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Old 10-21-2010, 07:06 AM   #1
philbel
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Default e-flite 60-120 electric retracts for 12lb plane?

Hi all,

I just ordered the E-Flite tricycle 60-120 electric retracts to put on a Nitroplanes Cessna 421.

2 Monster Power 46
2 Turnigy Plush 60a
2 FlightMax 5s 4000
12 x 7 3-blade wood prop
Estimated weight: 11,5lb.

The manual says the retracts are good up to 15lb. Will it do the job?

Anyone has them?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:00 AM   #2
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Hi,
I've been watching the development of these kinds of units for a while and to date not found any that would cope with a sufficiently large weight so will be very interested to see how yours go. At the moment I am building well into giant scale area with weight up to near 20lb so not terribly hopeful of anything off the shelf to satisfy.

Having just done a quick search on the web I couldn't find where the weight limit was stated for your expected units.
Neither could I find out whether or not it was possible to slow them down to scale speed - although they are slower than most so-called retract servos would operate. It seems that the only way to alter their speed may be to vary the working voltage. (4.8V - 7.4V is stated in the video I saw, with the upper figure to enable LiPo supplies to be used... I give a raised eyebrow to that as a 2s pack fully charged is a volt higher than that!... probably meant to use a 6V regulator with it.)
Another question I would have would be if the overcurrent protection would allow a large heavier wheel to retract or if the unit would overload.

So many questions - so little cash!

Anyway do please post your experiences... and good fortune to you!

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:41 PM   #3
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I'm anxious to see if these retracts will fit the Cessna 421... The only info I got in my research was their use in 8lb airplanes.

Another question is te need for a UBEC in this project. I have several questions concerning the use of a UBEC.

At the moment, I have many twins (BH Mosquito and OV-1 Mohawk, KMP Twin Otter and Canadair CL-215, etc.) that have more than 5 servos BUT no UBEC. I just disable the BEC of one of the ESC and never had any problem whatsoever. I use telemetry and I always land when the lipos are down to 3,5 - 3,6 volts. So I don't play with fire.

But thie Cessna 421 will use 7 servos (Hitec HS-322) PLUS the tricycle electric retracts so I guess a UEC is a must here.

So how do I install the UBEC (Hobbyking 5a UBEC)??
Do I disable the BEC of the 2 ESCs??

Any help will be welcome!
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:05 PM   #4
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BECs are a constant subject of discussion and the normal answer is that only one BEC should be used.
However, I often use more than one particularly when power splitting is possible. You may be able to power the retract system from one BEC and the rest of the radio system from the other.
What power can the integral BECs supply?
Would it be possible to power all 7 servos from one or would we be better considering a different split?

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:19 PM   #5
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As I now do with all my electric twins, each motor and ESC is feeded with one battery. I disconnect the BEC from one of the ESC and use a Y connector to connect the ESCs to the receiver. I find using 2 lipos on twins is very effective.

Here are the specs for my ESCs:

Cont Current: 60A
Burst Current: 80A
BEC Mode: Switching
BEC : 5v / 3A
Input: 5.6v-22v

Specs of my external BEC:

Output (Constant): 5v/5A or 6v/5A
Input: 8v-42v (3-10cell lipo) High Voltage
Size: 48x27x9mm
Weight: 37g
Quiescent current: 20mA
Type: Switching, however because of the noise reduction (thin metal case & filter) this unit gives the same noise as a Linear BEC.

I read on many threads that the rule is never more than 1 BEC per receiver...

So if I use the HK BEC, sould I disable the 2 BECs on my ESCs and, by the way, if I connect the BEC to the receiver?, where do I connect the servo leads of the 2 ESCs?

I'm a little confused here.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:53 PM   #6
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As your EScs have switching BECs in them I would use BOTH (and not use the uBEC) BUT I would split the positive supply rails. I would suggest using one for the retracts and flap servos and the other for the remainder of the on-board radio (Rx and servos).

The earth connection will be common to both via the two ESCs.
The red wire of one BEC goes to the relevent group of servos.
The signal wire is the only one that needs re-routing from the retracts and flap servos to go direct to the receiver.
That way you have two BECs in operation supplying separate parts of the system.

If that's not clear I'll gladly draw you a diagram.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:24 PM   #7
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Thanks for the info... but what do you mean by:
"I would split the positive supply rails"
and... yes, please send me a diagram if you can.

Much appreciated!
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:27 PM   #8
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I have drawn out a design for a small board that will split the positive (red) supply rails and provide connections for flap servos and the Eflite 3Y connector that will come with your retracts.
The parts required are a small area of Veroboard 8 holes long by 3 strips wide, a defunct PC card with the usual 3 rows of pins, a drill with a bit wide enough to drill out the tracks in the 3 places shown (or cut them out with a knife), and three ends from servo leads. (I have a supply of ones I have destroyed by reverse polarity accidents and such - I expect you may as well!)
Also required are soldering iron and solder sucker, plus long-nosed pliers.

I suppose I am assuming that you are okay with a bit of electrical work.

As you should be able to see from the diagram the red wire from ESC2 goes straight through the board to the Rx while only black and white (/yellow/orange - whatever) connecting to ESC1. The red wire from ESC1 ONLy supplies to Flaps and retracts so the supply rails are split.
Only the white lead connects to the Rx for gear and flaps.

Hope that explains it.


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Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:01 PM   #9
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Euh... I guess your diagram exceeds my knowledge in electrical engeneering...
I'm not sure I can do what you are suggesting.
I'll try to assimilate the info and eventually come back to you for questions.
(Please don't make fun of handicaped people)
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:33 AM   #10
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I would never make fun of anyone!
Any doubts expressed relate to my ability to make clear my intentions.
Have sent you a PM.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:43 PM   #11
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Just kidding...
I received the E-Flite electric retracts yesterday. They look pretty strong. The Main gear fits perfectly but the other 2 will need ajustment.
I'll keep you posted
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:02 AM   #12
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Are the trunnions (cam) made of aluminum? Let's see some photos...
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:25 PM   #13
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phil, yes do keep us posted. I'm still waiting on the rotating versions of these for my Top Flite Corsair. Hopefully they will soon come out, otherwise it looks like I'll have to go LADO or send out a set of regular retracts to DOWN AND LOCKED to be converted to electric units.


As for your other question, about the bec/ubec. If you use a stand alone bec or ubec, you disconnect both bec's from the esc's. The bec can be plugged into any open socket on the rx or installed on a Y harness to any other servo lead.

eye4wings, I just switched over to a Multiplex EVO tx, amazing what it can do. One of it's features is a built in servo slow down. I can dial in anywhere from none to 6 seconds of time for a servo to go from neutral to full throw.

Works really great on items such as flaps, and could easily be used to slow down retracts.

When I die, I want to go like my Grandfather did, in his sleep...... Not screaming like the passengers in his plane.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:38 PM   #14
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glacier Girl,
presumably the tx slow-down function only works if the servo it has to work with is NOT a retract servo?
I have just bought a high power servo from GiantCod for under 10 (Towardpro 946 - 12kg/cm) which I imagine would work well in that situation. I bought it to power rudder, steerable noseleg and flaperons on my new 1:4 model but your Multiplex tx would presumably work with it well if I used it for retracts.
Interesting info - thanks.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:10 PM   #15
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Just for you I ran out in the shop to check it out. You are correct, with a retract servo the delay feature only slows down the time before the servo operates, but does NOT slow it's speed down. With a regular servo the delay DOES slow down the speed.

When I die, I want to go like my Grandfather did, in his sleep...... Not screaming like the passengers in his plane.
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:07 PM   #16
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After looking more closely, I realize I will have to make changes to the Cessna 421 frame to accept the electric retracts. The problem is the front tricycle gear is not centered and the two wing retracts are too high. I will have tu cut into the ply and balsa to be able to install them. But hey, these are very strong tetracts, they are slow and scale when they move and they are the best I've seen so far for this kind of airplane.
I will have to wait until Spring to continue the work cause I'm leaving outside the country for 2 months. I promise I'll send some pictures during installation. This Cessna will be the best looking airplane in my hangar. See you guys!
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:24 PM   #17
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Phil,
All very well having strong retracts - I keep hearing about retracts tearing out of ARTFs due to bearers not being well enough supported. It will be well worth checking when you do the instal that the bearers span enough ribs not to let you down and rip out.
Have a good trip and hear from you in the spring!
Spring... now there's something to look forward to!

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:12 AM   #18
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Default Cessna 421 Almost Ready to Fly!

Hi all,
After more t
han 3 months out of the country, I'm back to my workshop and the last thing I have to do with the Cessna 421 is to fit the electrical landing gear. Everyone I showed them to were surprised of their low speed and the quality of construction. But I will need some work to fit them on this plane.

I have upgraded the ESCs with Turnigy 85a and I will try a bigger prop.

Tests to come soon. I definitely want this bird in the air in the Spring... That's end of April. I'll keep you posted.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:35 AM   #19
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Cool, do let us know how they go, I'd like some for a 12lb spitfire.
Cheers
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:23 AM   #20
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Ah yes! Doesn't time fly when you're having fun!?

Is the Cessna flying now Philbel?... and what about those pictures?

In the meantime I have tested the 3-channel servo slow device from HK, which despite complete absence of instructions seems to work well on my Pe-2 with digital servos (which has got sidelined yet again by an even more absorbing type! - will it ever get finished?).

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:31 PM   #21
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I am going to see if I can use the e-flite 60-120 retracts replacing the air retracts for a pw-rc B-17

Looking at drawings for the 85 degree nose retract it appears might work
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:54 AM   #22
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Philbel. Dude o n something that big I myself would use a 2200 2s1p lipo with a Castle Creations Regulator to power the reciever and the servos. If I needed more weight in th nose for balance I would stick even a bigger lipo for reciever. To me that's cheap insurance, instead of trusting a esc's bec. On a large plane like the 421, is $40.00 going to break the bank for a little piece of mind? Or for $20.00 more you can get the heavy duty regulator.

Castle Creations 10 amp switching regulator. $22.00. Tower Hobbies
Castle Creations 20 amp Pro regulator. $39.00

2s1p 2200 30c. $16.95. Heads Up.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:21 PM   #23
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Default Cessna 421

Phil,I know this Thread is old but I just finished my Cessna 421 twin.Havent flown yet.Hope yours flew OK.Can you answer a couple questions?(1)Did you parallel the battery's or are they alone with there ESC and motor?(2) did you make one prop counter rotating?Oh,by the way I went with RC Lander Electric retracts.Seem to work fine.Hope to get it in the air soon.Dean
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:02 PM   #24
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My only caveat on RC Lander retracts is that the slider that runs on the worm drive is cast in soft alloy and the thread wears away. It only cost me 1$ to get a replacement (+7$ postage!!) but by the time it arrived I had glued a steel nut on each side and made a much more long lasting job of it.

Have a good maiden flight!

Nice try - but no cigar!
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