Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Electric Ducted Fan Jets
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2013, 04:40 PM   #1
jccrall
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Normal, IL
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default EDF setup for control line model A-10 variant

I got a call from fellow model builder, Bill Gruby, about using EDF for powering an interesting model that he is building, It is a kind of spin off of an A-10 jet and he is now proposing to power it with two ducted fans. This A-10 variant is a bit of a monster at 74 ” span and Bill estimates coming in at 8 pounds or so. He also estimates speeds of 100 -200 mph!!

This is a project that he had started a few years ago and it got shelved. Anyway, he is now again moving forward with the A-10 build. Bill knows little about EDF power and he asked me to advise him on an electronic setup for this plane.

What makes this an interesting project is that it is going to be a control line model rather than an RC plane!! Control line models fly in a hemisphere on two lines which control the elevator – in this case 70 foot steel cables. EDF is virtually unknown in the control line branch of airplane modeling and I know nothing about it myself, so I am appealing to this forum to help him select a suitable power setup.

He tells me that he has ordered two ducted fans from Hobby King and now wants to know what

ESCs
&
Battery (he wants to run both fans off of a single battery)

that he can use for this plane.

Bill says that he also wants to be able to control the thrust from each ducted fan independently from the other. I think that a 2.4 Ghtz RC car transmitter and receiver can be used to control the thrust. What he needs is suggestions for the ESCs and the battery. He is looking for a 5 to 6 minute flight duration if under full power.

Here is a link to the EDFs he has ordered: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...00w_10s_.html"

Thanks for any suggestions that you may have.

John Cralley


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Gruby 90mm 12 Blade Alloy EDF 1000kv - 4200w (10s).jpg
Views:	93
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	170727  

John Cralley
Electric C/L
jccrall is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 05:23 PM   #2
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Hmmm, very interesting project, i used to fly a little control line'back in the day' but nothing quite on the scale of this project.

I think your friend is going to have to accept that some of his wish list is unachievable. Flight time and weight are probably the first victims of harsh reality.

The two fans combined draw 250 Amps so to supply them at full power for 6 minutes would need at least a 10s 25,000mAh battery.. that would be five of these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

Not only would those batteries cost close on $900 but they would be enormous and weigh 16lb for the batteries alone!

More realistically you would be limited to a maximum of two of those batteries for a total mAh capacity of 10,000. That would give you about two minutes flying flat out. Weight is still quite high at over 6lb for the batteries, which means you are at 10lb just for the power system before you even add an airframe. The final flying weight is going to be around 20lb, maybe more.

You would need two high voltage ESC's capable of at least 125Amps, preferably a bit more, such as: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ler_OPTO_.html

The practicality of flying a 20lb very high speed control line model needs to be considered. The control lines would need some form of anchoring to the ground as no human would be strong enough to hold the centripetal forces generated. A quick calc tells me that at 100mph the 'pull' on the lines would be about 190lb and if you could do 200mph then the pull would increase to 760lb
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 05:26 PM   #3
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,633
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,173 Times in 2,081 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (313)
Default

Here is a way to use differential thrust from the radio if you are going to have a second person controlling the thrust. at the bottom of the Page.

http://www.speedwing.net/minitwin_25...structions.pdf

No way will a person be able to run 2 - 90mm EDF from 1 Battery, the EDF you linked to Draws up wards of 125 AMPs Each, you will need to use 2 Battey Packs, the Wires on 1 of the Battery wont support 250 AMPs


best to make it a RC Plane

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 05:46 PM   #4
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,633
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,173 Times in 2,081 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (313)
Default

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Hmmm, very interesting project, i used to fly a little control line'back in the day' but nothing quite on the scale of this project.

I think your friend is going to have to accept that some of his wish list is unachievable. Flight time and weight are probably the first victims of harsh reality.

The two fans combined draw 250 Amps so to supply them at full power for 6 minutes would need at least a 10s 25,000mAh battery.. that would be five of these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

Not only would those batteries cost close on $900 but they would be enormous and weigh 16lb for the batteries alone!

More realistically you would be limited to a maximum of two of those batteries for a total mAh capacity of 10,000. That would give you about two minutes flying flat out. Weight is still quite high at over 6lb for the batteries, which means you are at 10lb just for the power system before you even add an airframe. The final flying weight is going to be around 20lb, maybe more.

You would need two high voltage ESC's capable of at least 125Amps, preferably a bit more, such as: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ler_OPTO_.html

The practicality of flying a 20lb very high speed control line model needs to be considered. The control lines would need some form of anchoring to the ground as no human would be strong enough to hold the centripetal forces generated. A quick calc tells me that at 100mph the 'pull' on the lines would be about 190lb and if you could do 200mph then the pull would increase to 760lb
+1 a CL Plane that weights that much will pull your arm off

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 06:03 PM   #5
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,187
Thanked 217 Times in 208 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Sorry... but you CAN run 2 X 90 mm off of one battery. Its been done. All it requires is an adequately sized battery. (2X the size for one fan)

It is preferred to Y the ESCs to one battery pack (or set of packs that are Y'd)

I run a single 5 inch (127mm) fan that pulls more power than a pair of 90's would pull. (12S LiPo, 105 amps peak) There are people that run twins with higher power fans than mine.

The battery limitation is... what the aircraft can carry. The Falcon 120 (nitroplanes) in my avatar carries 12S 4000 mah to 5000 mah.

I have a plane on the building board that will use a pair of 127mm fans and expected to carry packs in parallel-series for 12S 15,000 mah.

****************

Simple C/L A-10 with EDFs: Get an RX-ready A-10 and replace the servos with a control line bellcrank. Lock the rudders to pull the plane out. One of the (now easy to find) timers for operating an e-power on C/L will operate both ESCs.

The line drag will limit airspeed and reduce performance. So ensure you pick one that has a reputation for having abundant power. I converted several C/L planes to RC and generally reduced glow displacement by 40%. I still managed to flutter a couple apart because of the reduced drag allowing excess speed.

****************

C/L racing has developed ways to deal with the line pull issue. Flying the old pulse jet planes made it mandatory.

***********

What won't work is: 8 lbs and a pair of 90 mm fans even thinking of 100 mph.
fhhuber is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 06:47 PM   #6
Wildflyer
2014 President of PSSF
 
Wildflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lacey WA, 1 mile E of Mushroom Corner
Posts: 1,167
Thanked 132 Times in 128 Posts
Club: Puget Sound Silent Flyers -PSSF & Thurston County Miniature Aircraft Association - TCMAA
iTrader: (3)
Friends: (7)
Exclamation Don't do it.

Here is a different problem in regard to your project.

Years ago my dad built a semi scale C119 flying boxcar, it was powered by 2 McCoy 35's. The plane weighs 4.5lbs without motors, 2 unmuffled 35's are about 12 oz each. Total plane about 6 lbs, I still have the plane but not the McCoy's.

We realized these were way too powerful as soon as the plane left the ground after about a 3 foot long takeoff roll, it was going around like a dang combat plane.
Then we realized the loudest sound was coming from the pilot!, The guy was screaming so loud you could hear him over the sound of the 2 unmuffled motors. His body was leaned back at about a 45 degree angle, and he had both hands on the control handle
We were flying at a city park that had an area for control liners, there were several people watching this maiden flight.
People started running away from the circle in panic because they were certain the plane was going to leave the circle.

Somehow it held together and finally sort of crash landed, it had the glide slop of a large boulder.

What I want you to understand, is that our plane was much lighter and MUCH slower than what you are dreaming of. The pull of your plane would be insanely higher than ours was.

You would have to fly with at least 3/32 steel cable, from a post concreted in the ground to stand the pull at the center, and the planes bellcrank would have to be made of steel plate bolted to a welded aircraft frame. If you use 200 foot long lines it might not pull you into the next county.

I used to fly fast combat control line, my plane, a Spectrum, with the hottest motor I had, a Supertigre G21, .35 cu/in, 18000+ rpm, 135-140 mph. you have very little time to think, a full circle is just a few seconds.

PLEASE RETHINK this aircraft. You will hurt yourself of someone else.

We pulled the motors out of the C119 because we were scared of it.

Dave R, Proud PGR rider.
When you have flying skills like mine,
You become a master at repair.
Wildflyer is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 07:09 PM   #7
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

The 'pull' on the lines is exactly the problem I highlighted in the firt reply.

It's actually easy to calculate:

Centripetal force = mass x Velocity^2 / Radius

Centrepetal force in Newtons
Mass in Kg
Velocty in m/s
Radius in m

This is the formula I used to estimate the pull force in the first reply. And I agree, even with some form of restraint to anchor the lines it's potentially a very dangerous project.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 07:49 PM   #8
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,187
Thanked 217 Times in 208 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Fast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9-weExLUA8
At the end they are saying it did 185 (mph or kph? Australia)

Heavy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-5kX-4gRr8

Fast and heavy has been done.

*************
Couldn't get it to show thumbnail and still have the video play. I don't link videos much...
fhhuber is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 10:59 PM   #9
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

yeah, fast has been done, and heavy as been done, but fast AND heavy at the same time I'm not so sure. Also this project would be heavier than anything I've ever seen flown control line (the power system alone being 10lb plus).

The forces i calculated in my first reply are a reasonably close estimate, based on an assumed weight of around 20lb or so (which IMHO is realistic) and the desired speed range stated as the objective in the original post. In reality as you said previously, I don't think those sort of speeds would be achievable given a very draggy airframe such as the A-10. This is IMHO a good thing given the problems the weight and speed would cause.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:17 PM   #10
Old 'N Slow
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 74
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

.
Old 'N Slow is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:27 PM   #11
jccrall
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Normal, IL
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Thanks for the replies!! Sounds like he is really pushing the envelope here and he needs to dial it in a bit. For those of you that are familiar with control line this model is patterned off of a Ringmaster but scaled up and with a full body. I'll attach a drawing of the fuselage to give you an idea of its appearance.

Your suggestions seem to vary from "it cannot be done" to "well yes maybe if one does not want to fly very long or too fast"!! It also seems that weight is going to be a problem.

Concrete suggestions for ESCs and batteries that will power these EDFs??

Thanks and feel free to debate the best approach here.


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	A10 Revisited.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	38.8 KB
ID:	170730  

John Cralley
Electric C/L
jccrall is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:30 PM   #12
Old 'N Slow
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 74
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

.
Old 'N Slow is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 12:49 AM   #13
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,187
Thanked 217 Times in 208 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Ringmaster Jr used .15 to .19 and averaged 55 mph. Appx 5 sec per lap on 60 ft lines
I had a couple of those.

Ringmaster was .35 size and again about 55 to 65 was normal.

There is a method of using line tension to adjust rudder to control the tension. Not too hard to set up. You just have to ensure that you have rudder to the outside of the circle with tension = aircraft weight. Any less tension is wrong. With the rudder turning the plane into the circle when tension is getting high you never get to the extreme line pull as calculated above.

Its been done. It works.
fhhuber is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 01:15 AM   #14
Old 'N Slow
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 74
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

.
Old 'N Slow is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 01:56 AM   #15
Billy G
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

OK, time for me to check in here. Thank you all for the info. One thing not taken into account here is that both fans will be throttled independently. All up weight in the air is a projected 11 lbs. This is no where near 20 lbs. I have flown C/l that have weighed above 11 lbs. All were throttled. When the pull becomes too much, you throttle back.

At this point the decision has been made to go forward with the A10. I will check in here everyday to see what more you have to say. This is dark territory for me and I need all the help I can get. Pro or Con I would like to hear it all.

Building will commence as soon as the Fans arrive. Again, thank you.

"Billy G"
Billy G is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #16
quorneng
Super Contributor
 
quorneng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,246
Thanked 40 Times in 39 Posts
Club: A lone flyer!
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (7)
Default

Billy G
Did not Jet Plane Flyer give you the details?
According to the specification each fan draws 125A max on a 10 cell LiPo
To give 6 minutes (1/10hr) full power flying you will need a battery of 250A/10=25 Ah capacity.
So far its simple mathematics.
There is no 10 cell LiPo of this capacity so you would have to connect several packs together. Just look up the Hobby King site to find suitable packs. It will give you the cost and weight. $900 and 16 lbs total battery weight sounds about right.

Less duration and/or less power will reduce the battery weight accordingly.
quorneng is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #17
Billy G
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Full power will only be required to get the beast airborne. 50% will hold it in the air no problem. If I use 2 batteries I'll be OK but the duration of the flight will be unknown. Yes, we have decided to go with two batteries.

The throttle will be a Utronics 5 channel unit by Clancy Arnold.

I believe this is a viable project. We have been researching it for over 3 years now. We have left nothing to chance.

"Billy G"
Billy G is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 03:41 PM   #18
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Yes, sorry if I come accross negative, it's a bad trait of mine.. However the data in my first post was an honest attempt at answering the questions raised and was 100% factual based on your stated perameters and the hardware already purchased (the fans).

Weight of propulsion system alone (fans, ESC's and batteries) will be in the 10lb - 20lb range, depending on desired run time. A 10lb probulsion system will only give you about two minutes flat out. Based on my experience if you have a 10lb propulsion system weight then your all up flying weight will be around 20lb.

To get it much lighter means you need to compromise of the specification but with those fans at full power you cant go much smaller on battery size due to the need to supply 250 Amps without spontanious combustion!
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 04:05 PM   #19
Billy G
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Ok, thank you for that last reply. Now I see what I am up against. I just went over the weights of everything but the airframe itself. The total after conversion came to 9.555 Lbs. Does this sound right? With a 7 LB. airframe we go to 16.55 Lbs. Am I getting close?

"Billy G"
Billy G is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 04:23 PM   #20
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Yes, 16.55lb sounds in the right ballpark. Obviously a lot depends on the build spec and if you use retracts and flaps and such like.

You could go with slightly smaller batteries if weight becomes critical. You could maybe go down to two 10s (approx) 3500mAh packs (with high 'c' rating) if you only used full throttle in short bursts. That would trim a couple of lb off the flying weight, at the expense of duration, obviously.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 04:39 PM   #21
Old 'N Slow
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 74
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

.
Old 'N Slow is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 05:40 PM   #22
Billy G
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

That's a bunch of questions. LOL Let's start with the fans throttle requirement. The initial game plan was to use this plane in competition aerobatics. Along the way it became obvious that this was not in the program. The separate throttles were to hold line tension in sharp corners. Also to play a little in tail stands. The elevator is in the center of the exhaust stream to act as a type of vectored thrust to sharpen the corners. Now the plane has come to be a super oddity to wow the crowd.

Let me look thru my paperwork and see what you guys might find pertinent.

The control system, bellcrank, etc. are all made from 7075 T3 Aluminum and the rods CF.

"Billy G"
Billy G is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 07:09 PM   #23
Old 'N Slow
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 74
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

.
Old 'N Slow is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 07:21 PM   #24
Billy G
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Old' N Slow, you have never seen a BiSlob fly. The hover nose up all the time. Just google BiSlob and enjoy the youtubes. They do it with no throttle. On mine the outboard throttle is cut back causing the inboard to over run it and force the nose out. Line Tension plus.

"Billy G"
Billy G is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 07:24 PM   #25
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Tail stands (hovering) on a control liner would be something to see. As noted above I'd be terrified it would result in the lines losing tension (which as anyone who has flown control line knows spells disaster). The though of a model this large, heavy and powerful turning into the circle makes my blood run cold.

You are a brave man!
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Electric Ducted Fan Jets

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EDF to model size ..... solentlife Electric Ducted Fan Jets 46 08-25-2013 02:07 PM
Micro F15 twin 35mm EDF Joe 1320 Indoor & Micro Electric Planes 9 03-01-2013 04:49 PM
Skyangel / Jpower A-10 35mm EDF Joe 1320 Electric Ducted Fan Jets 8 10-06-2012 07:05 PM
Screamer 50mm EDF by Skyangel / Jpower Joe 1320 Electric Ducted Fan Jets 26 08-17-2012 10:16 PM
ELERC Micro A-10 Warthog 30mm EDF Beta Test Joe 1320 Electric Ducted Fan Jets 13 02-02-2012 01:15 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:08 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 2.18182 seconds with 71 queries