Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Beginners New to e-power flying? Get the low down in here from experienced e-power RC pilots!

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2014, 11:36 PM   #1
DavidR8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 234
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default First aileron flight

I added ailerons to my Super Cub over the past week. Took her out for my first flight with ailerons.

All in all,it went well. Very calm day but had a couple of holy crap moments when a gust came out of the blue and basically sent her nose up into a stall. I think she's a tad tail heavy.

Despite the number of hours on the sim, flying in the real world is different.

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
DavidR8 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 01:15 AM   #2
goodwrench00
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mena,AR
Posts: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Club: Mena RC Club
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post
I added ailerons to my Super Cub over the past week. Took her out for my first flight with ailerons.

All in all,it went well. Very calm day but had a couple of holy crap moments when a gust came out of the blue and basically sent her nose up into a stall. I think she's a tad tail heavy.

Despite the number of hours on the sim, flying in the real world is different.
I did ailerons AND flaps on my SC. Flies good with low rates and some expo. Flaps I'm not too sure about, too windy to try much.
goodwrench00 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 10:59 PM   #3
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,406
Thanked 351 Times in 312 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Just remember that as you apply flaps the nose will have a tendency to come up do to the higher lift of the wing. Be prepared to apply some down elevator to compensate.

Practice using flaps up high, not near the ground.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 12:23 AM   #4
DavidR8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 234
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

My intent is to become aileron-saavy on the Super Cub before I move onto flying my Fun Cub.

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
DavidR8 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 01:22 AM   #5
goodwrench00
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mena,AR
Posts: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Club: Mena RC Club
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Just remember that as you apply flaps the nose will have a tendency to come up do to the higher lift of the wing. Be prepared to apply some down elevator to compensate.

Practice using flaps up high, not near the ground.
I do have a flap/elev mix setup and have been staying "2mistakes high" while trying flaps.
goodwrench00 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 01:26 AM   #6
goodwrench00
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mena,AR
Posts: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Club: Mena RC Club
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post
My intent is to become aileron-saavy on the Super Cub before I move onto flying my Fun Cub.
I love to fly the cub, I have several faster planes but go back to the cub. Nothing like pointing into the wind and just floating! Ailerons do make it more responsive, in my opinion. Have fun with it!
goodwrench00 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 02:17 AM   #7
Dragonflyer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 98
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Good deal David, you are doing what I did way back in the '70's. I had bought a Goldberg Ranger 42 and installed all four channels in it. I crashed, fixed, crashed, fixed and so on and so on, until it was shot. Then I decided to build a plain and simple rudder/elevator airplane with a foam wing. I learned to fly with that airplane. After I got pretty good with on it with just rudder. Then I decided to add ailerons to it and the rest is history. I had learnt flying with ailerons.
I am glad to hear you are going the way you are. So many learn the hard way with ailerons right off the bat. There is a learning curve to flying RC.
You can always go back by simply reversing the rudder aileron servo plugs on the receiver. Just make sure the ailerons are centered then tape them.
My first RC was A Goldberg 1/2A Skylane, rudder only. Now that was fun !!!
DF aka Bill
Dragonflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 06:12 PM   #8
maxflyer
Member
 
maxflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 253
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

While this video mostly represents my latest attempts at producing a video, it also represents my somewhat outdated view on how to go about learning to fly RC. Your mileage will vary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c6KrYifscQ
maxflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 07:21 PM   #9
Dragonflyer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 98
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Nice job Max, great video. If you build it it will fly. Big wing, take off slow in <20 ft. That is exactly the way I did it. Using your head for something other than holding your ears apart.
DF aka Bill

PS: Also liked the Avatar, wings level & climbing.
Dragonflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 09:25 PM   #10
maxflyer
Member
 
maxflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 253
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Thanks. It may, or may not interest you to note that, I am flying at 7000' MSL.

PS. Avatar is an ATTITUDE indicator. My attitude is oftentimes curmudgeonly.
maxflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 09:36 PM   #11
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 1,252
Thanked 84 Times in 82 Posts
Club: AMA, Marks, Pomona Valley, Prado Dam
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default

Very well done maxflyer.....$60.00...(without power system I assume)....not bad!

AMA 928214
pizzano is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 10:48 PM   #12
Dragonflyer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 98
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

In the full size biplane I built there were times the blue was on the bottom and the brown on top.
DF aka Bill
Dragonflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 11:24 PM   #13
maxflyer
Member
 
maxflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 253
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

$60 includes the gear (except for battery). Roughly...Less than $20 each for the motor, ESC, and clone Hitec 4CH Rx, plus three 9G servos. Maybe $2-3 worth of foam. Probably closer to $65 including the fancy wheels. Won't hold inverted, likely due to the KF3 airfoil, but it wasn't intended to be an aerobat. It's on it's second wing, and the breakaway nose has been glued back on at least twice. I prefer to have the nose give way instead of destroying the motor and prop.
maxflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 05:33 PM   #14
DavidR8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 234
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default Silly question

Originally Posted by maxflyer View Post
$60 includes the gear (except for battery). Roughly...Less than $20 each for the motor, ESC, and clone Hitec 4CH Rx, plus three 9G servos. Maybe $2-3 worth of foam. Probably closer to $65 including the fancy wheels. Won't hold inverted, likely due to the KF3 airfoil, but it wasn't intended to be an aerobat. It's on it's second wing, and the breakaway nose has been glued back on at least twice. I prefer to have the nose give way instead of destroying the motor and prop.
It's a very slick design, did you build your trainer from plans?

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
DavidR8 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 06:52 PM   #15
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,511
Thanked 495 Times in 461 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Personally I'm not sure what the fuss is about when people talk about learning to fly with ailerons. personally I don't think ailerons are inherently any harder to fly with than the same plane that has rudder only.

The main things that make a plane easy to fly are:
  1. Slow fling speed
  2. High stability.
Having ailerons has no detrimental effect on either of these things.

What usually makes planes that have ailerons harder to fly is not the ailerons themselves but the overall design of the plane. Often aileron equipped planes are faster flying and less stable, but that's nothing directly to do with the ailerons.

I taught my flying buddy to fly on an aileron equipped trainer, which did the job just fine.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 08:25 PM   #16
maxflyer
Member
 
maxflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 253
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I think the aileron challenge simply involves the fact that there is now another control and another axis involved. The inclusion of ailerons to the mix implies that you must now know how to implement COORDINATED flight. I have always said it's harder to fly an RC model than it is to fly a real airplane. The challenge comes from NOT being inside the aircraft, and the only feedback you get is visual. The game simply consists of learning how to make particular control inputs with your hands, that result in an expected visual response from the aircraft. Flying with "reversed control inputs" as the aircraft is coming towards you is not natural. It's a learned response. It requires development of motor control skills that become second nature. It involves getting past the point where one has to conciously THINK about everything they do.

On a 3CH model you are essentially controlling the aircraft's position with a single hand. The addition of ailerons moves one of the essential orientation controls to the OTHER hand. The other hand now has more to think about than throttle control. Yes, a fast, responsive airplane can get waay ahead of the unskilled, but I think it's primarily a matter of developing muscle memory. I think we've all had the experience of watching a model drill itself into the Earth while we are still thinking about which controls should be doing what.

In spite of what is sometimes claimed, I think it's easier for real pilots to fly RC because we already fully understand the purpose and function of all the controls. We just have to take time to develop the muscle memory. I don't think it takes a novice much time to realize that having ailerons actually INCREASES options and control. It doesn't just add difficulty.

The Driveway Diva was not built from plans. The airframe components are very basic (sophistication is not necessary for flight). The proportions could be taken from any number of factory airplanes, or even free-flight designs. The Driveway Diva's primary purpose was simply to get my muscle memory to the place I have described earlier. You later realize that it's just simple fun to fly when you want a bit of airtime without the stress of worrying about a "pretty" or expensive airplane.
maxflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 08:39 PM   #17
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,511
Thanked 495 Times in 461 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

I know many RC flyers who have flown aileron for decades and never touch the rudder except for take off. While I'm not advocating this as a good idea, on most planes it's perfectly possible to do it.

So really flying aileron, at least once you are off the ground, doesn't have to be any different at all to rudder only. You can still fly by just using the right stick. Even for those planes that really need some rudder coordination (not any trainer I know of ) you can program a mix in the Tx.

FWIW I agree with you that if you have rudder and ailerons you should get used to coordinating both, but on most models it's not a necessity.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 09:26 PM   #18
maxflyer
Member
 
maxflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 253
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Yes, we get away with a lot in the model world. The Driveway Diva does just fine without rudder (the large arrow-like tail, and slight dihedral probably contribute to that). Rules seem to matter little at this scale. Still, being a trained pilot, I am too aware of what uncoordinated flight does to real airplanes and usually want to bring that training into the model world as well. The airplane doesn't give a hoot, but I do.
maxflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 01:16 AM   #19
DavidR8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 234
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Just back from a two-pack flying session. Would have flown my other two packs but is was 32 degrees and the wind was picking up.

I think my apprehension is the move from 3 ch to 4 ch. Even though I'm flying exactly the same plane I was expecting that adding ailerons was suddenly going to make it much less stable, self-righting etc.

It was none of those things. Stick left, bank left, a bit of up elevator and around she went.

When I added some rudder into the mix (manually), it really changed how it turned: nicely banked, tail in line, arcing turns.

I was directly behind the plane on a few turns without rudder and the 'dragging the tail' effect was obvious.

I don't have any aileron differential programmed in but I might do that to reduce the adverse yaw.

Lining up for landings was very challenging though. I was either too short or too long. Never did reach the point where I was lining it up and bring it in as though I was using a runway.

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
DavidR8 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 01:45 AM   #20
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 1,252
Thanked 84 Times in 82 Posts
Club: AMA, Marks, Pomona Valley, Prado Dam
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default

Are you referring to the super cub....?

"Just back from a two-pack flying session. Would have flown my other two packs but is was 32 degrees and the wind was picking up.

I think my apprehension is the move from 3 ch to 4 ch. Even though I'm flying exactly the same plane I was expecting that adding ailerons was suddenly going to make it much less stable, self-righting etc.

It was none of those things. Stick left, bank left, a bit of up elevator and around she went.

When I added some rudder into the mix (manually), it really changed how it turned: nicely banked, tail in line, arcing turns.

I was directly behind the plane on a few turns without rudder and the 'dragging the tail' effect was obvious.

I don't have any aileron differential programmed in but I might do that to reduce the adverse yaw.

Lining up for landings was very challenging though. I was either too short or too long. Never did reach the point where I was lining it up and bring it in as though I was using a runway."


Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post
I added ailerons to my Super Cub over the past week. Took her out for my first flight with ailerons.

All in all,it went well. Very calm day but had a couple of holy crap moments when a gust came out of the blue and basically sent her nose up into a stall. I think she's a tad tail heavy.

Despite the number of hours on the sim, flying in the real world is different.
Seems like progress...curious how much dihedral your'e flying with...?...to little/to much will have an impact on aileron authority.......especially on that cub.

AMA 928214
pizzano is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 02:26 AM   #21
DavidR8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 234
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
Are you referring to the super cub...

/snipped/

Seems like progress...curious how much dihedral your'e flying with...?...to little/to much will have an impact on aileron authority.......especially on that cub.
Yes it was my Super Cub.

The dihedral measures an 1" and 1/8 +/- on the wing tips. I have no idea what that stock measurement is.

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
DavidR8 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 05:30 AM   #22
Dragonflyer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 98
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Perfectly coordinated rudder, aileron, elevator.
DF aka Bill
Dragonflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 05:49 AM   #23
DavidR8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 234
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default That is amazing

Originally Posted by Dragonflyer View Post
Perfectly coordinated rudder, aileron, elevator.
DF aka Bill
I have trouble filling a glass using a pitcher at the best of times!

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

Champ, Super Cub, Fun Cub
DavidR8 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 07:23 PM   #24
maxflyer
Member
 
maxflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 253
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I avoid differential. I never want to forget the proper and necessary inputs for coordinated flight. Differential makes for....."lazy piloting." I might consider adding a bit during flap deployments, simply because it keeps me from having to fumble for another switch on my TX, and having to take my one good eye off the aircraft. It's not hard to become a bit Ho-Hum about model flying as it is. Simplifying the flight duties is likely to make me bored with it all that much sooner.
maxflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 08:22 PM   #25
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,511
Thanked 495 Times in 461 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

FWIW many full size 'real' planes use differential.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
B-47 9th Scale, Boeing Stratojet...In The Middle Flite-Metal Electric Ducted Fan Jets 265 11-10-2014 07:46 PM
Extreme Flight Extra 300 EXP__Clean Sheet Doc Austin 3D Flying 5 01-05-2013 04:19 AM
Extreme Flight 48" MXS__Something Completely Different Doc Austin 3D Flying 2 11-27-2011 08:03 AM
Anyone interested in a Longest Flight Contest? AEAJR Hi-Performance and Sailplanes 26 07-23-2011 04:27 AM
Checking CG in flight? DanWard 3D Flying 14 04-15-2011 01:41 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:17 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.35424 seconds with 71 queries