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Old 07-14-2013, 07:08 AM   #1
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Default Prop/motor wobbles and vibrates at high trottle after crash

Any advice to this newbie on how to repair motor mount in the nose of my foamie?

The mounting plate is still in place in the nose, but because of a mild crash, the mount can move just a tiny bit in the nose. When I go above half throttle, the prop/motor vibrates up and down 2-3mm making a nasty sound as the spinner plate rubs against the nose

What would be a good way to repair this? I guess I have to cut the nose apart, reinforce somehow and glue it back together again.

Thank you very much
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:59 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Love2fly View Post
Any advice to this newbie on how to repair motor mount in the nose of my foamie?

The mounting plate is still in place in the nose, but because of a mild crash, the mount can move just a tiny bit in the nose. When I go above half throttle, the prop/motor vibrates up and down 2-3mm making a nasty sound as the spinner plate rubs against the nose

What would be a good way to repair this? I guess I have to cut the nose apart, reinforce somehow and glue it back together again.

Thank you very much
Hi And Welcome To Wattflyers You will need to make a few more post and after that you will be able to post Pics, if you can post a pic of your motor and mfg number, we can better advise you as what to do, there are a lot of motors out there and we need to know which one you have to point you in the right direction, Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 07-14-2013, 08:12 AM   #3
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on the motor mount to firewall, get some 5 min epoxy and reglue the motor mount back in place.dig out a little foam if you have to to get the glue to go where it needs to go.

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Old 07-14-2013, 08:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Hi And Welcome To Wattflyers You will need to make a few more post and after that you will be able to post Pics, if you can post a pic of your motor and mfg number, we can better advise you as what to do, there are a lot of motors out there and we need to know which one you have to point you in the right direction, Take care and have fun, Chellie

Hi Chellie, and thank you for the friendly welcome

My model is a Yuki glider model LS 8-18.

The motor is mounted with 4 philips screws on what looks to be an acrylic like plate, called motor mount by me

The plate/motor mount is "sandwiched" in the foam nose and glued in between each sandwich side. The folding prop is then mounted on the motor shaft via a collet adaptor type + spinner plate + nut.

When I take everything apart, I can move the motor mount a little back and forth in the bottom part of the plate (a little play when applying force). And I take it, it should be absolutely firm.

I would guess this kind of problem is normal to occur, when the beginner make a rough nose landing, where the nose takes some impact.

I have managed to straighten out the cockpit and reinforce the cockpit walls, but needs to get the motor solid in order to have a non vibrating prop.

Thanks, Tom!
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:09 AM   #5
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Tom,

It's normal to have a little give (when applying force) in the motor mount on most foam planes, that's due to the flexible nature of foam. Providing the mount isn't actually loose and 'rattling around' then it's most likely not an issue.
The problem is more likely to be a bent shaft or bent collet adapter. This is a very common problem after a crash. You can identify a bent shaft by turning the motor by hand and look for any run-out at the spinner or at the prop tip.

Only fix is to replace the bent parts.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:58 AM   #6
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I'd say there's about an 80% chance that it's a bent shaft.

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:08 AM   #7
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Interesting there are 2 versions of that power glider one with a 28mm can motor and one with a 35 mm can motor

http://www.hangarc.com/shop/product_...85&language=en

http://www.hangarc.com/shop/product_...86&language=en

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:19 AM   #8
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I think the best way to get to the motor would be to cut the foam at the center line of the motor then at the bottom half at the firewall, this section can then be glued back into place, i would use hot glue to replace the cut out foam section, that will allow you to remove it again just in case buy a new motor, they are cheap enough, its almost impossible to straighten a bent motor shaft, and very difficult to replace the motor shaft alone with out special tools and motor repair knowledge, turn the motor and check for a bent prop shaft, Hope that helps, Chellie

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Old 07-14-2013, 01:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Tom,

It's normal to have a little give (when applying force) in the motor mount on most foam planes, that's due to the flexible nature of foam. Providing the mount isn't actually loose and 'rattling around' then it's most likely not an issue.
The problem is more likely to be a bent shaft or bent collet adapter. This is a very common problem after a crash. You can identify a bent shaft by turning the motor by hand and look for any run-out at the spinner or at the prop tip.

Only fix is to replace the bent parts.
Great suggestion, thanks! Have not thought about that.

The shaft looks straight though and collet adaptor too.

I will do some cutting and gluing, now!
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
I think the best way to get to the motor would be to cut the foam at the center line of the motor then at the bottom half at the firewall, this section can then be glued back into place, i would use hot glue to replace the cut out foam section, that will allow you to remove it again just in case buy a new motor, they are cheap enough, its almost impossible to straighten a bent motor shaft, and very difficult to replace the motor shaft alone with out special tools and motor repair knowledge, turn the motor and check for a bent prop shaft, Hope that helps, Chellie
Thanks, I have the hobby knife ready now

You advice hot glue, and I am not familiar with this. How would you use hot glue in this case?

I have got some epoxy at hand, and I guess it is even stronger but probably a tad heavier, and as you say I cannot take it apart later on...

UHU por foam glue (also in the house) would maybe be too weak?

Nothing is bent, so at least I only have to do some surgery

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Love2fly View Post

Nothing is bent, so at least I only have to do some surgery
You think it's not bent. I'd give it 90% odds it is. Likely has a 3mm shaft which is not very strong.
0.003" bent and it will start to show up.....but you can't see it. 0.10 and it'll be quite noticeable when running but you can't see it unless you take it out and roll it on glass plate or similar. It just gets worse after that.
If you had enough force to break the motor mount, you likely bent the shaft. New fliers often don't comprehend the forces involved in a crash.

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Old 07-14-2013, 02:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by flydiver View Post
You think it's not bent. I'd give it 90% odds it is. Likely has a 3mm shaft which is not very strong.
+1.. you wont normally see the bend, the give away is that the props 'wobbles' as you rotate it and the motor vibrates when you run it.. The actual 'bend' is usually no more than a few thousandths of and inch, but that's all it takes. Often the shaft actually bends inside the motor housing where you cant see it anyway.

Of course if the motor mount has come loose that needs fixing but the way you describe it (needing force to flex the mount) then I'm not sure there is really anything wrong with it.

As noted above, on these small motors with skinny shafts in any type of crash it's VERY common to bend a shaft.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #13
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I've had the same thing recently occur on my FW-190. The plastic firewall attached to the foam became slightly dislodged. Factory glue job was not good. Enough to cause the motor to wiggle in the Y axis slightly. The motor itself is attached securely. Some 5 min epoxy and you're back in the game. I don't use hot glue on these type of fixes because of our high summer temps as it tends to degrade easily.

On the other hand , if you had a nose-in crash resulting in compression damage, watch that the alignment or thrust angle is correct. Make sure that the entire front end of the fuse didn't get pushed upwards. I've had that happen. Don't really want an up angle. If that's the case, you could try the hot towel treatment on the fuse to bring the foam back to shape.

Like others have pointed out, you can immediately tell if your motor shaft got bent. Whether it's a screw on type mount or collet type, you can try to straighten or just buy a new one. Most of the time, the motor shaft itself is okay if there's not much of a moment. If they do get bent, you can also replace these. In the US, Headsuprc has a good selecton of prop shafts and adaptors. Worse, case, you can replace the motor entirely and upgrade fairly cheaply.

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Old 07-14-2013, 03:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by flydiver View Post
You think it's not bent. I'd give it 90% odds it is. Likely has a 3mm shaft which is not very strong.
0.003" bent and it will start to show up.....but you can't see it. 0.10 and it'll be quite noticeable when running but you can't see it unless you take it out and roll it on glass plate or similar. It just gets worse after that.
If you had enough force to break the motor mount, you likely bent the shaft. New fliers often don't comprehend the forces involved in a crash.
Thank you.

My motor mount/firewall is not broken, but the foam in front/behind has been taking the impact. I realize the shaft could be bent, but it does not look and feel like that (run it slow with finger contact to feel for unevenness).

I will repair the nose as suggested, and if I get a wobbly prop with a stiff nose/mount you are right.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
I've had the same thing recently occur on my FW-190. The plastic firewall attached to the foam became slightly dislodged. Factory glue job was not good. Enough to cause the motor to wiggle in the Y axis slightly. The motor itself is attached securely. Some 5 min epoxy and you're back in the game. I don't use hot glue on these type of fixes because of our high summer temps as it tends to degrade easily.

On the other hand , if you had a nose-in crash resulting in compression damage, watch that the alignment or thrust angle is correct. Make sure that the entire front end of the fuse didn't get pushed upwards. I've had that happen. Don't really want an up angle. If that's the case, you could try the hot towel treatment on the fuse to bring the foam back to shape.

Like others have pointed out, you can immediately tell if your motor shaft got bent. Whether it's a screw on type mount or collet type, you can try to straighten or just buy a new one. Most of the time, the motor shaft itself is okay if there's not much of a moment. If they do get bent, you can also replace these. In the US, Headsuprc has a good selecton of prop shafts and adaptors. Worse, case, you can replace the motor entirely and upgrade fairly cheaply.

-Hawk
Thanks, nice to know I am not completely off track! I will use epoxy, as it is in the house, and watch you advice on alignment.

Thanks
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Love2fly View Post
Any advice to this newbie on how to repair motor mount in the nose of my foamie?

The mounting plate is still in place in the nose, but because of a mild crash, the mount can move just a tiny bit in the nose. When I go above half throttle, the prop/motor vibrates up and down 2-3mm making a nasty sound as the spinner plate rubs against the nose

What would be a good way to repair this? I guess I have to cut the nose apart, reinforce somehow and glue it back together again.

Thank you very much
Agreed, your motor's shaft is probably bent. I've been given several motors with bent shafts, and have tried to straighten them with a dial indicator, and my big lathe. Mostly a waste of time.

Take a run to your local hardware store, and pick up a piece of aluminum flat stock, perhaps 1/8 by 1/2 inch in size. Make certain that aluminum piece is ruler flat. Cut it down to about 10 inches or so, and drill a hole in the middle, same diameter as your motor shaft.

Then mount this piece of aluminum on your motor, and slowly rotate it with the blade tip passing close to a soda can or something as a reference. If anything is bent, it will be obvious.

As a caution though, DO NOT run the motor with this piece of aluminum! That aluminum might not be able to withstand the centrifugal forces involved, and could throw a blade. Also, that aluminum has a different gyroscopic effect as compared to a prop, with more weight at the tips. Don't ask!

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Old 07-15-2013, 12:19 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Love2fly View Post
Thanks, I have the hobby knife ready now

You advice hot glue, and I am not familiar with this. How would you use hot glue in this case?

I have got some epoxy at hand, and I guess it is even stronger but probably a tad heavier, and as you say I cannot take it apart later on...

UHU por foam glue (also in the house) would maybe be too weak?

Nothing is bent, so at least I only have to do some surgery

Thanks for the advice!

You can buy them every where craft stores etc. they heat up a stick of glue so its a liquid form, then squeeze the trigger to apply the hot glue, then quickly attach the piece and hold it for a min. untill the glue cools off.


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Old 07-15-2013, 01:48 AM   #18
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Warning: standard, cheap hot glue is not a reliable bond if you have weather that is too hot. If I put a model in my trunk and drive 15-20 minutes to the flying field in weather over 100 degrees, everything falls apart when I take it back out of the trunk.

Many if not most people use hot glue extensively in their planes, so it definitely works for many, but it does not work for me.

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Old 07-15-2013, 05:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Warning: standard, cheap hot glue is not a reliable bond if you have weather that is too hot. If I put a model in my trunk and drive 15-20 minutes to the flying field in weather over 100 degrees, everything falls apart when I take it back out of the trunk.

Many if not most people use hot glue extensively in their planes, so it definitely works for many, but it does not work for me.
Agreed:
Just a note here, that hot glue is available in two temperature ranges. Most of it is the hi-temp stuff that melts at around 300 F or so. But the low temperature stuff for hobby and crafts work is also out there. I would not use the low-temp for any model aircraft use.

Come to think of it, I also don't use the hi-temp stuff in any of my models either.

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Old 07-15-2013, 11:10 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Agreed, your motor's shaft is probably bent. I've been given several motors with bent shafts, and have tried to straighten them with a dial indicator, and my big lathe. Mostly a waste of time.

Take a run to your local hardware store, and pick up a piece of aluminum flat stock, perhaps 1/8 by 1/2 inch in size. Make certain that aluminum piece is ruler flat. Cut it down to about 10 inches or so, and drill a hole in the middle, same diameter as your motor shaft.

Then mount this piece of aluminum on your motor, and slowly rotate it with the blade tip passing close to a soda can or something as a reference. If anything is bent, it will be obvious.

As a caution though, DO NOT run the motor with this piece of aluminum! That aluminum might not be able to withstand the centrifugal forces involved, and could throw a blade. Also, that aluminum has a different gyroscopic effect as compared to a prop, with more weight at the tips. Don't ask!
Thank for the advice and tips! I am waiting for the epoxy to harden my "nose job", then a simple test with the prop on will show.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:28 PM   #21
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New motor shafts are usually available for a dollar or two.

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Old 07-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #22
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Yuppie!!!

The nose now seems rock solid, a home test with carefully spinning up the prop without any wobbling or ugly sound as before, lead me to the flying field and voila: she flys again with a smooth running motor and prop. No bent motorshaft, at least no sign of this and all the bad symptoms are gone.

Thank you for all the kind advice and tips

PS was using epoxy as I wanted a really strong bond in this place.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:07 PM   #23
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good to hear that the fix proved to be simple
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:25 PM   #24
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Congrats on the fix and return to the flight line !
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Love2fly View Post
Yuppie!!!

The nose now seems rock solid, a home test with carefully spinning up the prop without any wobbling or ugly sound as before, lead me to the flying field and voila: she flys again with a smooth running motor and prop. No bent motorshaft, at least no sign of this and all the bad symptoms are gone.

Thank you for all the kind advice and tips

PS was using epoxy as I wanted a really strong bond in this place.
Dang I wish i could get that Lucky after a Crash LOL

Glad you got it Fixed up and Flying Take care and have fun, Chellie

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