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Old 11-30-2013, 12:49 PM   #1
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Default $75.00 Build Contest, Twin EDF Concorde

Just to get my entry thread going ...

Will post relevant data / plans / build once I get home.

Cheers
Nigel

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Old 11-30-2013, 11:36 PM   #2
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:46 AM   #3
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I shall be watching!
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:45 AM   #4
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subscribed now I will be watching both threads

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:43 AM   #5
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So I'd better put a final post comment on the other thread that DEG helped out in ... to come on over here !

Well today is official start day .. and I'm sitting on 160,000 tons of oil and steel ... wishing I was home !!

Cheers

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Old 12-01-2013, 07:37 AM   #6
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OK first of all .. I don't have the skills and patience of likes of Quorneng and Barry ... so my fuselage will not be true scale round, the wing will not have the flowing curved form of the real bird ... it will be rounded corners fuselage and flat plate wing.

Along with DEG's suggestion of raising the wing a touch into the fuselage to offset the increased size of nacelles to take the EDF's .. she should be ok.

The idea is to create a Concorde in a simpler form for anyone to build ... but retaining the general character ... bit like the Sport Scale we can get in various models.

The model will be suitable for either EDF or Pusher ... and I am thinking of completing two of them ... but for purposes of this comp - at moment it's EDF with two 50mm HK Alloy 3S units ...

I would like to go for the original BOAC livery - but already have the BA Speedbird decal sheets downloaded just in case. I have a local shop who can transfer decals to vinyl or thin film ... just need to set sizes and bingo. It's strange as she couldn't have full BOAC dark blue etc. - so she was initially painted up in the 'coming' British Airways livery that then evolved to BA a number of times to the final ...

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Old 12-01-2013, 08:29 AM   #7
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As many know ... Concorde was restricted in paint schemes based on temp profiles of the airframe and supersonic speeds she was capable of. It has to be remembered that she was designed and built in the days of development of materials ... todays materials available would have been a different ball game !

Here is Air France Concorde in the remarkably not well known PEPSI livery - Air France never really profited on Concorde unlike BA ... principally because of where they flew from ... London was the major hub for all Europe ...

Here she is ... (I think it looks awful ... but that's me !!)

http://www.concordesst.com/history/events/pepsi.html

Here is the scheme I am hoping to achieve ... G-BOAA ... see attached below.

I would have liked to do the Royal Mail British Airways livery .. ( it has the Royal crest near top of tail ) ... but I'm not sure I can find a good enough graphic for it ... attached below


Nigel


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Old 12-01-2013, 07:35 PM   #8
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:52 PM   #9
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Default A sad tale ..............

Just been reading this ....

http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/

I am sceptical but do not dismiss it ... my Father was a senior figure in UK CAA (DoT) and was involved in many Air Accidents ... he always said most accidents happen at Breakfast table ... meaning Human Error ...

I put it on this thread instead of Off-Topic ... basically its' to do with my choice.

I do know this : Concorde was withdrawn based on three major factors :

a) Airbuse Industrie were closing down the production line for Concorde parts / service and refused to issue further Airworthiness Certs ... killed it stone dead.
b) Air France never made a profit and had already been pushing for a strategic withdrawal, but as BA was actually making money with Concorde - French pride kept them flying it. Airbus acted and AF took the leap they were crying for.
c) Concorde was a 30yr old beautiful dinsosaur ... cockpit was switches and dials literally.... nothing really fancy about it !! Fly by Wire was on her but analogue hydraulic !!


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Old 12-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #10
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And good luck.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:46 PM   #11
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Wish I could enter this one !! But I think she costs a bit more than $75 !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZeGylHqo7M

What a beauty ....

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Old 12-03-2013, 02:51 AM   #12
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Wow ! Great article that tells a plausible story. I actually stayed in that very hotel near CDG on a layover.Still gives me an eerie feeling. What a crappy Airport CDG is anyway. Nothing like Heathrow.

The RC wet turbine Concorde is a masterpiece.

Looking forward to watching your build. Tip of the day: Don't light a match or you won't get home !

Safe travels,

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Old 12-06-2013, 09:08 AM   #13
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CDG - designed by some idiot Architect ... who designs a central area that the stairs are not aligned with direction of travel ? I thought the old Frankfurt airport was bad enough but CDG takes the prize for total F-up !!

Anyway ...

Back to important matters ....

I'm trying to decide on those bits and bobs extra to the build ... Wheels and controls.

My idea for wheels is to have a light dolly for display on ground and possibly RoG on good surface.

mmmmmm do I make it steerable ? Means a second Rx / power pack on the dolly ...

Retracts are out - wings not thick enough for the actuators. Anyway - the way I land and the angle this baby will come in - I would give them about 1 flight life !

So dolly it is ...

That brings me to how it connects to the model .. so if RoG - the model actually propels the dolly but loses it as soon as it lifts ...
As I reckon I will be fitting a bungee hook as well ... that may provide the answer ... if the hook has a short first part straight down before the bend back ... that can press against the dolly in a slot.

OK - controls ... I mentioned before that I am concerned about splitting the elevons either side of the engine nacelles ... so I propose as before - to have elevons outboard, with inboard via separate servos and only acting as elevators.

Would love to do a 'Droop Snoop' but think it will add complexity ...

So c'mon Guys and Gals .. any ideas ?

Nigel

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Old 12-06-2013, 09:14 AM   #14
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Another area of concern ... the sheer length of fuselage and that long nose ...

I'm considering fitting a narrow wood spine down the entire under-length of the model to assist the pencil like fuselage to withstand rigours of my flying. I will be forced to fly of some rough risky ground ... and I don't really want to keep glueing that nose back on each time !!

Nigel

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Old 12-06-2013, 10:08 AM   #15
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I've seen someone here made a dolly for his HK F-104, and it had steering from the little bit of nlg wire left when the nlg was removed. Hard to describe. The 104 would still be free to lift off the dolly, but the was that bit from the nlg that engaged a slot or something in the Dolly (my so-called smart phone always wants to capitalize the d in Dolly and I'm not correcting it any more!) that controlled the nws.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:53 AM   #16
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Nigel,

A servo controlled, droop snoop would be the bees knees and something keeping to theme of " you don't see everyday" ! Make a simple trunnion with an internal push/pull servo set up.

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Old 12-06-2013, 12:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
I've seen someone here made a dolly for his HK F-104, and it had steering from the little bit of nlg wire left when the nlg was removed. Hard to describe. The 104 would still be free to lift off the dolly, but the was that bit from the nlg that engaged a slot or something in the Dolly (my so-called smart phone always wants to capitalize the d in Dolly and I'm not correcting it any more!) that controlled the nws.
Please accept my apology but today is St Nicholas Day and I am on a Greek Ship with a bit of a party going on ...

What is nlg ... nws ?

I did think about having a contact system for controlling a servo on the dolly .. even to thinking about a small Brushed motor to run it back to 'home-base' via a second Tx. But that's getting way on past the simple idea of the comp.

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Old 12-06-2013, 12:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Nigel,

A servo controlled, droop snoop would be the bees knees and something keeping to theme of " you don't see everyday" ! Make a simple trunnion with an internal push/pull servo set up.
I have given it thought ... and you know that I'm not short of imagination !!

My problem is two fold :

a) I'm not home to start on the building till very late in the proceedings ..

b) With the type of flying area I have - do I want to add to the complexity of inevitable repairs ?

But - it is not completely discounted ...

Nigel

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Old 12-06-2013, 12:07 PM   #19
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Dolly control ...

Thoughts have been around having 3 stiff pins sticking up into 3 holes on model. These would provide + / - / Signal to a 'rudder' servo on the dolly. Angled so that when dolly drops away - the pins slide out .. mmmmmmmmmmmm

Who else has a picture in mind of a Concorde with a dolly hanging of it desperately trying to fly !!

Nigel

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Old 12-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #20
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Solentlife
My own experience with deltas is that you only need small ailerons and the lower its aspect ratio you don't need much elevator either. Concorde has a very low aspect ratio wing!
To save weight on the FD2 I fixed the elevators with modest reflex and used the outboard ailerons as elevons (so only two servo needed ). It still has plenty of control authority, indeed I have had to put 30% expo on the aileron circuit to tame the roll down a bit.
On my proposed Concorde I intend to only use the inner of its two aileron sections as elevons with everything else fixed.

On grass without undercarriage I have found it is better to 'fly on' rather than try a high alpha landing. The full size had to keep the landing speed within reason (cruise to landing speed ratio about 10:1!) whereas delta models seem to survive better approaching at a modest flight speed and use the ground effect to control the sink for the last few inches. On Concorde you may need a small nose skid to keep it at the same height as the engine nacelles.

The rudder on Concorde is quite large and well behind the CofG so I would have thought you don't really need steering on the dolly providing most of the weight is carried on its rear wheels and don't fall into the trap of setting the plane at take off angle as it will tend to blanket the rudder. Do like the full size and 'rotate'.

You might be well advised to make the dolly either so light it could fly with it or so heavy that it can't! You certainly want to avoid the scenario of struggling into the air and then loosing control at 50'.

Well that's about it. Cant wait to see how this progresses!
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:59 PM   #21
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To all please call me Nigel !!

Ok Quorneng ... I remember my LHC Mirage 2000 .. wow !! Take off was fine but landing - what a pig ...

Yes - the difference of nacelle to nose had already ben noted and I was trying to think of ways round this ... partly why I consider using a ply spine.

I'm not thinking of having rudder actually ... just only elevons and throttle.

The full size Concorde actually locked it's outboard surfaces as it accelerated so that only inboard worked at high speed ...

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nigel

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Old 12-06-2013, 05:17 PM   #22
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Nigel
Virtually all swept wing airliners use only inboard ailerons when at speed. The wings are so flexible that at speed there would be a danger of aileron reversal using the outboard ones.

A delta manages fine without a rudder, all mine do, they have to!

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Old 12-06-2013, 05:31 PM   #23
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Hi Simon ...

Yep ... just making points to post really ... and if anyone else following considering making same as what I do - then it's all good for them as well.

I do have another possibility for the U/C ... the Stinger gear ($6 on HK) with steerable nose leg can clip and unclip ... so I may consider fitting that ... so she can fly of hard as well as hand launch without.

Would be nice to fly without wheels though ...







Here's a video showing me unclip from the T45 during a cold winter session !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEVWiho8yx0

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 12-06-2013, 06:11 PM   #24
xmech2k
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Sorry Nigel, nws=nose wheel steering. Nlg=nose landing gear.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:57 PM   #25
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Cheap Profile 6mm depron version: http://youtu.be/bous8xjae3M


Nose droop: http://youtu.be/m-Ap05-yQ5Q

Here's one from DemonDriver over on RCG. He's one of the pre-eminent airliner scratchbuilders on the planet. I follow his airliner builds. Make's a lot of different highly scale airliner models but of course, not for $75.00 : http://youtu.be/o0K3RpONU7c and the update:
http://youtu.be/r20ILOFSPyo


Doing DC-3's and MD-80's at the moment. Just thought there may be some ideas that can be used. Fun to watch his youtubes for scratchbuilders anyway.

-Hawk

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