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Angler-Hi
08-24-2008, 05:28 PM
My good friend max2112 just brought this to my attention. There is a seller on ebay selling Cessna 206Ts. He pulled my video I made for floridawen (fellow watthead) and put it on his ad to sell these planes. I know it's ok to copy the link to show others the video, but it is there some kind of law about using someone's video to advertise a product without their permission?

Here's the link. If you scroll down you will see my video:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-RTF-BRUSHLESS-CESSNA-206-RC-AIRPLANE_W0QQitemZ190244341227QQihZ009QQcategoryZ2 563QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Tell me what you guys think. I'm not really mad because I do in fact have a high opinion of this particular plane. I'm a little shocked though that I was not asked if it was ok. That upsets me a little.

pd1
08-24-2008, 05:38 PM
I agree it would have been a better decision on his part to notify you and ask first.
I don't know if you would have any recourse since you don't have any damages.

Why don't you contact them, it is your work product. Maybe they could give you some merchandise or a check for using the video for their profit.

Paul

Angler-Hi
08-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Well, I think I will contact the seller, but I'm gonna read the terms and condition once more on Vimeo to see if there's anything I might have missed when opening an account with them. Thanks for the response.

dk_aero
08-24-2008, 05:55 PM
I wouldn't be surprised that if once posted on Vimeo (or Youtube, etc.) that the content becomes public domain (anybody can use it).

I did see that ad on Ebay and thought "Hey! I know that video!". It's a great video...

Angler-Hi
08-24-2008, 06:10 PM
I know they can watch it, but I'm not sure if they can "take" it to sell their business.

Pudknocker71
08-24-2008, 06:56 PM
I see your point but not sure it's worth worrying over. If someone buys the plane and uses your video to learn from, and has a successful flight, I would be honored. Just think of it as helping others get into the hobby. If you had been in direct competition with him, and he stole it from your site, I would be all over it too. He did give you proper acknowledgment for the video. I'd let it go.

$.02

dk_aero
08-24-2008, 07:02 PM
you might want to contact them and see if they'll send you some free merchandise for using the video... Tell 'em you'd like one of these -

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-L-39C-ALBATROS-4CH-RC-RTF-JET-PLANE-DUCTED-FAN_W0QQitemZ200246995242QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2563QQ cmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Tell 'em you'd be happy to make another video featuring this plane... :D

aviatordave
08-24-2008, 07:10 PM
I'd just pull the video from Vimeo and reload it. The link will change and he wont know what it is. Youtube has an option you can choose so that people cannot embed videos, vimeo may have that option as well. You will have to look at the edit options to be sure.

Angler-Hi
08-24-2008, 07:11 PM
I'm not mad at him using my video friend, and I am kind of proud that he chose mine, but It was a little awkward viewing the video as an advertisement agent. As long as it's legal, I'm a happy dude. I was a little aggravated at first, but I'm good now.

i reread the terms and conditions of Vimeo. It says that I am responsible for my own submissions (videos). They are public videos, but it never said anything about the way in which they could be used. Also, he didn't commit plagarism, which is all good. I don't think I have any worries here.

I am glad that there are people out there who may be able to learn from that video, even if it wasn't the greatest quality in the world. I just don't want anyone coming and looking for me if they crash a plane and claim they received the flying instructions from me!

aviatordave
08-24-2008, 07:27 PM
I understand your part, and that is 100% good. He on the other hand is making a profit off your good deed. I dont think you should let your good efforts help line the pockets of others. Besides if people want to research the plane they just google it and get all kinds of hits. Its your choice and you will do what you are comfortable with but I would prob pull it and change the addy.

aviatordave
08-24-2008, 07:33 PM
Well let me take that back. I see he titles it with your name, that makes things different. If someone gives you credit then it aint stealing (or whatever you want to call it)

I didnt notice the title before, my bad :)

Pudknocker71
08-24-2008, 07:57 PM
The guy also gave credit underneath the video too.

Can you go back and edit the video with a disclamer saying that this 4ch RTF is for for an intermediate pilot? That might make you feel better.

Angler-Hi
08-24-2008, 08:08 PM
If they read the "description" of the video, they will see where it says that this plane is recommended for beginner to intermediate pilots looking for an aileron trainer.

Bub Steve
08-24-2008, 08:24 PM
Darn good vid!! you should make more!! you've got a great video presents and should have your own RC Show,, I'd never miss an ap'piz'zoad!! Your bub, steve
http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/monkey/munkeh/tv.jpg

Angler-Hi
08-24-2008, 11:36 PM
darn good vid!! You should make more!! You've got a great video presents and should have your own rc show,, i'd never miss an ap'piz'zoad!! Your bub, steve
http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/monkey/munkeh/tv.jpg

roflmao!!!:q

Pudknocker71
08-25-2008, 12:33 AM
If they read the "description" of the video, they will see where it says that this plane is recommended for beginner to intermediate pilots looking for an aileron trainer.

I don't read instructions.:rolleyes::o (oops missed that)

Don Sims
08-25-2008, 12:46 AM
Steve, please quit sagging your britches while watching TV, I can't handle another crack attack...

FlyingMonkey
08-25-2008, 01:27 AM
i reread the terms and conditions of Vimeo. It says that I am responsible for my own submissions (videos). They are public videos, but it never said anything about the way in which they could be used. Also, he didn't commit plagarism, which is all good. I don't think I have any worries here.



Anything you create has an automatic copyright. It is illegal for them to use it in a commercial application without your expressed permission. Now, it's not like the copyright police are going to arrest the guy for using it. But you have legal leverage if you wished to pursue it.


Talk to the person that used your video. Obviously they liked it enough that they decided that it would help sell their products. You deserve compensation for that. Even if it was to work a deal with them, that they provide you with other products, the condition that you continue to make similar videos using those products.

FlyingMonkey
08-25-2008, 01:28 AM
http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/monkey/munkeh/tv.jpg



I need to get you an iron on flyingmonkey for your monkey's shirt.

CHELLIE
08-25-2008, 01:40 AM
My good friend max2112 just brought this to my attention. There is a seller on ebay selling Cessna 206Ts. He pulled my video I made for floridawen (fellow watthead) and put it on his ad to sell these planes. I know it's ok to copy the link to show others the video, but it is there some kind of law about using someone's video to advertise a product without their permission?

Here's the link. If you scroll down you will see my video:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-RTF-BRUSHLESS-CESSNA-206-RC-AIRPLANE_W0QQitemZ190244341227QQihZ009QQcategoryZ2 563QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Tell me what you guys think. I'm not really mad because I do in fact have a high opinion of this particular plane. I'm a little shocked though that I was not asked if it was ok. That upsets me a little.

Hi Mike :ws: well thats quite a Complement ;-) on your video, all original work, is copyright protected, this link may help to explain it for you, you may want to contact the seller, and let him know this, or take a 25% commision on all planes sold :D, Take care, Chellie

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 02:28 AM
Thanks a million Chellie! I read the entire thing. It says that nothing posted on the net is public domain unless i release it as such. It also states that anything I post (works of literature, videos, Etc.) is automatically Copyrighted. They need my expressed permission before they use it for their business. Even though they gave me credit for the video and didn't charge money for people to view it, it is still illegal. I have e-mailed them and am awaiting a response. I'm not concerned about taking a comission, but working with them as far as using their products and making easy "How To" videos would be kind of cool. I'll keep you guys posted as I progress this matter with the seller.

Mike

FlyingMonkey
08-25-2008, 02:40 AM
Thanks Chellie?


Darn you Mike, I said it first!!!


But, in Chellie's defense, she did post the link...

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 02:53 AM
The seller contacted me and we just finished having a discussion. I told him I had no problems with him using my video to help people interested in this hobby. As long as I get some kind of notice saying he intends to use such videos. I also told him that I have no problem with him using future videos I make as long as I am informed. he wants to give me a free plane! Here's what he e-mailed me:



<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Dear rratterman,

Hello Mike,

I was about to contact you when you first emailed me and you said "nice video" but I am not sure if you are Mike or not. Now that I am cure that you are Mike, I would like to thank you for making such a very nice video and a lot of people appreciate your work. Also the reason why I would like to contact you is because I want to offer you one of this package for free (just pay $30.00 shipping) if you would accept it as a token of our appreciation and would like to ask for your permission to use your video. I apologize for using your video without asking for your permission first but since it can be view publicly on the internet we made a link to it but mentioned your name as a courtesy. Once again thank you and hope you will still allow us to use your video. Thank you and regards,

- goldrust1
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

CHELLIE
08-25-2008, 02:56 AM
Thanks Chellie?


Darn you Mike, I said it first!!!


But, in Chellie's defense, she did post the link...

Thank You Fred :D Now Go Fly your planes :ws: and have Fun, Take care, Chellie

pd1
08-25-2008, 02:58 AM
Good outcome Mike.

CHELLIE
08-25-2008, 02:58 AM
The seller contacted me and we just finished having a discussion. I told him I had no problems with him using my video to help people interested in this hobby. As long as I get some kind of notice saying he intends to use such videos. I also told him that I have no problem with him using future videos I make as long as I am informed. he wants to give me a free plane! Here's what he e-mailed me:



<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Dear rratterman,

Hello Mike,

I was about to contact you when you first emailed me and you said "nice video" but I am not sure if you are Mike or not. Now that I am cure that you are Mike, I would like to thank you for making such a very nice video and a lot of people appreciate your work. Also the reason why I would like to contact you is because I want to offer you one of this package for free (just pay $30.00 shipping) if you would accept it as a token of our appreciation and would like to ask for your permission to use your video. I apologize for using your video without asking for your permission first but since it can be view publicly on the internet we made a link to it but mentioned your name as a courtesy. Once again thank you and hope you will still allow us to use your video. Thank you and regards,

- goldrust1

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Well, That was nice of them to do that :D Go For it ;-)

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 03:00 AM
LOL. Thanks Fred!!

FlyingMonkey
08-25-2008, 03:11 AM
Thank You Fred :D Now Go Fly your planes :ws: and have Fun, Take care, Chellie



Can't, tropical storm winds, and night time darkness...


all I have left is to complain about Mike.

Fortunately he is kind enough to provide me with ample reasons :D

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 03:21 AM
Can't, tropical storm winds, and night time darkness...


all I have left is to complain about Mike.

Fortunately he is kind enough to provide me with ample reasons :D

Hey Fred, speaking of the storm, how are you guys holding up out there?

ministeve2003
08-25-2008, 03:22 AM
http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

I think your video became Public Domain.... because you Published it without a copyright notice.... similar to if you published a book online without a copyright notice..

SK

CHELLIE
08-25-2008, 03:41 AM
http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

I think your video became Public Domain.... because you Published it without a copyright notice.... similar to if you published a book online without a copyright notice..

SK

Hi Steve :ws: I belive the Copyright is automatic with or with out the copyright notice, published or not. Take Care, Chellie

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Look at #1 and #3





<DT>
</DT>

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 03:54 AM
http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

I think your video became Public Domain.... because you Published it without a copyright notice.... similar to if you published a book online without a copyright notice..

SK

It's Copyrighted automatically, whether or not it says "Copyright". Nothing is public domain unless you specifically say it is.

groundrushesup
08-25-2008, 04:21 AM
Good that you were able to follow through and compromise on this, Angler.

One of the base tenets of media and copyright in the internet age is the doctrine of 'Fair Use', Not to get too off topic, I just wanted to drop in and post a link to a good explanation of Fair Use, the one that I use as a reference when vetting images and other various media snippets, actually - its a good indication of what you can expect from your publicly shared media in the future.

As a web developer, it behooves me to stay on top of this sorta thing, and its not often I can bring my real-world skillset into my hobby. ;-)

The Four Factors of Fair Use: Stanford Law Libraries Article (http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-b.html)

FWIW,
Gru

dk_aero
08-25-2008, 04:28 AM
From the Vimeo "Terms and Condition of Use" :

"You also grant each user of the Vimeo Technology and the Website a non-exclusive license to access your Submission through the Website and to use, copy, transmit or otherwise distribute, perform, publicly perform, create derivative works of, and display your Submission to the extent expressly authorized by the Connected Ventures on the Website and/or in this Agreement."

Also,

"Any Submission you provide to Vimeo will be deemed public information"

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 04:33 AM
From the Vimeo "Terms and Condition of Use" :

"You also grant each user of the Vimeo Technology and the Website a non-exclusive license to access your Submission through the Website and to use, copy, transmit or otherwise distribute, perform, publicly perform, create derivative works of, and display your Submission to the extent expressly authorized by the Connected Ventures on the Website and/or in this Agreement."

Also,

"Any Submission you provide to Vimeo will be deemed public information"

Public information has nothing to do with Copyrighted material friend. Just because it is available to the public doesn't mean that people can use that your permission isn't required to be posted on someone's site to sell their business. Public information is NOT public domain.

dk_aero
08-25-2008, 06:07 AM
I see Angler, you're absolutely right! This may be of interest -

http://www.thesitewizard.com/general/embed-youtube-video-copyright-matters.shtml

ministeve2003
08-25-2008, 06:20 AM
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html


updated... new laws effect public domain and Public Forums... otherwise it would have been Public Domain...

SK

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 01:22 PM
Thanks guys. I just got an e-mail from the seller. It seems he wants to send me a few new products he's carrying, test them out, write reviews and even make a few video, then I get to keep them. I sure hope I can hold up to his expectations...there is alot of responsibility that comes with what he's asking of me. I'll keep you guys/gals posted on how this goes. Thanks everyone.

FlyingMonkey
08-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Thanks guys. I just got an e-mail from the seller. It seems he wants to send me a few new products he's carrying, test them out, write reviews and even make a few video, then I get to keep them. I sure hope I can hold up to his expectations...there is alot of responsibility that comes with what he's asking of me. I'll keep you guys/gals posted on how this goes. Thanks everyone.

That's great!

sounds like the guy could have read THIS post....

Anything you create has an automatic copyright. It is illegal for them to use it in a commercial application without your expressed permission. Now, it's not like the copyright police are going to arrest the guy for using it. But you have legal leverage if you wished to pursue it.


Talk to the person that used your video. Obviously they liked it enough that they decided that it would help sell their products. You deserve compensation for that. Even if it was to work a deal with them, that they provide you with other products, the condition that you continue to make similar videos using those products.




nice wattflyer sticker in the video, I wonder if it brings any new people to the site.

Lieutenant Loughead
08-25-2008, 03:43 PM
Wow! That is a nice outcome! Sort of like getting "something for nothing". :D

If it were me, I would have been very happy that he credited me by name, and would have left it at that. :)

EDIT --> after watching the video, I must say, you're a good lookin' dude, with piloting skills to match! Obviously, you need your own show on The Learning Channel. :D Honestly, if I were selling that airplane on eBay, I probably would have stolen your video too! :cool:

Angler-Hi
08-25-2008, 07:11 PM
Wow! That is a nice outcome! Sort of like getting "something for nothing". :D

If it were me, I would have been very happy that he credited me by name, and would have left it at that. :)

EDIT --> after watching the video, I must say, you're a good lookin' dude, with piloting skills to match! Obviously, you need your own show on The Learning Channel. :D Honestly, if I were selling that airplane on eBay, I probably would have stolen your video too! :cool:

Thanks LT. I kind of stumbled on some of my word in that video though. It was my first instructional video. The next one I make will be made with confidence.

zoom505
08-25-2008, 11:01 PM
1. have a look atthe copyright clause on the web site upon which you posted the video.

2. He should have sought your express permission prior to posting.

3. My only concern would be if one of those planes hit somebody on the head and they joined you as a third party to the proceedings saying that you reccomended it to them....! Just some food for though.

3. With the best of will in the world, and great product that it is, and nice guy that the seller is, I would withdraw the permission to use my video for liability reasons.

4. In the age of HD the seller will have no problem posting his own footage.

sorry to break out the lawyer on ye... just food for thought from the other side of the Atlantic..

Angler-Hi
08-26-2008, 01:04 AM
No worries zoom. He just sent me a heli that's equivalent and compatable with the T-Rex 450. He'll be shipping out a plane on Friday as well. It will be nice to get these products, use them and write a review as well as make an occasional instructional video. I'm flattered that he wants ME to do this for him.

gfdengine204
08-26-2008, 01:19 AM
Wow! That is a nice outcome! Sort of like getting "something for nothing". :D

If it were me, I would have been very happy that he credited me by name, and would have left it at that. :)

EDIT --> after watching the video, I must say, you're a good lookin' dude, with piloting skills to match! Obviously, you need your own show on The Learning Channel. :D Honestly, if I were selling that airplane on eBay, I probably would have stolen your video too! :cool:

Geez Guy,

You flew with me in PERSON and never said I was a good looking dude......

Though I'm not so sure that's a BAD thing......(notice, I deliberately left out any mention of my flying skills, or better put, lack thereof.

max2112
08-26-2008, 01:20 AM
It's all karma, bro.

Good things happen to good people.

:)

Angler-Hi
08-26-2008, 02:34 AM
It's all karma, bro.

Good things happen to good people.

:)

Thanks John.

Lieutenant Loughead
08-26-2008, 05:21 AM
Geez Guy,

You flew with me in PERSON and never said I was a good looking dude......

Though I'm not so sure that's a BAD thing......(notice, I deliberately left out any mention of my flying skills, or better put, lack thereof.Gheez, Kev -- I don't want everyone to think I'm a fag, or something... :rolleyes:

LOL -- to be honest, I felt kind of funny saying that, in the first place... I ended up posting it, because I figured everyone here would take it as it was intended -- an honest compliment.

But, if you want me to tell everyone here that you and I have flown together, IN PERSON, and I think you're a great looking dude too -- AND, that I'll be visiting you in Chicago in October... Well, I don't care what anyone thinks -- because I love you, man. :D :cool: :D

FlyingMonkey
08-26-2008, 05:35 AM
But, if you want me to tell everyone here that you and I have flown together, IN PERSON, and I think you're a great looking dude too -- AND, that I'll be visiting you in Chicago in October... Well, I don't care what anyone thinks -- because I love you, man. :D :cool: :D

Tune in next week, when Kev says....


"Why did you leave out our trip to California to finalize our commitment to each other?"

All this and more, next week on Brokeprop Mountain.

Lieutenant Loughead
08-26-2008, 03:39 PM
Rotflol!!! :D

gfdengine204
08-26-2008, 11:26 PM
Gheez, Kev -- I don't want everyone to think I'm a fag, or something... :rolleyes:

LOL -- to be honest, I felt kind of funny saying that, in the first place... I ended up posting it, because I figured everyone here would take it as it was intended -- an honest compliment.

But, if you want me to tell everyone here that you and I have flown together, IN PERSON, and I think you're a great looking dude too -- AND, that I'll be visiting you in Chicago in October... Well, I don't care what anyone thinks -- because I love you, man. :D :cool: :D

When you put it like, that, well.......yer STILL not getting my Bud Light!

Tune in next week, when Kev says....


"Why did you leave out our trip to California to finalize our commitment to each other?"

All this and more, next week on Brokeprop Mountain.

OMG.....Brokeprop Mountain.....The ghost of Heath Ledger is NOT gonna be happy, Fred......:Q

Lieutenant Loughead
08-26-2008, 11:32 PM
Shoot -- I went out on a limb, and didn't get the response from Kev that I was looking for... :(

gfdengine204
08-27-2008, 12:54 AM
Shoot -- I went out on a limb, and didn't get the response from Kev that I was looking for... :(

I am hesitant to ask, but......

What response did you expect?

I love you too, man! :)

Lieutenant Loughead
08-27-2008, 05:20 AM
I am hesitant to ask, but......

What response did you expect?
Giggle giggle...

I expected you to be all freaked out that some homosexual was after you on the internet... :o

FlyingMonkey
08-27-2008, 12:21 PM
I am hesitant to ask, but......

What response did you expect?

I love you too, man! :)


he wanted your bud light, duh!

Pudknocker71
08-27-2008, 12:33 PM
So gays drink Bud Light? I didn't know that.

FlyingMonkey
08-27-2008, 12:39 PM
what's dring?

Pudknocker71
08-27-2008, 12:52 PM
It's drink with a g instead of the proper k. I make mistakes. I'm not perfect all the time.;-)