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Old 06-28-2013, 07:54 PM   #1
dereckbc
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Default Apprentice Rubber Band Size

Anyone know what size rubber bands the Apprentice uses?

Hate to pay hobby store premium prices and prefer an office supply store. They come in NUMBERED SIZES like 32 and 64.

THX

Dereck
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:00 PM   #2
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Personally .. I wont use Office Supply bands ... I prefer Ben Buckell model bands .. yes not cheap - but they last ... I'm still using bands over a year old ...

They are wider - kinder to the wing

They are stronger - no wings lifting while flying

They outlast normal bands by a wide margin.

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Old 06-28-2013, 08:45 PM   #3
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#64 is the standard size commonly used for our models... but 134 or 65 would be better for the Apprentice (and for most places we use #64...)
I'm not sure what comes in the Apprentice's box.
http://www.lee-rubber.com/sizes.htm

Depending on composition alter the number of bands used. Gum stretches a LOT but is stronger.

Office supply might have any of several different composition bands.

"Gum rubber" is very stretchy and needs more bands to prevent shifting, but they survive glow fuel for more repetitive uses... if cared for well.

The typical hobby grade bands use 2 per lb plus 2.

Because the bands are cheap and ALL types are degraded by exposure to glow fuel you should not re-use ANY that are exposed to glow fuel. Done for the day = cut them off and dispose of them.

All bands are also degraded by UV exposure. When used on electric models and re-using the bands you can check for cracking, discoloration and other signs of the bands needing replacement.

Store the bands in a cool dry place and in a container you can not see through. Heat and light damage rubber. (including car tires... but the black compounds used are designed to resist light and heat better than rubber bands)

You can't make a blanket statement about what bands might be found at office supply stores. Those from any source will be available in differnt packages through office supply stores. Some of the really good office supply stores will have 4 or more types of bands in each size they carry.
Some office supply stores you can specify EXACTLY the band you want (size and composition) and they will order them for you, (minimum order quantity may apply)

You also can't predict what bands will be in the box from Hobbico... Same label box 3 different types of rubber from 3 boxes.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
#64 is the standard size commonly used for our models... but 134 or 65 would be better for the Apprentice (and for most places we use #64...)
I'm not sure what comes in the Apprentice's box.
http://www.lee-rubber.com/sizes.htm

Depending on composition alter the number of bands used. Gum stretches a LOT but is stronger.

Office supply might have any of several different composition bands.

"Gum rubber" is very stretchy and needs more bands to prevent shifting, but they survive glow fuel for more repetitive uses... if cared for well.

The typical hobby grade bands use 2 per lb plus 2.

Because the bands are cheap and ALL types are degraded by exposure to glow fuel you should not re-use ANY that are exposed to glow fuel. Done for the day = cut them off and dispose of them.

All bands are also degraded by UV exposure. When used on electric models and re-using the bands you can check for cracking, discoloration and other signs of the bands needing replacement.

Store the bands in a cool dry place and in a container you can not see through. Heat and light damage rubber. (including car tires... but the black compounds used are designed to resist light and heat better than rubber bands)

You can't make a blanket statement about what bands might be found at office supply stores. Those from any source will be available in differnt packages through office supply stores. Some of the really good office supply stores will have 4 or more types of bands in each size they carry.
Some office supply stores you can specify EXACTLY the band you want (size and composition) and they will order them for you, (minimum order quantity may apply)

You also can't predict what bands will be in the box from Hobbico... Same label box 3 different types of rubber from 3 boxes.
Thank you. Apprentice is electric as I am sure you now. Rubber bands are cheap and will use fresh new bands for each day out.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:37 PM   #5
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#67 or #69,, #64 way to small.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rodneh View Post
#67 or #69,, #64 way to small.
I agree that 64 are smaller than should be used. But its what 99%+ will use to replace the original bands.

Its the size that somehow became "standard" for RC models. Probably because its an easy size to get. Even Wal-Mart has #64.

We've been using #64 and stretching them across 10 to 12 inch chord wings for over 30 years. That's a LONG stretch for those bands and just pulling them that far damages them.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:18 AM   #7
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I've always used #64's,but I pre-stretch them by putting them over the back of a kitchen chair.Throwing them away after 1 use is simply wasteful.Mine last for anything up to 20 flights.
As mentioned,they need to be stored in an airtight and dark container.I also throw in some talcum powder,and give it a good shake.
I use 3 bands per side,so there is a safety factor if 1 breaks in flight.The last pair is crossed from side to side,this retains all the bands on the pegs.
When used on an electric,I imagine you might get more flights,because the rubber is not attacked by fuel.My$0.02.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:09 AM   #8
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I always used two #64 together. Then I used more of them to properly secure the wings. Worked great. If you kept them out of the sun the lasted pretty well.

I hated using one and sometimes they even damaged the wing structure.

But I hate rubber bands - and they really don't work for their intended purpose anyway. I never had a crash where the wing just popped off with no structure damage to the wing or fuse.

So I always retrofit wings for bolts.

Mike
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
#64 is the standard size commonly used for our models... but 134 or 65 would be better for the Apprentice (and for most places we use #64...)
I'm not sure what comes in the Apprentice's box.
http://www.lee-rubber.com/sizes.htm
Hey, bands from that same company, Lee Rubber, a woman owned business (that's their tag line, you gotta love that) are available that are UV resistant, designed for outdoors 24hrs 7days a week use! They show them used in a garden and they're available in most sizes.

Lee Rubber makes you buy at least, what is it? 7 pounds? of rubber bands at a time but I bet they'd tell you who resells them.

The UV resistant bands might just be worth looking into.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:40 AM   #10
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The bands did protect the wing (somewhat) from damage when used with the front dowel(s) pointed forward.

Very "old school" but seen in some current sailplanes.

*************

The UV resistant compounds are usually not good for our purposes. Less stretch and often less tensile strength.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by DHC Beaver View Post
I've always used #64's,but I pre-stretch them by putting them over the back of a kitchen chair.Throwing them away after 1 use is simply wasteful.Mine last for anything up to 20 flights.
As mentioned,they need to be stored in an airtight and dark container.I also throw in some talcum powder,and give it a good shake.
I use 3 bands per side,so there is a safety factor if 1 breaks in flight.The last pair is crossed from side to side,this retains all the bands on the pegs.
When used on an electric,I imagine you might get more flights,because the rubber is not attacked by fuel.My$0.02.
Chalk dust is the medium to lubricate and keep bands good ... which is the base product in talc.

My 60 powered 4kg biplane uses 6 Ben Buckles each wing .. as you do - 2 each side straight ... last 2 in X to also retain the others on the dowel ends.

Fuel is a killer of the bands .. but use of the chalk dust significantly reduces the degradation ... to such point that in fact UV is the worst on them.

I regularly go through my supply of bands checking for signs of cracking, splits, degradation and break those that do ... but as I said before - the Ben Buckle bands are not cheap but given that I am still using most after a full years use on both electric and glow .... I reckon that's good economics.

Office bands ? Not needed thanks ... apart from little ones to hold on canopy's, battery hatches etc.

Nigel

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Old 06-29-2013, 02:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
So I always retrofit wings for bolts.

Mike
Yup, Its been awhile since my models used rubber bands. But I also modified them for plastic bolts before flying. Usually not to hard to do, but you do have to reinforce inside the wing where the front and back bolts wind up. Reinforcing the wing where its covered by the fuse works out fairly well. I just put in solid blocks of balsa where the bolt goes through. And, glue it in with some yellow Titebond type glue.

Last week, we had a guy flying his model when it really did some very strange stuff. Didn't take long for fellow modelers to recognize what was wrong, and yelled at him to cut power and land right now. The wing was lifting up against the rubber bands.

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Old 06-29-2013, 03:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Yup, Its been awhile since my models used rubber bands. But I also modified them for plastic bolts before flying. Usually not to hard to do, but you do have to re-inforce inside the wing where the front and back bolts wind up.
All easy when it's a monoplane and wing sits in a nice saddle ...

I know the designer / kit maker of my 60 biplane ... and we were talking about modifications to bolt on wings ... but by time I'd considered the extra to cabanes - they are piano wire ... and the surgery needed to modify wings ... I chickened out !!
The bottom wing would be simple ... re-inforce with blocks in the wing, dowel in front ... blind nuts in fuselage ... but top wing ... not so easy.





Here just for photo ...








The strange fact is that the BANDED wing requires no interplane struts, but with bolts that were with the final kits and some modifications - struts were installed. Why ? The bands provided ' hold down' across the chord of the wing over doubled ribs. This meant wing was well supported and stress spread. But bolts produced pin point stress points and had no spread of the ' hold down' across the chord... so interplane struts were introduced to bring bottom wing into support role for top.

I still consider ways to change to bolts .. straps across under the cabanes ... u saddles, p clips ... all sorts but at end of day - she flies well as is ... easy to dismantle and transport ... and no undue mount strain on wings.

And because of this thread - just ordered another 36 BB 6" bands at approx. $20 ... the lot - another more than a years supply ... he even does clevis for 1.8mm rods !

Nigel

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Old 06-17-2014, 04:56 AM   #14
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Default These work great !

Alliance Red Packer Band - Size #69 Heavy Duty Rubber Band (6 x 1/4 Inches) - 1 Pound Box - Approximately 110 Bands per Pound (96695)
by Alliance

These are about a inch longer and about 1/6 " wider.
They work great .
Amazon has them in stock.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:58 AM   #15
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I buy my #64's at walmart. you gotta go through them to make sure they haven't sat on the shelf forever before you buy them though. 4 rubber bands each wing on my slow stick bipe have lasted probably close to 2 years id guess, but i change them out a lot when i swap wings and break the plane down.

on the glow stuff i use the expensive stuff. fuel eats the office supply type way too quickly.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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