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Hi-Performance and Sailplanes RC hotliners, electric pylon racers, F5B, F5D, sailplanes and gliders

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Old 10-18-2009, 10:49 PM   #1
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Cool What do you recommend for a first slope plane?

A friend, a friend of a friend, or someone on this forum asks you about slope soaring. After some discussion they find that they are interested and ask your advice for a first slope glider.

1) What questions do you ask before making a recommendation?

2) Do you recommend an electric glider ( this is Wattflyer afterall ) or a pure glider?

3) Foam, wood, glass, ?

And what advice do you offer to help them be successful on their first trip to the slope?

Assume this person will not be your student and you will not be there to help them. They are going it alone.

So, what wise council do you offer?

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Old 10-19-2009, 02:45 AM   #2
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Depends on the slope.

Where I slope at the beach I would recommend a foam powered glider like the Easy Star so you can get out of trouble when the lift runs out or you get too far away to make it back.

For over the ground slopes any of the classic unpowered gliders are fine like the bird of time or even the newer Alula.


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Old 11-11-2009, 01:36 AM   #3
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Looks like we have almost no slope pilots here.

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Old 11-11-2009, 03:09 AM   #4
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Yea I guess not.

Another thing regarding your original post about advise is that you have to stay over the slope. The slope IS what is giving you lift and if you go too far out from it, it will disappear.

At the beach I tell the newbies or people that are just interested to watch the birds, they only flap their wings when they are out over the water or behind the slope.

In this video from 2:45 till 7:15 is flying purely off of the wind coming up from the slope, at 7:15 I turn out to sea and you can see how much the lift decreases and I had to hit the motor to gain it back.

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Old 11-11-2009, 05:35 AM   #5
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The range from the slope varies greatly based on the hill and the wind.

I have one slope, a 75 foot hill that faces the Long Island Sound. When the wind is coming straight in at 10+ mph, I can fly out at least 200 feet and have no problem maintining altitude at 50 feet above cliff height. In other areas I can hang out further than that.

The range of the "pressure zone" or the depth of the "wave" is very dependent on the hill and the wind.

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Old 11-27-2009, 05:23 AM   #6
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Any other thoughts on slope planes?

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Old 11-27-2009, 05:46 AM   #7
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Default slopers

I recommend the Easy Glider for a beginner. Its a good trainer, it can slope slow enough for the novice flyer, or can be weighted up for some fast action. Repairs are very easy and quick. Most damage I see is a bent nose. Thats an easy fix with boiling hot water. Other damage can be fixed with epoxy. I am not sure how many people slope off of dunes, but those who do know that water kills the lift away from the shoreline. Off of hills or mountain slopes, I have found lift as far away as a half mile, with a nice breeze up the slope. I dont use electric off slopes, so it makes ya work alittle harder to keep her in the zone. I would then recommend the electric version of the Easy Glider if you want that added benefit. And, of course..its a superb thermal chaser.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:02 AM   #8
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you did say Beginner

This is the GWS Pico J3-SG Slope Glider Model. / For beginner to intermediate fliers. / / FEATURES: Construction: Foam wing and tail surfaces with a wooden stick fuse / Wings: 2-piece, wings and tail section are pre-colored yellow / Boom: Spruce wood 22" (560mm) long and 1/4" (6mm) diameter / Radio Compartment: Black plastic holds servos and battery / / INCLUDES: One GWS P-stick glider airplane, tube of assembly glue, miscellaneous / plastic parts used in construction and instruction manual. / / REQUIRES: 2-channel radio with mini receiver and receiver battery / Two Nano servos / / SPECS: Wingspan: 41.3" (1050mm) Flying weight: 4.76-6.7oz (135-190g) / Length: 26.6" (675mm) / Wing Area: 263 sq in (16.8 sq dm) / kpm10/07/2004


http://www.amazon.com/J3-Stick-Slope...9308805&sr=1-7

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Old 11-27-2009, 09:05 AM   #9
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Now, this is what I would like to have I also Like the Talon

Slope Stream



The Slope stream was designed as a fast and cool looking plane.One that tracks very true (straight and solid) I love the way this plane carves a turn,and really performs in the vertical axis. It will go straight up and just keep going!
starting with an idea of what were nice curving outlines,curved tips, both tail and wing, With fully blended Leading edge strakes, and wings that had a very distinctive shape. The designed has a very smooth and stylish blended vertical fin.With very large wing fillets, that when viewed from the top, kinda pointed to the nose like an arrow. I am really happy the way that the plane looked when finished. It also lends itself to some great paint schemes.
The original prototype finished out at about 55oz
weight, and a wing loading of 36oz per sq in.! Needless to say,
it really moves.


Short kit $150.00 plus shipping
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The Talon, but its not a beginers plane


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Old 11-27-2009, 09:18 AM   #10
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or even the Gental Lady or Sig Riser for the beginner

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DN%26um%3D1


Gental Lady



Sig Riser



My Advice would be, DONT DO IT ALONE , even gliders are hard to fly for a beginner, next would be, get a Simulator, and Practice, Practice, Practice, next, I would say, always add up when turning, dont turn to sharp, next would be, keep it close to you, you only have a limited area of lift on a slop, and thats close to the slope, next, dont let the plane get over your head, next, if the plane wants to get away from you, from to much wind, add down and bring it in right towards you, next would be, keep your speed up, speed = Control, those would be my suggestions

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Old 11-27-2009, 12:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TM4197 View Post
I recommend the Easy Glider for a beginner. Its a good trainer, it can slope slow enough for the novice flyer, or can be weighted up for some fast action. Repairs are very easy and quick. Most damage I see is a bent nose. Thats an easy fix with boiling hot water. Other damage can be fixed with epoxy. I am not sure how many people slope off of dunes, but those who do know that water kills the lift away from the shoreline. Off of hills or mountain slopes, I have found lift as far away as a half mile, with a nice breeze up the slope. I dont use electric off slopes, so it makes ya work alittle harder to keep her in the zone. I would then recommend the electric version of the Easy Glider if you want that added benefit. And, of course..its a superb thermal chaser.
I tend to agree with the Easy Glider. A very versitile and forgiving first thermal or slope glider.

I often take new parkflyer pilots to the slope with their parkies. Super cubs, Aerobirds, T-Hawks and many other small electrics do fine on the slope in mild to moderate conditions.

A lot depends on the landing area. Many slope have small or rocky or otherwise challenging landing areas. So foam planes are usually my first recommendations for people who don't have a plane to fly on the slope.

One of my slope sites requires either a motor or a hi-start to get the plane out to the lift so my slopers, even my Zagi wing, have tow hooks.

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Old 11-27-2009, 06:13 PM   #12
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I WANT that Slope Stream for Christmas!!! way to go Chellie....get everyones blood pumped up again! Thats beautiful! Probably need a G-suit to fly that one or at least flying goggles
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by TM4197 View Post
I WANT that Slope Stream for Christmas!!! way to go Chellie....get everyones blood pumped up again! Thats beautiful! Probably need a G-suit to fly that one or at least flying goggles
Yes, Thats a beautiful plane huh I have a few Rc projects to get done first, then i will get that Slope Stream

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Old 12-05-2009, 05:34 PM   #14
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I've recently started slope soaring, along with a couple of other park filers. We got fed up with being grounded when it gets too windy for powered flight.
The most experienced pilot in our group uses a flying wing, so that's what we got - J Perkins Zagi and SAS Venom.

They are both around 4' span and 20 ounces. They fly great in winds between 15 and 40mph, with ballast when the wind gets over 25mph. It's possible to fly in stronger winds, if you add enough lead - up to a kilo (36 ounces) for winds that'll blow you over.
These wings are designed for combat, so they are tough. After a bad landing (and we get a few, when the wind speed is high) you just chuck it into the air again.

Living on a peninsula (West Cornwall, UK), we have half a dozen great slopes within 20 miles. Something for every wind direction except easterlies, which we rarely get.
Most of the sites are cliff tops or dunes, so you get a great sea view while you are flying.

Even though we could all fly, none of us went solo first time out. It's probably just a psychological thing, but throwing a glider off a cliff is quite scary. You need to understand how the lift works, and how to land. Swinging round in a big arc behind you, then nosing down to land close to your feet is a lot harder than landing a powered plane on a flat field.
Having an experienced pilot talk you down the first couple of times is a great help.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by clockworks View Post
I It's probably just a psychological thing, but throwing a glider off a cliff is quite scary.


And its all mental. The first time I gathered the muster to toss my Harlequin off the cliff with all my other glider bros, it was HUGE. I was scared outta my brain, and no one else wanted to go first.

SO, I toss... off it goes.... 10 seconds later, in less time than it took me to remember to breathe, the fear was GONE.

Its far easier to follow a slope back and forth to catch lift all day long than high-start after high-start searching for lift. For me, it was a NEEDLESS FEAR! If the wind is blowing, and you can fly it via a toss or high start, then slope soaring is far, far easier IMO.

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Old 12-05-2009, 08:37 PM   #16
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It does take some rocks to throw your pride and joy off of a cliff for the first time, up the street from nitro here we throw them off a cliff at the beach. There's nothing but LOTS of water to land in if you cant make it back.

My brother was telling me that he saw a guy who was obviously new at flying standing on the slope changing is plane and TX from hand to hand not sure which one should be in which hand when he launched. Needless to say he threw his transmitter over the cliff and held onto the plane when he launched.


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Old 12-05-2009, 08:58 PM   #17
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1320, my first toss was at the end of Eastgate mall rd, about 2 miles inland from Torrey Pines. None of us had the 'rocks' to to to TP at first. 2 hours of flying at Eastgate, then we drove to Torrey Pines. We all looked like pros and never admitted to anyone that it was our first day there.


Sloping is awesome in storm winds. I love it. Standing on the cliff, facing
'Ma Nature', putting every ounce of ballast in your plane you can find, and just GOING FOR IT!

Kiks butt.

Some of my earlier Slopers:

TALON (built from scratch)
P-51 Penetrator (still have it)
Pilot Harlequin (got that one too)

But, if ya ask me, flying at Torrey Pines is just not visitor friendly. Used to be $0.50 per day for a visitor to fly. It aint like that now for sure. Big club dues, big visitor fines (yeah its not a fee, its a FINE) makes my 1 or 2 trips per year cost prohibitive. I am not gonna dump $300 a year for 3 days at the cliff. Screw Dat. I belong to enuf clubs now.

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Old 12-05-2009, 09:28 PM   #18
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We're going to St. Agnes, Cornwall, tomorrow - one of the best soaring sites in the UK. 300' slope with a large, flat, landing area behind the cliff top. The parking lot is at the top of the slope, less than a minute from the launch area!

Best of all, there's a "bunker" about 4' deep that throws the wind over the top of your head - you can stand in relative calm while your soarer's doing battle with the elements.

Wind is forecast to be 30mph, with 45mph gusts. Just hope the rain holds off.
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:10 AM   #19
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A big slow Foamie with a rudder and elevator....

NO AILERONS for a first plane...

Ohhhh!!! And a BIG bottle of CA glue.

I actually think he should start out on a 2 channel thermal glider before he steps up to the slope. They're more forgiving and you don't have to fight as hard if the conditions on the slope are not perfect.
The true slope plane are much too fast and unforgiving to be used as a trainer or first glider.

The thermal gliders work real well on the slopes. The two "Chellie" noted above are good examples of these types of planes.

I'd also offer to buddy box with him if he were my friend. But first I would suggest he get on the simulator and learn to "fly" that before he even thought of going out and doing the real thing.

Going it alone, I think the poor guy will destroy his plane and give up on the hobby after his first
session.

The best part of flying at Torrey Pines is when you can't get enough lift to get your plane back to the bluff. You get to land on Blacks Beach and hike down to where the naked people live. (Reference to Nitro Blast's post)


Check this out...http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211753
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:52 AM   #20
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I was looking at slope soaring last year but other things got in the way but I ended up get a kit built Great Planes Spirit Elite.
Something I could high start and slope.
After looking at different planes on the net and buying a book on model design I found that slope soarers have a low aspect wing to a thermal glider.
Alot of hotliner's I've seen have an un-powered version for slope soaring.
After reading alot about the problem landing on the slope makes me want somethng less fragile than the Spirit Elite.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:11 AM   #21
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Interessting stuff.
I didn't realize slope planes were so fast.:o I'm always learning here. thanks..

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Old 02-15-2010, 07:26 AM   #22
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heck, we pulled the props off, and threw an old parkzone spitfire and a newer t28 off the cliff, they did fine...LOL

I'd second the easystar, it'll be nice to have that power to bring it back if you get it out of the lift....LOL

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Old 02-15-2010, 07:32 AM   #23
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The Hawk Sky is the best push motor glider out there ... even outperforms the Easy Star when it comes to gliding. So if you're interested in something with a motor ... I recommend it.

$130'ish (including shipping) RTF ... and it comes brushless with ailerons.

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Old 02-15-2010, 08:48 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Huffy01 View Post
I was looking at slope soaring last year but other things got in the way but I ended up get a kit built Great Planes Spirit Elite.
Something I could high start and slope.
After looking at different planes on the net and buying a book on model design I found that slope soarers have a low aspect wing to a thermal glider.
Alot of hotliner's I've seen have an un-powered version for slope soaring.
After reading alot about the problem landing on the slope makes me want somethng less fragile than the Spirit Elite.

I don't know of any aspect ratio rule for slope gliders. Many people fly thermal duration gliders on the slope. The Elite would make a GREAT slope glider. In fact the Spirit 2M RES is flown on the slope by many people.

I have flown several parkflyers on the slope. My Aerobird did well. I have also flown an Easy Star, a T-Hawk and a F27 Stryker on the slope.

As for landing, that all depends on your site. I have 7 different slope sites that I fly.

One of them has a nice large grassy landing area. In fact I have to use a hi-start to get my pure gliders out to the lift as it is on the other side of a tree line. I fhave flown my fiberglass and wood thermal gliders and e-gliders at this site. I had to add a hook to my Zagi 3C in order to fly it at this site, so I could hi-start it to the lift.

Two of my sites have nice open sandy beach aeas. The launch areas are low, close to the beach, so I can hand launch into the lift, but easily walk down to the beach to land. I wouldn't hesitate to fly my woody thermal gliders at these sites.

However my other sites have less attractive landing sites. Rocks, bushes, or hard paved parking lots for landing areas. These lend themselves more to foamies that can take some abuse from the asphalt or can be landed in low bushes or brush without being damaged. I have even flown my GWS A6 warbird at one, since the landing gear lends itself to the parking lot landings.


Originally Posted by Airhead View Post
Interessting stuff.
I didn't realize slope planes were so fast.:o I'm always learning here. thanks..
Slope gliders are like other gliders. There are fast ones and slow ones. It is all a matter of taste and style. However unlike thermal soaring, where the lift is usually weak and elusive, depending on your site, slope lift can be wide and abundant and right in front of you. So you can use that lift to build up speed, if you wish. But you can also fly a relaxed flying plane like a Parkzone Radian.

It is all up to you.

I would think hotliners would make fun slope planes, with or without their motors. You just leave the motor turned off when you are in the lift. No need to remove it or leave it out.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:50 AM   #25
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The book I bought was "the basics of R/C model aircraft design" by Andy Lennon.
On page 23 there is a table of power/wing loading and aspect ratio's for model planes, 8-10:1 for slope gliders and 10-15:1 for soaring glider but the biggest diffence in the two is the wing loading.
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