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Old 09-18-2013, 04:07 AM   #1
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Exclamation Visionaire servo warning!

I noticed an issue with my VA last week. I installed the batt, walked over to place it on the tarmac at my local field, and when I did my pre-flight servo checks, the elevator started to oscillate violently up and down. If I wiggle the stick a little it would quit. I have my TX programmed for two settings. AS3X off and on. ("Off" is 0 gain.) Makes no difference. Right aileron is starting to twitch as well.

I thought it was the AS3X acting up. I changed RX at home (Didn't want to fly it with it like that) and it still did it...Did some research and found this thread, and it seems like the servos are wearing out from 3D hovering and such..Mine are exactly as in the video...Loose and fluttery.....REALLY? In a $299 plane?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1887732

Anyone else had this issue? I'm looking for a good servo that won't break the bank. The stock ones are out of stock anyway, and seem to only last a few months. Mine have about 40-50 flights on them, but I fly it very aggressively, lots of high alpha stuff.

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Old 09-18-2013, 04:42 AM   #2
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none digital metal gear 13 gram servo

http://www.headsuphobby.com/Towerpro...ervo-B-520.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital servo

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...g_0_10sec.html

http://rcadvisor.com/real-review-hob...-digital-servo

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Old 09-18-2013, 02:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Pilot Error View Post
Anyone else had this issue? I'm looking for a good servo that won't break the bank.
No issues for me - in fact I am loving those servos. They are super fast and pretty tough.

Originally Posted by Pilot Error View Post
The stock ones are out of stock anyway, and seem to only last a few months.
Says who? Mine are original and still going strong many many months. You have to be a bit leery of "internet" threads. The one guy in 100 that has trouble makes a big case. The guys flying for a long time with never a hitch don't often post a thread that there servos are still working.

Now inspection and checking out a plane you fly aggressively, regularly is likely smart.

Now with that said - I do wonder about the "constant" use factor for the Gyro servos in airplanes. The heli guys have been using them for years but man that has got to be tough on a servo - they NEVER get a break!

My results with cheap Chinese make servos has not been good - with one exception. The 9g XHT's and Tower pro's are cheap, center well and last well too. They do draw pretty high power though.

But I have found NOTHING digital that compares to Hitec or other name brands. Not one. They all have some issue, right now I have some that I thought would be awesome (Corona's) but they are not centering as well as I would like. Every time I buy cheap servo's I regret it. I am done trying to find something that works.

The Hitec 85's are great servos but a tad slow. So not sure I would use them. The 65's are faster but a bit small. So not sure what is a good replacement for them. Now they do make a 5084 heli gyro servo that is SUPER fast and decent strong. That might work - but I have not tried it. Only $30 so not too bad on price either.

Mike
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Says who? Mine are original and still going strong many many months. You have to be a bit leery of "internet" threads. The one guy in 100 that has trouble makes a big case. The guys flying for a long time with never a hitch don't often post a thread that there servos are still working.
Mike
Here's some more great reviews of that stock servo from the website that sells it in the first place..

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-_-EFLR7155#t3

(Read reviews tab) These guys don't seem to like them either. I would feel fairly safe saying the guy making a big deal on the thread I posted isn't the only one on the internet having an issue. I've been on the net since it started, and I know how to sort wheat from chaff.

I've only been flying 30 years, so I'm sure I have a lot to learn yet about airplane electronics..

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Old 09-18-2013, 02:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
none digital metal gear 13 gram servo

http://www.headsuphobby.com/Towerpro...ervo-B-520.htm
Thanks Chellie I'm gonna order some today! We'll test them rigorously and report back!

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Old 09-18-2013, 03:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Pilot Error View Post
Thanks Chellie I'm gonna order some today! We'll test them rigorously and report back!
If you think the Horizon's are bad.... Good luck with those!

I would never consider an analog servo for the VA - with all the tweaking of the Gyros!

Mike
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:05 PM   #7
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Having spent considerable time around some pretty high end heli's, the vast majority of those being E 450's or larger, the most common brands seem to be Hitec, Align and Futaba....many run analog/digital-MG/ballbearing combinations....digital specifically for the rudder (gyro) mix. It seems the analog are still popular due to less power consumption, but just as many guys have everything digital and either bump up battery and ESC sizes or run dual battery systems (on the +450's).......I would think that the resulting wear & tear for heli's would be a good indicator as it relates to agressive 3D plane flight........personally, I'd pick quality and rep over price anyday for servos on either type of craft I endear.....and add periodic inspection or replacement to my (to-do) list regardless (on heli's it's obviously part of the standard routine)...hearing guys tell stories about their servos (especially on heli's) working as good as new with +50hrs of flight time, just reminds me to "consider the source" and look for another opinion....IMHO!

http://www.servodatabase.com/

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Old 09-18-2013, 09:09 PM   #8
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I keep telling myself - O the gang in China eventually gets it right - and right and cheap ROCKS. But, I have tried about a dozen makes of "cheap" and only 1 works well, as pointed out above.

I keep hoping but until then Hitec, Futaba, JR, Airtronics for me. Hyperion makes a darn good servo too. And yes I have heard the Align are very good...

Mike
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
I keep telling myself - O the gang in China eventually gets it right - and right and cheap ROCKS. But, I have tried about a dozen makes of "cheap" and only 1 works well, as pointed out above.

I keep hoping but until then Hitec, Futaba, JR, Airtronics for me. Hyperion makes a darn good servo too. And yes I have heard the Align are very good...

Mike
Mike,
I have seen you fly - you are very gentle with that VS. I get mine on Friday!!

Scott

Too many hobbies, and not enough time!
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:14 AM   #10
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Hey Scott,

Great to see you here ! (3) 114th Aerosquadron dudes in a row.. LOL

I just had an FMS 9g crap out on me after one flight. Infant mortality. Htx900's seem to work pretty good as do TP's at least for the light craft. For an expensive plane ( expensive for me, anyway) like the VA, Hitec or Savox MG's would be the way I'd go. That's what the 3DHS are using.

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Old 09-19-2013, 05:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pilot Error View Post
Thanks Chellie I'm gonna order some today! We'll test them rigorously and report back!
NOOOO.. I'm almost cetain tbnat the AS3X will only work with digitals!

The jitter around centre is not so unusual on digital servos, there is a simple fix. You take a small piece soft of the 'loopy' side of velcro and you stick it on the side of the surface so it rubs on the fixed part of the wing/tail. This creates a little friction damping which stops the jitters very effectively:


PS.. here is what Horizon say (taken from the manual) about using analogue servos with AS3X:


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Old 09-19-2013, 05:45 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Hey Scott,

Great to see you here ! (3) 114th Aerosquadron dudes in a row.. LOL

I just had an FMS 9g crap out on me after one flight. Infant mortality. Htx900's seem to work pretty good as do TP's at least for the light craft. For an expensive plane ( expensive for me, anyway) like the VA, Hitec or Savox MG's would be the way I'd go. That's what the 3DHS are using.
Yep The cheapy HXT 9 gram servos work great, they are a little power hungry, but thats why they are so strong, the TP servos work great too, I have not had one just Quit on me, but i have damaged them, My Fault

here is My 48" W/S scratch built Profile depron plane with HXT 9 Gram servos. my friend Steve is doing the Maiden flight and I am Doing The Video, The Plane is getting a work out for sure Take care, Chellie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=lTbir0Uc6Q8


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Old 09-19-2013, 05:53 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
And yes I have heard the Align are very good...

Mike
Align don't make servos. Their servos are re-badged Savox, and yes, Savox are nice servos.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:01 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Yep The cheapy HXT 9 gram servos work great, they are a little power hungry, but thats why they are so strong, the TP servos work great too, I have not had one just Quit on me, but i have damaged them, My Fault
Personally I'd not even consider a 9g plastic gear servo on a 3D model as big as the VA. They may be fine for a profile foamy but at the end of the day they are cheap plastic gear servos with no bearings..
IMHO if you want to change servos (I dont think he needs to, as noted above) then you should upgrade, not downgrade. I've had good results from Savox SH-0257 and SH-0255 (use the 0255 where you need extreme torque, the 0257 will be fine for the VA).

Each to their own of course...
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:13 AM   #15
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Hi I Was Not Suggesting that a person use a cheapy 9 gram servo in a 3d VA Model Plane I was agreeing with dahawk that they are a good servo, Thats why i linked the 13 gram Metal Gear servos as a suggestion , they have a top metal bearing.

none digital metal gear 13 gram servo

http://www.headsuphobby.com/Towerpro...ervo-B-520.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital servo

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...g_0_10sec.html

http://rcadvisor.com/real-review-hob...-digital-servo

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Old 09-19-2013, 05:23 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Align don't make servos. Their servos are re-badged Savox, and yes, Savox are nice servos.
Picky, picky, picky.......

I don't believe anyone here stated Align manufactured (made) servos. Only brand names were mentioned....of which many are (re-labeled).
As far as manufactured or R/D'd.......Savox is a division of the Tricore Corporation, located in Taiwan, China....along with those brand names like Align, JR, Spectrum. I believe Hitec is a Japanese based company.......all of which have subsidaries here in the US, Europe, Korea and Canada....and yes, I was aware that many Align (Savox) servos are relabeled, due to my brothers involvment in the RC rock crawler/dirt track racing experience......Savox is quite popular in that environment............So, being China made does not necessarily indicate poor quality, lack of rep or a cost indicator when suggesting "high" end electronic equipment. Particularly if it is R/D'd in Japan......lol

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Hi I Was Not Suggesting that a person use a cheapy 9 gram servo in a 3d VA Model Plane I was agreeing with dahawk that they are a good servo, Thats why i linked the 13 gram Metal Gear servos as a suggestion , they have a top metal bearing.
ok, sorry, i skimmed the thread too fast.

Yes, the MG90's are very good servos for the price,but given Horizon's warning about using analogue servos with AS3X I'd personally stick with digitals.. 'if' the existing servos need changing at all, which i dont think is proven.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
ok, sorry, i skimmed the thread too fast.

Yes, the MG90's are very good servos for the price,but given Horizon's warning about using analogue servos with AS3X I'd personally stick with digitals.. 'if' the existing servos need changing at all, which i dont think is proven.
Really? I tried a couple and they are garbage! Slow, light on torque and they don't center all that well.

I would not use them in anything but maybe a bomb drop....

Also, I was not inferring that I would use the 9g servos in the Visionaire. I was saying they are the only "cheap" servo I use and trust. Every other one has disappointed. So I buy Hitec as a general rule.

Mike
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Really? I tried a couple and they are garbage! Slow, light on torque and they don't center all that well.
I've got three and they seem to work pretty well. Not in the same league as a quality digital servo, but for the price I was happy. I've not put a lot of flights on them so cant really say much for their longevity.

One of the down sides of cheap servos is that quality does seem to vary from batch to batch.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
One of the down sides of cheap servos is that quality does seem to vary from batch to batch.
Yep no question - they vary even in the same batch.

I just keep thinking one day - we will have a $10 digital Hitec killer. But I may just be dreaming...

Mike
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:36 AM   #21
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The elev servo crapped out on mine about 6 months ago when the gear mesh got so loose I had to back off on the gain to keep it from fluttering. I checked the torque between it and the HXT 900 and could see little difference, so I installed it. Had to put a filler piece of foam in to make up for the shorter HXT. Been working fine ever since. Even cranked up the gain to where it was originally. One of the faults with metal gear servos is the fast wear conpared to plastic gears. The gears in the HXT 900s are about twice as thick as any servos of comparable size, so they can cope with the load. I used the longest arm that came with the HXT and moved in on the elev. horn to keep the same throw. Been working fine since.

Gord.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:49 PM   #22
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My new MG 13g servos arrived. FAST service from Ocala! IF I get time I'll get the new servos installed this week and fly the thing this weekend to test it out. I'll report back how the new servos work....Stay tuned.

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Old 09-23-2013, 06:35 PM   #23
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I needed new servos for mine because of a bad crash with a light pole. I went the hobbyking route. There is just one really big problem. Those servos are 23mm long and the servos that came out of the plane are 28mm long. In fact all of the servos listed by CHELLIE are 23mm long and will not fit into the plane without making some kind of adapter. Hitech 5085 and 5084 are the right size but people have been saying that switching from sport to 3d mode changes the center of them. Personally, I'm just going to wait for EFLR7155 to stop being on back order.

I'm getting pretty sick Horizon's BS. After how much of a complete POS the 130x was and now servos for the visionaire are back ordered everywhere.....
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:24 PM   #24
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The HXT 900s are also 23mm long, I hotglued in an EPP foam filler piece and hotglued in the servo. With the servo arm output towards the front of the plane, the pushrod comes out in the right place.

Gord.
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:28 PM   #25
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Thanks man! I'll have to give that a shot. I have a good deal of servos that size hanging around.
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