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Old 07-13-2014, 05:58 PM   #1
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Default Electrostik for first plane?

Being a total newb I joined a local club and I am trying to learn with an instructor.

They were very down on foamies and the Apprentice in particular. The club policy is if you learn and get licenced using a park flyer that is all you will be allowed to fly. If you want to move onto some thing else you have to start all over again with an instructor and buddy box.

Following their advise I bought an Electrostik.

I have become very frustrated with progress and started to feel like I am spending most of my flight time chasing the plane. I found controlling it to be a bit sensitive. I am beginning to wonder if this may be a bit more plane than a for a total newb should be learning on.

So the question is, Keep fighting the plane or find a new club more accepting of of some thing like the Apprentice?
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:14 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by thumbs View Post
Being a total newb I joined a local club and I am trying to learn with an instructor.

They were very down on foamies and the Apprentice in particular. The club policy is if you learn and get licenced using a park flyer that is all you will be allowed to fly. If you want to move onto some thing else you have to start all over again with an instructor and buddy box.

Following their advise I bought an Electrostik.

I have become very frustrated with progress and started to feel like I am spending most of my flight time chasing the plane. I found controlling it to be a bit sensitive. I am beginning to wonder if this may be a bit more plane than a for a total newb should be learning on.

So the question is, Keep fighting the plane or find a new club more accepting of of some thing like the Apprentice?
Very rigid and unfriendly set of rules.....first time I've ever heard of such from a public or private AMA sanctioned club....especially the Apprentice snub for newbies.......

Sounds like a bunch of old timer balsa/gasser types......and seems way to exclusive for my taste.........there's got to be several other AMA sanctioned clubs in the New York area that cater to the newbie foam aspect of flying......I'd look around.

The certifcation issue seems a little "over the top" as well........two clubs I frequent have requirements for additional certifications as one progresses through flight training and seperate high wing/low wing, jet, heli and quad flight training instructors.......can't be that much different at other well established AMA clubs outside of Calif......?

I can understand flight restrictions based on aircraft type due to field location and size.......but seperate cert's for each craft outside of a parkflyer (wonder what they consider a "parkflyer".......ridiculous.........!

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Old 07-13-2014, 07:14 PM   #3
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My advice: Try to find another club. Skills you learn on a foamie are easily transferred to a balsa plane. In fact, once you graduate to bigger planes, you'll find that they are easier to fly than a foamie. The apprentice is a perfect beginner plane. Forgiving, durable and easy to repair, yet capable of all maneuvers, including basic pattern aerobatics.

That being said, I'm not sure an Electrostick would be the best choice for a first balsa plane. They're usually quite fast and, as you stated, you'll spend your time chasing the plane.

To the officers of the club, I'd like to ask this: Are you trying to kill the club? To keep a club alive and vibrant, you have to bring new members in and you don't do that by enforcing arbitrary rules that only serve to create an elitist clique.

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Old 07-13-2014, 07:41 PM   #4
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I fully second the advice of finding a different club.
Gasser balsa snobs at their worst.
Also, the electrostik is a terrible plane to learn on. Too fast with no self righting capabilities. Any decent instructor would never attempt to teach someone to learn with that plane. I'm surprised they didn't make you build it from a kit first.

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Old 07-13-2014, 09:05 PM   #5
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If they absolutely want you to fly balsa, why don't they recommend something like this?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...SEgaAnmC8P8HAQ



It's an old proven design and you can make it electric if you like. But maybe they consider that a "park flyer" too? In that case, is any high-winged plane a park flyer? What about a scale cub?

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Old 07-14-2014, 03:09 AM   #6
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I agree with the others in that you need to find another club. Like you, I'm a newbie to the hobby and visited 2 clubs before I made my final decision. Either club would have been a good fit so it came down to where they fly. Luckily both clubs embrace all kinds of planes . My instructor may pull out one of his foamies and fly it a while then grab his 3 D and fly it. If there is anything they're leery of, it's the SAFE technology the Apprentice has but then that's understandable for a bunch of older men.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:41 AM   #7
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First time I have heard of a club limiting you based on the type plane you start with. Its very common now for beginners to start with 3 or 4 ch foamie electric package deal setups similar to (or even less capable than) the Apprentice.

The Apprentice is as capable (or more capable) as any traditional glow power trainer.

I'm not a fan of the AS3X training system because it can teach some bad habits but that's a different issue.

There is the issue of the "Park Flyer" vs "Open" AMA membership which could limit what you can fly at the club field... "Park Flyer" membership limits you to smaller relatively slow models for the insurance to be valid.
(Not 100% sure if AMA plans to continue the Park Flyer program, since its generally been a bust.)
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:02 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post

There is the issue of the "Park Flyer" vs "Open" AMA membership which could limit what you can fly at the club field... "Park Flyer" membership limits you to smaller relatively slow models for the insurance to be valid.
(Not 100% sure if AMA plans to continue the Park Flyer program, since its generally been a bust.)
Personally, I dont see why anyone would go with just the Park Flyer program unless the only place they have to fly is inside or a really tight outdoor space. I do realize there are people who are really into the micro planes and heli's but you get so much more with the open program and if you want to go small you're still covered.
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by thumbs View Post
Being a total newb I joined a local club and I am trying to learn with an instructor.

They were very down on foamies and the Apprentice in particular. The club policy is if you learn and get licenced using a park flyer that is all you will be allowed to fly. If you want to move onto some thing else you have to start all over again with an instructor and buddy box.

Following their advise I bought an Electrostik.

I have become very frustrated with progress and started to feel like I am spending most of my flight time chasing the plane. I found controlling it to be a bit sensitive. I am beginning to wonder if this may be a bit more plane than a for a total newb should be learning on.

So the question is, Keep fighting the plane or find a new club more accepting of of some thing like the Apprentice?
Electrostik? Yikes, that would be a "Fun" model to learn to fly on.
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products...gpma7500m.html

Methinks you'd be better off with a Piper Cub type of foamie airplane for the first model. That Electrostik would be very easy to roll upside down during flight, and the newbie would be in real trouble. Much harder to roll a high wing Piper Cub type model to inverted.

As for foamie models, they are available from real easy to fly, to 100 MPH plus guided models. Funny thing, I was talking today with a fellow club member with an $8000 giant scale model with a big twin cylinder engine up front. He indicated he has just as much fun with a little foamie.

You can pile in a foamie, and as often as not, be able to fix it and fly again. Do that to a giant scale model, and, its get out the credit card, and start over.

Now, with flying a small foamie model, IMHO, they are harder to fly than some of the larger models. So, an aileron equipped foamie model such as the Piper or similar type unit would be a good way to start out.

Just my opinion.

Question on the Electrostik. Did your instructors set it up with dual rates and exponential? If not, they should have.

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Old 07-14-2014, 04:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by thumbs View Post

So the question is, Keep fighting the plane or find a new club more accepting of of some thing like the Apprentice?
Just saw this thread on the Apprentice. Take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74008

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Old 07-14-2014, 06:07 AM   #11
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Stick clones have been considered good trainers for over 35 years... My second 4 ch RC plane was a "Das Little Stick" in 1976, with no such thing as expo on anything except the extremely high end radios back then (we thought the "new" switch to do servo reverse on the TX was a wonderful thing).

That Electrostick is not a bad airplane.

The Apprentice will fly circles around it in every way...
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:15 PM   #12
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I'd run, don't walk from that club. Strike up another win for the old guard...have to fly a certain type of plane, and then get "licensed". Ugh.

OP if you shoot me an a-mail I'll put you in touch with a guy I met recently who is a fantastic ambassador for this hobby, and he's based close by you I believe. I don't know if he is on this site, but he is on RCG and RC Universe. His name is Dr E, and I'm sure he can set you up at a club.

The apprentice is perfect to learn on, hands down. It can get bounced around a bit in wing, but it's still a great plane.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:26 PM   #13
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Thanks for the advice and quick answers every one.

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post


Question on the Electrostik. Did your instructors set it up with dual rates and exponential? If not, they should have.
On my personal radio, yes, but the instructor holds that and on the club's buddy box (appears to be an older analog radio with out much in the way of adjustments). I have notably more throw and faster response from the control surfaces.

That being said, I will be looking and visiting the other island clubs again. For now I guess the stik and this club would not be the best fit for me at this level of my flying.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:01 PM   #14
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Then they're setting you up for failure. What radio do you have? There may be a way to set it up so the buddy-box gets the same rates and expo as the main TX. IIRC, Spektrum radios, for example, can either feed the "raw" signal from the buddy box to the servos or pass it though the rates and expos you have set up on the main. You need the latter setup.

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Old 07-14-2014, 08:17 PM   #15
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Default Electrostik for new flyer!

Wow, I had a similar flying-club experience as yourself. I just finished my training on my instructor's high wing Hobbico Nitro plane at my flying club. (I started flying last October.) In parallel, I bought a Parkzone T-28 for flying in our local park. I learned to fly with these two planes. Recently, I bought an Electrostik and am enjoying it.

For beginners, the Electrostik is definitely a challenge to learn on. After 50 or so flights, I am just beginning to get comfortable with it. The T-28 is a much more forgiving plane to learn on.

So, what to do?

1. Get a T-28 foamie or trainer as discussed by others
2. Continue flying the Electrostik with a buddy-box instructor

Why?

1. The Electrostik will be the better plane in higher winds (my T28 can't taxi in more than 10mph crosswinds without tipping over, whereas my Electrostik has flown in 25mph winds). An instructor should keep you out of trouble and give you valuable experience in pattern flying on the bigger and faster planes.
2. I had a lot of fun flying the T-28 during low-wind early mornings in the park and started basic acrobatics. I had several misshaps such as tree landings with only minor repair needed.

Electrostik Advice:
1. Don't use too much trottle! It can fly very nicely at 1/2 to 2/3rds throttle and will not be too twitchy.
2. Use the Control Throws recommended in the manual! Fly the plane with the low throw settings with 40-60% Expo

Hope this helps and happy flying!

Trust, but Verify!
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Wrongway-Feldman View Post
I fully second the advice of finding a different club.
Gasser balsa snobs at their worst.
Also, the electrostik is a terrible plane to learn on. Too fast with no self righting capabilities. Any decent instructor would never attempt to teach someone to learn with that plane. I'm surprised they didn't make you build it from a kit first.
One thing about this sort of model for a "Trainer". After a few instruction type flights, IMHO, most often the newbie will have the most problems during landing. With the Electrostik type of model, if a wrong aileron command is given during the landing approach, you've got a model that is nearly instantly upside down, and close to the ground.

Other trainer type models such as the apprentice would be more forgiving, and a "reverse" aileron command often will give enough time to realize what happened, and correct it before hitting the ground.

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
One thing about this sort of model for a "Trainer". After a few instruction type flights, IMHO, most often the newbie will have the most problems during landing. With the Electrostik type of model, if a wrong aileron command is given during the landing approach, you've got a model that is nearly instantly upside down, and close to the ground.

Other trainer type models such as the apprentice would be more forgiving, and a "reverse" aileron command often will give enough time to realize what happened, and correct it before hitting the ground.
Too right. Things can happen very quickly with a stick. That being said, I remember some plans from a few years back that allowed the choice of adding dihedral to the wing with no change to the fuselage. One could build 2 sets of wings. One set with dihedral and larger wing area, and one set of sport wings. A stick like that would have been a great trainer. Once skills improve you could move on the sport wings.
Similar to the concept of the flyzone switch or the mountain models EVA.

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Old 08-13-2014, 02:15 PM   #18
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There are many many club on the world. I hope you can find place that match on you.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:33 PM   #19
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Quick update. Found another club with a good training program. A little father away, a bit breezier.

First day out and got 7 flights in. Several instructors all ready and happy to take a student up. Flew in winds of 12 mph plus with the Apprentice (ok I cheated ... in intermediate setting).

Never flew better in my life.

Found a new home.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:52 PM   #20
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Thumbs up for Thumbs!

Often, club strangeness is more about a desire to keep outsiders out than having a good training program. Good move there.
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