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Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft Discuss and share your scratch built or kit built aircraft as well as building techniques, methods, mediums and resources.

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Old 08-05-2014, 01:08 PM   #1
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Default Open sorce airplane

I want to build a model airplane that uses a standardized components. Much like a Lego airplane. If you want a high wing airplane then you use the high wing module. If you want a low wing airplane you use the low wing module. Having different modules for trike gear or conventional landing gear. Maybe a module for a v-tail and another for a pusher engine.
I think you get the idea.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:16 PM   #2
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Can work for foamies... For traditional construction the "open architecture" airplane would necessarily be overweight to allow for the modules.

The "Switch" shows that it can work for foamies with minimal added weight simply because all of the foam is structural.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:00 AM   #3
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Default thinking outside of the box a little

Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Can work for foamies... For traditional construction the "open architecture" airplane would necessarily be overweight to allow for the modules.

The "Switch" shows that it can work for foamies with minimal added weight simply because all of the foam is structural.
What if we try something new?

I have been playing with bamboo barbaque skewers. You can get 100 of them from walmart for $1.00 .
You can't see the display on the scale but a one foot section of fuselodge only weighs 1.1 once or 28 grams if you think in metric.

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Old 08-06-2014, 10:55 AM   #4
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A different style construction often opens new possibilities.

Foam opened possibilities that just didn't work with traditional wood frameworks. Laser cutting lite ply opened other possibilities.
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:04 PM   #5
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In fact it's not such a new idea as initially appears .... there were odd kits years ago that could be built one way or another ... with one in particular having a fuselage with banded on tail parts ... the fus was symmetrical and could be flipped round ... all you had to do was flip the wing over and band on the tail ...

It didn't last long though !!

As to bamboo BBQ skewers - been using them as longerons and spars for years ...

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Old 08-06-2014, 01:39 PM   #6
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Default History. (Combat)

The way I came up with the idea of the open source airplane is a group of us started flying slowsticks in combat. We soon needed a reliably source of parts. Some of th parts that were failing were motor mounts, the fiberglass stick, and the landing gear. So to keep the carnage going I started to 3D print spare parts. It was not long and we were improving the origanal parts by making them stronger.

Here is an example of an improved GWS motor mount. The black motor mount on the left is a broken GWS motor mount. The motor mount on the right is a 3D prind repacement that is much stronger.



This motor mount was so weak that sometimes the motor mount would break instead of the propeller. Often the screw that held the motor mount in place would split the fiberglass stick.

The blue 3D printed motor mount just doesn't break unless it is a really bad crash.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:10 PM   #7
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One reason for the weak slow stick mount was weight savings. Powered as originally designed and flown the way it was intended it worked just fine.

They didn't really intend it for the abuse of RC combat though.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:16 AM   #8
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It might just be me and its up to you if you want to build this interchangable thing but its more weight and more construction on the planes. With the price of motors and esc's coming down i just buy a new one of both for my builds. So are you planning to having the servos in this thing and will still need to program the plane you put it in every time.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:47 PM   #9
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The GWS Black plastic mount is in fact a pattern mount and sold by many ... HK ... RCTimer ... etc.

I use these on high speed high power as well as low speed floaters. I have never had one sheer or break - even with serious thrust and crashes.

I have had the alloy ones break though in much less !

Given you can buy them in a bag for cents ... is it really worth it ?

What about converting to the flat plate stick mount that HK and others do ? Instead of the mount being slung UNDER / OVER the stick - it's a flat plate firewall mount with stick insert in the centre rear. This puts prop hub dead centre of stick and removes any offset thrust issues. It's also light and strong.

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Old 08-07-2014, 06:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
The GWS Black plastic mount is in fact a pattern mount and sold by many ... HK ... RCTimer ... etc.

I use these on high speed high power as well as low speed floaters. I have never had one sheer or break - even with serious thrust and crashes.

I have had the alloy ones break though in much less !

Given you can buy them in a bag for cents ... is it really worth it ?

What about converting to the flat plate stick mount that HK and others do ? Instead of the mount being slung UNDER / OVER the stick - it's a flat plate firewall mount with stick insert in the centre rear. This puts prop hub dead centre of stick and removes any offset thrust issues. It's also light and strong.

Nigel
I agree with you Nigel . I dont know why he has thrust issues you can mount them with side and down thrust with a little carving and shiming . joe
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:35 AM   #11
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Default Motor Mounts

That brings up one of the next improvements that I made to the new motor mounts. As many of you already know the slowstick motor mounts have no down or side thrust in them. It is also hard to carve the fiberglass stick. What is really easy to do when the motor mount is 3D printed is to make slight changes in down thrust. So what I have done is made motor mounts with down thrust built in. So far I have completed 9 motor mounts starting with -1 degree down thrust, then -2 degree down thrust, then -3 degree down thrust, all the way down to -9 degree down thrust. I have not yet flown these mounts yet but when I do I will report back on which one worked the best.

But let's say we want a low wing airplane? We might need up thrust. Again it wont be hard to make changes to the amount of up thrust.

We already buy props with different diameters and pitches why not motor mounts with different thrust angles? Perhaps we will soon be able to buy motor mounts like we do props. " I'm using a 5x3 motor mount" meaning -5 degrees down thrust and 3 degrees right thrust.
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Old 08-09-2014, 07:18 PM   #12
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Default "LEGO Plane"

The idea is to build the pieces that any builder can turn into almost any airplane. Depending on how you stack the bricks so to speak. I will try to add bricks as I can and help anyone who wants them to obtain them. I also would like to invite anyone who has ideas to help. Right now we have some ideas that foam is the way to go? So what do you guys think? Is it?
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:31 PM   #13
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Foam is a POSSIBLE way to go. Not necessarily the best way. Its simply been proven already that you can have a plane that can have 2 different configurations quickly interchangeable without excess weight penalty by using foam.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:14 PM   #14
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AMA 928214
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:17 AM   #15
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Default weight

This picture shows the built in down thrust of 4 degrees.

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Old 08-10-2014, 04:16 PM   #16
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Default Motor Mounts and Weights

When I went to get a Slow Stick Motor Mount I found a couple of broken ones in the flight box. So they do break. If you use an APC prop a lot of times they break with one prop stike. If you couple that with the weak landing gear that comes on a slow stick and combat you go through a lot of motor mounts. My 3D printed mounts are a lot stronger and all weigh 5.8 grams and have down thrust. One of the things that make 3D printed parts so useful is you can make changes so easily. You can also change your print density from 0 to 99%. So you can pick your weight.






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Old 08-10-2014, 10:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by RepRapper View Post
That brings up one of the next improvements that I made to the new motor mounts. As many of you already know the slowstick motor mounts have no down or side thrust in them. It is also hard to carve the fiberglass stick. What is really easy to do when the motor mount is 3D printed is to make slight changes in down thrust. So what I have done is made motor mounts with down thrust built in. So far I have completed 9 motor mounts starting with -1 degree down thrust, then -2 degree down thrust, then -3 degree down thrust, all the way down to -9 degree down thrust. I have not yet flown these mounts yet but when I do I will report back on which one worked the best.

But let's say we want a low wing airplane? We might need up thrust. Again it wont be hard to make changes to the amount of up thrust.

We already buy props with different diameters and pitches why not motor mounts with different thrust angles? Perhaps we will soon be able to buy motor mounts like we do props. " I'm using a 5x3 motor mount" meaning -5 degrees down thrust and 3 degrees right thrust.
The only time i have ever used up thrust if it was a pusher and sometimes alot of up thrust .The back of this pusher fuse has 2 degrees up thrust built into the back firewall . I understand your trying to make a stronger motor mount but its for a stick mounted motor witch alot of us dont use anymore. I use plastic tube standoffs or just mount mine to a ply firewall with the down thrust already there or i can use washers to shim it. I can see where striking a APC prop and breaking the motor mount could happen on a mounting system that was mainly made for thin slow flyers props. joe


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File Type: pdf Canard Stick Fuselage.tif.pdf (1.10 MB, 15 views)
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:51 AM   #18
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Default Contibute to the open source plane

I am not trying to tell anyone on here what to do or not to do. All I have presented here is what I am doing so far.

What I really want is to know if there are peices missing that you might want developed.

The idea got started whil flying Slow Sticks in combat but it does not need to end there. I don't see any problem with using foam or balsa or plywood. These are all great and I think we should use them all. The skewers were just an idea, so were the arrow shafts. Its all good.

I intend to make parts that would make mounting foam easier. And yes let's make a lot more then one type motor mount. Why not make them all? Then upload them to thiniverse or get hub?

Let's share our designs, some day I hope we will all have access to a 3D printer and a laser cutter, and a foam wing cutter and maybe a CNC router. There pretty expensive for just one of us to own but isn't that why we have clubs? Why not get one guy building foam wings? Maybe another making landing gear? Someone else doing motor mounts. Maybe someone could come up with a really easy way to make wheels?

Does this sound impossible? Its happening right here in Utah. And you know what? ITS FUN!
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by pizzano View Post




They look a little heavy good luck getting them to fly!
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by RepRapper View Post
I am not trying to tell anyone on here what to do or not to do. All I have presented here is what I am doing so far.

What I really want is to know if there are peices missing that you might want developed.

The idea got started whil flying Slow Sticks in combat but it does not need to end there. I don't see any problem with using foam or balsa or plywood. These are all great and I think we should use them all. The skewers were just an idea, so were the arrow shafts. Its all good.

I intend to make parts that would make mounting foam easier. And yes let's make a lot more then one type motor mount. Why not make them all? Then upload them to thiniverse or get hub?

Let's share our designs, some day I hope we will all have access to a 3D printer and a laser cutter, and a foam wing cutter and maybe a CNC router. There pretty expensive for just one of us to own but isn't that why we have clubs? Why not get one guy building foam wings? Maybe another making landing gear? Someone else doing motor mounts. Maybe someone could come up with a really easy way to make wheels?

Does this sound impossible? Its happening right here in Utah. And you know what? ITS FUN!
I have a friend with a lazer cutter from china i think and one with a cnc machine but iam old school and enjoy cutting foam parts out by hand. I can make cardboard templets so i always have them and cut out most foam planes in a couple hours once you done alot of them it goes fairly fast. I do enjoy watching guys who tinker with new machines and build new parts so keep it up . I built my own foam cutting bow and use a electrict train transformer to power it . Formica templets to run the wire over and i also have a home made vacum former box using a shop vac pull the plastic down and electrict heater to warm up the plaastic. You new guys i have some hope for with 3 -d printers and computer ran machines but when you get in a pinch remember to go old school on it. lol joe
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:13 AM   #21
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Default The Switch is an interesting plane.

Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Foam is a POSSIBLE way to go. Not necessarily the best way. Its simply been proven already that you can have a plane that can have 2 different configurations quickly interchangeable without excess weight penalty by using foam.
I nearly bought a Switch when I first saw it. Thought it was a great concept plane. I had been thinking of something like it for a few years. Now I am trying to build something very similar. I am even going more basic and I hope with a few more options. Foam is a great way to go especially for wings. I used to cut a lot of wings for the club members and freinds.

Here is my idea for a low wing. The photo shows the lower wing mount with an upper wing mount.It still needs some tweeking.



Anyone want to try a low stick?
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:43 AM   #22
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Very interesting idea. How well can your laser printer make things? For example, can it create a wing like the one here made from balsa? That could help with understanding the capabilities and help answer your questions.

I couldn't post pics here on WF but I just now posted them on RCG so you can see them: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=14

Speaking of switchable airplanes, I used this regular airplane and made a canard style plane from it. The square tubing fuselage makes it easy to work with.

I think this is a great idea and look forward to hearing what you come up with. Innovation in this hobby is a wonderful thing and don't let anyone convince you that you can't do it.

Frank

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Old 08-11-2014, 04:32 PM   #23
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These guys have a line of planes with switchable foam power pods from one to another. joe http://flitetest.com/authors/FliteTe...te_high_to_low
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:50 PM   #24
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I like the way you think, RepRapper. Not only do you like to try new things, but you're community minded as well. Sharing our ideas and resources is the way to go, I think.

Using modern technology; lasers, 3D printing, CNC etc. will revolutionize the hobby. Sure, getting started is harder than picking up an Xacto knife and hacking away, but once you're up and running, so many more options are available.

I use CNC; I have a 3 axis vertical mill and a 3 axis CNC router. I like the way it allows me to cookie cut parts, (tweaking as I go, when necessary). I can make parts faster and more precisely than I could ever hope to, even if I was especially talented (which I'm not).

Watching this with great interest.

Tom
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:25 PM   #25
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The capabilities of a properly set up 3D printer or a laser cutter can be amazing.... The equipment to produce the modular aircraft shouldn't be an issue.

The issue will be coming up with the designs for the modules that will plug into each other.

Cost of the cutters and 3D printers still need to come down more before the average modeler (or any but those with larger modeling/experimenting budgets) will be buying them.
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