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Sport Planes (Formerly I/C & Gas Conversion) Discuss I/C or Gas Conversions, Aerobatic Planes and Sport Aircraft

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Old 05-02-2013, 03:22 AM   #1
kyleservicetech
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Default Hanger 9 Twist 40 Electric Conversion

I just did the maiden flights on this model. Even in 15 MPH + winds, the maiden flights went very well, with take off runs of about 10 feet.

This model is designed for a 56 to 84 4 stroker engine. Here is how mine is set up.

Motor Hacker A40-10L with APC-E 14-7 prop
Battery 6S1P 2300 Mah A123 pack
Wingspan 48 inches

Area 747 sq in
Weight 80 oz
Amps 43.5
Watts 700
Watts/Lb 140

If built per plans, this model will be very tail heavy. I had to move the rudder servo to mid fuse to bring the cg within specs. The battery pack is flush against the back side of the firewall.

The model flew very well, with unlimited vertical. Roll rate is quite fast at 100% throw, I would up using 60% on all surfaces.

The attached photos show how the motor was mounted. Also, I'm not much of a fan of those all plastic clevis units with the plastic pin. The last photo shows how those metric plastic clevis units were modified with a 1/16 inch diameter cotter pin.

Also, the top of the fuse was modified by filling it in, and covering with monokote.


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DennyV
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:57 AM   #2
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you got info on a a123
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:24 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by BigO View Post
you got info on a a123
Yup
Been using them for five years now, these batteries hold their capacity, and voltage under load for many hundreds of cycles. Finally retired a 5 year old 6S2P pack after some 400 flights. That battery still has 90% of original capacity, and about 95% of its original voltage at 60 Amps.

They are about 35% more weight than an equivalent Lipo battery, and you need a 4 cell A123 to match a 3 cell Lipo. The 4 cell A123 has a bit more output than the 3 cell Lipo on the same motor and prop.

They have zero fire hazard, and I've been building them permanently inside my models.

Unfortunately, if you want to use them, buying ready to go packs is expensive. And the individual A123's are now $12 each. I've got wiring diagrams if you're interested.

Take a look:
http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/serv...1-dsh-A/Detail

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Old 05-03-2013, 07:44 PM   #4
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Good job on the conversion, it's obviously one of the short-nosed oilybird species

Quick questions on A123 cells - do they solder up easily? Any special flux/solder needed? (guess who dates back to home-made NiCad packs? Still have my hammerhead bit for making end to end soldered packs!)

I've flown some 3S A123 packs in my Lazy Bee - on account of its the only model I have that they fit in - and have idly contemplated dropping LiPo for A123 on many occasions. The ones I have, I charge with my 'Daptor' and ancient FMA Direct charger with no problems.

Here's to the Twist being in your hangar for a long while. Just noticed your club website - should have paid attention and come out for a day, got some photos etc. Am not too south of you, in some big town named after a local type of wild onion, apparently However, a sudden need to move house a wee distance intervenes...

D
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
Good job on the conversion, it's obviously one of the short-nosed oilybird species

Quick questions on A123 cells - do they solder up easily? Any special flux/solder needed? (guess who dates back to home-made NiCad packs? Still have my hammerhead bit for making end to end soldered packs!)

I've flown some 3S A123 packs in my Lazy Bee - on account of its the only model I have that they fit in - and have idly contemplated dropping LiPo for A123 on many occasions. The ones I have, I charge with my 'Daptor' and ancient FMA Direct charger with no problems.

Here's to the Twist being in your hangar for a long while. Just noticed your club website - should have paid attention and come out for a day, got some photos etc. Am not too south of you, in some big town named after a local type of wild onion, apparently However, a sudden need to move house a wee distance intervenes...

D
Yup, if you buy these A123's directly from www.voltmanbatteries.com, they ship with spot welded tabs that are very easy to solder. Since you are dealing with heavy gauge wire, it would be wise to have access to a heavy duty soldering iron. I've got a 40 watt temperature regulated soldering iron, and it is to small. My big soldering iron is a 100 Watt temperature controlled soldering iron (NOT a soldering gun!) made by Weller, their part number W100P.

Take a look:
http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/serv...1-dsh-A/Detail

If you are nearby, stop in our club flying field. This Sunday looks good, and if the weather holds, there will be 15-20 people there. The location of our field is in our website.

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:48 AM   #6
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Ah! Spot welded tabs - good idea. My two 3S A123 packs are the remains of a 6S pack I tried after my last 3000mA NiMh pack died back in my Four Star 40 days. Which must say lots about how long A123 can last.

However, after putting the pad on the market Saturday AM, it was pretty much sold bar a Sunday bidding war (we hope!), so any messing with model aircraft is going to be heavily delayed. I may well still try sneaking up to visit with you folk if a nice sunday occurs and Spousal Unit can be peeled off the proverbial housemoving wall. It's only forty-odd miles, though half of it will be in Chicago Sunday shopping traffic. Say around three hours

I just optimistically packed my two part-built projects into a 5 ft long cardboard box I taped up from two plate boxes...

My big Weller is 80W, IIRC, and did fine soldering up packs from round cells.

D
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:27 AM   #7
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Default Hanger 9 Twist Flying Update

Just put on three more flights today, all went well. The canopy was also glued into place. That canopy had a very noticeable effect on the elevator trim.

All was not so well last Wednesday. The model was flown in 15 MPH winds, with gusts at 20 MPH, per our clubs wind anemometer. After landing, that 20 MPH gust picked up the model, and flipped it end over end for about 20 feet.

Only damage was to the Hacker 40 motor shaft. It got bent 15/1000 as measured with a dial indicator. There was zero damage to the model, guess it was lucky.

The shaft was pulled, and was bent back straight on my lathe, with a hammer and the dial indicator.

Three new shafts are on order from Hacker, they indicate they boxed it for shipment last Friday.

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Old 05-06-2013, 04:17 PM   #8
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Ah! Chicago area winds. Something I won't miss when we move back east.

Good to hear she survived those post-landing acrobatics on the ground. It's a neat looking model. I've done several low AR, short coupled sports designs over the years and they do just fine. Another plus is that they fit in the car easily- my 'large scale' Kaos electrocution has a fuselage that goes on for miles aft of the wing and will be a pain to transport.

Looks like you made yourself a good model here.

D
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:44 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
Ah! Chicago area winds. Something I won't miss when we move back east.

Good to hear she survived those post-landing acrobatics on the ground. It's a neat looking model. I've done several low AR, short coupled sports designs over the years and they do just fine. Another plus is that they fit in the car easily- my 'large scale' Kaos electrocution has a fuselage that goes on for miles aft of the wing and will be a pain to transport.

Looks like you made yourself a good model here.

D
Yup, that Twist is a keeper.

As for moving back East, hope its not New York City! Last time there on business, I made it through an entire week without someone laying on their car horn behind me.

And, some character hit his horn just as I pulled into the rental car return.

The guys I had in my circuit breaker classes were driving an average of two hours to work and back, each day. It got their attention when I told them I walked to work, and made it to work in 6 minutes.

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Old 05-07-2013, 05:19 PM   #10
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When we lived just outside of DC, in Maryland, my wife's 'record' to drive the 15 miles to work was just over two hours. We reckoned at one point, it was quicker to ride bikes to her office than drive.

Public transport - it's DC right, forget about it. At least Chicago has decent public transport that can get you around. though one trip earlier this year did include being preached at by some woman on a ten minute bus ride to downtown - she was rabbiting on when I got on the bus, still going when I got off.

Been to NY a couple of times. Why do people live there? Especially rich people, who could easily afford to live somewhere nice. I grew up not far from the original 'York' in England, having that mess of 'Nooo Yoik' named for the earlier version is almost upsetting .

Can't beat a good solid flier like your 'Twist'. You have to have at least one reliable no-fuss model that you can take out and fly the heck out of regardless of the weather, etc.

D
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
Been to NY a couple of times. Why do people live there? Especially rich people, who could easily afford to live somewhere nice. I grew up not far from the original 'York' in England, having that mess of 'Nooo Yoik' named for the earlier version is almost upsetting .

Can't beat a good solid flier like your 'Twist'. You have to have at least one reliable no-fuss model that you can take out and fly the heck out of regardless of the weather, etc.

D
Yup
Before retiring, I traveled all over New York, New York state, and most of the North East part of the USA. And all but two of the states in the USA. Makes one appreciate SE Wisconsin, with all its issues. (Flagstaff AZ was nice! Hawaii was interesting, you can drive all around Oahu in a couple of hours. And going anywhere else is going to be $$$$ )

That Hanger 9 Twist is getting more and more fun to fly. Put four more flights on it in the past day or two.

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Old 05-12-2013, 10:30 PM   #12
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I have one of the early ones with the yellow and purple covering. One of my take to the field, finger loosener planes. Running a Himax 5018 motor6 cell pack on a 13-8 prop. It is a tough plane.

Gord.

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Old 05-15-2013, 03:31 AM   #13
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Default Hanger 9 Twist Flying Update

The new Hacker shafts showed up, and have been installed. Note that extra allen screws were ordered and used to secure the new shafts. (If you replace these shafts I highly recommend that the allen screws also be replaced.)

This helped relieve some of the vibrations caused by the spinner up front. Even a new spinner had the same problems. It appears that the motor/spinner/prop hit a resonant frequency in a narrow RPM band, just below full power.

So, an 1/8 inch aluminum plate was cut to fit the front of the aluminum "U" shaped motor mount. This plate was sandwiched over the motor mount screws, and the outside edges were bolted to the aluminum "U" motor mount. That 1/8 inch thick plate eliminated the vibration.

The model now has 16 flights on it, and each flight is getting better and better.

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Old 05-15-2013, 08:50 PM   #14
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Never had much luck with glow style spinners on electrics. A pain, as they can make a model look much neater around the nasal regions. Your motor mount is a neat widget - front mounting can be more complex than rear, but somehow looks better. Good to hear that your simple 'fix' sorted the vibration issues too.

D
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