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Old 11-21-2013, 10:34 PM   #1
thepiper92
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Unhappy Breaking Motor Shafts

Hello, I recently just got my Mini Switch back from my LHS. They fixed my two motors for me. The stock motor snapped a shaft after the first few flight. The first flight I ever attempted with the plane was with a huge battery, and the result was bad, but after getting a better battery, the plane flew well. On the third or fourth flight the plane nosed over, as all the flights, as I am flying on a grassy field (no snowy, so hoping skis will make it all better). The nose over on the flight was just enough for it to nose over, meaning that it went on its nose and almost came back down on the wheels. There was no power in the motor, and the prop was simply turning from the air moving it. This caused the motor shaft to snap. There no replacements available, and so I bought a 950kV E-Flite motor from my LHS, for around $70. The stock motor is 1100kV, but they convinced me that the plane would fly perfectly well, just slower. Well it turns out they were wrong and the plane just did a glide into the ground, and the shaft snapped too, and the motor is brand new. This also damaged the bearing, and so my LHS got a guy to fix both motors. The stock one now has a drill bit as a shaft, but I put it in anyway, as I don't like the E-Flite one, for it requires at 9 inch prop, which will decrease ground clearance, and the spinner needs modifying to fit with the 9 inch prop. So far so good, and am I hoping the drill bit will hold up. I just don't understand why I break so many of the shafts, my LHS tells me they never carry the shafts because no one breaks them. Even on my larger Durafly Spitfire, which is in need of new parts because of a servo failure, the adapter bent (there is no motor shaft coming out of the motor on the Durafly), but on this Mini Switch, the Collet seems stronger than the shaft. Any help would be appreciated. I am also looking into if it is possibly to straighten a collet adapter, as well as any 1100kV motors for the plane. I ordered some from Strong Motors, although with the lack of specks, I am unsure if the motor will be shorter than the stock or E-Flite one, and thus will not handle what a larger motor can.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:58 PM   #2
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two or three cells? I strongly prefer the heads up power up series. I run a heads up power up slowfly,sport, and plus motors and love them all. a 450 class motor generally has a 3mm shaft. the powerup 450 sport and slow fly both have very strong and short 4mm shafts with prop adapters that go over them. with probably 1000 flights and maybe 15 totaled air frames, I have replaced one shaft. love these motors.

www.headsuprc.com

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:14 AM   #3
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here is a nice 2830 1100kv motor from HURC.

http://www.headsuphobby.com/Firepowe...otor-E-630.htm

and here are some motor shafts for this 2830 1100kv motor

http://www.headsuphobby.com/Replacem...m-Z-100-10.htm


or the rotor end prop adapter if you use this side of the motor

http://www.headsuphobby.com/Rotor-En...tors-D-180.htm

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:13 AM   #4
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Are these motors better than E-Flite? Are the shafts breaking on mine because they are weak, because the collet doesn't go on all the way? Or maybe I tighten the prop down too much? This is where I ordered motors from: http://www.strongrcmotors.com/Motors.htm

More specifically the 43g 1130kV motors.

It was sure a mistake to buy the E-flite if you guys are standing behind $16 motors, which are the same price as the ones I ordered.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:42 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
Are these motors better than E-Flite? Are the shafts breaking on mine because they are weak, because the collet doesn't go on all the way? Or maybe I tighten the prop down too much? This is where I ordered motors from: http://www.strongrcmotors.com/Motors.htm

More specifically the 43g 1130kV motors.

It was sure a mistake to buy the E-flite if you guys are standing behind $16 motors, which are the same price as the ones I ordered.
Sometimes the motor shafts on some motors are to Brittle, and they will snap and break off, I have had great luck with HURC motors, i have crashed them and have never broken a shaft, i have only burnt up one HURC motor, and it was my fault, i over amped it big time I have HURC motors here that are 6 years old, and still going strong, thats why I recommend HURC motors for a inexpensive motor. they just work great.

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Old 11-22-2013, 07:50 AM   #6
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Do you think the Strong Motors would be comparable? I've just had no luck with motor shafts. The stock motor broke from barely a nose over. Seems a little ridiculous. And then with a $70 motor, the shaft shouldn't break at all. It makes me feel like I'm terrible at flying taking the plane down or to call about a new shaft. I am new at flying, but I have absolutely no issue flying, probably thanks to driving rc cars prior to planes, thus being able to comprehend direction of the plane easier than most newcomers would. Even landings for me aren't difficult. It's just that nose overs are guaranteed where I fly, and I actually can't take the landing gear off the Mini Switch, simply because the plane already loves being tail heavy, and removing the gear would require something to make up for that weight. It's not a perfect plane in terms of design for the battery tray, or the foam wheel spats, but I enjoy it every time I get it in the air, and expect the motor to handle little nose overs with no throttle.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:18 AM   #7
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I am Not familiar with the Strong Motors, so i cant advise you on those motors, here is an idea, add more forward rake to the front landing gear, so it does not nose over on you, the GWS formosa planes love to nose over and the LG is weak, I make custom LG for planes to solve issues like that,
I made up a set of landing gear with a 30 Degree forwards sweep angle, and that took care of a Formosa tipping over when landing and made for a sweet take off

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...a+landing+gear

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:24 AM   #8
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move the LG forwards, remove the Wheel Pants, and use a larger wheel, that may solve the problem too

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:45 AM   #9
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Sad story .............. BUT replacement shafts ARE available from 3rd party vendors such as RCTimer and many others online.

No need to go to brand name of motors.

Nigel

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Old 11-22-2013, 12:14 PM   #10
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x2.

headsuprc has a whole mess of motor shafts, bearings, and just about anything else you would need. cheap shipping, good prices and incredible customer service. I generally only have to wait 2 days for shipping from Florida to my doorstep in Utah.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:55 PM   #11
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Landing gear would be hard to move forward without buying new aluminum that has been shaped to sweep forward. I don't want to cut the plane too much either, as it isn't my test plane. Once I get further into flying, I will experiment more, but as for now, I rather just stick to motors and props that don't require me to ream out the cowling of the plane or anything. As for larger wheels...I would need a lot larger wheels to get over the grass I deal with, probably something like 4 inch wheels. I could always land on the street, although I always have a concern about the street lights. Of course this plane isn't as easily pushed around as my other plane, but then cars are another issue, and it seems many don't pay attention to little kids riding their bikes on the sidewalk and stop at the stop sign, let alone an RC plane landing. I myself would notice these things when driving, but not one else cares, it's like they drive and anything they hit is the fault of those things for being in the path of their car. It seems I have the places to fly, but not the places to land.

I have just put skis on my plane...again my LHS screwed me over with skis that are meant for the planes with the wire kind of landing gear. I have custom fit them, along with being able to fit the springs. I am hoping that the snow covering the field, and the skis, will help my landing, or perhaps landing on the street, as people tend to drive less and go slower in winter, giving me more time to land
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Sad story .............. BUT replacement shafts ARE available from 3rd party vendors such as RCTimer and many others online.

No need to go to brand name of motors.

Nigel
Strong Motors sells shafts too, and I purchased a number of shafts as well. I am hoping the drill bit will work well
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
I am Not familiar with the Strong Motors, so i cant advise you on those motors, here is an idea, add more forward rake to the front landing gear, so it does not nose over on you, the GWS formosa planes love to nose over and the LG is weak, I make custom LG for planes to solve issues like that,
I made up a set of landing gear with a 30 Degree forwards sweep angle, and that took care of a Formosa tipping over when landing and made for a sweet take off

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...a+landing+gear
From looking at your landing gear, your gear is not much further forward than mine. Mine mounts on the fuselage, but it relation to the wing, mine is about as far forward as yours. My landing gear is fairly weak where it mounts, hopefully better now that I have put better glue on. It wound be difficult to put it further forward, as I would have to cut out the original plastic mount in the plane, fill that hole and then make a new one further forward. If I could find aluminum shaped to sweep forward more, that would be a much better situation.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by hayofstacks View Post
x2.

headsuprc has a whole mess of motor shafts, bearings, and just about anything else you would need. cheap shipping, good prices and incredible customer service. I generally only have to wait 2 days for shipping from Florida to my doorstep in Utah.
If you want to buy metric shafting in quantity, check out some of those metal supply houses. Around Wisconsin, we've got www.speedymetals.com. They stock just about anything from tiny stuff, to foot diameter stock. And, their web site has a lot of information on what the specifications are for the various types of metals, from tool steel, to brass, copper, aluminum, you name it. I've purchased some steel tubing 4 inches by 8 inches by 2 feet long with a 3/8 inch wall. That was used to convert a Sherline lathe to a mini mill.

Now, for the cost of shipping a three foot piece of steel rod that costs $6.00?

http://www.speedymetals.com/c-8291-o-1-metric.aspx

Example spec sheet:
http://www.speedymetals.com/information/material9.html


http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-705-8...shed-1018.aspx

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Old 11-23-2013, 05:38 AM   #15
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I'll see how the stock motor is with the drill bit, and how the Strong Motors are.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:17 AM   #16
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One of the reasons I don't use drill bits or plain rod from other uses - most motors use a C clip ... and I prefer to buy a shaft already grooved for them.
Yes - you can Dremel a groove - but not everyone has a Dremel. I have and I have tried - but the Carbo discs keep breaking when I try.

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Old 11-23-2013, 06:28 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
One of the reasons I don't use drill bits or plain rod from other uses - most motors use a C clip ... and I prefer to buy a shaft already grooved for them.
Yes - you can Dremel a groove - but not everyone has a Dremel. I have and I have tried - but the Carbo discs keep breaking when I try.

Nigel
The who fixed the motor put a collar on the shaft to hold the motor together/hold the bearing in place. It seems like the motor will hold together fine.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:43 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
The who fixed the motor put a collar on the shaft to hold the motor together/hold the bearing in place. It seems like the motor will hold together fine.
Yes - true ... I have done that as well ... they are standard wheel collars available in many sizes and if not - can be drilled out to fit.

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Old 11-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #19
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The Strong RC motors are very good and I have several that have been in use for a few hard years. My favorite spitfire uses one of the 85 gram motors. The motor is worked hard every flight and has held up well. I did break a shaft once but it was the most spectacular crash I have had. Touched the prop to the ground on a high speed low pass.

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Old 11-23-2013, 05:40 PM   #20
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Touching the prop to the ground while at or near full throttle, I would certainly expect the prop or motor shaft to snap, but at no throttle is ridiculous I find. If that's what it took to snap the shaft on a strong motor, it should work well for me with my light mini switch
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
One of the reasons I don't use drill bits or plain rod from other uses - most motors use a C clip ... and I prefer to buy a shaft already grooved for them.
Yes - you can Dremel a groove - but not everyone has a Dremel. I have and I have tried - but the Carbo discs keep breaking when I try.

Nigel
OK
For the mechanical guys out there, are those quality drill bits hardened for the full length of the drill bit? Or just the "drilling" end???

(Of course if you use the bottom of the line import drill bits, maybe none of the bit is hardened steel )

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Old 11-23-2013, 09:03 PM   #22
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Wouldn't it be difficult to simply harden only the drilling end, rather just using a fully hardened piece? Also there would a be an inconsistency in the metal if only part were hardened, possibly leading to a brittle area. From my understanding from a guy who is an engineering tech, if a metal isn't hardened properly, it becomes very brittle, and as such with a half hardened bit, the area between hardened and not hardened would be sort of half hardened, and possibly brittle. The only way to have hardened would be to have 2 separate pieces of metal. With a sort of flux holding them. Speaking from an rc car perspective, part like axles are done like this, in which the areas with stress are hardened, or areas that are thin, fluxed on parts that don't require hardening.
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