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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 10-08-2011, 06:27 AM   #1
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Default Mini 50mm EDF series models from Hobbyking

I think they are produced by Skyangels ?

Anyway ... I see the series ... F-16, F-86, Mig 15, F-18, F-9, A4 .... the list is quite long and all seem to be under the ~$60 mark + shipping.

What attracts me is the size, handy to throw in back of car, PnP as I don't like Spektrum and prefer my own choice of radio, fast and scale like. A collection of these on ground would make an excellent display at a meeting where public get to see us ... and allows 'combat' between 2 pilots in similar scale size.

What I am posting now for - is to get an honest appraisal from anyone who has or has flown one of these - BUT I would like to know about stock out of box - not modified ... (battery size exception)_.....

I'm a reasonable flyer that is not just started out in this hobby and well able to handle any one of them. I'm looking for help to make the choice ...

So what am I looking for ...

a) Good power to weight, so launches / RoG are simple and she goes of well ...
b) Able to loop / aerobat without having to dive / increase power ...
c) Can take optional landing gear / supplied with it ...
d) Wing and tailplane feathers reasonably stiff to resist breaks....
e) Out of box basically performs well and no real need to modify or upgrade power system ...

I have to admit that I like the T-45 in it's original BAe Hawk scheme ... but they don't model that .. they provide the USA version T-45 .. The Hawk is a particular favourite of mine.
As I understand it - the fastest and most flyable are the F-16 and F-18 .. being the lightest and less drag wing etc.
Middle ground is with the Hawk and F-9
Less again is the F-86 and Mig 15 ..
At bottom of power - to weight and flyability I hear is the A4 and A8 ?

So over to actual owners and those who've flown them ... I need your help !!

What do I spend my money on ? (Please don't recc'd other model suppliers as I live in Latvia and Ebay / Hobbyking are about the only sellers I can deal with economically).

Cheers

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Old 10-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #2
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This guy seems to do good honest reviews... I was going to buy one of these a while back though never got around to it. From my research, the F-16 is one of the fastest and also nicest ones to fly, probably owing to its good wing area. Seems to go alright in that video!

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Old 10-08-2011, 03:25 PM   #3
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Agree ... I saw his video a while ago and it really interested me. I like his online review site as well ... pity that some items haven't been updated though. You have to admire him - that he commits his own money to the items.

The F-16 has always been a fav of mine ... funny actually ... I'm presently in Singapore on assignment. Each day / night - they have pairs of F-16's doing patrol of S'pore airspace ...

Still like the Hawk / T-45 though. I'm wondering if removal of box cosmetics and repaint in Red Arrows / RAF colours would add weight or degrade performance ... I don't think so if rubbed back and then airbrushed carefully.

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Old 10-09-2011, 02:29 AM   #4
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OK .. so no-ones flying cheap EDF's .......... you're all flying expensive EDF's way out of my league ...

Surprised at lack of replies .........

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Old 10-10-2011, 05:43 PM   #5
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I 've got the whole fleet of them. They are an outrageous value and perfect size.

The F-86 Sabre is the slowest. Must be the fat, draggy airframe. Some of these jets suffer from a tail incidence problem where the fixed portion of the elevators have a slight up reflex built into them. This means you'll either have to fix the incidence when you build them or fly them a bit more nose heavy. The MIG 15 for example, has the incidence problem. I chose not to fix it, stuck a 1300 mAh 3s lipo and 7g of lead in the nose and it flys like a champ. I run some of these jets with landing gear, some as hand launched belly floppers.

The stock motor and fan can be run on 4s as long as some throttle management takes place. The stock ESC can also handle 4s, again with some throttle management. If you run 4s, I would advise not using the internal BEC but change to an external one. This give the ESC a little more headroom. I also advise balancing the rotor and making sure the fan housing is concentric. These tend to grenade if left unbalanced or there is any rotor to housing contact.

Mine are set up to run an 800 mAh 4s lipo, with the exception of the F-86 and F-16. both of those have such a small battery compartment that some serious modification would need to take place and I just didn't feel like doing it. I think ultimately, the F-86 will need to be modified as it's a proverbial snail in the air compared to the others. The F-16 does fine on 3s, I suppose 4s would make it even more fine. I can also run a 1000 mAh 3s lipo in all of them as the closest thing to stock. The only 2 I haven't picked up yet are the F8/A-7 (whatever it is, it's sort of a cross) and the A-6. I'll have them pretty soon. There are two more due out in fairly short order, the Mirage 2000 and the JAS 39.

The two twin 50mm jets, the A-10 and SU-37 haven't been added to my hanger yet. The SU-34 suffered from some thin wings and warped componants, the A-10 was a bit heavy and could use a motor upgrade for it's weight and drag (along with a spar for the wing). Eventually I'll work my way towards those if they are still available.

Here are just a few videos....

Mig 15 (3s power)


A-4 (3s power)


T-45 (4S power)


F-22 (4S power)


This is just a handful of video clips, the jets are so addicting that I've spent way more time flying than actually doing video flights.

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Old 10-12-2011, 04:50 AM   #6
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At last ... cheers for a great reply.

I finally this morning ordered the T-45 EPO ARF from Hobby King ...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=13427

I chose that one as it seemed from the youtubes etc. to be middle range speed / power of the mini jets. I noted various reviews that the F-86 and Mig 15 were slow ... shame as I live in Latvia, former Soviet state and fancied the Mig.
There is another reason for the T-45 ... as it's the USA version of the BAe Hawk trainer ... I wanted to sand of the US navy scheme and replace with UK's Red Arrows colours.

It also looks to me as a model that can take upgrade ... I plan to fly stock with 3S ... I have loads of 3S LiPo's ... ranging from 1000 up to 2800 at 3S ... and once happy with the model ... upgrade to gain more power and speed.

I assume that will need new fan possibly a 55mm and a higher KV motor ... along with 4S, ESC etc.

The full size Hawk / T-45 is faster than most people realise and I hope to emulate that later. It's a pretty plane unlike most military jets today.

I note you reckon they have the Mirage 2000 coming ... I had a couiple of large Glow powered 2000's years ago. High speed - they were great show stoppers in the air, but slowed down - that big delta wing used to wallow around as you pulled nose up more and more .... landing was a slam dunk affair and I often bent the front leg right back into the belly. Buit of course these were heavy 61 powered jobs ...

Cheers and I'm really interested in any ideas to mod / upgrade / improve the T-45 I have ....

I noted that you have a 4S and 30A ESC fitted into yours ... and landing gear. Have you flown it with standard stock set-up 3S and landing gear ? I have like you road surface available for T/O and landing ... in fact it's a full size runway of locak airport. Nice to use it instead of hand launches.

Nigel

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Old 10-12-2011, 06:32 AM   #7
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Out of interest .... any idea what the stock motor KV is ? I can't find any reference to it anywhere .............

Cheers
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:29 AM   #8
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OK ... found another web link to them and they use a stock 4200KV motor ...

So next question is what to replace it with ... and lets say we keep the stock 50mm fan ... would an inrunner be better than an outrunner ... could the fan take more KV .. I assume it can if you run a 4S through it. I'm looking at 5000KV and up motors ...

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Old 10-13-2011, 02:57 PM   #9
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The stock motor is actually 4300 kV.





The stock motor and fan can be used on 4s if the impeller is balanced and has adequate clearance from the shroud. When i get one, I first make sure the shroud is concentric. Some are warped right out of the box. Then, I make sure the impeller blades have adequate clearance and will not rub. I'm not a fan of running an impeller in the housing to let it grind it's way clear. Then, I balance the impeller. The fan isn't the most sturdy, some blow apart with only 3s voltage, some last for a considerable time on 4s.

the most popular upgrade is a 50mm wemo micro fan. With that, a 4800-5000 Kv motor on 4S is really nice, or a 6000 kV motor on 3s. once can also fit a 55mm fan in some of these as well. an XF fan with a 4500 kV outrunner is a blast on 4s. There is also a himaxx 50mm motor and fan that comes already balanced that is popular with some. There is also a 6 blade fan from HK that can be modified for use with these motors that is considerably more durable than the stock fan and amp draw is pretty close to the stock fan. http://www.toysonics.com/1.97inch-50...-fan-unit.html

The beauty is that these jets are relatively cheap in price and a good value. They are durable and easy to transport with plenty of models to choose from.

I've flown the T-45 and A-4 with the supplied landing gear, they work fine with no drama. I will say though, 4S voltage wakes these up a bit. In the videos I posted above, the A-4 is done with a stock ESC, Stock motor and fan, landing gear and a 1000 mAh 3s 25C lipo. I run that on 4s sometimes, but I am carful to not fly it wide open. The factory speed control can take 4s but not for wide open the whole time. The T-45 used the stock motor and fan, hobbywing 30A esc and can be flown with either a 1000 mAh 3s 25C or a 4s 800 mAh 30C.

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Old 10-14-2011, 02:14 AM   #10
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It's funny .. I went to 2 online sites that had the Mini T-45 and both said 6 blade fan + 4200KV ... so it appears that there may be 2 versions ... your link gives 5 blade fan + 4300KV

mmmmmmmm I have seen a link to a guy who fitted a higher KV of 5000 and a 7 blade fan ... now that to me is counter ? I would have thought reduce blade number and up KV ... otherwise power draw is going to be much higher with heat and all sorts of problems.

I can't wait to have it in hand and get flying ......... even as stock with 3S - it appears to be a good machine.

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Old 10-14-2011, 02:20 AM   #11
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I've flown the T-45 and A-4 with the supplied landing gear
I didn't think the T-45 came with landing gear ? Did you buy from HK or from another ?

I am thinking that if the model is good enough ... I may up power and use that to carry retracts as well. Nothing worse than a jet dangling wheels when in flight. It's ok on a Cessna ... but a military jet ?

I'm not a fan (forgive pun !) of belly landings and hand launches. I like ROG and proper roll outs ...

What do you think the stock fan can take max on KV / rpm ?

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Old 10-14-2011, 02:29 AM   #12
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Skyangel T-45 Navy Trainer 50mm PNP

/images/T45w-m.jpg
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  • Item #: SK08ARF
  • Manufacturer: Skyangel
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* Marked fields are required. Qty*Price$159.99Sale Price$99.99Adjusted Price$159.99AvailabilityIn-Stock# Available
The Skyangel T-45 Navy Trainer 50mm edf gives fast performance in a compact size perfect for any flying field or park. The T-45 Navy Trainer offers very stable flight characteristics. Big things do come in small packages when you get a Skyangel edf plane. They offer high speed performance in a small platform. Small enough to fit into a duffle bag for easy transportation and storage. This small jet packs a lot of punch for the price and size. The Skyangel line of jets offer fully aerobatic flight performance. This jet can be hand launched or use the Mini-Jetapult to get it into the air. Flight time is around 5-7 minutes on recommended li-po battery.
SPECIFICATIONS:
  • Wing Span: 23 1/4" / 590mm
  • Length: 20 1/2" / 700mm
  • Flying Weight: 11 3/5 oz/ 330 g.
  • Transmitter: 4 channel
  • Functions: Ailerons, Elevator, Throttle
ITEMS INCLUDED:
  • Airframe: EPO Foam
  • 50mm Fan Unit (Installed)
  • 4200kv Brushless Motor (Installed)
  • 20 amp esc (Installed)
  • 8g servos (Installed)
  • 3S 850 mAh 20C Li-Po Battery
REQUIRED ITEMS FOR COMPLETION:
  • Transmitter/Receiver with mixing
  • Li-Po charger

Daft price !! I always find it amazing that same article can vary so much in price. Does anyone ever check out the competitors pricing ? I got mine from HK with an extra FrSky RX as well for just over $100 total ... incl. delivery to Latvia.

Anyway ... you can see there the ref. to 4200KV

Question ... why does it need mixing on the TX ? I thought this was a basic aileron + elevator model ... not linked as in the F-16 etc.

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Old 10-14-2011, 04:23 PM   #13
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Let me clear some things up.

Jpower is the manufacturer of these jets. They are rebranded under various names like Skyangel, Exceed, Venom, Hobbyking, adnausium.
JPower produces a 4300 kV motor and a 5 blade fan for these jets. That's all they produce. If some distributer decided to buy a load of airframes, it's possible that their own power system has been added. I highly doubt it or I would know about it. there is a huge thread on these jets on RCGroups with over 804,000 hits that I am active on and I get my information from the manufacturer. Hobby King does sell a seperate 6 blade fan, but again.... I doubt that they substituted the 6 blade fan as it requires modification to work with the JPower motor. I do know that hobby king is known to use their own speed controls which have a little less headroom, they have been known to cook on 4s volttages where JPower, Venom and a few others can live on 4s.

Judging by the horrid descriptions by some overseas vendors, it's probable that they don't proof their information before publishing specs on a website or they misquote something in a translation. They cut and paste descriptions for other products and assume they apply to something else. It's laughable. Besides, if you actually look at all the pictures on the link you provided, it CLEARLY shows a 5 blade impeller on the fan.

Anyway, take it to the bank... the info I furnished comes from the manufacturer and not some distributer. There are some differences in whether a model is provided with landing gear or not. There are a few instances where a certain rebrand for a distributer might not include landing gear or may have an alternate paint scheme. The t-45 in question, has a few paint schemes and uses 3 servos. two for aileron and one for rudder. None of the models have a steerable nose wheel unless you do the mod yourself. the T-45 does not require mixing fuctions but expo and rates will be handy........ evidence that the distributer simply copies and pastes without knowing their butt from a hole in the ground. The models that will require mixing are the F-16, F-18, F-22, F-35, AMX. They will require elevon mixing as they only use two servos. The rest of the line has dedicated aileron and elevator servos. The new Delta wing jets will need elevon mixing as well.


As far as ducted fans go, they are similar to props. The more blades and the more pitch, the more load on a motor. So yes, going with a 7 blade fan will increase the amp draw. Performance and sound may be better but there will be a cost and that is watts consumed.

Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

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Old 10-18-2011, 12:07 AM   #14
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Thanks guys for the informative info on EDF's here. I'm looking to dive-in to EDF's but don't want to break the bank. I know you " get what you pay for" and if money were no object, I'd go for quality over price. Been flying foamie pusher prop park jets for a while now but I'm a complete newbie when it comes to EDF's . Our club Pres has a beautiful Phase 3 F-16 which is in the upper quality range like E-flight. North of $ USD 300.00


I have a hankering for the iconic F-4 Phantom. NitroPlanes advertizes a 70mm Airfield ARF Camo version for USD $125.00. http://www.nitroplanes.com/93a04-air...-camo-arf.html . I have the Airfield Cessna 182 and the quality was surprizingly good. Seems like they make fairly good EPP planes. I can simply add my futaba TX and RX and a
14.8V/2100MAH/20C lipo and I'm off and flying- well, hopefully...


Also looking at the Kyosho version. A smaller EDF 55mm.


Fly off a grass field so it would great if I could find one with retracts so I can hand launch and land with gear down on grass.

Any recommendations? Is the F4 Phantom too much to handle as a first EDF? I figured if I total something a bit cheaper, then at least it won't be the end of the world.

Thoughts?

Hawk
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:54 AM   #15
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For what its worth, I'm a fan of the 50 mm F/A-18. It is easy to fly provided you can give it a good initial toss. It is fast, roll rate is ridiculous, and flies well enough on approach to make a nice, soft touch down upon landing.

My problem is, I can't give it a solid enough left-handed toss to be consistent with my launches.

All of my landings are three point landings if you count the spinner, too
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:15 AM   #16
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Thanks Earthsciteach !,

I like the F-18 Super Hornet also. I'll give it a look. Is there a particular mfg. you like for the 50mm? My heart is still with the Wild Weasel F-4 Phantom. Maybe because I'm a Vietnam era guy.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:15 AM   #17
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Its the JPowers sold by both BananaHobby and Hobbyking.

All of my landings are three point landings if you count the spinner, too
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by earthsciteach View Post
Its the JPowers sold by both BananaHobby and Hobbyking.
You're right to an extent ... but your previous post about J Powers implied that Skyangel REBRANDS their goods ............ not exactly correct ...

Try this page :

http://www.skyangelrc.com/About-skyanel.htm

You'll see that SKYANGEL does actually produce the models in question and it is J Powers as the parent GROUP that then sells on etc. Just a teeny weeny bit different from what you posted ... ?

But yes ... HK and others do rebrand / relabel them ...


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Old 11-07-2011, 06:24 PM   #19
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Well now I've received my T-45 Hawk ... and I like it immediately ....

I made a small modification of enlarging the battery area to take a larger pack ... but then found CoG was so far fwd it was on the L/E !!

I put a 1000mAh 3S in and that was way fwd ....

Manual gives 50mm back from wing to fuselage joint. The 1000 pack puts it about 20mm back from wing to fus joint.The pack I wanted to fit ... 1800mAh 3S puts it on the L/E ....

I really do not fancy adding weight to the tail .... so planned larger pack is not going to happen ...

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Old 11-08-2011, 03:35 PM   #20
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I am a bit annoyed that model is difficult to assign a larger LiPo ........ and balance CofG is designed for the 850mAh Lipo ....

I put a 1000mAh and no way could I get near to manuals CofG ... the 1800 I want to use puts CofG so far forward ..... I added 32gr to tail to get even a 'docile' CofG ......... even this is a bit too forward for my liking.

Hot landings in store I reckon !!

I have to say though - out of box the EDF is strong !

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Old 11-08-2011, 06:19 PM   #21
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Well now that I've put one together and seen the set-up .... I cannot get it balanced.

I have inserted a tube to allow suspension of model to balance whatever LiPo I use ...







Which has led to 32grams at tail end to balance out ...... with a 1800mAh 3S LiPo ......... I have 1300 and 800mAh LiPo's on order for this machine - so hope that this will improve this ...

The weights are removeable easily .... so can be arranged as needed.

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Old 11-09-2011, 12:20 PM   #22
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the T-45 (stock fan and motor, 30A esc) balances perfectly with an 800 mAh 4s.

Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:57 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Joe 1320 View Post
the T-45 (stock fan and motor, 30A esc) balances perfectly with an 800 mAh 4s.
Hi Joe ....

I've got some 800 3S packs on the way .... I see the specs suggest 20C ... well I have a couple at 20C and a couple at 30C ... I also have some 1300's on the way ... I noted that various reviews / posts other places say they have flown on 1300 packs fine.

I noted that my 1000mAh 20C packs didn't produce the RPM that my 1800mAh 25C packs did. I know the 20C packs are my oldest and usually only used in low power park-fly prop stuff.... so I assume they may be old and tired.

Joe - what sort of run time do you get on 800mAh ?

When you say balances perfectly - I note that book says slightly nose down when balanced ... any estimate on how much nose down ?

I hope to maiden the T-45 this weekend with the 800 pack in her ... which hopefully means no added ballast ...

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Old 03-13-2012, 01:49 AM   #24
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Hi Guys, Just joining in on this conversation. I have the A-4 and Mig-15. Both are stock on 3 cells. The A-4 has about 80 flites on it and flys fantastic. It will fly circles around the Mig. The Mig can have some nasty stall/ spin surprises during a climbing left turn at less than full throttle. I have yet to find any bad flite issues with the A-4. The A-4 launches very easily, the Mig not so much. The A-4 can easily handle 15-20 mph winds.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Insomniac View Post

This guy seems to do good honest reviews... I was going to buy one of these a while back though never got around to it. From my research, the F-16 is one of the fastest and also nicest ones to fly, probably owing to its good wing area. Seems to go alright in that video!
My buddy has has the f-16 but he put in aftermarket parts, wemotec edf unit with a hi powered 3s set up, I have flown it and its super fast, pushing 90mph fast and that make a 50mm edf size plane get really small really fast...especially since he has the thunderbird paint scheme and I was fllying on an overcast day. Anyways I don't know much about the stock power system but flies like a champ on an upgraded balanced unit.

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