a Dirty Birdi
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I'm still looking at moving bulkhead #1 forward so I don't need standoffs for the motor.
My Kaos only needed a 1/2" ply plate behind the motor to put it in the proper place, why redesign the plane when a simple spacer would do the job?

Once I decide what is happening there I'll determine how big the top hatch needs to be . Unfortunately the hatch will need to extend to the back of the canopy, which is further than actually needed.
Mine is a 40, yours is a 60, but the proportions are the same, a hatch from the firewall to the first bulkhead should be sufficient. Mine on the top, but yours being a SUPER Kaos one on the bottom might look nicer, though I would go with the top hatch just for ease of changing batteries.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:48 PM   #17
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I dont like tube standoffs so either i move my firewall or i build a simple box extention to my firewall and key it in . joe
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:03 PM   #18
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It really depends on motor choice as to how much standoff the motor would need vs the original firewall position.

relatively long motors won't need much and then it is not worth the effort to move teh firewall.
I tend to get short, fat outrunners that allow moving the firewall almost half the distance from the original location toward the spinner.

I like larger dia lower RPM props... Best for vertical. I'm rarely looking for max speed.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:05 PM   #19
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I believe that I need standoffs that will be a little more than 1 inch long. I'm likley to move the bulkhead to provide more room for the battery. I'll decide that when I get to that point in the build.

Steve P.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:08 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I believe that I need standoffs that will be a little more than 1 inch long. I'm likley to move the bulkhead to provide more room for the battery. I'll decide that when I get to that point in the build.
Motor lenghs /shafts are all different and you will make it work . joe
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:56 AM   #21
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I'm on the way with a 50" span 'large scale model' based on the Jerry Yarrish 'CADKaos' drawing of Joe Bridi's 58" Kaos. Mine's for e-power from the start. Idle thoughts...

The rear fuselage / tail moment is l-o-n-g. This is making balancing 'fun'. As motors are lighter than engines, this will often be an issue with Kaos and similar era designs.

As mentioned by several folk above, I extended the fus sides to put the firewall immediately behind the motor.

Undercarriage. Okay, I take the blame - it's got a fuselage mounted main gear and is a taildragger. Have had three 'trikes' since starting in RC in 1979. What I'm using moves the majority of UC weight ahead of the CG and drops the weight of the wing mounted mains too.

Battery hatch. From the former at the wing TE to just ahead of the LE former, it is also the 'radio gear' hatch.

Added holes to the fus bottom sheet aft of the wing TE. Wish I'd built up the top decking rather than used a handy sheet of 1/4" balsa. May add the odd hole to the top.

Will use an OS 25 motor, 875Kv, and 4S LiPo 3300 to 3600mA. Prop selection to come soon, aim is for a smooth, high speed performance.

Idle thought - build that tailplane light!

There's a vast range of photos of the Kaos/Chaos models built over the years. Will be Monokote cribbing something typical.

Good luck with your Kaos 60

D
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:45 AM   #22
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Well tonight I have the basic frame of the right wing done: spars, ribs, LE, TE. I'll do sheeting tomorrow.

Steve P.
Now flying a Pulse XT25 and a Dirty Birdi
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:55 PM   #23
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Right wing sheeting on top is done. I have installed the landing gear blocks in the bottom and a paper tube for the servo wire. Today I work on the bottom sheeting. Then I can put that panel aside and start the left wing. I'm going to wait on the wing tip blocks for both wings until they are both done. I might be a little skimpy on wing tip blocks to save a little weight.

Steve P.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:31 PM   #24
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We need pics.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:01 PM   #25
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Some pictures of my progress.


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