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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 11-13-2010, 08:36 PM   #1
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Default Just bought Phase 3 F-16, a few questions

I'm sure some of these have been addressed, but the threads are too long to try and comb through.

I'm planning on silking the plane, should I silk the parts individually, or assemble then silk? Also, should I worry about seams when silking (i.e. will they show)? or try to use massive pieces?

I also want to make the belly pan removable so I can access the fan unit. I was thinking of using some rare earth magnets. Will this be strong enough? How many should I use? Also, with the silking, do I still need to add the protective strips on the bottom?

Rudder, should I install one? Is it worth it?

And lastly I'd like to put some missiles on the wing tip. Is there anywhere I can buy some appropriate in size?

I'm sure I'll have some more questions along the way, but thanks in advance.

Matthew - Blue Apple Herps
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:12 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
I'm sure some of these have been addressed, but the threads are too long to try and comb through.

I'm planning on silking the plane, should I silk the parts individually, or assemble then silk? Also, should I worry about seams when silking (i.e. will they show)? or try to use massive pieces?

I silked mine after it was assembled. Of course the hatch and elevators need to be silked separate. I usedone piece for the top of each wing and one piece for the bottom of each wing (4 pieces). The fuselage was done in several pieces and the vertical stab was two more pieces. Seems don't show if you brush them out flat and are careful when blending it all together with WBPU.

I also want to make the belly pan removable so I can access the fan unit. I was thinking of using some rare earth magnets. Will this be strong enough? How many should I use? Also, with the silking, do I still need to add the protective strips on the bottom?

I didn't make mine removable. Depending on the set up and speeds you'll be flying, I wouldn't trust magnets.

Rudder, should I install one? Is it worth it?

I don't think it would be worth the trouble and extra weight but some others might have experience putting one on.

And lastly I'd like to put some missiles on the wing tip. Is there anywhere I can buy some appropriate in size?

Another guy I was talking to at a fly in had missles on his and he was saying he wished he would have left them off because of the extra drag and they were always breaking on belly landings.

I'm sure I'll have some more questions along the way, but thanks in advance.

Hope that helps some.

Tom
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:29 PM   #3
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Yeah, I wasn't sure about the belly pan. I do want to make it removable. What do you think about cutting the piece over the fan and having that be removable with magnets, and then gluing the front and rear part down?

I think I've read some people doing that over on RCG.

Matthew - Blue Apple Herps
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:53 PM   #4
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Hi blue,
Congrats on the sweet bird! Mine's a regular flier.

Tom gave you spot on advise about the silking.

From my point of view, the rudder modification is not needed on this plane. Even in brisk side winds it will slice through and fly pretty much straight.

When I epoxied my belly pan on, I put three small tacks on each side. The epoxy dot was the size of a small pea. I have never had any problems with it coming loose. And if it ever has to come off, there are only those six points to break.

I have thought about missiles as well, but from what Tom replied above I might hold off.


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Old 11-13-2010, 10:56 PM   #5
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The only reason for rudder was I was thinking knife edge.

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Old 11-13-2010, 11:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
The only reason for rudder was I was thinking knife edge.
Oh, Cool Beans!

I'd love to see that video!

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Old 11-14-2010, 03:19 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by max2112 View Post
Hi blue,
Congrats on the sweet bird! Mine's a regular flier.

Tom gave you spot on advise about the silking.

From my point of view, the rudder modification is not needed on this plane. Even in brisk side winds it will slice through and fly pretty much straight.

When I epoxied my belly pan on, I put three small tacks on each side. The epoxy dot was the size of a small pea. I have never had any problems with it coming loose. And if it ever has to come off, there are only those six points to break.
I have thought about missiles as well, but from what Tom replied above I might hold off.

Forgot about that. That's pretty much what I did too.


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Old 11-14-2010, 02:17 PM   #8
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OK, then that's what I'll do. It'll be a while before I upgrade I'm sure. So if I'm silking, do you think I should still add the reenforcement tape on the bottom, or is the silk enough to protect it?

And Tom, I really like the color scheme on yours, how hard is it to keep orientation? I'm still deciding if I want something scale, or just do a "cool" scheme.

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Old 11-14-2010, 03:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
OK, then that's what I'll do. It'll be a while before I upgrade I'm sure. So if I'm silking, do you think I should still add the reenforcement tape on the bottom, or is the silk enough to protect it?

And Tom, I really like the color scheme on yours, how hard is it to keep orientation? I'm still deciding if I want something scale, or just do a "cool" scheme.

Thanks Matthew,

The color scheme can be extremely difficult to track, especially on a gray day. The camo does exactly what it was designed to do. Sometimes the only way I can get oriented is by looking at which way the rudder is pointing to find the top. Since the camo is exactly the same on top and bottom, it keeps me on my toes.

If you put silk and a few coats of WBPU on it, you won't need the reenforcement tape. Now, if you're going to be landing on a hard surface and not grass, then you might want to go ahead and add it. Mine shows virtually no signs of wear on the bottom and has no tape, just silk and WBPU.

Tom
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:32 PM   #10
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i never felt the need for a rudder either. i silked mine in pieces too, try to find a seam at 90 m.p.h.!!!!!!


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Old 11-15-2010, 01:35 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
Thanks Matthew,

The color scheme can be extremely difficult to track, especially on a gray day. The camo does exactly what it was designed to do. Sometimes the only way I can get oriented is by looking at which way the rudder is pointing to find the top. Since the camo is exactly the same on top and bottom, it keeps me on my toes.

If you put silk and a few coats of WBPU on it, you won't need the reenforcement tape. Now, if you're going to be landing on a hard surface and not grass, then you might want to go ahead and add it. Mine shows virtually no signs of wear on the bottom and has no tape, just silk and WBPU.
That's what I figured about orientation. I think I'll probably end up going with more of a "fun" scheme that I'm not worried so much about orientation and have a contrasting top and bottom.

ifly - I really like that leopard print. Like the tiger scheme, but remixed!

OK, one more question on silking, should I sand down the plane to remove all of the "bumps" from the foam? I'm thinking it would give a better finish, but also don't want to start to take off foam and distort the shape of it by too much sanding.

Also, after the initial silk, how many more layers of WBP did you put down. Does it dry pretty smooth or do you end up sanding a whole bunch?

So far the only work I've started is removing the paper covering. Cant wait to get into full swing assembly mode!

Matthew - Blue Apple Herps
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:48 AM   #12
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blueaple,
its a cheetah print not a leopard.. Cheetahs are faster!!
don't sand too much but a little bump removal can't hurt...
spend your time flying them not painting them. if you want a static display model fine build one. but if your gonna fly it, it's gonna get nicked up or worse so don't worry about it!!!!!!!!!!


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Old 11-15-2010, 04:20 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
Yeah, I wasn't sure about the belly pan. I do want to make it removable. What do you think about cutting the piece over the fan and having that be removable with magnets, and then gluing the front and rear part down?

I think I've read some people doing that over on RCG.

Here's a link to aftermarket parts for the P3 F16 .... http://morganmill.com/RC/index.html.
I bought the antenna/skid, the belly pan hold down kit (not used), and the ESC fairing.
The "skid" and ESC fairing are very useful but, I used a different/easier method to hold the belly pan on. I used clear packing tape (scotch or 3m either one) on the outside of the belly pan and fuselage bottom and the used strips of the same tape to hold the pan on. This way, I can peel off the tape strips and remove the belly pan without damaging the foam ...and it holds very well. It hasn't tried to come off once. I have to give credit to a pilot on RCG for this idea ...it works great.

RJ
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:26 PM   #14
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RJ, thanks for the link. I had seen those a while back but had forgotten about them. I think I'll pick up a set.

ESC fairing looks like a nice way to cover wires - maybe I'll get it down the road.

I was thinking just packing tape to cover servo and ESC wires. I figured that would be easier to remove if I ever need to compared to glue. Think that will hold up OK?

Also, just noticed that I have a 5-blade 70mm fan in mine. Not the smaller 55mm. I think they're now shipping them with the Squall EDF units.

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Old 11-15-2010, 04:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
RJ, thanks for the link. I had seen those a while back but had forgotten about them. I think I'll pick up a set.

ESC fairing looks like a nice way to cover wires - maybe I'll get it down the road.

I was thinking just packing tape to cover servo and ESC wires. I figured that would be easier to remove if I ever need to compared to glue. Think that will hold up OK?

Also, just noticed that I have a 5-blade 70mm fan in mine. Not the smaller 55mm. I think they're now shipping them with the Squall EDF units.
Will you be runnning it on a 4S set up? If so, that thing will scoot. Mine is running a 3S with a 64mm fan and a Don's Wicked 4800 motor and it moves along at around 85 mph.

Tom
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:50 PM   #16
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From what I can tell, the 5-blade fan and motor are designed for 3S. There is a 3-blade version and motor designed for 4S. Plus the ESC that came with it is still the standard KMS ESC that will only do 3S.

I also think 4S might burn out the motor. Don's wicked motors are definitely on my radar for a future upgrade. But I figured I'd stick with stock since its my first EDF (at least for now! )

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Old 11-15-2010, 07:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
RJ, thanks for the link. I had seen those a while back but had forgotten about them. I think I'll pick up a set.

ESC fairing looks like a nice way to cover wires - maybe I'll get it down the road.

I was thinking just packing tape to cover servo and ESC wires. I figured that would be easier to remove if I ever need to compared to glue. Think that will hold up OK?

Also, just noticed that I have a 5-blade 70mm fan in mine. Not the smaller 55mm. I think they're now shipping them with the Squall EDF units.

Glad you found something useful at that site. It's good quality stuff and it's "made in the USA".

Packing tape will also remove foam when pulled loosed so do it carefully.

I plan to use good quality packing tape on my next bird (coming Wed.) so, yep, I think it will work fine ....providing you don't cover the ESC. Tape in front and behind it but, be sure the ESC is exposed to the airflow for cooling. For added holding power, you might use a piece of double sided tape on the ESC OR a dab of hot glue (lay a strip of packing tape first). Don't block the hole from the battery tray to the intake area because you need the airflow for cooling.
Be sure to drill the hole in your canopy as the instructions tell you and make sure it's the right size. It is necessary for cooling the battery.
I ordered the "kit" version (no fan or electrics) and stuffed my own 64mm fan, etc. in it. With the 4500kv motor it flies a bit better than the old stock 55mm version. I would imagine that your 70mm version will fly close to the same. My brother just bought one and it came with the 70mm fan and stock motor. He ran it up using a 3s 2200mah 25C batt with a meter attached and it showed 32amps @ 360 watts WOT ....almost identical to my set-up. However, I'm thinking he'll get more thrust due to the larger fan.

If you want more speed with your 70mm and run it on 4s I can recommend this place http://edfhobbies.com/index.php?route=common/home (located in Keller, TX) for a good reliable motor that will perform for you at a reasonable price.

I'll be running a 70mm fan/motor combo (don't know the KV) on a 4s 2200mah 20C battery in the new one and hoping for good results (i.e. more speed ). It should be fun. Hope my old eyes and brain can stay ahead of it.

One more thing ....I used a small strip (approx. 6") of flat carbon fiber (.019X.118) to embed in the foam (placed on edge) at the inside top of the cheater holes (one each side about 1/2" down from the mounting edge on the belly pan) to strengthen that area. That's where you grip it to launch it and it's a week point. I also used fiber reinforced tape around the edges of the cheater holes to protect the foam. It's worked great so far ...no breaking, cracks, chips, etc. in the foam. Very solid now.

RJ
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:57 PM   #18
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Just a little tip to avoid a disaster..... DO NOT USE HOT GLUE TO HOLD DOWN YOUR E.S.C.!!!! USE VELCRO!!! E.S.C.'S GET HOT!!!! HOT MELT GLUE GETS SOFT AT HIGH TEMPS (DUHHHH) I epoxy the velcro to the fuse then epoxy the velcro to the backside of the esc.

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Old 11-16-2010, 12:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by iflyrc1012 View Post
Just a little tip to avoid a disaster..... DO NOT USE HOT GLUE TO HOLD DOWN YOUR E.S.C.!!!! USE VELCRO!!! E.S.C.'S GET HOT!!!! HOT MELT GLUE GETS SOFT AT HIGH TEMPS (DUHHHH) I epoxy the velcro to the fuse then epoxy the velcro to the backside of the esc.

Not if you use high temp hot glue. There is a difference (DUHHHHH).

I've never had a problem with it melting when used on the ESC. The idea is to choose an ESC that will handle the current and not get hot.

Of course, there's not much need for glue if you tape the wires in front of the ESC and behind it and use a little double sided tape to hold the ESC.

RJ
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:07 AM   #20
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you didn't specify using HIGH TEMP hot glue and since this guy is a newbie i thought i'd make it clear.... DUHHHHH!!

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Old 11-16-2010, 01:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by iflyrc1012 View Post
you didn't specify using HIGH TEMP hot glue and since this guy is a newbie i thought i'd make it clear.... DUHHHHH!!
I'm a newbie to EDF, but not the hobby. I'm going to use velcro to hold it down.

Thanks for all of the advice everyone! Started enforcing the tail section tonight. Probably start silking tomorrow.

Matthew - Blue Apple Herps
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:27 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by iflyrc1012 View Post
you didn't specify using HIGH TEMP hot glue and since this guy is a newbie i thought i'd make it clear.... DUHHHHH!!

Why don't you keep your snotty little juvenile comments to yourself. You added nothing to the conversation but, a nasty attitude. If you can't say something nicely, don't say it at all.


Added: My apology to the group for allowing this little troll to drag me down to his level.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:30 AM   #23
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[QUOTE= ..... Started enforcing the tail section tonight. Probably start silking tomorrow.[/QUOTE]


Where can I find "how to" info on silking? I've never seen the process done.

I'm cutting out the plywood reinforcement for beefing up the tail section on my new kit now. Hope to have it ready by the time the bird gets here on Wed.

RJ
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:44 AM   #24
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RJ, here you go. I used this thread here: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22327

I also read up about glassing as well as they're pretty similar. This is the silk I got: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3374-AA.shtml

The place that sells the silk linked in the thread's prices have gone up. So I googled and found identical stuff at this place for a lot less. I got 4 yds, which is going to be more than enough.

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Old 11-16-2010, 02:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste View Post
RJ, here you go. I used this thread here: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22327

I also read up about glassing as well as they're pretty similar. This is the silk I got: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3374-AA.shtml

The place that sells the silk linked in the thread's prices have gone up. So I googled and found identical stuff at this place for a lot less. I got 4 yds, which is going to be more than enough.

Thanks. I appreciate the info and the links. I'll check it out. I assume "WBPU" is "water based polyurethane" and MinWax is a brand of WBPU?
I'm a very real rookie at this type of covering but, if it will toughen up my foamies, I'm willing to try it.

RJ
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