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Old 12-03-2013, 12:28 AM   #1
Stevephoon
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Default $75 Dollar Build Contest, Ace Mach-None

Hello All,

I've decided to build a Mach-None. Sorry, it's not the Raiders Flying Wing that I was originally thinking of doing. I think that one is a little out of my league for now. I even found a build of one by Sparks of ParkFlyerPlastics.com stating that it was a difficult design to get to balance correctly and fly well.

So...
I've been very partial to the classic pattern planes lately and I came upon these plans over on Outerzone.co.uk It's a small pattern plane that should be perfect for electrifying. Here's a few specs off of the plans.

Wing Span - 40 in
Length - 30 in
All Up Weight - 22 oz
Engine - Cox TeeDee .049
3 or 4 channel (Rudder Optional)



Here's what I am planning -
Built mainly from Fan Fold Foam, but still covered with low temp iron on covering. Use electronic components I already have on hand.

I've never built much more than flat combat planes from foam so far. This will be my first attempt at a complete foam build. I want to get as close to the original look as possible. Wish me luck!

Steve

PS - If this doesn't qualify for this build contest, just let me know. I'll withdraw, but I am still planning on building this plane.


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Old 12-03-2013, 01:14 AM   #2
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Should be sweet. Looks like a pretty straight forward conversion to foam.

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Old 12-03-2013, 01:20 AM   #3
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Mmmmm nice.... Here is one I did a bit ago...

From the Ace kit with the foam wing. It is a great e-conversion. I use a 1700kV 60g motor and 7x5 prop on a light 1300 3s pack.


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Old 12-03-2013, 04:14 AM   #4
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Thats one of my Favorite planes So is the, ACE GLH, goes like Hell the Ace Mach-None Qualifies as a seldom built aircraft. I have never seen one built.


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Old 12-03-2013, 12:37 PM   #5
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Looks like a nice one to build and fly.
Good luck with the build and maiden.
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:26 PM   #6
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Nice - I like the wing ..

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:20 AM   #7
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Default Getting Started

Finally getting started....

I went to Office Max and had them print a full size plan and then I printed a set of tiled plans. I assembled my plans and cut them up for templates for the parts. The sides of the fuse were cut down some to account for the 1/4 in FFF I'll be building with.

I plan on starting with the wing. The plan is to use a solid piece of FFF for both the top and bottom of the wing. I'll build an internal spar out of FFF as well. I may laminate some thin (1/16) balsa to it for strength. The leading and trailing edges will also be made from balsa strips. The ribs will be made from FFF as well, but thinner to account for the thickness of the skins. The ailerons will be initially built with the wing then cut free.

Will this be strong enough? Or should I also add in a carbon fiber rod?

I'll post some more pictures after I cut out some parts to help explain my build plan.

Steve


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Old 12-14-2013, 02:38 AM   #8
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Add some carbon fiber square tube to the wing, that will make the wing very very strong

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...e_750x6mm.html

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store..._750x10mm.html

http://www.rcfoam.com/carbon-fiber-s...f55d56c58c66c1

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Old 12-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #9
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:02 PM   #10
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Default $75 Build Contest - Ace Mach-None

Interesting conversion from nitro to electric. Dang, the price of carbon fiber tubes and rods sure is getting expensive. Inflation is part of the reason I decided to go back to using bamboo sticks. The catch is the bamboo tends to be a little heavier than carbon fiber and has to be used as a rod since I don't know of any sources of bamboo in the small diameters that is sold as a tube. One reason I use bamboo instead of other woods is because it is often lighter in weight and a lot stronger, but still flexible. I have some thin (1/8") sticks that are round and about 8' long (from room divider). I also have some that are slightly thicker that are around 4' long and much stiffer. They were sold by Walmart this year as extra long skewers, but were put on close-out a few months ago.

Needless to say, when I saw the price had gone from $1 for a package of 5, to the close out price of 25 cents, I bought the whole box. I now have so many extra long skewers I will have to pass them down as an inheritance. One nice trait of bamboo is it is easy to mold into many useful shapes with a bit of heat. Some like to use hot water, or a steam bath, and others just use a candle, or equal heat source. Bamboo remains a popular wood for kits and among some classic free flight aircraft model and kite makers. The catch is you have to keep your eyes open if you want sticks of a specific size and length, or buy from Kite parts suppliers. The best sizes and lengths are getting harder to find.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:11 AM   #11
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Bamboo sands beautifully down to whatever size you need, and by using a light bulb as the heat source, and keep moving the bamboo on the bulb, there should be no scorching.

Just my 2.

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Old 12-18-2013, 04:10 AM   #12
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Build Review Wing Work....

Did I mention that I am usually a balsa builder?? A couple of quick flat combat planes (and a full fuse version of Chellie's Pusher Jet) are all that I have built with foam.

So... dreaming up a way to make some spars that actually have some strength had me stumped for a while. I kept thinking like a balsa build trying ways to have a spar that's perpendicular to the wing. The fan fold foam I am using is way too weak for that. It only needs to be 3/8ths of an inch high at the wing tips and 5/8ths at the center... I poked around on the web and saw how others (Like Keith Sparks) were using different layers of foam for the spars. That sounded doable, so here's what I am doing.

1. Sanded the trailing edge of the foam to make a slimmer training edge. This will be done on both upper and lower halves of the wing.
2. Tried to pre-shape the wing with weights and heat.
3. Cut out 1/2 in strips to use as spar laminations. The leading spar with take two layers at the edge and three towards the middle to get to the needed height. The trailing one needs two. Both of these will need to be sanded down and shaped a little bit.
4. Trapped a carbon fiber tube in the rear spar for some real strength.
5. Added a piece of hardwood at the center of the front spar for extra strength and for the fuselage mounting dowel. I want the wing to be removable.

I glued everything with some white Gorilla glue. This wing will not fail! Hopefully it won't be too heavy either. We will see.

Also, the carbon tubes I have I bought for $1.00 each at last year's Toledo Show. I thought that was a bargain!

Steve


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Old 12-18-2013, 04:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Mmmmm nice.... Here is one I did a bit ago...

From the Ace kit with the foam wing. It is a great e-conversion. I use a 1700kV 60g motor and 7x5 prop on a light 1300 3s pack.
That's great Mike! It seems that I am in the ball park with the power system I am planning on using. Yours looks great, hopefully mine will do it justice.

Steve

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:33 AM   #14
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Looking Good

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Old 12-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #15
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Default $75 Build Contest - Ace Mach-None

Looking good. Keith Sparks is a good one to learn from and you probably know he has a website full of RC and such toys to sell. I have purchased a few of his kits over the years and some of the parts he makes. I am very fond of his cartoon airplane series and followed development on just about all of them in the threads in RC Groups. I hope to build some of the projects in a much larger scale and very lightweight so I can stay with 3s and 4s LiPo battery systems. Going beyond those voltages is a tad expensive. For the 4s I prefer to use two 2s LiPo packs. There seems to be a number of advantages over a 4s pack.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:03 PM   #16
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I keep looking at his cartoon planes as well. Maybe one day I'll pick one up.
They are on his web site:
http://parkflyerplastics.com/cart/in...ex&cPath=24_62

Fun, cute little planes.

A little more work on the wing. The glue dried and I did a rough sanding. Now I'm adding some leading edge ribs and some trailing edge pieces for strength and where the aileron hinges will be.

Steve


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Old 12-20-2013, 02:54 AM   #17
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Finished sanding and glued the bottom of the wing on. I'll let it dry overnight and see what type of mess I've created.

Steve


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Old 12-20-2013, 03:12 PM   #18
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After curing overnight and a quick trim and rough sand, here's where the wing is..... Overall I am pleased with my first attempt of a actual airfoil out of foam. There was a rather large area of the trailing edge that did not bond. I am thinking that I'll wait until I cut out the ailerons to fix it. It even seems rather close to the airfoil from the plans... I still plan on gluing a balsa strip on the leading edge. This is for being a little more "ding" proof and having a place to attach my iron on covering.

Steve

Edit... I just weighed the wing. 4.5 oz or 127 grams. Not light, but light enough.


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Old 12-20-2013, 04:58 PM   #19
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Lookin' good.

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Old 12-20-2013, 05:08 PM   #20
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Default $75 Build Contest - Mach None

I have a few of the cartoon style RC airplanes from Keith. Have yet to put one together, but followed the threads. I keep thinking I will build one, but a bit bigger. I am still working on the construction method using recycled foam drink cups as a primary source of material. Think I have it worked out pretty good. The current build is a test run to see if there are any significant bugs to work out. If the xP-55t Ascender variant comes out real good, I may have run out of excuses to get busy.

For the time being, I am distracted by the War Thunder combat aircraft simulation game. I have had a long love affair with combat aircraft and simulation games. Finally got a British bomber in the game and have been terrorizing the opposition (either red or blue team - sounds sort of political) with my weak bombing runs that seem to miss the target most of the time. I made one bombing run on their airstrip and got exactly zero game points for the effort after dropping a total of 12 bombs in three attacks. They almost shot down my plane, but I got back to my base only to crash land.
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:03 AM   #21
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Build Review Trailing Edge Work

I have now cut out the ailerons. I added a 3/32 balsa piece to the back of the wing for a little more strength and for a way to attach the ailerons. I'm planning on using a couple of CA hinges and the covering to attach the ailerons.

Ailerons were created from the cut foam by first creating a beveled edge on the ailerons. I then inserted a 1/4 in balsa piece for where the torque rods will be inserted into the aileron. I don't think the foam would be strong enough on it's own. I then covering the leading edge with 1/16 balsa. I also added some 1/16 balsa caps to the end. It's now stiff enough that I think it may work.

This has been lots of small fiddly work that seems to be turning out OK. Next is the creation of the torque rods and installation of that...

Steve


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Old 12-24-2013, 11:02 AM   #22
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Looking good Steve,keep er going.
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:20 PM   #23
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Nice work.

Lately, I've been building ailerons and flaps from 1/16 or 1/32 balsa on my foam wings. It's easier than trying to work with the foam cut outs.

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Old 12-27-2013, 04:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by pmullen503 View Post
Nice work.

Lately, I've been building ailerons and flaps from 1/16 or 1/32 balsa on my foam wings. It's easier than trying to work with the foam cut outs.

I almost went that way as well... It would have been faster to build the ailerons totally from balsa. But, this is an attempt to build as much from the foam as I can.... But it seems I can't escape some balsa.

I've now created the torque rods from some .047 music wire and spare plastic tubing. I first tacked it in place with foam safe CA. (See 1st photo) I was thinking of just using CA for the whole thing, until one side fell off.... So I mounted the rest of the trailing edge with a small amount of epoxy. The basics of the wing are now complete. The wing tips will wait until near the end of the build. (I just know I'll destroy something if I put them on now...) And there is some more filling and sanding needed...


Hopefully I can start of the fuselage this weekend.

Steve


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Old 12-27-2013, 06:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Stevephoon View Post
I almost went that way as well... It would have been faster to build the ailerons totally from balsa. But, this is an attempt to build as much from the foam as I can.... But it seems I can't escape some balsa.

I've now created the torque rods from some .047 music wire and spare plastic tubing. I first tacked it in place with foam safe CA. (See 1st photo) I was thinking of just using CA for the whole thing, until one side fell off.... So I mounted the rest of the trailing edge with a small amount of epoxy. The basics of the wing are now complete. The wing tips will wait until near the end of the build. (I just know I'll destroy something if I put them on now...) And there is some more filling and sanding needed...


Hopefully I can start of the fuselage this weekend.

Steve
Looking good I always use formed aileron balsa for my builds, its quicker to build with and much stronger than foam, I have spoiled myself

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJD18&P=7

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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