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Old 12-25-2013, 06:09 AM   #1
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Default Will-Hobby Gee Bee R2 .90 - 1.20 power plant question.

Hello there all

I am hoping some input can be given here for this setup I am thinking of using. The plane specs are below. Will this setup fly this plane like a rocket? Or be just perfect? Any help would be appreciated.

It has a wingspan of 71" and a length of 47". You can power it with either a .91 two cycle or 1.20 four cycle engine. It has a fiberglass fuselage and balsa and ply built up wings. All up RTF weight is about 9 lbs. on glow or gas. As well the weight really did not change going electric 10s 1.60 size.

The setup I am thinking of using is a Rimfire or Turnigy 1.60 brushless. Using eCalc the setup with a Rimfire 1.60 250Kv brushless looks pretty good on 10s. The Turnigy G160 245Kv brushless is almost identical in results. using a 17x10 APC-E prop.

Remarks: ----------------------------------------------------
Battery
Load: 9.82 C
Voltage: 35.53 V
Rated Voltage: 37.00 V
Flight Time: 6.1 min
Mixed Flight Time: 10.4 min
Weight: 1400 g
49.4 oz

Motor @ Optimum Efficiency-------------------------------------------
Current: 49.67 A
Voltage: 35.34 V
Revolutions*: 8146 rpm
electric Power: 1755.1 W
mech. Power: 1646.8 W
Efficiency: 93.8 %


Motor @ Maximum------------------------------------------------------
Current: 49.10 A
Voltage: 35.36 V
Revolutions*: 8155 rpm
electric Power: 1735.8 W
mech. Power: 1628.7 W
Efficiency: 93.8 %
est. Temperature: 43 C
109 F


Propeller------------------------------------------------------------------
Static Thrust: 7716 g
272.2 oz
Revolutions*: 8155 rpm
Stall Thrust: 5010 g
176.7 oz
Pitch Speed: 124 km/h
77 mph
Tip Speed: 664 km/h
412 mph
specific Thrust: 4.44 g/W
0.16 oz/W


Total Drive------------------------------------------------------------------
Drive Weight: 2354 g
83 oz
All-up Weight: 4200 g
148 oz
Power-Weight: 433 W/kg
197 W/lb
Thrust-Weight: 1.84 : 1
P(in) @ max: 1816.6 W
P(out) @ max: 1628.7 W
Efficiency @ max: 89.7 %


This setup below is the Rimfire 1.20 size on 6s 6000 mah 20/30C, with a 100A ESC. 16x8 prop. Which would you run? I know the 1.20 setup is going to be cheaper battery and ESC etc. wise.

Battery----------------------------------------------------------------------
Load: 11.42 C
Voltage: 20.64 V
Rated Voltage: 22.20 V
Flight Time: 5.3 min
Mixed Flight Time: 8.9 min
Weight: 942 g
33.2 oz

Motor @ Optimum Efficiency---------------------------------------------
Current: 69.90 A
Voltage: 20.43 V
Revolutions*: 8732 rpm
electric Power: 1428.1 W
mech. Power: 1290.9 W
Efficiency: 90.4 %


Motor @ Maximum----------------------------------------------------------
Current: 68.50 A
Voltage: 20.47 V
Revolutions*: 8763 rpm
electric Power: 1401.9 W
mech. Power: 1267.2 W
Efficiency: 90.4 %
est. Temperature: 49 C
120 F


Propeller---------------------------------------------------------------------
Static Thrust: 6059 g
213.7 oz
Revolutions*: 8763 rpm
Stall Thrust: 4673 g
164.8 oz
Pitch Speed: 107 km/h
66 mph
Tip Speed: 671 km/h
417 mph
specific Thrust: 4.32 g/W
0.15 oz/W


Total Drive------------------------------------------------------------------
Drive Weight: 1619 g
57.1 oz
All-up Weight: 4200 g
148 oz
Power-Weight: 362 W/kg
164 W/lb
Thrust-Weight: 1.44 : 1
P(in) @ max: 1520.7 W
P(out) @ max: 1267.2 W
Efficiency @ max: 83.3 %


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Old 12-25-2013, 08:39 AM   #2
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Hi and Welcome to Wattflyers I would steer clear of the Large Turnigy Motors, they are prone to throwing Magnets, if using a Rimfire Motor, only use a GP electrifly ss-120 amp Esc, reason being, is that Rimfire motors normally dont like other MFG ESC, something about feed back problems between the motor and esc, when using a rimfire motor use matched esc , you will be glad you did use a Seperate 10 AMP UBEC like a castle creation or a large seperate battery pack. on larger planes, A Turnigy or Castle Creation ESC will work great with the power Eflite Motors. Hope that helps, Chellie

IMHO, I would use a Eflite power 110 or 160 motor, I feel that the EFlite Motor is a much much Better Motor overall.

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...odID=EFLM4110A

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...odID=EFLM4160A


The Power 110 is designed to deliver clean and quiet power equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 110-size 2-stroke glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 9 to 15 pounds (4 to 6.8 kg), 3D airplanes up to 11 pounds (5 kg), or models requiring up to 2000 watts of power.
It will provide excellent performance in the new Hangar 9 Funtana X 100 ARF or ShowTime 4D 90 ARF. The Power 110 provides perfect power for the Ultra Stick Lite 120 ARF.

Product Specifications

Type:Brushless outrunner
Size:Equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 1.10 size 2-sroke glow engine
Bearings or Bushings:One 8 x 19 x 6mm Bearing, and Two 8 x 16 x 5mm Bearings
Wire Gauge:13
Recommended Prop Range:17x8 to 19x10
Voltage:28.2–38.4
RPM/Volt (Kv):295
Resistance (Ri):.03 ohms
Idle Current (Io):1.20A @ 10V
Continuous Current:55A
Maximum Burst Current:65A (15 sec)
Cells:24–32 Ni-MH/Ni-Cd or 8S–9S Li-Po
Speed Control:85A High Voltage Brushless
Weight:490 g (17.5 oz)
Overall Diameter:63mm (2.50 in)
Shaft Diameter:8mm (.3 in) (Includes two 12mm threaded prop shaft adapters with 1.5 pitch)
Overall Length:54mm (2.10 in)

Needed to Complete

85A HV brushless ESC
8S–9S Li-Po or 24- to 32-cell Ni-MH/Ni-Cd
17x8 to 19x10 prop




The Power 160 is designed to deliver clean and quiet power equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 160-size 2-stroke glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 12 to 20 pounds (5.4 to 9 kg), 3D airplanes up to 15 pounds (6.8 kg), or models requiring up to 2700 watts of power. It provides excellent power for the popular 27% scale aerobatic models such as the Hangar 9 Extra 260, scale performance for the Hangar 9 P-47D Thunderbolt 150 ARF, and extreme performance for models like the famous Ultra Stick Lite.


Product Specifications

Type:Brushless outrunner
Size:Equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 160-size 2-stroke glow engine
Bearings or Bushings:One 8 x 19 x 6mm Bearing, and Two 8 x 16 x 5 Bearings
Wire Gauge:13
Recommended Prop Range:18x8 to 20x10
Voltage:33.3–38.4
RPM/Volt (Kv):245
Resistance (Ri):.03 ohms
Idle Current (Io):1.45A @ 10V
Continuous Current:60A
Maximum Burst Current:78A (15 sec)
Cells:28–32 Ni-MH/Ni-Cd or 9S–10S Li-Po
Speed Control:75–110A High Voltage Brushless
Weight:650 g (23.0 oz)
Overall Diameter:63mm (2.50 in)
Shaft Diameter:8mm (.30 in) (Includes two 12mm threaded prop shaft adapters with 1.5 pitch)
Overall Length:64mm (2.50 in)

Needed to Complete

75A-110A HV brushless ESC
9S–10S Li-Po or 28- to 32-cell Ni-MH/Ni-Cd
18x8 to 20x10 prop

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Hi and Welcome to Wattflyers I would steer clear of the Large Turnigy Motors, they are prone to throwing Magnets, if using a Rimfire Motor, only use a GP electrifly ss-120 amp Esc, reason being, is that Rimfire motors normally dont like other MFG ESC, something about feed back problems between the motor and esc, when using a rimfire motor use matched esc , you will be glad you did use a Seperate 10 AMP UBEC like a castle creation or a large seperate battery pack. on larger planes, A Turnigy or Castle Creation ESC will work great with the power Eflite Motors. Hope that helps, Chellie

IMHO, I would use a Eflite power 110 or 160 motor

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...odID=EFLM4110A

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...odID=EFLM4160A


The Power 110 is designed to deliver clean and quiet power equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 110-size 2-stroke glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 9 to 15 pounds (4 to 6.8 kg), 3D airplanes up to 11 pounds (5 kg), or models requiring up to 2000 watts of power.
It will provide excellent performance in the new Hangar 9 Funtana X 100 ARF or ShowTime 4D 90 ARF. The Power 110 provides perfect power for the Ultra Stick Lite 120 ARF.

Product Specifications

Type: Brushless outrunner
Size: Equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 1.10 size 2-sroke glow engine
Bearings or Bushings: One 8 x 19 x 6mm Bearing, and Two 8 x 16 x 5mm Bearings
Wire Gauge: 13
Recommended Prop Range: 17x8 to 19x10
Voltage: 28.238.4
RPM/Volt (Kv): 295
Resistance (Ri): .03 ohms
Idle Current (Io): 1.20A @ 10V
Continuous Current: 55A
Maximum Burst Current: 65A (15 sec)
Cells: 2432 Ni-MH/Ni-Cd or 8S9S Li-Po
Speed Control: 85A High Voltage Brushless
Weight: 490 g (17.5 oz)
Overall Diameter: 63mm (2.50 in)
Shaft Diameter: 8mm (.3 in) (Includes two 12mm threaded prop shaft adapters with 1.5 pitch)
Overall Length: 54mm (2.10 in)

Needed to Complete

85A HV brushless ESC
8S9S Li-Po or 24- to 32-cell Ni-MH/Ni-Cd
17x8 to 19x10 prop




The Power 160 is designed to deliver clean and quiet power equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 160-size 2-stroke glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 12 to 20 pounds (5.4 to 9 kg), 3D airplanes up to 15 pounds (6.8 kg), or models requiring up to 2700 watts of power. It provides excellent power for the popular 27% scale aerobatic models such as the Hangar 9 Extra 260, scale performance for the Hangar 9 P-47D Thunderbolt 150 ARF, and extreme performance for models like the famous Ultra Stick Lite.


Product Specifications

Type: Brushless outrunner
Size: Equivalent to or surpassing the power of a 160-size 2-stroke glow engine
Bearings or Bushings: One 8 x 19 x 6mm Bearing, and Two 8 x 16 x 5 Bearings
Wire Gauge: 13
Recommended Prop Range: 18x8 to 20x10
Voltage: 33.338.4
RPM/Volt (Kv): 245
Resistance (Ri): .03 ohms
Idle Current (Io): 1.45A @ 10V
Continuous Current: 60A
Maximum Burst Current: 78A (15 sec)
Cells: 2832 Ni-MH/Ni-Cd or 9S10S Li-Po
Speed Control: 75110A High Voltage Brushless
Weight: 650 g (23.0 oz)
Overall Diameter: 63mm (2.50 in)
Shaft Diameter: 8mm (.30 in) (Includes two 12mm threaded prop shaft adapters with 1.5 pitch)
Overall Length: 64mm (2.50 in)

Needed to Complete

75A-110A HV brushless ESC
9S10S Li-Po or 28- to 32-cell Ni-MH/Ni-Cd
18x8 to 20x10 prop
Thank you so very much for the tips! That's what I was looking for
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:56 AM   #4
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Your Very Welcome Do some research on the large turnigy motors, you will find they love to throw Magnets, and do some research on the Rimfire motors, you will find they normally dont like other MFG Esc, there has been a lot of discussion on these forums on those issues.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Your Very Welcome Do some research on the large turnigy motors, you will find they love to throw Magnets, and do some research on the Rimfire motors, you will find they normally dont like other MFG Esc, there has been a lot of discussion on these forums on those issues.
Fantastic! Will do the search on that info!

Thank you!
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Electropilot View Post
Fantastic! Will do the search on that info!

Thank you!
To start off with, I'm known for being a $$$$ Hacker motor nut in this website. With that out of the way, here is the info on the E-Flite Power 160 motor. In their specs, they recommend peak motor temperature of 212 degrees F? That will cause second degree burns if you touch the thing.
http://www.atlantahobby.com/store/pc...FY47Mgodn2IAiA

And here is the $$$$ Hacker A60-7S Motor. (Not the A60-XS series motor! This motor has different windings, for different cell count)
http://www.espritmodel.com/hacker-a6...-motor-v2.aspx

Per a phone call to Hacker last year, they recommend a max temperature of 140F or so on the motor case of their motors. You would not be able to hold your fingers on a 140F motor for long. I've got two of the A60 motors, the A60-16M, and the A60-5S. That A60-5S motor uses a one piece hard steel 8 mm prop shaft that goes completely through the motor. From visual appearance, it looks like the shaft is necked down to 8 mm on the prop shaft, but is 10 mm diameter through the inside of the motor, and its ball bearings. This motor is built like a tank. And, neither of these motors were ever much more than lukewarm after a hard flight. Both of these motors have a lot of flights on them, the 16M motor has about 250 flights. I've got two of the Castle Creations 80 Amp HV ESCs. They've been flawless on these A60 motors.

Note that your model has a large diameter cowl on it. These Hacker A60 motors turn a 19X12 APC-E wide blade prop on the recommended battery cell count.
Take a look at the models these motors have been installed in:

Carl Goldburg Extra 330 Electric Conversion (Sold It)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59273

Giant Scale Cessna Model (Sold it)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66414

Great Planes Giant Big Stick Electric Conversion (Still Flying it)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65052

Redwing MXSR Model (Got 12 flights on it before our flying field got a foot of snow on it)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72225

Giant Scale Power System:
Battery Backup System
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63794

Giant Scale electric motors vs Gasoline Engines
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58035

DennyV
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:23 PM   #7
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Yes Denny, You Are a Hacker Motor Nut, But we Still love You LOL, Hacker Motors are some of the Best of the Best Motors out there, If you have the Money, Buy a Hacker motor I would never run my motors at 212 Degrees make sure not to over prop a motor to run that Hot Take care and have fun, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:47 PM   #8
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You guys are great! Thanks very much for all the great info!
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Yes Denny, You Are a Hacker Motor Nut, But we Still love You LOL, Hacker Motors are some of the Best of the Best Motors out there, If you have the Money, Buy a Hacker motor I would never run my motors at 212 Degrees make sure not to over prop a motor to run that Hot Take care and have fun, Chellie
Hi Chellie
Thanks I needed that!

As for that 220F maximum rating on that motor, methinks there is not much room between 220F and magic smoke. Keep in mind the motor windings are likely much hotter than 220F on the motor bell housing.

We used Formvar wire at work before retiring. This wire is top of the line stuff. Its rated for 100 hours life at 200 degrees C. And, many thousands of hours at 100C. We were buying this wire in 30 and 100 pound spools. Removing the varnish insulation on this Formvar wire is a real pain in the ***. Much much harder to remove than the varnish on some of those brushless motors.
http://www.reawire.com/Products/Magn...S/Default.aspx

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