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Old 06-29-2013, 07:39 PM   #1
solentlife
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Default Alternative ways to accomplish build items ...

OK ... I'm starting a thread where we can list alternatives to plan / established ways of building.

My first item is wire joints such as cabanes and struts .. many plans call for binding with fuse wire and then soldering up. This is great initially but often after a while - one wire starts to loosen and able to turn in this hard solder/wire 'tube' created. You try heating and resetting the solder ... but it's a lost cause.
So what alternative ?

I use carpet thread ... this is available in many colours and it's strength is immense considering it's gauge. Try breaking it with hands and it will 'garrot' your skin !

I have two ways with this but both rely on same ... Clamp the wires in position and then bind tightly as you can with the thread ... making sure that standing end of thread is laid along joint so it exits where thread will finish and long enough to work with. Now pass thread between wires and back to start .. between wires and back to finish ... then tie of with standing end. The joint should be reasonably solid and stiff now ... but one last job : Soak the thread with CA .. so it becomes a hard joint glued to the wire. The second way is to use epoxy - but this needs wire to be dipped in it first before binding and is messy !!.. with epoxy smeared over at finish.

The above is good enough for medium large models in fact ... I use it on a 60 powered glow biplane ...

Motor mounts (electric) ... we all see the plywood text on plans ... but a good substitute and light - is floor laminate. Don't throw away those offcuts of parqee or laminate after covering your floor. Keep them for fairings, struts, and Motor Mounts ... For light to smallish medium sized mounts - they are excellent. easy to cut ... usually 3mm maybe 4mm thick.

Broken ribs in a wing ? Short on balsa ... what's problem if you have foam sheet such as 6mm depron or 5mm floor insulation ? Cut out part-ribs in this and then use as doubler to the broken rib ... glueing back the balsa bits as well. That will be as strong or better than original and with literally no weight.

Anyone else with alternatives ?

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:56 PM   #2
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If you clean the wire properly before soldering and then get the joint hot enough, it does not come loose even after many years. The problem is not inherent in the joint being soldered. Its in soldering technique.

My primary alternative to soldering is welding. This takes care when doing 1/16 to 1/4 wire. Weld the joint, then while its still glowing red drop in motor oil to temper.
Water cools it too fast and makes it brittle.
If you don't drop it in oil it cools too slow and will bend too easily.

Brazing is also a possibility... Essentially soldering with brass. Its stronger than lead-tin or even silver-solder. Still hot enough that you have to re-temper the music wire.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:00 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
If you clean the wire properly before soldering and then get the joint hot enough, it does not come loose even after many years. The problem is not inherent in the joint being soldered. Its in soldering technique.

My primary alternative to soldering is welding. This takes care when doing 1/16 to 1/4 wire. Weld the joint, then while its still glowing red drop in motor oil to temper.
Water cools it too fast and makes it brittle.
If you don't drop it in oil it cools too slow and will bend too easily.

Brazing is also a possibility... Essentially soldering with brass. Its stronger than lead-tin or even silver-solder. Still hot enough that you have to re-temper the music wire.
Yeah
I've got a wire landing gear on an 8 pound model that is now 11 years old, with over a 1000 flights on it. The LG is 5/32 inch thick, and the LG joints are wrapped with close wound #26 copper wire. Everything was cleaned first, then soldered up with acid core solder. Then cleaned off with a good cleaning solution.

After those 1000 flights, it is still strong as brand new.

Also got silver solder, and brazing equipment. Brazing would be by far the strongest, but you need to heat everything red hot to do it. And don't know what that would do to the music wire.

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Old 06-30-2013, 01:25 AM   #4
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Red hot detempers the music wire... thus dunking in motor oil.

If you let it cool in air you can often just bend it like soft aluminum.

You can also make use of this when bending. Heat to cherry red... make the bend. Reheat if needed and dunk in motor oil. You can make bends that are impossible with cold music wire.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:26 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
If you clean the wire properly before soldering and then get the joint hot enough, it does not come loose even after many years. The problem is not inherent in the joint being soldered. Its in soldering technique.

My primary alternative to soldering is welding. This takes care when doing 1/16 to 1/4 wire. Weld the joint, then while its still glowing red drop in motor oil to temper.
Water cools it too fast and makes it brittle.
If you don't drop it in oil it cools too slow and will bend too easily.

Brazing is also a possibility... Essentially soldering with brass. Its stronger than lead-tin or even silver-solder. Still hot enough that you have to re-temper the music wire.
I agree to a certain extent about soldering .... but I've seen too many do as I describe ...
The beauty of the thread and CA / Epoxy method is so simple and anyone even those who cannot solder can do it. If it does work free - less likely actually ... it's easy to strip away with a model knife and redo. No solder bumps / bits to file of etc.

I tried welding legs on my 60 powered WOT4 .... the weld made the wire just at start of joint weak by way of having that slight reduction of diameter ... lasted only a few hard landings and snapped. Nothing to do with temper ... it was that bit just before the weld. The weld was done by a local Welding Professional as I cannot weld at all.

Piano wire as we know is not a forgiving material !!

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:31 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
I agree to a certain extent about soldering .... but I've seen too many do as I describe ...
The beauty of the thread and CA / Epoxy method is so simple and anyone even those who cannot solder can do it. If it does work free - less likely actually ... it's easy to strip away with a model knife and redo. No solder bumps / bits to file of etc.

I tried welding legs on my 60 powered WOT4 .... the weld made the wire just at start of joint weak by way of having that slight reduction of diameter ... lasted only a few hard landings and snapped. Nothing to do with temper ... it was that bit just before the weld. The weld was done by a local Welding Professional as I cannot weld at all.

Piano wire as we know is not a forgiving material !!

Nigel
Don't know if this web site will open "Over There", but if it does, take a look:

This web site provides a lot of information about just about any type of metal you might use. And, in the USA, you can buy a three foot length of one foot diameter cast iron if you want! (That would weigh about 1200 pounds)

http://www.speedymetals.com/

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Old 06-30-2013, 01:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Don't know if this web site will open "Over There", but if it does, take a look:

This web site provides a lot of information about just about any type of metal you might use. And, in the USA, you can buy a three foot length of one foot diameter cast iron if you want!

http://www.speedymetals.com/
Denny .. I'm sitting in Corpus Christie Tx ... waiting to board a Helicopter !!

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:46 AM   #8
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Denny .. I'm sitting in Corpus Christie Tx ... waiting to board a Helicopter !!

Nigel
Hi Nigel

LOL, Have a good flight! Of all the traveling I did before retiring, a helicopter was not one of them. Had rides in just about every thing else though.

DennyV

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Old 06-30-2013, 01:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Hi Nigel

LOL, Have a good flight! Of all the traveling I did before retiring, a helicopter was not one of them. Had rides in just about every thing else though.

DennyV
Iran - Iraq conflict ... rode Bolkow 105's - now they are something else !! especially when you get ex military guys flying them ...(mercenary's)

Gulf War 1 ... various incl Black Hawk ...

During my Ship days on large tankers .. Sea Kings and other

Recently it's various sizes of Jet Ranger style ... not sure of designations...

I usually try to sit up front in the left seat and chat to pilot about the helo ... comparing with the models I fly ...

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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