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Batteries & Chargers Discuss Li-P, Li-Ion, NiMh, Nicad battery technology and the chargers that juice 'em up!

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Old 10-01-2011, 04:15 PM   #1
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Default Reviving LiPo's

I recently went to fly out one of my models and found I had not unplugged the 2200 3S LiPo from the last time I used it and it was totaly dead but not puffed up. I was about to ditch it when I remembered something I read a long time ago when LiPo's were expensive. I linked up the pack to a NiCad charger and watched it very carefully until the meter showed 12V, I then took it off charge and put it on my LiPo charger at 1C. It took nearly 2 hours to reach 12.6V.
In testing it is as powerful as identical packs, discharges similar amounts and shows full voltage.
I am not recommending that anyone else tries this but I do expect to be shot at by doubters.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:39 PM   #2
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interesting. how long is the flight time??
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:20 PM   #3
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When you say it was 'totally dead' do you mean you checked the voltage and it was zero, or simply that the motor didn't run? If it was just that the motor didn't run then that would only show that the battery was below the ESC low voltage cut-off, which would usually be set at a 'Lipo safe' voltage of 3 - 3.1v per cell.

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Old 10-01-2011, 06:21 PM   #4
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Default Reviving LiPo's

The moodel is a power assisted glider, I normally have timed 30 min. flights with each of 3 identical packs including the revived one and when recharged there is no significant difference in the Mah put back in to each pack, allowing for the variation in powered flight time, which obviously varies slightly. After about 12 flying sessions there is no difference I can measure between the 3 packs.
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:38 PM   #5
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You have a VERY LOW amp draw. What has likely happened is internal damage increases the internal resistance. This may not change capacity but does change performance. Your's is so low you don't notice it.

The bigger problem is that the extreme discharge causes other changes. This 'may' increase the inherent volatility of the lipo. If the risk is worth it to you...have at.
Just be aware, there ARE risks.

Disclaimer - I've done the same thing myself, and have been using the recovered lipo for over a year. It has taken a bit of a hit compared to an identical lipo that was not abused, and is mildly puffed. It is WELL marked and I watch it like a hawk. It is not valuable (like $6) and is ....small (1000mA/2S)... so I figure it's a manageable risk/experiment. This is a deliberate choice and I KNOW there are risks.

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Old 10-01-2011, 08:29 PM   #6
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The pack was dead, it did not register anything on my balancer and my Lipo charger would not register or acknowledge that anything was connected. There is a label wrapped around the pack marked "SUSPECT" so I can keep an eye on it compared to the other packs I use in this model and this model only. Time will tell.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:45 PM   #7
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Default Almost totally Discharged LiPo

Hi folks, I know this is an old thd but hope someone out ther will read this and advise me. I have a small 2S LiPo which has been discharged to under 3 V. No puffing or anything. LiPo charger shows fault and won't charge. Tried the NiMh charger trick. Charged to indicated v of about 6 v. Multimeter check says 5.8 V but when connected to ESC, I get no reply from servos or throttle. Connecting to LiPo charger I get error indication.
Anybody got any ideas?
Many Thanks, Fly

Thats a Lockheed P2V-6 Neptune with MAD gear tail and observation nose. That nose was a great place to ride and take pics,touring the Med !!
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:52 PM   #8
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A lot of chargers will not acknowledge a battery pack or cell if its below 3v's per cell. You need to charge it to over 6.0v's, and then try to balance charge it from there.

Do you have a li-fe setting on the charger?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by hayofstacks View Post
A lot of chargers will not acknowledge a battery pack or cell if its below 3v's per cell. You need to charge it to over 6.0v's, and then try to balance charge it from there.

Do you have a li-fe setting on the charger?
No, just NiCd and NiMh. I'll try charging to like 6.5 v and try again on LiPo charger. Thanks for info, Fly

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Old 01-20-2013, 02:27 AM   #10
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I had exactly the same experience. Left a battery in the plane overnight. It read 0 V when I found it. Charged it very slowly up to a reasonable level, and then put it on the regular charging cycle. It puffed ever so slightly (the casing had started out very tight), and I was ready to throw it out. But the guys at Aero Model said give it a couple of cycles of use and see what happens. It's been fine ever since. The slight puff went away and it is has as much oomph as its less abused brethren.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:42 AM   #11
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I (seem to) have revived a couple of "dead" lipo's today. Both small 2 cells that had been depleted below the level where my charger would accept them.

I set the charger (a Hobby King "Accucell 6") to NiMH, Man, 0.1a, and connected just the main tap (not the balance plug). Let it charge till the voltage was about 6.8, then switched the changer back to LiPo balance charge; it accepted them, and charged them up as normal.

After that I ran them both down running a motor at half throttle (static test) and they ran it as long as I would expect a good battery to do. Charged them back up as usual just fine.

One of them has been dead as a doornail, sitting on a shelf for over a year. It was in a plane that spent the night in a tree . The other was pretty much new, but I accidentally ran it way down operating my Voltron GPS thingie. Different brands, the first 250 mAh, the second a whopping 180 mAh.

Time will tell, I suppose.

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Old 08-29-2013, 06:20 AM   #12
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Yeah, I've done this a few times too. Largest battery i recovered was a 3s 2200 and more than 6 months later that battery is still working as well as any other of the same age.

It doesnt always work but it's worth a try.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:38 AM   #13
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If its down to the point where you have to "revive" it... its damaged.
Any battery that is abused is damaged to some extent by the abuse. It does not matter what chemistry the battery is based on.

You might get normal service out of it or you may just cause a fire. Generally expect something in between.

Go ahead and attempt it if you want... but do it with caution. Do the recovery process using some form of fire resistant container for the battery.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:42 AM   #14
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I've read a lot about charging LiPos and recovering cells etc. - and not one 've tried has recovered to be useable.

I even have a lead that can connect to 2 pins of a balance plug - so I can charge a single cell ... I have a few LiPo's that 1 cell has gone zero or 0.x Volts .. no good - no recovery.

Most of the recoverys I assume are total battery jobs where total battery has been discharged too far .. not the 1 cell out of 2 or 3 ?

Anyone any experience of recovering a single cell out of a pack ?

I do have an idea - just accept that this is an IDEA and not actually in use ...

I have a 4S pack that says 3S on checker ... one cell is dead. I'm wondering whether to clip the balance lead and replace with a 3cell lead and use as a 3S pack - isolating the dead cell of course. The weight is same as a larger capacity 3S and would work fine in a 3S model.


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Old 08-30-2013, 04:17 PM   #15
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I have done it several times. when we first started flying with lipo batteries, we only had a cheapie eflight cigarette lighter charger. we left the batteries pluged into the charger after bringing the charger inside. it continued to drain the batteries and several times a battery checker wouldn't even light up. I had a 1 amp 12v jst charger and built an adapter and hooked it up to the deans connector and left the cell checker on the balance port. as soon as all 3 cells were over 3.0v's I ran it over to a real balancing charger and did manage to recover the battery.

I should mention, out of 7 or 8 batteries I did this to, none of them function any longer, all were dead in less the a year. instill have some eflight batteries that we have had for some time (2-3 years) that were cared for the same (minus leaving it on the charger unplugged over night) that still have good capacity and amp bursting.

it will damage your batteries, it will kill your flight times, but you can use it instead of throwing it away. I did however have one battery I did this to light up and burn out a cell while in flight, so I no longer recommend doing this to
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:23 PM   #16
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Anyone ever revive a 6s battery? I have a 6s 5000 mah lipo that has never been used and is only reading 3 volts total output. If I put it on a checker it doesn't even read. To bring this up to 3volts a cell would mean a charge of up to 18 volts. If these lipos were not that expensive I would just toss it but...if there is a possibility of saving it I'd like to try if safe to do so. I have a charger that will charge all batteries.

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Old 10-11-2013, 03:29 PM   #17
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I've not tried a 6s but i successfully brought back a 4s only yesterday. that one had been inadvertantly left connected in the model for 3 days and read zero on all cells.

I tried a slightly different approach on this last battery. I took another similar 4s battery that was at about 3.7V per cell and connected the two together so the part charged battery discharged into the flat battery. left then connected for about ten seconds which was enough to get enough voltage into the flat battery for the charger to detect it and charge as per normal. The voltage on the good battery was hardly effected at all.

I tried the recovered battery today in a very high demand application (35c discharge rate) and it performed every bit as well as it ever did.

On the other hand, if your battery has been left flat for months then there is a good chance it cant be recovered, but there is no harm in trying if you take some common sense precautions.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:33 AM   #18
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OK just an update. I charged the 6s using the nimh setting at .2 amp. It took an hour to bring the battery up to 18.6 volts. I then shut it down and setup a lipo balance charge at 2amps. I shut it down when all cells were at 3.8. (#1 cell is at 3.9). I am hoping it will balance out with a full charge or with a discharge and recharge at a later time. It is still a little puffed as it was when I started. Gas release? Somewhere down the line, I'm guessing as this has not been used yet.

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:17 AM   #19
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My main fear when trying to recover a LiPo with NiMH etc. other than balance charge is the risk that 1 or more cells are pushed over the max while another cell basically stays near or at zero. Connecting twopacks together to bring back one - COULD have similar result ..
How ? as the controlling part is not individual cell voltages but overall total voltage.

I've seen this happen and also not only with trying to recover a pack. Charging without balance setting can in some cases push one cell too high ...

Before anyone starts lecturing me on only using balance charge etc. - I am stating this for info ... for those that may not be aware of it.

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:33 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
My main fear when trying to recover a LiPo with NiMH etc. other than balance charge is the risk that 1 or more cells are pushed over the max while another cell basically stays near or at zero. Connecting twopacks together to bring back one - COULD have similar result ..
If you dont balance charge then there is always the possibility of over charging cells should one cell not take it's charge, this is true even in routine charging. The option remains whatever way you charge to use a balance charger or to use a cell checker on the balance port.

As for 'jump starting' from another LiPo, just like any other un-ballanced charging method it could lead to an overcharged cell 'if' you left them connected for a long time, but if you re-check my post I only left then connected for ten seconds, not nearly enough to over charge any cell.

Bear in mind also that this LiPo recovery procedure is not routine, it's something you need to do with great care and take the necassary procedures to prevent cells over charging.


PS.. FWIW I've got a couple of batteries (3s 2200mAh) that were recovered from dead flat (reading zero on all cells) well over a year ago and now have over 100 cycles since recovery, many in high demand (60Amp) applications. These batteries continue to perform as well as others of the same age, no puffing, they have similar i.r., they balance perfectly and give the same run time.

From my experience it seems that bettery recovery is hit or miss, sometimes a cell wont recover and in that case the battery is toast. However if the cells all come back and hold voltage then in my experience the battery is to all intents and purposes as good as it ever was. I've attempted recovery on a few batteries now, success rate is about 4 out of 5.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:46 AM   #21
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JPF ... I'm not attacking your method ... but just making sure people are aware of the possibility.

Many people speed read or only read what they want to see ... missing sometimes vital parts ..

I don't personally like the idea of connecting two packs together like that as you know from other threads ... having seen two NiCD's literally explode when one was connected to another to 'jolt' it back to life. This was an accepted way to revive a zero or near zero volt NiCD in the old days ..
Basically one was not just dead - but shorted internally is all we can guess at ...

A LiPo ... I'd dread to think what could happen if such was case of a more casual approach and connecting two together with one in damaged shorted state !!

I modified an old Futaba servo plug to let me connect to individual cells via the balance plug ... I think this safer and more easily monitored ... This connection then to the charger - which I can read directly while charging - the cell volts etc.

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Old 10-14-2013, 12:51 PM   #22
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Let me add to my post, I don't want to endorse my method of what I did. I was there the whole time monitoring for warmness and watching the volts climbing. I probably should have stopped several times and connected the balance plug to my meter. The one high cell started about .3 of a volt higher than the rest but balance charging brought it down to only a .1 volt difference by storage voltage. Further charging will most likely correct this. I took a chance and took it outside to charge in a safe area and left the lipo outside when I was done in a bucket for the night in a safe area. I have no idea how this battery will behave in the future and it will not be a primary battery. It will be load tested before its first flight.

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Old 10-14-2013, 06:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
I don't personally like the idea of connecting two packs together like that as you know from other threads ...
I tend to agree, the best and safest way to revive a depleted LiPo is to do an initial boost charge using NiCd settings on your charger. Or better yet use a special LiPo recovery program if your charger is so equipped (my icharger has such a program).

The 'jump starting' was really just an experiment, which actually worked fine but that doesn't make it the best way.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:10 AM   #24
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Just another update, I checked the cell voltage and now one cell is under 1 volt. The rest are at storage voltage. I'm guess the lipo is useless. Shame as it has never been flown.

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Old 11-08-2013, 05:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by bluzjamer View Post
Just another update, I checked the cell voltage and now one cell is under 1 volt. The rest are at storage voltage. I'm guess the lipo is useless. Shame as it has never been flown.
I've checked out three LiFe and/or A123 two cell receiver packs that were run into the ground by leaving the receiver powered up. One was mine, the other two belonged to club members.

These A123's were brought to life by connecting them to my variable voltage, current limited power supply, with the voltage set to 7.2 Volts DC, and a current limit of one amp.
http://www.mpja.com/0-18V-0-3-A-Vari...nfo/9600%20PS/

And NO I WOULD NOT TRY THIS ON A LIPO BATTERY.

After both cells made it to 3.0 Volts DC, the batteries were then placed on my Cellpro Powerlab 8 charger to finish the charge cycle.

After this, the three batteries were tested on my Western Mountain Battery analyzer. And, all three cells recovered to only about 65% of original capacity. Strange, they'd all recover to the same amp hour level.

To avoid this in the future on my larger models, I've put a very high powered LED powered by the receiver battery supply aiming straight up, under the canopy. This is hard to miss when putting the model into my car.

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