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Old 08-20-2013, 12:14 AM   #1
dcwwcp
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Default Parkezone Archer flap modification...

My friend bought this little gem and said he really liked it. he brought it over and I flew it. He warned me that it comes in quick when landing. Indeed it does.
He asked me if adding flaps would be feasible. I looked it over and examined the real aircraft. A perfect candidate for flaps!

First though, it needed more channels available. So we put an AR600 in it. it slipped right in. re-bound it and set it up.

I knew we would be cutting servo pockets in the foam very close to the wing root, so I added a CF flat bar on end, as a spar to help support the wing. I cut a slit right against the fiberglass spar from gear plate to gear plate and glued the 6mm x .5mm CF spar in place. nice and strong. very little weight gain.

I used some simple cheap hxt500 servos because they are light. I placed them right behind the spar. I used a dremmel with a small router bit and taped off my area to cut. marked the bit as to how deep to go, and cut the pockets out. I used a snading stick to make a wire path to the top inside the fuse cavity. I purchased some t-28 trojan control rods at the local HS and used the aileron rods. shortened them and used some white control horns from an old ultrafly ultimate kit I'm just now building

I set it up to have full deflection be about 50. the end result was that the plane also needed 20% down elevator in the flap mix on his Dx6i.


Now the Archer comes in like it's on auto pilot! slow and smooth. it looks like the real deal coming in for a landing. the ailerons are still very responsive. you can even take-off using the flaps and it makes for a very scale take-off!!


Now the battery has to be moved as far forward as it can go to make the CG proper. In retrospect I would try to put the servos in front of the wing spar next time as it seems there is more room to move the battery back than to move it forward. but the plane flies great with the mod like it is.


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Old 08-20-2013, 01:18 AM   #2
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Great mod! I love the clean installation.

I love my little Archer. Nice relaxing long flight times.

Mike
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:57 AM   #3
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This is my plane it was cool without the flaps.. but with flaps.. its a sweetheart!
this should have come from factory with flaps.. it comes in hot.. and you cannot dead stick it... takes alot of concentration , but with flaps.. you have time to adjust and feel the plane out before landing.. you now have so much control , i have made some pretty impressive landings with this now.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by mperu09 View Post
...
this should have come from factory with flaps.. it comes in hot.. and you cannot dead stick it... takes alot of concentration , but with flaps.. you have time to adjust and feel the plane out before landing.. you now have so much control , i have made some pretty impressive landings with this now.
Sorry but I completely disagree. It is one of the best landing planes I have ever flown. It slows very well. I have found that you must have more elevator rates while landing and keep some power on.

You must NOT touch the nose wheel first! Just like full scale .

At any rate - I know some have said they have issues so you are not alone but I found with power, more elevator it is wonderful. In fact I set it on the mains with the nose wheel in the air until the elevator stops flying. It is a kick.

Mike
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:09 PM   #5
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By the sound of it (need for lots of elevator) it might be nose heavy. Nose heavy plane tend to land hot because you run out of elevator authority and cant flare properly. Factory recommended CG positions are often pretty nose heavy.

The flap conversion is really neatly done, excellent job.

Personally on a model of this size I'd not bother with flaps because the weight added usually outweighs the increased lift from the flaps, but maybe in this case it really does work. I'd have tried tweaking the CG back a bit first though.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #6
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Yep Jet is right - my battery as far back as it will go without hitting equipment.

It snaps like a crazy beast - no need for further back for me but CG is likely a factor on why I like mine too.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:37 PM   #7
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yeah I agree with the factory CG settings being a bit nose heavy. which definitely makes it come in hot. I tend to fly planes with the CG back farther now, as apposed to when I started flying. I like to be able to fly slow, and I like flipping it inverted every now and then without fighting it.

the flaps added a half ounce to the plane. and when we first hit them, the plane popped up drastically from the lift created. so I feel it works on this plane.
It comes in super slow now. you would like it if you like scale landings, it looks cool with the flaps down.

I should get some video of a landing or two and post it.

I don't think it's necessary for this plane, butI think it is a nice addition and puts a big smile on mperu09's face when he lands
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:21 PM   #8
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I have to disagree, I think was very necessary for this plane, not to mention, the real plane had flaps, so now it looks even more to scale. Why have to come in with power applied and a hot quick land when you DONT have to? I personally like to be able to come in nice and slow for my landings, much like the Pitts or SE5 nice and easy.. And If i get a WWII plane like a BF190 or P51 I will make sure to have flaps on it as well. I guess you would have to be there and see this thing land with flaps to understand and appreciate the work DCWWCP put into it. The 1/2 once did not hurt this plane in weight, In fact i had to put the battery forward, not back to get the CG right.. I can still Loop , Immelmann, Barrel Roll..and even stall turn with ease. this is a really a small passenger puddle jumper not a fighter or a 3D stunt, so for scale fly and just tooling around its wonderful and you really don't know what your missing until you actually do have flaps on this thing.. It made a WORLD of difference in landings period.
Hell next will probably be some kind of blinking nav lights and/or landing lights, just to scale it up more
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mperu09 View Post
I have to disagree, I think was very necessary for this plane, not to mention, the real plane had flaps, so now it looks even more to scale.
Good thing we all get a choice. It is more scale no question.

Originally Posted by mperu09 View Post
Why have to come in with power applied and a hot quick land when you DONT have to? I personally like to be able to come in nice and slow for my landings, much like the Pitts or SE5 nice and easy.
Wow I hope I never ever fly with you on a full scale! The only planes I land with ZERO power are my gliders. Power is what controls descent - right? (trust me it is... )

I am going to offer you some of my observations from flying (both full scale and RC). Few airplanes land well with no power. I am amazed how many pull off all power and then they complain about their landings!

Here is another thing to try - you can actually land SLOWER with the prop under power (spinning rather than windmilling). This creates a drag from the disk of the prop. Try it - you will be amazed! Adding power does not have to add speed - there is a balance.

Originally Posted by mperu09 View Post
And If i get a WWII plane like a BF190 or P51 I will make sure to have flaps on it as well.
Flaps are fun - I have them on some birds and not others. Sometimes they are simply not needed due to the very light weights of our models. The full scale planes need them for drag and increased lift. Our models generally perform well without them. But, no question they are fun!

I sure hope you learn how to apply power though the added drag of flaps it is SUPER important to have proper speed. They stall with the flaps down trust me!

Originally Posted by mperu09 View Post
...In fact i had to put the battery forward, not back to get the CG right..
I promise you will have MUCH better results with the battery back a bit. I like a rearward CG but my battery touches the receiver. I would have it back a bit more but it's not worth moving the RX.

This helps it slow a great deal better too.

Originally Posted by mperu09 View Post
I can still Loop , Immelmann, Barrel Roll..and even stall turn with ease. this is a really a small passenger puddle jumper not a fighter or a 3D stunt, so for scale fly and just tooling around its wonderful ....
I agree it is a nice touch a go plane - not a strong acrobatic performer. Nowhere near 3D.

I love holding mine with the mains touching keeping the nose wheel from touching down and going nearly the length of the runway. With just the right amount of power and a touch higher elevator rates it does this amazingly well (just like the Trojan!).

Originally Posted by mperu09 View Post
...you really don't know what your missing until you actually do have flaps on this thing.. It made a WORLD of difference in landings period.
It would be nice to try. Maybe I will someday.

Give my tips a try - I think you might be surprised by the performance gain just with those few tweaks.

Mike
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:33 AM   #10
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Default Seriously!!!!!

DUDE! IM SORRY ARE YOU PAYING ME? WHO ARE YOU? AND WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU TO BASH ME or MY FLAPS? WHY IS IT SOMEONE HAS ALWAYS GOT SOMETHING NEGATIVE TO SAY ABOUT SOMEONES POSITVE EXPERIENCE!

Wow I hope I never ever fly with you on a full scale! The only planes I land with ZERO power are my gliders. Power is what controls descent - right? (trust me it is... )

-- WOW, Dont you worry, I don't fly with people with such negativity.

I am going to offer you some of my observations from flying (both full scale and RC). Few airplanes land well with no power. I am amazed how many pull off all power and then they complain about their landings!

-- You act like i never flown RC that it was first time.. Umm ya, i know that plane requires prop power on landing, I have done it. But it is my fastest landing plane.. I DONT LIKE THAT! I LIKE MY PLANE UNDER POWER ON SLOWER LANDING WITH MY FLAPS! period! I did not have flaps on my christen eagle and i landed that thing and stuck the landing several times i might add like i been doing it for years..

Here is another thing to try - you can actually land SLOWER with the prop under power (spinning rather than windmilling). This creates a drag from the disk of the prop. Try it - you will be amazed! Adding power does not have to add speed - there is a balance.

-- Yes i know this, you cannot dead stick this plane, it requires power to land properly and no it still lands fast, regardless.

Flaps are fun - I have them on some birds and not others. Sometimes they are simply not needed due to the very light weights of our models. The full scale planes need them for drag and increased lift. Our models generally perform well without them. But, no question they are fun!

I sure hope you learn how to apply power though the added drag of flaps it is SUPER important to have proper speed. They stall with the flaps down trust me!

-- Umm ya i landed the bird several times NICELY i might add with the flaps and added power.. BUT IT COMES IN MUCH SLOWER AS PREFERRED!
again, anyone that flys this with with flaps will appreciate it.
Tell ya what you fly your way! i will fly my way.
By the way! the take offs with flaps on.. IS AMAZING TOO!


I promise you will have MUCH better results with the battery back a bit. I like a rearward CG but my battery touches the receiver. I would have it back a bit more but it's not worth moving the RX.

-- and I promise you, I WONT! when i put the battery in the expected spot, the plane was absolutely uncontrollable , dcwwcp can vouch for that, he was there when we first initially tested it, in fact on the maiden of the flaps , the plan crashed, only to pop off the canopy and break a prop!.
as soon as we put a new prop on, MOVED THE BATTERY FORWARD.. YES I SAID FORWARD it flew much better and was able to trim it in. and since then flys perfectly.


This helps it slow a great deal better too.
-- No it wont


I agree it is a nice touch a go plane - not a strong acrobatic performer. Nowhere near 3D.

I love holding mine with the mains touching keeping the nose wheel from touching down and going nearly the length of the runway. With just the right amount of power and a touch higher elevator rates it does this amazingly well (just like the Trojan!).
--I am not landing on a runway.. im landing on a parking lot or a dirt baseball diamond I DONT WANT TO TAKE UP THE ENTIRE runway area to land.. hence the flaps, slower and shorter lands.. AND IF I HAD A 30-40 inch Trojan I would put flaps on it too.. I have the micro and fly it fine , again its a fast plan and fast landing


It would be nice to try. Maybe I will someday.

Give my tips a try - I think you might be surprised by the performance gain just with those few tweaks.

-- Mike
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:57 PM   #11
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Sorry to bump an old thread, but I have a couple questions!

I'm looking at doing this with my Archer, simply because flaps are cool-looking and I'm bored and have the parts laying around.

How did you bevel the flaps? Just an angled cut along the leading edge or did you round it?

How did you hinge the flaps? Just hinge tape along the top?

Again, apologies for bumping an old thread!
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:51 PM   #12
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Not a flap post, But an Archer post. Since this is the most recent.

Here's the Archer in cabin footage from two weekends ago.

http://youtu.be/KgeDVaVdqmc
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Old 09-28-2014, 06:01 PM   #13
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Default Archer Flap Mod.

Originally Posted by dcwwcp View Post
My friend bought this little gem and said he really liked it. he brought it over and I flew it. He warned me that it comes in quick when landing. Indeed it does.
He asked me if adding flaps would be feasible. I looked it over and examined the real aircraft. A perfect candidate for flaps!

First though, it needed more channels available. So we put an AR600 in it. it slipped right in. re-bound it and set it up.

I knew we would be cutting servo pockets in the foam very close to the wing root, so I added a CF flat bar on end, as a spar to help support the wing. I cut a slit right against the fiberglass spar from gear plate to gear plate and glued the 6mm x .5mm CF spar in place. nice and strong. very little weight gain.

I used some simple cheap hxt500 servos because they are light. I placed them right behind the spar. I used a dremmel with a small router bit and taped off my area to cut. marked the bit as to how deep to go, and cut the pockets out. I used a snading stick to make a wire path to the top inside the fuse cavity. I purchased some t-28 trojan control rods at the local HS and used the aileron rods. shortened them and used some white control horns from an old ultrafly ultimate kit I'm just now building

I set it up to have full deflection be about 50. the end result was that the plane also needed 20% down elevator in the flap mix on his Dx6i.


Now the Archer comes in like it's on auto pilot! slow and smooth. it looks like the real deal coming in for a landing. the ailerons are still very responsive. you can even take-off using the flaps and it makes for a very scale take-off!!


Now the battery has to be moved as far forward as it can go to make the CG proper. In retrospect I would try to put the servos in front of the wing spar next time as it seems there is more room to move the battery back than to move it forward. but the plane flies great with the mod like it is.

I read your mod and can't wait to try it out on mine. I was wondering how long the flaps are do if you have any more pictures i would appreciate them. I flew my plane for the first time yesterday and it does come in fast even when i cut the power a good distance from where i wanted to land.


Thanks for your help. Nick
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:46 PM   #14
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Nick welcome to Wattflyer - sadly the OP has not posted in about 4 years....

Mike
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:43 AM   #15
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Thanks for letting me know. I guess I can ask the guys from the hobby shop...
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:21 PM   #16
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You can ask here at Wattflyer - but on on threads is might be best to start your own new thread - How to setup flaps on Archer...

Just didn't want you waiting for photo's from someone no longer posting.

Mike
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