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Old 06-27-2006, 08:09 PM   #1
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Default New Member - Vickers Wellington

Hello all! I'm Ron and a new member here at WattFlyer. I've been into model planes for over 35 years now and tried electrics a few years ago but they did not live up to my expectations. With all of the new choices and the cost coming down daily, I have made the jump back into the electric realm. My main interest is to build/convert planes using what one would call Park-Flyer level equipment. My first real endeavor into this was to build a Vickers Wellington from Frank Baker's plan posted in the AMA mag. back in 1981 (I think).

I built the plane per the artical and plans and even used a standard covering technique (Super Coverite and paint). I know, its a bit heavy but it was what I had on the shelf. If I had to do it over, I should be able to knock off about 8oz.

Specs:
Wing Span is 67" (not sure anymore)
Weight is 5lb, RTF
Power is: 2 x 2816/0890 HiMax outrunners with 8x6SF props
2x1320 TT LiPo 3S
2xCC TB 18 ESC
Mods:
RAM Radial Sound module (sounds just like a twin)
Removable wing
Hatches in necels for bat. and esc access
Can fly on either 2 or 4 batteries but the 2 x1320 cells give me at least 7 minutes of flight with power to spare.
Cruises as 1/2-2/3 throttle. Very realistic in flight.

Yet to come: Frank's Short Stirling, K&A Mallard (almost done), Frank's Mosquito and Whirlwind. All of Frank Baker's plans are based around the OS .10FP so are great for electric conversion and can be found on the AMA site as are the plans.

Here is a picture of the Wellington just prior to painting the cowls. I had to redo them as the first set did not look right. This was the day of the maiden flight and all went well. Started out with 8x8E props but the 8x6SF are much more effiecent.
http://home.comcast.net/~fzl/PA222258.JPG

For those interested in the Mallard, I have a post in the Seaplane section but no pictures yet.

Any comments or questions, please do. I'm by no means a master modeler but I do experiment a lot and rarely try the same thing twice. Any suggestions or information on other electric multi's or interest in building planes using lower cost equipment, I'm all ears.

Ron

Closing thought:
An airplane is designed to fly on it's wing, not the engine/prop. Leave the hovering to helicopters! (IMHO anyway)
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Old 07-01-2006, 04:59 AM   #2
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Ron-- Love your Wellington. Has been an obsession for me of late. Do you recall at all the magazine issue and date? I'd like to order it if I can. Any more pics of it?
Thanks,
Mike
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:53 PM   #3
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Mike, you can do a search in the AMA Archives for Wellington and get to the artical. You will have to do a little searching in the Plans area to find them. I don't recall the plan number but I think you can search on name as well. There is only one Wellington in the system so should be easy to find. The artical ran in the Dec. 1980 issue and the author is Frank B. Baker. If you look around for other of Frank's plans, you will find a B-25, P-61, Mosquito, Whrilwind, and Short Stirling. The Stirling is a big plane but still will use .15 or .10 engines. This is one on my to-do list and I plan on using similar power as the Wellington.

I would suggest that you study the plan well as there are a number of changes that can be done. For one, I would sheet the wing and use a very light covering. Having the wing removable is very nice as Frank has his permanetly mounted. I did not change that much in the plans other than to make a top hatch so I could remove the wing. The wing saddle should be fine the way it is with the extra cuts. Just use strong mounting plates in the fus. and you should be fine.

I will be more than glad to provide any help I can.

Ron
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:01 PM   #4
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Default Welling Pics

Originally Posted by CarreraGTSCS View Post
... Any more pics of it?
Thanks,
Mike
I forgot to address the pictures. Yes, I do have more posted. Go to http://home.comcast.net/~fzl and I have a few others I took that day. If you are looking for more along the lines of construction, I do have a couple of it before covering. I'll provide anything I can. Just ask. (I am planning an outing at a Warbird flyin on 7/8. Plan to have my fleet out so will have plenty of pics. I hope to get a few in the air if I can find someone who can work my camara)

And, Mike, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate the comments and glad to see I'm not the only one who likes bombers.

Ron
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:35 AM   #5
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Hi Ron....
Welcome aboard!!! You're going to love how helpful these forums can be.
I'd love to take look at your plane but the link has died!!
Could you please renew it?
thanks Ron
.................................Roy
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:47 PM   #6
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I never did post back here after building my own Wellington. I scratchbuilt it from 3-views using blue foam. Flew it again last week for the first time in more than a year, maybe two and it flew really well.

Did you ever build your Stirling or Mosquito? I'm working up 3-views of each for a scratchbuild.

Mike
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:57 PM   #7
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Mike, here's the source information on the Wellington.

Vickers Wellington by Frank Baker
Model Aviation Magazine
Dec 1980.
AMA Plan No.320.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:03 PM   #8
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FYI... source for Short Stirling plan that Ron mentioned

Short Sterling by Frank Baker
Model Aviation Magazine
Mar 1989
AMA Plan No. 613

Believe that AMA has this listed as Short Sterling, not Short Stirling
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:12 PM   #9
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FYI... likely source for Mosquito plan that Ron mentioned

Mosquito by Frank Baker
Model Aviation Magazine
July 1983
AMA Plan No. 412

Even though the designer wasn't credited in the search text. Similar publication date to his other war birds. So my best guess.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:35 PM   #10
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FYI... Here's the source information on the Whirlwind that Ron mentioned

Westland Whirlwind by Frank Baker
Model Aviation Magazine
June 1986
AMA Plan No. 515

Sometimes he is listed as Frank Baker and other times as Frank B Baker. AMA doesn't always credit the designer in the tag line for their plan listings so you won't necessarily be able to pull up plans by the designer name. Sort of a pity. Would make things easier if AMA did give credit where credit was due.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:11 PM   #11
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Ron,

Lots of guys are getting interested in electric engine model airplanes. You seem to be on the forefront in this area. What is the biggest challenge in doing these conversions so far? Any special reason that you decided to focus on multi-engine planes for your conversion projects? I know that Frank Baker specialized in designing scale-model, WWII multi-engine bombers, so I can certainly understand why you have had his plans in mind once you focused on this area.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:00 AM   #12
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Cub Pilot,

I've been away for some time due to work, other interests, and just plain tired. I've not stopped building or flying but just not at a very fast pace. As to your comment, yes I am very much into building and converting glow planes into electric. I have an extensive background in electronics and have a life long interest in electric motors and power systems. I have my degrees in math and physics with particular emphasis on electromagnetism. This, along with a knack for understanding electric power systems, I find that using electric motors is more natural for smaller planes. Almost all of my current planes use 3-4s packs with capacities of 1000mah to 4000mah. With these I fly 1/2a to .40 size planes with flight times around 9 minutes and a motor run time around 7 minutes. Since I do many touch and goes during my flights, the motor is off for a good percentage of the time so the difference between flight and motor run times.

I choose to concentrate on multi-engine planes just because no one else was. I like being unique and building any plane from plans fills that bill as there are so few builders around. Plus, multi-engine designs seem to be of more unusual subjects and plans are still out there. Unless you've flown multi-engine planes, you will not truly appreciate how different they fly or how much fun the are. Nothing gets people asking question than showing up at the field with an old glow plane converted to a twin or a nice scale bomber or transport plane.

As for doing a conversion, that depends on the plane. If you have done any building from plans, you will know that plans vary in their accuracy and completeness. Since I have built over 100 planes in last 20 years, I have picked up a few tricks. The biggest thing in doing a conversion is to understand that the weight will no longer be concentrated in the engine but in the motor/battery combination. Planes like bombers and multi-engine designs lend themselves to being powered by electric. They are easier to set up, don't need fuel proofing, and you can make hatches or removable noses without the issue of fuel getting all over. The current brushless motors and LiPo batteries are so varied that one can find a direct replacement for any glow motor or change things up to use a larger prop or pitch and still be able to fly. Multi-engine planes really gain from being able to counter-rotate the props so going with 2-4 motors no longer has the problem of torque from having all the motors turn the same direction.

I mentioned that I had several plans from Frank Baker and was planning to build them. That has not happened as some of the plans have been destroyed from water as has a couple of air frames I started. This kind of got me out of building complex projects and I stayed with smaller, simpler planes. I am having the Short Stirling built by a friend as I just don't have the room for a 74" wing on my bench. I hope to get the plane back soon and start the finishing process. I'm not looking forward to trying to man-handle the large parts as I'll spend part of my time just fixing the dents and dings that they'll get while I sand and do other finishing tasks. I am already working on a few different methods for the finish to see what is compatible and how it will look on the plane. As I don't have fuel to deal with, I am going to try water based acrylics. If that fails, then its back to dope and spray paint. The goal is to have the plane finished this summer with test flights complete by the end of July. I may have it done earlier but that depends on my friend. He has already taken 5 years to get it this far and he has back problems so no telling when that will go out.

Alas, the Wellington mentioned in this thread is no more. Sometime in 2007 I was trying some rudder turns and it stalled. I was able to pull it out but it was in a bad location near the road and I had poor visibility, so I just dumped it. I shattered the right wing half and punched in the nose. It was not repairable and trying build a new wing just was not something I wanted to do. I did learn a lot about how Frank Baker designed and built this planes so subsequent attempts had some changes. We're adding sheeting to the Stirling's wings and made the nose removable so I can mount the batteries in the nose. The expectations is that I will actually loose some weight by better using the weight of the batteries and motors to compensate for the long fuselage instead of lead ballast.

Enough for now, I hope to keep up on the forums for a while so you should start to see a few more posts from me.

Ron
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:51 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rfzl View Post
Cub Pilot,

I've been away for some time due to work, other interests, and just plain tired. I've not stopped building or flying but just not at a very fast pace. As to your comment, yes I am very much into building and converting glow planes into electric. I have an extensive background in electronics and have a life long interest in electric motors and power systems. I have my degrees in math and physics with particular emphasis on electromagnetism. This, along with a knack for understanding electric power systems, I find that using electric motors is more natural for smaller planes. Almost all of my current planes use 3-4s packs with capacities of 1000mah to 4000mah. With these I fly 1/2a to .40 size planes with flight times around 9 minutes and a motor run time around 7 minutes. Since I do many touch and goes during my flights, the motor is off for a good percentage of the time so the difference between flight and motor run times.

I choose to concentrate on multi-engine planes just because no one else was. I like being unique and building any plane from plans fills that bill as there are so few builders around. Plus, multi-engine designs seem to be of more unusual subjects and plans are still out there. Unless you've flown multi-engine planes, you will not truly appreciate how different they fly or how much fun the are. Nothing gets people asking question than showing up at the field with an old glow plane converted to a twin or a nice scale bomber or transport plane.

As for doing a conversion, that depends on the plane. If you have done any building from plans, you will know that plans vary in their accuracy and completeness. Since I have built over 100 planes in last 20 years, I have picked up a few tricks. The biggest thing in doing a conversion is to understand that the weight will no longer be concentrated in the engine but in the motor/battery combination. Planes like bombers and multi-engine designs lend themselves to being powered by electric. They are easier to set up, don't need fuel proofing, and you can make hatches or removable noses without the issue of fuel getting all over. The current brushless motors and LiPo batteries are so varied that one can find a direct replacement for any glow motor or change things up to use a larger prop or pitch and still be able to fly. Multi-engine planes really gain from being able to counter-rotate the props so going with 2-4 motors no longer has the problem of torque from having all the motors turn the same direction.

I mentioned that I had several plans from Frank Baker and was planning to build them. That has not happened as some of the plans have been destroyed from water as has a couple of air frames I started. This kind of got me out of building complex projects and I stayed with smaller, simpler planes. I am having the Short Stirling built by a friend as I just don't have the room for a 74" wing on my bench. I hope to get the plane back soon and start the finishing process. I'm not looking forward to trying to man-handle the large parts as I'll spend part of my time just fixing the dents and dings that they'll get while I sand and do other finishing tasks. I am already working on a few different methods for the finish to see what is compatible and how it will look on the plane. As I don't have fuel to deal with, I am going to try water based acrylics. If that fails, then its back to dope and spray paint. The goal is to have the plane finished this summer with test flights complete by the end of July. I may have it done earlier but that depends on my friend. He has already taken 5 years to get it this far and he has back problems so no telling when that will go out.

Alas, the Wellington mentioned in this thread is no more. Sometime in 2007 I was trying some rudder turns and it stalled. I was able to pull it out but it was in a bad location near the road and I had poor visibility, so I just dumped it. I shattered the right wing half and punched in the nose. It was not repairable and trying build a new wing just was not something I wanted to do. I did learn a lot about how Frank Baker designed and built this planes so subsequent attempts had some changes. We're adding sheeting to the Stirling's wings and made the nose removable so I can mount the batteries in the nose. The expectations is that I will actually loose some weight by better using the weight of the batteries and motors to compensate for the long fuselage instead of lead ballast.

Enough for now, I hope to keep up on the forums for a while so you should start to see a few more posts from me.

Ron
Hi Ron The Best Paint I have found for foam and everything else is Testors Spray Enamel Paint, the foam safe one, Acrylic Water Based Paints tend to be Heavy, and adds a lot of weight to a plane IMHO, I have tried a lot of Different Paints, and this one is the Best IMHO, Take care and have fun, Chellie


I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:08 PM   #14
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Welcome to the site Ron!

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

Don
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:50 PM   #15
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Thanks for the info, Chellie. I have used the Testor's paint but they are messy when doing a large project. Water based paint can be used in my shop where I can control things. As I expect to air brush the colors, I can keep weight down over using a rattle can. I have a plan, just need to verify that things are compatible and flexible before I start on the airframe.
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