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Old 04-22-2014, 01:20 AM   #1
Brewerpaul
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OK, so after some fine tuning I got a nice launch of my Hawk Sky on Saturday. Nice smooth, gentle climb. Made my first turn, nice and easy. Started my second turn and all hell broke loose. I'm guessing I banked too steeply and lost lift. In any event, I couldn't regain control and the plane made a truly spectacular crash into a radio/CB mast on the roof of a maintenance building at the soccer field where I was flying. The plane ended up hanging from that mast, wing on one side, fuselage on the other, connected by an aileron servo lead. All that came down to the ground was half of one wing. The nice park people put the plane aside when if blew down and I got it back today. Both wings are snapped in half: so much for packing tape reinforcement! One wing half is totally missing. The LiPO is mashed, and is sitting in a bucket of water right now. The tail feathers are surprisingly intact. No idea if any of the servos or the motor still work.
I'm very disheartened. New wings would run $20, plus almost that much to have them shipped. What to do, what to do...
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:36 AM   #2
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Paul, get an EPP plane that can take a licking. EPO's are nice but EPP really can take a beating and glues back together with CA. I looked at www.lazertoyz.com planes at SEFF and they had some durable planes. perhaps you could use the gear out of yours in one of the EPP's to save expenses.

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 04-22-2014, 01:42 AM   #3
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When I got into the hobby my third plane was a UHU glider and I destroyed that in two flights like the first two. Number four was a Push-E-Cat. That plane allowed me to learn how to fly and went through a lot. http://garrisonaerodrome.com/rc-aero...she/index.html is the Push-e-cat page. Not sure if they are in production any more but they were a great plane to learn on back a few years ago.

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Old 04-22-2014, 02:08 AM   #4
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One reason i recommend the slow stick so often, you can get parts anywhere!

Most toy stores at my local mall ocassionally have on. they will fly on just about any motor/esc/receiver/servo combo.

not the cheapest way, but it will keep you going.

do you have a flight simulator? It goes a long way.

where are you located? Might be able to meet up with some local guys and have them help you get it trimmed in and ready for flight.

another option, headsuprc has $2 shipping and.gets from florida to me in utah in 2 days.

also, many, many flying wings can go through hell and back without major damage.

if your going.to.fly them, your gonna crash sooner or later. it won't take too long to get it to be later if you can get a bit of help here and there.

also, buy cheepie hobby king batteries. they are about 1/2 the price you will find them anywhere else.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:18 AM   #5
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Paul, you are not the first one to go through such a trying time. The initial stages of RC are very frustrating. Your initial description of the flight bears that out. It's a little like "fishing" we really don't like "fishing" per se, we like catching fish! And when it comes to RC we don't like crashing, we like flying! And initially you get just enough flying to keep you going, but then "wham!"

The suggestions of getting some help and using a flight sim are really invaluable. If you can't get a simulator, then getting some hands on help really is the ticket. I think back now to how frustrating it was to go through all the stages in the early going. Now, I'm so glad I did. Not that I never have any mishaps, but now when I do have them it usually because I got in a hurry, didn't do a good pre flight check, or rushed a repair that ended up failing.

Hang in there, get some help. It really does get fun!

Jeff

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Old 04-22-2014, 02:39 AM   #6
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Agree with what everyone said before.
I would add this as well Crashing is a learning experience all in its own. First of all it teaches you some repair skills that become invaluable because then you know all the ins and outs of your plane. 2nd what did you learn from the crash. This can be hard especially f you don't have someone with you who also witnessed the crash. It sounds like from your description the plane stalled. Every crash you can learn from and eventually the crashes become less and less. Don't give up practice practice practice

Here is my first flight ever and it did not turn out so well either. In fact just crashed a plane on Saturday.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFq9wtIVeLs

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:33 AM   #7
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We all still crash. Not as often as when we started but it still happens.
I think a part of the problem is the hawksky itself. I've had one. Was supposed to be a lazy day flyer. I never got the thing to fly right. It is way underpowered and is a pita to balance right. It slows down way to fast in a turn and has too little elevator and rudder authority. Due to the lack of power it stalls rapidly with out much chance of recovering.
I highly recommend parking that plane and finding yourself a hz supercub.
You will be amazed at how much easier that plane is to fly than the hawksky.
You will have greater success without as much frustration.
You'll still crash, but less often. It is also a very tough and forgiving plane and parts are available at nearly every hobby shop in existence.

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Old 04-22-2014, 04:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Brewerpaul View Post
OK, so after some fine tuning I got a nice launch of my Hawk Sky on Saturday. Nice smooth, gentle climb. Made my first turn, nice and easy. Started my second turn and all hell broke loose. I'm guessing I banked too steeply and lost lift. In any event, I couldn't regain control and the plane made a truly spectacular crash into a radio/CB mast on the roof of a maintenance building at the soccer field where I was flying. The plane ended up hanging from that mast, wing on one side, fuselage on the other, connected by an aileron servo lead. All that came down to the ground was half of one wing. The nice park people put the plane aside when if blew down and I got it back today. Both wings are snapped in half: so much for packing tape reinforcement! One wing half is totally missing. The LiPO is mashed, and is sitting in a bucket of water right now. The tail feathers are surprisingly intact. No idea if any of the servos or the motor still work.
I'm very disheartened. New wings would run $20, plus almost that much to have them shipped. What to do, what to do...
We All Crash from time to time, You cant let that Stop you,Get another wing, get another lipo and Go Fly, Remember that Hawk Sky is going to be your Learning Thrasher Plane, its going to Crash and get all Ugly , Sooooooooooo Buy another one after you get your training in I told your Better Half that it would be OK to get another Hawk Sky , Show her this post as a Reminder Take care and have fun, Chellie

BTW , Keep the speed up when turning, or it will stall and fall to the ground, Another Lesson Learned, This is the way we All Learn if you loose air speed, drop the nose down fast to regain speed. Speed = Air Flow over the control Surfaces for control of the Plane. Just Keep at it, You will have a few Planes under your belt before you get good at RC, thats the price we all have to Pay.

You Have to Really Want to Fly Rc, and you cant let a few crashes and Damaged planes stop you, This will be a Test of your RC Perseverance, Whether you Really want to Fly Rc or Not.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:25 AM   #9
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Hawk Sky Wing $19.99

http://www.graysonhobby.com/catalog/...ng-p-1195.html

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:38 AM   #10
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Thumbs up on the Super Cub suggestion. I've never had one... but I wish I had started with one after seeing so many others learn to fly with one. It really does make a difference, it's very forgiving, but like Chellie said you still need to learn to keep the speed up on the turns. That's true of almost every plane, just that some can turn slower than others. It's one thing (among many) that you learn as you fly different styles of planes. And like Chellie also said "make the one you have your thrasher plane." We all had them and in some cases still do!

Don't give up, get back in the saddle... or ah... on the radio!

Jeff

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:08 AM   #11
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http://www.nitroplanes.com/60a-dy894...ellow-arf.html

4 channel EPO foam Cub slightly larger than the Parkzone and cheaper... Very good.
ARF if you have a radio you are happy with.

Or there is a RTF version adds a passable 2.4 ghz 4 ch radio and a LiPo for not much more than the cost of the LiPo.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:07 AM   #12
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If anyone should have thrown in the towel it should have been me. Get back up on the horse and keep trying. It will get better. And just when you think you're getting pretty good, you'll have a dumb thumb moment or forget to do something.

You'll have days where you come home on top of the world and you'll have days where you come home with your tail between your legs.

My Dad used to tell me: " Someday you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you! it's like that in RC.

In the end, it's all in an effort to have some fun and gain a sense of accomplishment,

Hey, it beats a 5 hour round of golf ! Hang in there !
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:52 AM   #13
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Don't give up ... find other flyers ... go chat with them ... join their club or group.

That's the best bit of advice ever.

Second get a trainer - who cares about brand / model name ... I'll say it again ... get a trainer ... but what I would say is - get a nice sized one - so you can see it, it doesn't flit around like a startled bee .. bigger is better as it is more steady.

Third - listen to those guys on site who already fly - they may not be totally technically correct - but they have gone through same as you and survived ....

Fourth - get a sim ... there's no need to spend a fortune either on Realflight / Phoenix .. there are perfectly good ones far cheaper than that ... RC Flightmaster I use ... comes with USB Tx .. or Clearview ... I suggest stay away from freeby as FMS ..
With Flightmaster and Clearview - you can use your own Tx with trainer cable to the PC .. no need for daft dongles like some expensive need.

If you could see the crashes and heartache we have all gone through - you would not need to ask "Should I carry on !!"

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Old 04-22-2014, 01:30 PM   #14
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Hello Brewer,can I suggest a flight simulator, if you haven't already got one?

You can use it to iron out any problems with recovering from unnatural flight attitudes and correct any orientation problems you may be experiencing.

I have recently purchased the Phoenix4 (it has free upgrades) and plan to use it over the winter months (Australia), so I will have most of the the mechanical memory learning finished when spring comes around again. Then I'll get the trainer.

A sim may save you some money and definitely give you encouragement to keep going.

Cheers.
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:27 PM   #15
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It has been a year of completely unexpected weather trends, and a day like this has been rare. It's 8 AM. The combination of a late summer morning and 7000 feet of altitude have mixed to produce a cool and slightly palpable atmosphere. Clouds from the night before are still partially blocking the rising sun. I won't even need a cap.

I step onto the near-new, and very expensive soccer field all those considerate parents built for their incessantly-moving offspring. Fortunately, the dirty little creatures are not in evidence today as it's a holiday. In fact, the expansive stretch of Astro Turf before me is entirely mine. Surrounded by a paved track, the gods themselves could not provide a better RC flying field. A couple of soccer nets left about will require that I remain on my toes.

I plug in the first of the two batteries I brought, do a quick control check, point her into the slight breeze, and throttle up. The lift off comes quickly, and soon I am watching my bird from the rear, as it raises it's nose and enters a steep climb, up and away, reminding me of the countless times I've stood in airports watching the airliners do the same thing, eventually disappearing out of sight above the terminal windows. A slight bank and my bird enters a graceful turn and settles in at pattern altitude. I keep her in close on the downwind so I can see what she and the air currents are doing. She's doing the expected, with an occasional slight waggle of her tail, indicating that the warming air is now starting to generate some thermal activity. She continually straightens herself out, as she should, because I designed her as a stable aileron trainer, capable of handling more wind than Is really pleasant to fly in. Slight adjustments of throttle and angle of attack are working nicely to effect changes in speed or altitude. She is smooth and responsive, exhibiting a sense of mass that allows me to believe she is bigger than she appears.

So far, the wind has not started to rise and I am blessed with almost perfect flight conditions. I intend to come around for a touch & go - it's so satisfying to see her do the little bounce off the turf and spring skyward again. Turning final at least a hundred yards out, I completely throttle off, knowing this gal is reluctant to slow down. She rewards me with a beautiful floating glide, like a sailplane-in-disguise, and before I know it she's topping the fence and ready to settle onto the turf. I know I can repeat this performance, so at the last moment I give her just enough throttle to get the prop turning again and settle in instead, at about five feet, in a low pass that soon has her floating gently by my face only three feet away. I can hear the growling of the motor and the whirling of the prop. Her ample size gives me the illusion she's the real thing.

On the next circuit I put on my test pilot hat and decide to explore her capabilities a bit. The very slight breeze will allow me an extra bit of stability. I must remember that this airplane is still in it's test phase, and my skills are also still developing. Altitude is my friend. I try a few barrel rolls. Sloppy. There's more barrel than Roll. The next maneuver reveals a shortcoming, not a serious one for a trainer, but an area that could be improved nonetheless. I try to roll her onto her back.

She goes over alright, but I immediately discover that there is not enough elevator throw to keep her there! Her upside down dive quickly steepens and I'm forced to initiate a pull-out that might be violent enough to fold her foam wings. No problems! Her dual CF rods do their duty and the wing remains in one piece as I recover level flight only 30 feet from disaster. OK, more elevator movement, and maybe that KFm3 airfoil prefers to be right side up. A few of these shenanigans is enough. This baby isn't really designed for that. She's a sweet flyer and I have no intention of destroying her at this stage of the game. The info is filed away though, for my next, more advanced bird.

Sooner than I'd like, my second battery hits it's limit and it's time for me to hit the road. I can't help but be aware, on the short drive home, that there's a big smile on my face. It was only twenty minutes of joy, but it will last through a considerable part of the day. Heck....maybe this evening the wind will be down again.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:41 PM   #16
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The satisfaction of the first full successful flight is hard to repeat .. it is heaven.

Pals at the bar that night will get fed up hearing how graceful you brought her back to earth .. the thrill of actually taking her home in one piece ...

At home wife will look on her 'child' sitting there with beer in hand ... smile on his face ... that dreamy look of far of flying ....

Yep - it is all worth it in the end.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:42 PM   #17
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Maxflyer .. question : How do you find astro-turf on the models .. is it not a bit hard on the foamies ?

Nigel

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Old 04-22-2014, 10:08 PM   #18
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I have flown my scratch-built aileron trainer, my Fun Cub, and an old 3CH Miss2 off this field, each sporting very different wheels. As long as I get them down right-side-up there is no problem. The fake plastic "grass" is just long enough to give a tiny bit of cushioning, and If I get them quickly down over the enclosing fence at the approach end there is a long, smooth runway that allows even a fast airplane like my Cub (thin air at 7000 MSL) to stretch out the glide for a smooth touchdown. Because the surface is so smooth, if I touch down long or end up at the far end, it's easy to taxi all the way back to my position.

Might be a problem if I couldn't get them down on their feet. I suspect 9 yr. old soccer players might bounce off this surface better than a foam airplane. Actually, the unwary are in for a surprise if they let the airplane bounce. It may not be concrete, but it's pretty darned firm. It will cause my Fun Cub to do quite a dance if I'm not careful! A beautiful, completely empty field like this gives you a twitch in your pants the first time you see it. It's impossible NOT to imagine trying to fly from it. Now, if only there was a way to keep those annoying children away.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:45 PM   #19
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OK. I hate to beat this to death by dragging out a photo of my Driveway Diva trainer once more (the subject of my story). I have given up trying to convince beginners of all the benefits of building and flying their own airplane. I'm from a different planet and another time, and I accept that younger folk are going to insist on doing it differently these days.

Some points could still be made however, in comparing the Diva to some of the "beginner" designs that are frequently purchased.

The Diva was designed as a lightweight but stable airplane that could be flown from the dirt road in front of my house. It was built quickly, with no concern for appearance (the colored tape is primarily for orientation in the air). I assumed it was a matter of WHEN I was going to crash it, not IF. In fact, the one you see here is a rebuild of the original, which suffered a slight...er...mishap. With that in mind, I used components of quality so that they could be salvaged and re-used.

The design is butt-simple. Enough size and weight to allow it to fly well in a modest wind. The wing is a simple Kline-Foglemann planform, with a bit of dihedral added out at the wingtips, which gives it some of the same self-righting stability a 3CH model has. The large arrow-like tail adds to the stability, and allows a surprising amount of sport maneuverability. It can, in fact, be flown using coordinated turns, just the rudder, or just the elevator and ailerons.

The EPP fuselage, with it's embedded CF arrow shaft allows for a pretty good hit before it gives way, and the forward section has little rigidity, allowing the motor to completely break away in a forceful impact (I have tested that characteristic a couple of times!), without even breaking a prop. It can simply be glued back into place. The wing and tail are inexpensive EPS, which doesn't take much of a hit, but is easy to repair or replace. And once you get good enough to get it down on it's gear 90% of the time, it's really not an issue.

Probably the greatest negative in the eyes of the typical beginner...It ain't very smart lookin.' Doesn't even look much like an airplane until it gets airborne.

What's it's point? It allowed me to get some pretty good stick-and-rudder skills developed in a relatively fast time. I was then much more confident about risking flights with something like my Fun Cub, which took me many hours to construct, and probably in excess of $200 to equip.

IMO, many beginner designs would benefit from more attention to flight characteristics and less concern for looks. Or you can just buy an Apprentice and be done with it.


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Old 04-22-2014, 10:54 PM   #20
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For Newbies getting into RC, The one Thing that I always suggest, is to make your plane a Tad Nose Heavy, Why, Because before the plane will stall, the nose will drop down to regain speed, speed is your friend, it will keep your plane with air flow over the control surfaces, move the CG a Tad forwards and go Fly

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:17 AM   #21
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My first flights were terrible. First plane was a AXN cloud fly, or is it ANX. I first uses a 6x Turnigy radio, wouldn't function and on could program basic things. Turns out, it was worse than that, and no matter what the plane would bank right, except the first flight, where I was anxious and flew in heavy winds, it just went up and crashed far off into the farm field near a water filled trench (that's not my flying area now). After it was dead, I got a tuff trainer, and same issues of banking right until I got a 9x radio. The plane is EPP and tough, except the balsa firewall. Most crashing was trying to land on a grass field and nosing over. Now, my main issues are getting soft landings, which isn't easy when I have to come in hot to go over street lights, but most crashes have been from unforeseen things, such as hovering and a car blocks the view, or just yesterday, I lost complete control of the UMX SBach in a dive. These crashes are the worst because it isn't your fault really that they happen, but the one thing stays the same: a crash happened. Just stick with flying, you'll get better, crash less and advance to faster, more nimble planes.
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:04 AM   #22
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When I couldn't fly my KK Robot ... and I finally listened to the Hobby Shop guy ... I joined a Slope Soaring club as well as the local Power Club.

I can say hand on heart that the Slopers taught me more about flight than any power job did. You HAD to appreciate the nose down ... keep speed up aspect or lose the model. You learnt pretty darned quick about stalls, banking and drag ... all essential parts of keeping a glider alive.

It all carried over to power and made flying a power job so much more understandable .. it was a god-send when fuel ran out or motor stopped of its own accord ...

For me - one of the best trainers will always be a powered glider .. a simple 3 or 4 ch job .. nothing fancy ... but something that will stay up there gliding with power of. Once the art of staying up there a reasonable time without power is learnt - its amazing the advantage gained.

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Old 04-23-2014, 06:32 AM   #23
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Just thought I'd mention (for those who have seemed to miss it) that the OP's Hawk Sky is considered a beginners (pusher prop) "glider"....at 1350mm it would have decent "gliding" capability....of course not that of a 3meter "slope" model.

The OP seems to have selected a decent "beginner" model to learn on...and at $20.00 for wing replacment and another $20.00 for battery, thats nearly half the cost of the original investment....it's really the OP's call.......although it could provide some valuable build skills.

Like Maxflyer has "beat to death"...lol.......To learn on a 4ch aileron type (which the Hawk Sky is capable of) is a smart move. Me thinks rather than jumping onto a scale Piper or alike, gaining command of a "glider" type craft will have it's advantages later as one grows, much like Nigel eluded to, (particularly after the OP's last adventure)......sometimes it's not advisable to "change horses in the middle of a stream"....if one gets my drift........

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Old 04-23-2014, 09:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
For Newbies getting into RC, The one Thing that I always suggest, is to make your plane a Tad Nose Heavy, Why, Because before the plane will stall, the nose will drop down to regain speed, speed is your friend, it will keep your plane with air flow over the control surfaces, move the CG a Tad forwards and go Fly
Yup-- I was aware of that and had it nose heavy.

As far as choice of planes goes, I did a lot of looking around before I bought the Sky Hawk and still think it's the type of flier I want for now. I have too many hobbies (such as making wooden penny whistles: www.busmanwhistles.com ) to make RC a major addiction. What I was looking for is something to throw in the car once in a while, fly for a couple of leisurely batteries worth without a lot of hassles. Maybe do a few basic aerobatics, and be able to fly on slightly breezy days.
A replacement battery is not a problem-- I ordered the plane with an extra plus I found that I already had one extra similar battery from earlier RC adventures.

I still have to check out the remaining electronics and see what needs replacing, but it seems that sticking with this beaten and bruised plane is still my best bet for now.
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:42 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Brewerpaul View Post
Yup-- I was aware of that and had it nose heavy.

As far as choice of planes goes, I did a lot of looking around before I bought the Sky Hawk and still think it's the type of flier I want for now. I have too many hobbies (such as making wooden penny whistles: www.busmanwhistles.com ) to make RC a major addiction. What I was looking for is something to throw in the car once in a while, fly for a couple of leisurely batteries worth without a lot of hassles. Maybe do a few basic aerobatics, and be able to fly on slightly breezy days.
A replacement battery is not a problem-- I ordered the plane with an extra plus I found that I already had one extra similar battery from earlier RC adventures.

I still have to check out the remaining electronics and see what needs replacing, but it seems that sticking with this beaten and bruised plane is still my best bet for now.

I completely destroyed my first rc plane with out getting in very much air time, it was a cox low wing foam plane with a 049 engine and a 2 channel transmitter, I think i got about 10 to 15 seconds of air time in then crash Flying a RC Plane is Harder than flying a Real Airplane, I have flown both, a real plane is a piece of cake to fly, RC is much harder, I took the radio system out of that new crashed Plane and built a 2 meter Glider with a 049 cox engine power pod, and thats what i used to learn to fly RC with. Stick with it, It will be worth it after you have Earned Your WINGS

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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