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Old 05-06-2014, 11:40 PM   #1
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Default *Giant Scale 50cc*

Not only am I new to this forum I'm also new to giant scale electric. I have been flying giant scale gasses for some years it's just the electric part I'm new to. I have some small electric planes just nothing big. I have the E-flite Power 360 that I'm going to use on a 50cc size plane running 12S. Unless I missed it I did not see a "Giant Scale" forum.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:14 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Zippi View Post
Not only am I new to this forum I'm also new to giant scale electric. I have been flying giant scale gasses for some years it's just the electric part I'm new to. I have some small electric planes just nothing big. I have the E-flite Power 360 that I'm going to use on a 50cc size plane running 12S. Unless I missed it I did not see a "Giant Scale" forum.
Hi Zippi and Welcome to Wattflyers Your Right, We Need to start a Giant Scale Forum Thread here on Wattflyers Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 05-07-2014, 12:27 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Zippi View Post
Not only am I new to this forum I'm also new to giant scale electric. I have been flying giant scale gasses for some years it's just the electric part I'm new to. I have some small electric planes just nothing big. I have the E-flite Power 360 that I'm going to use on a 50cc size plane running 12S. Unless I missed it I did not see a "Giant Scale" forum.
Giant scale and electric power work rather nicely together. Just be prepared for $$$$ Sticker Shock!

Here is some of my stuff.

Model Airplane Power Systems (Electric, glow, gasser)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73275

Carl Goldburg Extra 330 Electric Conversion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59273

Giant Scale electric motors vs Gasoline Engines
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58035

Harbor Freight Gasoline/Alternator Setup
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66066,

Great Planes Giant Big Stick Electric Conversion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65052

Giant Scale Cessna Model
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66414

Redwing MXSR Model
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72225

Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

That MXSR model is currently my favorite. Flies well, looks very nice, and that Hacker A60-5S motor with a 10S2P A123 pack hauls that model straight up, out of sight. The wheel pants are crap though. Cheap plastic.

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Old 05-07-2014, 12:30 AM   #4
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Sticker is not as bad as it used to be... You can get the batteries for 12S 5000 mah for under $150 now.
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:01 AM   #5
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Thanks for the info guys. Fhhuber is correct. As long as you don't go all out like the Hacker Q80-8M which is $650.00 it's about the same price as a gasser. You can get 5000mah 6S 40C packs anywhere from $70.00 - $100.00 that will hold up well. ESC's are about the same. Depends on what you by.
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:06 AM   #6
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I'm looking at the new 60CC Extra 260 Free Style that Aeroworks just came out with. A club member has the new 3DHS 92" Edge 540 running on 12S with the E-flite Power 360 running a 22X10 3 blade prop and it has tons of power. My current project. Was going to use my E-file Power 360 on this one but went with the EME 60 C.


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Old 05-07-2014, 01:30 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Zippi View Post
Thanks for the info guys. Fhhuber is correct. As long as you don't go all out like the Hacker Q80-8M which is $650.00 it's about the same price as a gasser. You can get 5000mah 6S 40C packs anywhere from $70.00 - $100.00 that will hold up well. ESC's are about the same. Depends on what you by.
That Eflight Power 360 looks really good on motocalc.com. And, it's half the price of the Hacker A80.

Do have a question though. Your friend is running this motor on a 22X10 three blade prop? Has he measured the RPM and Amps input? Just curious.

$140 for a 12S LiPo pack? Prices have come down.

One thing for danged certain. Since you've run giant scale before, you're will aware of that propeller up front. But with electric power, just a flip of the throttle can start that thing up. If your transmitter has a "Motor Kill" switch function, be sure to use it.

Also, with landing your model, be careful with a sudden full power "Go Around". If the model is close to stalling, sudden full power can result in the motor instantly accelerating, and the model instantly rotating 90 degrees to the left. Apply power slowly, like a second or three. I had a giant scale model 5 feet off the ground with wings at 45 degrees, doing that.

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Old 05-07-2014, 01:34 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Sticker is not as bad as it used to be... You can get the batteries for 12S 5000 mah for under $150 now.
Question

Is a 5000 Mah battery big enough for this motor while pulling 130 Amps? That's over my level of expertise.

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Old 05-07-2014, 01:38 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Zippi View Post
I'm looking at the new 60CC Extra 260 Free Style that Aeroworks just came out with. A club member has the new 3DHS 92" Edge 540 running on 12S with the E-flite Power 360 running a 22X10 3 blade prop and it has tons of power. My current project. Was going to use my E-file Power 360 on this one but went with the EME 60 C.
Something I've run across on these giant scale conversions, is that motor. The Eflight 360 motor is 44 ounces. I think that is a lot less than those 50 cc gassers. Makes for really trying to move the LiPo battery pack as far forward as you can to avoid a tail heavy model.

One big difference between electric power and those big gassers. That would be vibration. Last year, I put together a "G" meter that measures acceleration some 4000 times per second, and shows peak values. One of my club members had a gasser with a 150 cc twin cylinder engine up front. While that engine was idling, that G meter showed over 25 G's vibration directly on top of the aileron servo. Vibration levels at the location of the internal rudder servos (there were three of them ganged up) was on the order of 12 G's depending on throttle position. Higher RPM's smoothed it out a bit.

With electric power, there is none of this hammering the servo gears, or the airplane itself.

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Old 05-07-2014, 01:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Question

Is a 5000 Mah battery big enough for this motor while pulling 130 Amps? That's over my level of expertise.
12S so that's running two 5000 mah 6Spacks. Here is the video I shot. The power of this motor is amazing. Judge for yourself.

http://youtu.be/zIwZopcGVsY
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:49 AM   #11
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Hi Everyone I asked one of the Adm. to see about Starting a New, Giant Scale E Power Forum We Shall see what Happens, as there are a lot of Giant scale builders here on Wattflyers My Scratch Built Giant Foam Biplane.





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Old 05-07-2014, 01:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Hi Everyone I asked one of the Adm. to see about Starting a New, Giant Scale E Power Forum We Shall see what Happens, as there are a lot of Giant scale builders here on Wattflyers



CHELLIE,

You are the cats meow
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:54 AM   #13
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Thank You For The Complement Zippi

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Zippi View Post
12S so that's running two 5000 mah 6Spacks. Here is the video I shot. The power of this motor is amazing. Judge for yourself.

http://youtu.be/zIwZopcGVsY
Oh

I forgot to remove the 1.6/1 ratio gear box in motocalc.com from a previous model evaluation

So, the motocalc numbers pretty much look like how your friends models flew. Even more incredible, motocalc suggests 95% efficiency. Even if that efficiency value is way the heck off, don't matter, just look at your video.

Wasn't that long ago, the common complaint is "Electric models are underpowered". I used to take a long long take off run on my 1200 watt 8 pound models, get it in the air really slowly. Like its under powered. Then, right in front of the pit area, hit full power and turn it vertical, and fly straight up out of sight. There were always a few "Holy Cows" from the peanut gallery.

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Old 05-07-2014, 04:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Hi Everyone I asked one of the Adm. to see about Starting a New, Giant Scale E Power Forum We Shall see what Happens, as there are a lot of Giant scale builders here on Wattflyers My Scratch Built Giant Foam Biplane.
Hi Chellie
Now that's a nice looking foamie that doesn't look like a foamie!!


Good work

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Old 05-07-2014, 05:18 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Hi Chellie
Now that's a nice looking foamie that doesn't look like a foamie!!


Good work
Thank You Denny for the complement

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Oh

I forgot to remove the 1.6/1 ratio gear box in motocalc.com from a previous model evaluation

So, the motocalc numbers pretty much look like how your friends models flew. Even more incredible, motocalc suggests 95% efficiency. Even if that efficiency value is way the heck off, don't matter, just look at your video.

Wasn't that long ago, the common complaint is "Electric models are underpowered". I used to take a long long take off run on my 1200 watt 8 pound models, get it in the air really slowly. Like its under powered. Then, right in front of the pit area, hit full power and turn it vertical, and fly straight up out of sight. There were always a few "Holy Cows" from the peanut gallery.
Sounds like a drag racing Prius.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:50 AM   #18
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I was attempting one of the extreme standing starts possible with electric now and spit the bell, 22 inch prop and spinner off the airplane. From a standing start the 13 lb plane jumped forward 6 ft and the prop assembly went over 75 ft.
Sheared the snap ring holding the shaft in the motor.
The ESC didn't survive the sudden loss of resistance in the motor windings.

That one was propped for appx 3500 watts.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:36 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
I was attempting one of the extreme standing starts possible with electric now and spit the bell, 22 inch prop and spinner off the airplane. From a standing start the 13 lb plane jumped forward 6 ft and the prop assembly went over 75 ft.
Sheared the snap ring holding the shaft in the motor.
The ESC didn't survive the sudden loss of resistance in the motor windings.

That one was propped for appx 3500 watts.
Yikes! The motor came apart? What brand motor?

For other wattflyer readers, without the bell, electrically that motor is pretty much a dead short circuit.

For what its worth that can't happen with the Hacker A60 series motors. Their shafts are one piece with a shoulder on the back side of the motor. I've had the A60 shaft grub screws come loose though.

Methinks every motor has some sort of problem eventually. Those cheap screws came loose after about 300 flights. That was a real sob to fix.

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Old 05-07-2014, 03:57 PM   #20
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Turnigy motor, rated for 12S and 100 amps.... I bought a pair of them and both were nothing but trouble. Turns out they put the magnets in with hot melt glue and it only took 120 F to get them out.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:49 PM   #21
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Oh I know that well. Were those motors red? I have one in my mini switch, 2836 size. Power: 1200kv with 8x6 prop, unlimited vertical. Quality: not great, couple flights an a magnet debonded.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
Oh I know that well. Were those motors red? I have one in my mini switch, 2836 size. Power: 1200kv with 8x6 prop, unlimited vertical. Quality: not great, couple flights an a magnet debonded.
Good grief. What are they using, old chewing gum

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Yikes! The motor came apart? What brand motor?

For other wattflyer readers, without the bell, electrically that motor is pretty much a dead short circuit.

For what its worth that can't happen with the Hacker A60 series motors. Their shafts are one piece with a shoulder on the back side of the motor. I've had the A60 shaft grub screws come loose though.

Methinks every motor has some sort of problem eventually. Those cheap screws came loose after about 300 flights. That was a real sob to fix.
Good idea for a motor shaft, eliminates the need for a screw to secure it. Wonder if it is possible to find a screw and use that as a motor shaft, as the head of the screw would hold the shaft in.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:01 PM   #24
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You can get a NAIL and have it machined into a shaft with a head to prevent ejection from the motor. It will be less hard than original, but should work fine.

Probably cost more than the motor if you can't do it yourself...
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
You can get a NAIL and have it machined into a shaft with a head to prevent ejection from the motor. It will be less hard than original, but should work fine.

Probably cost more than the motor if you can't do it yourself...
LOL
I've done that myself on my lathe. Machining to the tight tolerances required for the bearings to fit right is a real pain in the . It's going to take a few hours.

Especially when you can buy a Hacker replacement shaft for an A40 motor for $5.00.

Just thought, you can buy millimeter sized shafting for motors that don't sell spare parts. Right off the shelf from www.speedymetals.com and likely many other places.
http://www.speedymetals.com/s-18-o-1-metric.aspx

This web site is interesting looking over, since it lists all sorts of metal products, their specs, and typical uses.

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