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3D Flying Discuss everything related to "3D" flying including construction, power setups and flying techniques

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Old 08-22-2013, 07:11 PM   #1
GunnyJeeves
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Default Mis-use of a 3 axis heli gyro in a 3d plane...

I was wondering if any of you guys had messed around with gyros on 3d or aerobatic planes.

I have.

I tried the OrangeRX gyro for planes, and it performed as I expected. The end result was an Extra 300 that flew suspiciously like a trainer. My UMX Beast has as3x and while it counters wind like nobody's business, it does not help at high alpha at all.

Fast forward to just a few min ago... Some dude slaps a Tarot ZYX gyro into a plane... End result is hands off / dead stick hovering. (And like a freakin boss too!).

Now I've set this gyro up on two 450 helis and a 250, and you can hover them hands off and maybe drift a bit, but not need input... You can further actually smack one with a stick in this state, (for the 450, make sure its a long stick) and it will maintain or immediately recover level...

What I have not tried is a FBL system gyro on a 3d plane, but I am officially darn curious now...

Here's the info:

Video -
Same gyro internals for $25 - http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-dy-2010-3gs-gyro.html

I'm gonna probably try this at some point... Just wanted to know if the difference between an "airplane gyro" and "using an fbl system as an airplane gyro" would yield the same results, or if the fbl system might be capable of some more super powered stuff....

The other option is that I just need to up the gain a lot on my normal airplane gyro. (As it stands, I'd use a gyro for a trainer, an fpv platform, or a helicopter... Not a 3d plane.)

Opinions and comments deeply desired
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:22 PM   #2
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I have several AS3X planes including the VisionAire. I LOVE it! I find that it really makes a difference and keeps the plane locked in.

I don't fine it makes 3D or aerobatic ships "fly like a trainer" however. The still do just what I ask and just feel locked in. Pretty impressive and this will make some otherwise un-flyable planes and bring them potential.

I wish my UM Stryker had it. It made the small UM beast go from OK to awesome.

Hobby King has orange RX's out now too made for airplanes.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._OrangeRX.html

Mike
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:37 PM   #3
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Update... Doing my research a bit yielded this tidbit I was missing before.

1. Mix the gyro rate INVERSLY with your throttle.
2. At high speeds, you want little to no correction. (Like a purely anti-wind device)
3. Near or below stall speed you need crazy mad gyro sensitivity and gain.

Still it makes sense what I was seeing now. You can probably set a gyro to auto hover, but you can't fly it like that horizontally or normally.

You really would need to set the sensitivity based on speed / inertia. I can see issues with sensitivity spikes while "coasting" through the air at a high speed...

I can also see fixing those with a curve too. (Zero throttle is 0 gain, and next point is 100 gain at 25%. Then maybe 35 gain at 50% and 5% at 75, with another 0 on the opposite end at 100%.)

Gaaaaaahhh! Just getting more curious...
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
I have several AS3X planes including the VisionAire. I LOVE it! I find that it really makes a difference and keeps the plane locked in.

I don't fine it makes 3D or aerobatic ships "fly like a trainer" however. The still do just what I ask and just feel locked in. Pretty impressive and this will make some otherwise un-flyable planes and bring them potential.

I wish my UM Stryker had it. It made the small UM beast go from OK to awesome.

Hobby King has orange RX's out now too made for airplanes.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._OrangeRX.html

Mike
Yeah, AS3X is not really "tunable" that I know of, and it is pretty docile but does absolutely GREAT at wind cancellation.

I think that's the rub. Too little and it does nothing, too much and it over corrects right into the ground.

Got a beast with as3x... Is the gyro sensitivity controllable?
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:45 PM   #5
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That's the gyro I put in the 300.

It is controllable, but I set it with a switch. Didn't curve it, or mix it.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by GunnyJeeves View Post
Yeah, AS3X is not really "tunable" that I know of, and it is pretty docile but does absolutely GREAT at wind cancellation.

I think that's the rub. Too little and it does nothing, too much and it over corrects right into the ground.

Got a beast with as3x... Is the gyro sensitivity controllable?
O not so young grasshopper. Actually....

AR635 receiver = fully configurable
UM receivers with built in = not

I wish the UM stuff was "on or off" selectable from the TX like the aR635 is. Obviously the 635 is not usable in the UM stuff.

But....mark my words I bet they will make the UM at least on/off switchable.

Mike
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:51 PM   #7
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I have a couple of the 3 axis OrangeRx gyros lying around. (I always tried to buy 2 or more of anything from hobbyking.... You all know why).

Here are some airframes I Can put those in:

55" Extra 330sc (Nitroplanes foamy..)
47" Dynam Sukohi SU26
Parkzone Extra 300 (lol) has one in it now.

None of those airframes suck (except maybe the PZ one) but they won't 3d well, and they can all over-thrust and climb straight up...

Extra 300 wing rocks like two kids are fighting in the cockpit.
Extra 330 is heavier than optimal... (Accelerates slowly for 3d)
Dynam is perfect weight / balance but is under propped.

Planes that I have that DO 3d well are scratch built profiles, the Inverza, Edge 540 qq, and an EPP Yak.

I will monkey with the gyro on the Extra when I get back. (Traveling again)

I will crank the sensitivity to 11 and try to fly it and see what happens.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:21 AM   #8
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I have 2 of the Orange rx's with 3 axis stabilizer built in. they are tunable, easy to set up and can be turned on and off in flight. You can adjust the amount of gain you want for each channel, with a adjustable pot, but you can not adjust gain in air.

One of my planes is a PT-19 450 ARF by E-flite, except now it is basically a AS3X plane.
My other plane with this unit is my Extreme Flight Edge 540T with a Hacker motor, with stabilizer turned off it flys like any Extreme Flight Plane and will do anything you ask, with the stabilizer turned on it will still do anything you want just smoother.

I was within minutes of buying an AR635 until I read in it's paper work, that it must use high speed high performance digital servos. Maybe that was said only to get the most out of it, but I'm not sure.

I will be ordering more of these Orange units. Cost difference is almost 5-1 so I can have many more of these.

Dave R, Proud PGR rider.
When you have flying skills like mine,
You become a master at repair.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
I have 2 of the Orange rx's with 3 axis stabilizer built in. they are tunable, easy to set up and can be turned on and off in flight. You can adjust the amount of gain you want for each channel, with a adjustable pot, but you can not adjust gain in air.

One of my planes is a PT-19 450 ARF by E-flite, except now it is basically a AS3X plane.
My other plane with this unit is my Extreme Flight Edge 540T with a Hacker motor, with stabilizer turned off it flys like any Extreme Flight Plane and will do anything you ask, with the stabilizer turned on it will still do anything you want just smoother.

I was within minutes of buying an AR635 until I read in it's paper work, that it must use high speed high performance digital servos. Maybe that was said only to get the most out of it, but I'm not sure.

I will be ordering more of these Orange units. Cost difference is almost 5-1 so I can have many more of these.
AWESOME! Exactly what I wanted to know.

Thanks!!!
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
I was within minutes of buying an AR635 until I read in it's paper work, that it must use high speed high performance digital servos. Maybe that was said only to get the most out of it, but I'm not sure.
I think it is due to constantly moving the servos. The analog may not tolerate that as well. Fast is important though so it takes full advantage of the corrections.

Mike
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:18 AM   #11
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I have a Visionaire where the digital elevator servo crapped out and I installed a HXT900 analog in its place. the thrust was about the same as the rudder servo beside it. Been working fine for quite a while and I'm not gentle with it. I ended up replacing the stock gyro/rcvr with an HK orange because of the Micky Mouse method of programming the AS3X. It works much better as I can fine tune the sensitivity now. Another HK rcvr/gyro is in a scratchbuilt VTO Pogo. Hovers much easier now especially in the vertical decent landing part. Another HK gyro in a Flash 3D. Works great on these planes with very high surface throws. I found I had to take out all of the expo as the gyro does pretty much the same operation. Great on a windy day too.

Gord.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:34 AM   #12
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Cool thanks!

Will fly my Edge a time or two without em, but will pop one in it and try it out.

Gotta find a prop for the old parkzone extra 300 so she'll hover without melting the ESC.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:31 AM   #13
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Yes there is a difference from say Standard Airplane 3 axis gyros and mis-used heli FBL systems / Heli Gyros.

Its called Heading Hold. It makes all the difference in the world!

In heading hold, it corrects until the change in axis is zero and holds it there. Standard 3 axis plane gyros burst in the opposite direction then re-center. Somehow if they can become heading hold, that's the difference.

Problem solved. I have 3 3D planes now with gyros and can tell the difference thanks to Real Flight. (The gyro is programmable on the Yak model to heading hold. Then it will do hands off hovering.)
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