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Multi-Rotors Discuss your quad copters and other multi engined choppers here.

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Old 05-12-2014, 02:54 PM   #26
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2 props should turn one way, 2 should turn the other. Normally the front are one way and the back are the other on a quad.

The top surface of the blades should be somewhat rounded like the outside of a water glass.
Generally there will be numbers on the prop near the hub and those should be up. There are some rare exceptions to this though.

Your video looks like the props are on correctly assuming the motors on the red arms spin one way and the motors on the white arms spin the other. (looks like that is happening but hard to tell for sure)

Your ESCs are not responding evenly... All should spin up at the same time or extremely close to the same time. You have 2 of the motors starting way late. This is usually ESC programming.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:14 PM   #27
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leadpan....try what JPL suggested, again.......


Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Follow these steps:
  1. Remove the flight controller and bind the Rx to the Tx as per the Spektrum instructions. You should see the light on the Rx turn solid when bind is achieved. Remove bind plug after binding.
  2. Do callibration of ESC's as per previous instructions with ESC's connected direct to Rx (flight controller still removed)
  3. Test that system is working by test running the motors and ESC's one at a time connected direct to Rx throttle channel and with props removed (flight controller still removed).
  4. Double check that dip switches are correctly set for 'standard' receiver and connect up flight controller double checking connectors are all in the right place and not plugged in upside down. (Do not re-bind and do not re-calibrate).
Flight controller should now operate. Most flight controllers have an arming procedure that you need to follow in order to power up the motors, if so this should be in the manual.
At "throttle" start-up......all rotors should be turning at approximately the same speed....two front turning in the same direction, opposite of the two rear.......the only time the rotor speeds should deviate is when you either yaw or turn during (position) rotation.....there can be a speed difference, between the front and rear rotors, when forward or reverse direction is engaged as well.

As mentioned previously, each ESC should (must) be calibrated seperately in order to insure duplication is not carried over from one to the other....(even though you may find the settings, in pairs, to require like settings)........make sure you have not (if applicable) changed any of the Transmitter values related to stick functions (all controls, except the throttle), should be centered and balanced, or have armed the ESC's in different sets of protocol.

I doubt the rotor blades are causing the issue, if you have installed them in the proper order (as indicated by the manufacture manual) and with any stamped ID's on the blades visually facing up.

Hope this helps a little...!

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Old 05-12-2014, 10:16 PM   #28
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Okay folks, got the ESC re-calibrated and now all the motors are rotating correctly!
Planning to flight-test #2 this afternoon at a grassy field park.
One important thing I learned from LHS was the transmitter rate MUST be set to HIGH; or will not work!

Will post video of maiden flight. Thanks for all your help!
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:06 PM   #29
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In the video the props on the left side were wrong. The prop in the front should be on the back and vice versa. Please do not connect the battery then turn on the transmitter. Always turn on the transmitter first then connect the battery.

I use 50% expo on a lot of my quads to make them fly smooth. Is that and option on the radio you are using?

Good luck and be safe

Terry

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Old 05-14-2014, 04:43 PM   #30
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UPDATE:
The quad won't self level. I think the flight-controller is defective because one ESC/motor arm #3 will sometimes not spin at beginning. When all motors are spinning, I give throttle and it won't hover. I'm trying to trim it but it's still not hovering (it wants to move forward). I ordered the KK2 flight-controller from HobbyKing. Hope that helps.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:37 AM   #31
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Take a look at this link:

http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread....scovery/page2&

And make sure your board has the latest firmware......good luck to ya leadpan....the learning curve has now been expanded further.....

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Old 05-15-2014, 03:18 PM   #32
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Thumbs up

After much tweaking(replace one ESC, calibrate the f/c) here's a successful maiden flight!

-Maiden flight #1
Adjusting trims and trying out hovering, yaw, etc.
http://youtu.be/Cg1HSha6bpY

-Maiden flight #2
Moved to bigger field.
http://youtu.be/YDT4wQjgiRY


-Maiden flight #3
http://youtu.be/xHMr22rb6ao
Testing out full-throttle...then what happened? Could I have moved my sticks to get out of that spin? Will NAZA or Arducopter ATTI save/stabilize it?

At the end I thought quad was destroyed but as you can see on last video; the CD case served as "crush-able" bumper! All I need is to get another CD case! It seems I need to add expo; the controls are so sensitive (especially throttle). I'm already thinking of my next hexcopter with Naza.

THANK YOU ALL for your help!
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:04 PM   #33
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Leadpan....

Bravo......!

You really do prefer "running" before walking....

Just a few observations:

She does appear a little unstable....although it was hard to tell just how balanced she was since your vid's indicate you had her at least 30' to 50' above the ground most of the time...since your'e a new pilot, orientation is part of the issue we all deal with in the beginning. I'd suggest you get a feel for her at much lower elevation, that way you'll be able to watch her "habits" much closer and be able to adjust speed and direction much quicker..... (and suffer much less damage and anxiety).

The throttle response should be adjustable through both your controll board (stabilization settings) and transmitter Expo (but I don't believe the Dx5) has that ability.....I know on the KK2 board and Dx6i your'e able too!

Consider, for now, practicing hover and 4 squares at 3' to 5' above the ground....then try flying her "nose" in towards you (walk before running)! This will not only give a good indication just how stable she is (where/what to dial in for smoother control) but also you'll gain quicker command of the craft in a shorter time period........you'll be required to have "complete" command of her once you add video equipment and FPV down the road.......

Be patient and make a full equipment inspection/test of the craft before each flight....crashes have a way of screwing things up (even the slightest ding can loosen a wire or throw off balance).....!

NAZA is my personal choice for 350 and above multi-rotors (although I'm also partial to Blades SAFE system since it works well with Spektrum transmitters)....

You're moving along quite well for a newbie.....glad to see your'e success!

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Old 05-15-2014, 04:17 PM   #34
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Thanks pizzano,
Practice and I'm getting a Taranis transmitter soon.
Is there anything I could of done when the quad starts spinning out of control (my last video)?
Just got email from readymaderc.com that my FPV gears are on the way!
Here's a question I was puzzled:
if I have Naza/Ardu type system, do I need FPV?
What's advantage of having FPV and Naza?

I'm excited about all the possibilities with my quad!

Here's another video today that was closer to ground:
http://youtu.be/mFNop-2iXck
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:05 PM   #35
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leadpan.....

Without having a "self stabilzation/leveling or return to home" option on-board...the pilot is "on his own" ability bringing the craft down in one piece!.......as you noticed, multi rotor craft do not glide or float without help from an on-board system.....they just drop like a brick!

With a collective pitch heli, we have a method referred to as "auto-rotation" that can save a bad situation in the air.....it's not a fail-safe" but, in the hands of an experienced pilot, it works......I've done it quite a few times.....

As for NAZA and FPV......NAZA is compatible with many optional telemetry/AR systems......as for FPV, there are quite a few good systems out there......Check out the FPV section at:

http://www.multirotorforums.com/forum.php

FPV is a whole different flying experience.......that is why one must have complete command of the craft during line of site practice prior to moving into remote observation (if one intends to have any success or does not care to advance one's repair/build skills)....

You do not need an FPV system to use the NAZA controll board....(two seperate and distinct systems) as well as the various GPS systems available......but you'll need all three in order to have "true" success and pure enjoyment!

As you will find out, obtaining a good GPS system, NAZA control board, stand-alone monitoring system, and remote ground station telemetry equipment, which is preferred by the serious AR guys......will run you into some serious $$$$$..........that's not including any camera's or tracking gimbles (and servo's, software and additional power source equipment)....one of the main reasons I have not branched out into that arena....I refuse to go "cheap" and prefer KISS equipment!

Check out the above link.....read/absorb (learn) everything you can about the various options......decide on a system......then ask the experts there for ideas.....you'll get better respones the more knowledgable you appear and become......

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Old 05-15-2014, 08:50 PM   #36
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Question about props.
I heard Graupner E-Prop 10x5 are good for F450 quad?
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:49 AM   #37
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I have read the same.
the APC multirotor props are on three of my multis and I like them. You may want to read about them. They may cost less. Be sure to order the shaft adapters also as they do not come with them.

Terry

Flying is like ... ah well ... I can not think of anything it is like...
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:46 AM   #38
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Folks,
For windy conditions, is hexcopter more stable then a large H-quad?
I live in a windy city. I'm thinking of getting a big H-quad for FPV; but I'm afraid windy would blow it more then a hexcopter. Thoughts?
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:58 AM   #39
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for windy/gusty/turbulent conditions its going to be more of a question of the stability system responsiveness than hex vs quad.

The main advantage of hex+ vs quad is loss of one motor doesn't ensure a crash. A quad just can't compensate for one motor dieing. A hex can potentially fly with 2 motors dead, depending on which 2 and how heavily its loaded.

The tiny Estes Proto-X (about $50) has a stabilization system that is responsive enough to deal with some extreme turbulence. The Heli-Max 1SQ (about $100 original version... not sure if they fixed the newer versions) can barely keep itself level in dead calm air.
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Old 05-17-2014, 06:29 AM   #40
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I have the 1SQ V-Cam, very stable, unless you do "stunts", of which occasionally cause the copter to veer off in highspeed in any direction, as well as down, but usually not directly down. If you are high enough, it rights itself. It doesn't fly as well with the cam, but without, it hovers well, and moves pretty quick with increased throws.
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Old 05-17-2014, 06:30 AM   #41
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So you're saying it doesn't matter insofar as wind is concerned?
Hex advantage is loss of engine recovery; that's it?

Another successful flight at a park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyLV...NLoRaqkw8ptQLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa3...m-upload_owner
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Old 05-17-2014, 07:20 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by leadpan View Post
Folks,
For windy conditions, is hexcopter more stable then a large H-quad?
I live in a windy city. I'm thinking of getting a big H-quad for FPV; but I'm afraid windy would blow it more then a hexcopter. Thoughts?
All multi rotors fight wind poorly....the better the stabilization system and the bigger the craft (weight and rotors), the better chance of smoother windy flights.

The biggest difference in a hex vs. quad is payload capacity and a term known as "redundancy" (the ability to compensate and recognize when one prop is not functioning as the others). Not all stabization systems provide true redudancy, like a DJI WKM, known to be one of the better systems, does not.

Anyone that tells you that it is "possible" to "fly" a hex with two props down is either referring to "theory" which is not reality, clueless, just showing how little they understand, has little to no experience with multi rotors, or just passing on what they have been told.....

In order for a hex to be brought down in one piece during a single prop failure, the control system must be able compensate for the remaining blade speeds (equalize and trim), yaw and balance....even if the on-board system has that ability, one will not be "flying" it down, but rather just controlling the crafts rate of decent (a very experienced pilot)..........two props down, show me an un-cut video of someone succesfully (intentionally) managing that trick........I'm sure somebody has done it.....noboby I've known or will ever meet...

If your'e really serious about FPV and video......the vast majority of mult-rotor fans prefer a six-pack....the guys with big wallets prefer the octo's due to there load capacity and extreme video stability!

Back to the original "wind" question........flying a multi-rotor craft of any type in windy or gusty conditions is a real challenge for even the most experienced pilot.....many of the high end users I know will not risk or attempt flights in conditions that lift or toss around their craft extremely.....due to three main reasons, flight and video times are cut short due to the power consumption it takes to maintain a level flight........video quality and orientation control are compromised and the cost to replace equipment is extreme!

Just a few thoughts to ponder......

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Old 05-17-2014, 01:32 PM   #43
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Leadpan your flying looks great. Please make sure you are being safe.

The question about hex vs quad is so interesting. My experiences range over two years with quads and one and a half years with hexes. The advice posted so far has good points except the part about losing props. You will not be able to fly the multicopter with a broken prop or failed motor, but the flight controller can fly it. You have to let go of the sticks and get it into the most stable condition for an emergency decent. It will be rotating so quickly that you will have difficulty with orientation.
If you are able to null the rotation with yaw input, your craft will fall from the sky like a brick and start rolling on descent. It is a real mess.

To save it in a lost prop condition you will need a lot of room and confidence in your system. After surviving a broken prop on the Hexcopter a few witnesses said that my flying was very impressive, I though they were joking as I was only in somewhat of control for the last two seconds. I did keep it out of the parking lot and I did get it to the high grass before it flipped as I tried to arrest the descent.

To answer the main question about stability you can think that a hexcopter has two motors that provide lift while the other four vary speed to change direction. This is a very simplified model of the very complex interactions of the motors, but it seems to be what adds stability to a quad and a hex flying the same controller.

Another simplified model would be that each motor on the hex makes less change and can return to stable quicker than on a quad, both seem to connect to my flying observations. It is ok with me if you disagree with all of this. I don't need to know about it. These are just MY observations and explanations.

Flight in the wind can also be affected by streamlining. My Blade quad is very stable in gps hover in the wind and can execute RTH with only minor wobbles. It is not easy to fly in the wind but can be very stable. It has smooth contours and airfoil shaped body parts. I think these things help in strong winds. Some of my other multis are much less aerodynamic and they are pushed more by the same level of wind.

I hope all this stuff helps.
Please be safe. I wonder what the guy on the mower would say if your quad came too close to him?

Terry

Flying is like ... ah well ... I can not think of anything it is like...
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Old 05-17-2014, 05:45 PM   #44
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Thank you Flubber for your in depth answer!
My understanding is the quad size, weight, length, and f/c determines the stability in wind. An H-quad will be more stable then my F450, right?
Since you said there's not much difference wind-wise, I guess my next project will be this large H-quad for FPV:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=35908

You said I need to be more safe. Am I not following AMA guideline for quad flying?
I make sure there's no one around the park when I fly.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:59 AM   #45
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Default First time build a Quad

Deleted I started a new thread.

Thanks
Charles
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