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Old 04-26-2015, 12:12 PM   #1
solentlife
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Default Reconstruction of EF EXTRA 58" after catastrophic crash

This Model has been subject of significant work on my part after I bought 2nd hand. Previous owner had crashed her ... but repairs were OK. Over time various errors came to light - insufficient power for 3D, replacement engine breaking, odd hinges cracking and sheering, digital servos going crazy, wheel pants loose ...

The list was literally endless until recent - when I revamped her with better engine. But the Jinx was unfortunately still there and on 25 April - she sheered elevator hinges ... and crashed straight after a beautiful clean take-off .... the mess was just tear-jerking.

I retrieved as many of the bits and pieces I could - even down to the smallest ... so I could attempt a Jigsaw puzzle rebuild.

OK- I know this an Electric based forum - BUT the rebuild is a) of principally an Electric model converted to Glow, and the wood framework construction is common to E as well as fuel type. The repair methods will be applicable to those who worry about crashing a wood model ....

So here she is back at home :



This is the main glue I will use to keep weight down ... (generic PU glue) :



Bottle GG by the side ... mines 3x sixe and half price !!

OK onto first days work :

Start separating the 'whole' parts and seeing whats loose / cracked / solid ...



Start rebuilding ... locking sections in ... not surprisingly Chinese joints have come apart in places !!









Weights / clamps etc. to prevent foaming PU glue from deforming structure.

Now I have front section back as a useable frame - I can start adding the pieces from the jigsaw bag !

Nigel

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Old 04-26-2015, 12:35 PM   #2
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dang nigel,

that really stinks and i personally thank you for doing a rebuild thread here at wattflyer and am subscribed to follow along. i know you bring life back to planes others[me]would give up on and commit to the dreaded black plastic body bag.

i also crashed my 540t edge 2 years ago and it was repairable by sheeting the inside sides of the fuse to hold it together....of coarse it weighs a bit more than the repair should but i still enjoy fantastic aerobatics with it.

don't feel alone in the crash,i lost my blade 350qx yesterday do to total power loss and wrecked it pretty good.broke 2 motor booms completely off. may try a repair do to a fellow wattflyer offering a free body replacement they have and aren't going to use.[way to go Hillbillie!].

a good thread on fuse repair is just what i need to motivate me.

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:59 PM   #3
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Thanks by ... Yes I know I'm famous for refusing to BIN models that others would throw out ! I can only suppose that all those years of Balsa bashing had me rebuilding anyway !

OK ... here's the bit that most people give up on ... NOT me !! The bag of bits ...



So sifting through we can identify parts by 'colour', thickness, shape and whether other fragments are glued to them.

as many know - I am not a CA fan ... but in this - piecing fragments together it reigns supreme. It allows small bits to be fitted together - ZAP with CA and basically put back together part of or even whole ... here I salvage wing root parts. These are VITAL to realign the wing as the CF rod and pins are specific to these wings and shape,

This part gives me the Leading Edge pin and locks sheeting ..



Now we ZAP the LE fragments and you can see the front section of rib + the pin ..


Onto the actual wing ... here are the two wing halves - you can see one has already had me jigsaw piece together most of the rib and its perfect repair of original .. the CA parts mated into wing with PU glue to fill any gaps / provide lightest strongest repair. The short missing strip will be replaced with scrap balsa CA'd into place.





The internal structure of one wing has split and fragmented ... this will be hardest part of wing repair. But as I have wing root - I can fashion thin depron rib parts to insert and bridge the broken ribs - support wing sheet. These will add near enough zero weight instead of using balsa or ply.
One trick - is to 'dribble' PU glue into place ... the really small bottles are grea for this as they have a small application nozzle.

Second - try not to remove too much covering ... just 'peel back enough to be able access the location. Initially I expected to have to recover / do my own cosmetics on this after repair - but in fact - I reckon I am going to get away with original scheme still in place. The fuselage is actually not so hard as its straight film lines / strips ... Wings covering are still good.

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Old 04-26-2015, 02:06 PM   #4
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Looking forward to the trim flight sir! Subscribed.

I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but Iím not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

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Old 04-26-2015, 02:32 PM   #5
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Old 04-26-2015, 02:40 PM   #6
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Subscribed as well,
Its amazing the little tips you can pick up on some of these re-builds. I have learned quite a bit from Nigel and his repair. A case in point we had a gentleman crashed his p47d at the club field. He thought for sure it was a total loss. He was going to bin it when I told him it was fixable. He kinda scoffed and said if you fix it you can have it. Well I took him up on half the offer I fixed it up and gave it back to him at the next club meeting. He has been flying it like a champ since. I know I used some of Nigel repair tips on this repair and without his tips I may too have said" yep its a total loss".

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:42 PM   #7
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I'd have had a bonfire

I'm sure it can be fixed good enough to fly again. Trouble is for me personally it would just be too ugly for me to be happy with it. Every time I looked at the battle scars I'd get depressed.
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Old 04-26-2015, 04:29 PM   #8
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This one is pushing me to the limit in some areas ... the fuselage joint where the main wing / front part has sheared of from the stringers has me going at moment.
My usual fix here - is to add back the old stringers and lay in Liteply longerons as well ... its stronger and keeps shape. Trouble here - the stringers are missing ... so fuselage bottom is going to be guess-work ... AND I need to find a way I can join front and back sections with strong enough joint to keep straight while I reframe bottom.

OK ... moving on ...

Start on rear fuselage fracrtures :









As you can see here ... the joint of the two main pieces is going to take some refashioning of parts ...







My initial thoughts are for a foam plate to be attached to the flat framework where canopy goes. That will jig and align the upper section ... bottom section will need new stringers fitted, these in 2mm liteply ... with greater 'depth' to give strength. Original stringers are 4mm square ... so I reckon 2mm x 6mm liteply will be more than enough. My 4mm ply is too heavy. I could strip pine into 4 x 4mm ... but again I think the liteply better.

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Old 04-26-2015, 04:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I'd have had a bonfire

I'm sure it can be fixed good enough to fly again. Trouble is for me personally it would just be too ugly for me to be happy with it. Every time I looked at the battle scars I'd get depressed.
It has crossed my mind !! But after all the time and effort put into her BEFORE the crash ... I just cannot bring myself to bin it.

She will fly again ... as to whether she will ever 3D ? That's debateable.

Nigel

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Old 04-26-2015, 05:03 PM   #10
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Nigel
That is a real challenge.
My only concern with such a repair on that type of structure is you are going to rely heavily on the glue strength as the cross section of the individual pieces is small.

Nevertheless I can't wait to see the final result.
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:47 PM   #11
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Nigel, you are a true hard core modeler, like me. I have rebuilt smashed planes that were given to me by someone that couldn't rebuild it. Comes in handy as I can't afford to buy this type of plane new.

I have that exact plane you are rebuilding, if you would like some detailed photos of anything, please tell me and I will take then and send them to you, or put them on the forum.

Dave R, Proud PGR rider.
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You become a master at repair.
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:56 PM   #12
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OK ... one of the tricks I showed on a previous thread - was using a scanner and the laser cutter ...

Now this is the quick way - laser. But the principle can be applied to manual cutting etc.

The main front section has various parts of framework missing on one side, with most of other side ok. So I place section on scanner bed ... scan to JPG .. import jpg to the laser and cut a new frame to match. Replaces the missing side.







Nigel

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Old 04-26-2015, 11:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
Nigel, you are a true hard core modeler, like me. I have rebuilt smashed planes that were given to me by someone that couldn't rebuild it. Comes in handy as I can't afford to buy this type of plane new.

I have that exact plane you are rebuilding, if you would like some detailed photos of anything, please tell me and I will take then and send them to you, or put them on the forum.
Actually that might just be the ticket ! So please keep checking back - I may just need a photo or two !


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Old 04-26-2015, 11:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by quorneng View Post
Nigel
That is a real challenge.
My only concern with such a repair on that type of structure is you are going to rely heavily on the glue strength as the cross section of the individual pieces is small.

Nevertheless I can't wait to see the final result.
For fuselage - replacement parts are 2mm liteply but doubled. So first bridges the gap, second bridges the joints as well....

Hopefully that and using deeper section liteply as stringers will make her strong.

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Old 04-26-2015, 11:19 PM   #15
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What about the cowl and canopy? The fibreglass cowl might be repairable but a smashed plastic canopy less so.

As the airframe is discontinued spares might be scarce now which doesn't help.
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
Nigel, you are a true hard core modeler, like me. I have rebuilt smashed planes that were given to me by someone that couldn't rebuild it. Comes in handy as I can't afford to buy this type of plane new.
...
You know, I have been thinking the same thing today. So many people don't see that the building of these planes is a hobby in and of itself. There was a day when you HAD to build it yourself or commission another craftsman to do it if you wanted to fly. In these days of one-and-done ARF's and disposable aircraft, building has become almost a lost art.
ARF's are fun, but a stick and covering job, with that damned warped wing , is much more rewarding to fly in my opinion.

Nigel, never change.

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Old 04-27-2015, 07:46 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
What about the cowl and canopy? The fibreglass cowl might be repairable but a smashed plastic canopy less so.

As the airframe is discontinued spares might be scarce now which doesn't help.
The cowl surprisingly is well repairable. Matter of CA the splits, back up with lightweight silk and resin. Fill the areas where gel coat has come away. One way to do that is not to use car filler, as it tends to crack out ... but use foaming PU glue. You can sand it to shape easily. It sticks like proverbial to a blanket. Its lighter. Takes paint well.

The canopy - the shop who sold me the model originally have a spare canopy - but will hold back on that till I see model actually repairs up OK. The old one is actually not so bad either. Its useable to maiden the model.

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Old 04-27-2015, 07:57 AM   #18
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The matter of this fuselage joint - lay awake last night turning over ideas on this.

The inner tray that carries Rx, rudder servo locks into the forward tray and rear section. That will help align and add some strength.

But the stringers are badly smashed and formers missing. I'm thinking to add a second 'tray' to sign and fix the two sections together. To have notches to lock onto new farmers of my own design. This second tray can be 6mm foam with 2mm liteply. I did think of fashioning 4mm ply into similar to old. But I need to find a way to lock the two sections while glueing up.

Will get back on this.

Nigel

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Old 04-27-2015, 04:30 PM   #19
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ok ... second day and follow on with formers :











Wing root tube and ribs ..





Inserting foam replacement ribs 6mm depron :







Canopy taped up as initial test job - if successful - I'll buy the new one in shop they have as spare ..



Few nickws and scrapes ... holes plugged ..



Just jigged wings to fuselage section and the bad wing has a very slight down angle ... a wafer thin card glued along bottom of root rib will cure that. Apart from that all lines up nicely. I will need to insert replacement pieces to wing root rib to complete that wing. I may even slice and splice to correct the angle.

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Old 04-27-2015, 04:53 PM   #20
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Credit to you for the rebuild Nigel, but I'm superstitious enough to have just binned it as it seems truly jinxed.

Perhaps sprinkle some holy water over it to break the spell
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:24 PM   #21
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Jinxed ... I know - but we are gluttons for punishment and I WILL NOT BE BEATEN by a model !!

If nothing else ... I hope it shows people that all is NOT lost when that explosion of balsa happens !
I know most people know the tricks already of repairing ... but there are some new to the hobby that maybe they can pick up and use.

Cheers
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:27 PM   #22
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Ok - This wing root needs bits and pieces ... as I don't want to lose the spacing / setting of pins etc. So its cut / splice / glue ...



Not pretty but it will be strong enough once filled / sanded etc. The black is the ash from the laser ...



This basically concludes the wings apart from putting the covering back in place ... luckily I have same red in my stock.

Nigel

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Old 04-27-2015, 10:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
If nothing else ... I hope it shows people that all is NOT lost when that explosion of balsa happens !
I know most people know the tricks already of repairing ... but there are some new to the hobby that maybe they can pick up and use.

Cheers
Nigel
Neat thread!
THANKS for taking your time to do it!
I think it definitely does a service!

Regards
Jimmy
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:19 PM   #24
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Nigel:
You are right, you can rebuild, and it should still perform. When I raced quickies, there was always a person who had only one plane and there would be crashes. Well, racers would actually sit down and get together with spare balsa, super glue, hardwood, covering and tuck tape and rebuild the guys plane within an hour or so. Many times, they would have it re-built before the next heat and the guy would be back in competition.
The nice thing about racers was the trash talks stops and it is your skill in flying that places you at the finish line. A good group of guys.
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:45 PM   #25
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Ok .. lets carry on !

Today I've decided that I am going to get that fuselage together if it kills me ... !!

Here's the task .... splintered longerons, formers half missing ... so I've fashioned similar formers myself and inserted ...



Even fashioned a pseudo top rail !



Now you see the task :



First we join the top rails :



I had to hold it for 5 mins to get epoxy set enough to just use tie-wrap !!



Once epoxy set ... make the cross piece for rudder servo platform fastened in place - again with epoxy ... tie wraps to hold it, flip her over :







She's straight !

Now the trick will be to fashion deeper spines to run along the longerons as doubling ... to add replacement spliced in longerons from pine strip ....

So far - I'm actually quite pleased ...

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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