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Old 11-17-2013, 03:28 AM   #1
DavidR8
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Default Slave struts

Hi all, I'm working on my first scratch build foamie, a Mikey's RC FPV V3.

I'm getting set to do the control surface linkages. As you can see in the photo, my servos are located 4" in from the inboard end of the 16" long aileron/elevator

There will be slave struts that operate the lower control surfaces.

Should the slave struts be located close to the servo linkage or should they be in the middle of the width of the control surface?

My initial thinking is that they should be in the middle but that makes me wonder if that will create the potential for the lower surface to exert a 'twisting' force on the upper surface because the servo is not in line with the strut.

Or am I way over thinking this?

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:16 AM   #2
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Cool plane, Mikey's stuff looks fun
Good question on the control placement, my thoughts would be to keep your control rods inline UNLESS you are talking wood/balsa ailerons since they're much more twist resistant. With the thin foam you will use on your V3 I would also move the primary link as far as you can to the middle of the master aileron...if it's not perfectly inline with your servo that's ok, a little angle in the control rod won't hurt.
I just went out and looked at a Multiplex Gemini bipe I have, for reference, and the slave strut is just slightly outboard of the master.
Good luck on the build.
--Ray

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Old 11-17-2013, 04:28 AM   #3
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Hi This video may Be Of Some help


I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:32 AM   #4
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For best mechanical advantage the slave struts should be directly behind the control horns, in line with the pushrod and either at or behind the TE of the ailerons.

The slave strut being behind and in line with the pushrod and control horn is to prevent warping the aileron that is going to be pushing the other aileron.

Having the slave strut as far back as possible gives best mechanical advantage and lowest stress on the slave strut.

Other factors come into play in the placement of the slave strut in full scale and thus it may appear that the positioning as I described isn't quite right when comparing to full scale.

You could also desire to use the scale placement. That is fine, but ensure the aileron that is being direct driven by the servo is stiff enough to deal with any offset vs where the control horn is located, so it will have minimal warp induced from the load offset. This is the most important issue if offsetting.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:42 AM   #5
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Default Thanks!

Good point on angling the links . I'll bring them outboard a bit more and keep the struts inline.

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:11 AM   #6
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Does this help you ?



Servo links are near fuselage sides and inter-aileron links are at half span at t/e of surfaces.
Normally I would have them in same line but here it proves it's not a problem.

All foam and no problem with twist or deformation. Look at the size of the ailerons - massive !!



Here's my Ultimate with links in line ..



Nigel

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Old 11-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #7
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A really elegant solution is to use a pull/pull cable system like on the Sopwith Pup.
Click image for larger version

Name:	ControlRuns.jpg
Views:	281
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ID:	171974
It has the advantage that no load (twisting or otherwise) is transferred from one aileron to the other. Even the aileron horns are simple struts with no bending loads.


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Old 11-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by quorneng View Post
A really elegant solution is to use a pull/pull cable system like on the Sopwith Pup.
Attachment 171974
It has the advantage that no load (twisting or otherwise) is transferred from one aileron to the other. Even the aileron horns are simple struts with no bending loads.
Lovelly ... honest.

But a bit ambitious for a newbie ?

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 11-17-2013, 06:30 PM   #9
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Default Perhaps...

Originally Posted by quorneng View Post
A really elegant solution is to use a pull/pull cable system like on the Sopwith Pup.
Attachment 171974
It has the advantage that no load (twisting or otherwise) is transferred from one aileron to the other. Even the aileron horns are simple struts with no bending loads.
On my next build...

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
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Old 11-17-2013, 06:32 PM   #10
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Default Love the SE5!

Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Does this help you ?



Servo links are near fuselage sides and inter-aileron links are at half span at t/e of surfaces.
Normally I would have them in same line but here it proves it's not a problem.

All foam and no problem with twist or deformation. Look at the size of the ailerons - massive !!



Nigel
Was that from a plan?

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:49 PM   #11
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Yes it was ... downloaded of the Web ...

SE5 Full fuselage - in the Scratchbuild section >

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...+Full+fuselage

Follow the full build there and how I modified easily the flat plate 3D wing to a camber ..

Nigel

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Old 11-17-2013, 07:50 PM   #12
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Mickey's RC FPV V3.........a very ambitious endeavor for a complete newbie indeed!

Hope the OP takes a look and studies this link in depth......lots of possibilities and tricks to get this bird off the ground with complete success:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1654422


It certainly will be a whole lot different than that 3ch Cub re-build............

AMA 928214
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:13 PM   #13
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Default It's been fun

Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
Mickey's RC FPV V3.........a very ambitious endeavor for a complete newbie indeed!

Hope the OP takes a look and studies this link in depth......lots of possibilities and tricks to get this bird off the ground with complete success:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1654422


It certainly will be a whole lot different than that 3ch Cub re-build............
Yes, that thread and other threads have been very helpful.
I have no illusions that it will be a cakewalk but I wanted the challenge of both the build (which has been very easy so far) and the flight.

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:59 AM   #14
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Glad to provide assistance.

Note that as very well demonstrated with the Se5a, the ideal geometry is not REQUIRED in every case...

It works fine for that model to have it set up with far from ideal geometry. That makes it OK to do... for that model.

The SE5a's ailerons simply are stiff enough for the loads involved, so it works. Ideal geometry would have servos, pushrods and primary control horns out in line with the locations of the slave struts, similar to the Ultimate's control system geometry.

Centered in the span of the aileron is part of ideal. Being off center of span a little is generally not going to cause any problems when the servos, pushrods, horns and slave struts are all lined up.

Try the geometry used on the SE5a with that Ultimate and you would have problems that could be severe enough to cause the ailerons to flutter and be shredded the first time you attempted a high rate axial roll at speed.

It is fine to simplify the setup as long as it is done allowing for the expected loads on the control system.

We do a LOT of control linkage stuff using other than ideal geometries.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:14 AM   #15
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In fact the SE5 ailerons do flex when used .. they are 3D sized .. as the original plan was flat plate wings in 6mm ..

But many people forget that the airframe rotates, pitches up / down etc. in response to control movement. Initially you get a high load, but as airframe acts - the load decreases.
It is not like when you twist the surface by hand to test stiffness .. then you are applying a force that is not relieved by airframe moving in response to surface.

Many biplane models high load and low - years ago had torque rod ailerons and mid span interlinks ... without problems. We didn't generally fit separate servos as they were too big to hide in the wings of general sort stuff.

The Ultimate has the better set-up of course ...

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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