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solentlife
05-04-2014, 09:25 AM
Company computer has Windows 8 ... MS Office 2013.

It has all the transit records of the work ... we have ships and barges all working and I need to have this running all time to keep all inventoried.

Win 8 updates .. all seems fine. Yesterday I shut if off - I do that every few days to just give it a rest and also clear the crap that PC's tend to accumulate when left on.
Started it up few hours later ........ NO YOU HAVE TO BE ******* KIDDING !!

Bloody update destroyed all links to start Office Excel / Word etc. It also corrupted the exe Office files.

So for last 12hrs - it's been chuntering away on mobile broadband trying to do online repair ... with no end in sight.

Luckily I tend to keep back-ups .. I also can actually access the files .. just cannot start the spreadsheets .. so copied all across to my little Acer 0ne ... working fine there ... but the PoS Win 8 machine ?

Having been with Computers since the old days of Commodore's and BBC's etc. - I can honestly say that each version of Windows that comes out is crappier than version it's replacing ... what other software has so many updates and criticals ?

Nigel

thepiper92
05-04-2014, 09:53 AM
I've had no issues with windows 8, or 8.1 or 7. Also, look into ssd drives. You'll find that crap doesn't accumulate, at least it doesn't for me. I am using a 6 year old Samsung q430...beats all of these new ultra books and any MacBook I've tried. It was always great, but with ssd, even better, boots in 5 seconds, instant opening of programs, never corrupts anything. Only thing I don't like about windows 8 is how it is made for touch screen. Still functional tho.

Windows does have many updates, largely security risk stuff. Mac doesn't because viruses haven't been going for them yet (it's not because they can't be made for them)

solentlife
05-04-2014, 10:27 AM
I've had no issues with windows 8, or 8.1 or 7. Also, look into ssd drives. You'll find that crap doesn't accumulate, at least it doesn't for me. I am using a 6 year old Samsung q430...beats all of these new ultra books and any MacBook I've tried. It was always great, but with ssd, even better, boots in 5 seconds, instant opening of programs, never corrupts anything. Only thing I don't like about windows 8 is how it is made for touch screen. Still functional tho.

Windows does have many updates, largely security risk stuff. Mac doesn't because viruses haven't been going for them yet (it's not because they can't be made for them)

Its actually a false wives tale about Macs and Linux not having Virus .. they do.
Even Android has.

It's just less interesting for the authors to create for them.

The Pc affected is a company supplied Tosh notebook .. so it's not subject what I want.

I've got to like Win XP and 7 .. but 8 is crap .. particularly its video player. I much prefer VLC .. and I hate that Win 8 resists as far as possible any other app. It's great if all you want to do is interact with media .. but naff all use to serious work.
It's start screen is a joke .. it's way of getting to power off is laughable ... everything that was useful and accessible before is now hidden behind stupid keystrokes.

Nigel

dahawk
05-04-2014, 03:28 PM
The one thing that irks me most about MS is Internet Explorer. It sucks. I've switched to Chrome. Much better.

sidybee
05-04-2014, 03:49 PM
yup win blows is garbage ..LINUX is the way to go. and ya there r things that can get linux machines but you have to let them in. they cant just get in with out your say so.
micro crap is just that crap. but its the only thing most people know.

kyleservicetech
05-04-2014, 04:15 PM
Its actually a false wives tale about Macs and Linux not having Virus .. they do.
Even Android has.

It's just less interesting for the authors to create for them.

The Pc affected is a company supplied Tosh notebook .. so it's not subject what I want.

I've got to like Win XP and 7 .. but 8 is crap .. particularly its video player. I much prefer VLC .. and I hate that Win 8 resists as far as possible any other app. It's great if all you want to do is interact with media .. but naff all use to serious work.
It's start screen is a joke .. it's way of getting to power off is laughable ... everything that was useful and accessible before is now hidden behind stupid keystrokes.

Nigel

Agreed.
Case in point that danged bing crap windows installed on my PC during auto updates. It takes over your search and is near impossible to remove.

I assume you have clicked on the win desktop icon? That is all I use.

xmech2k
05-04-2014, 04:24 PM
I've learned to wait a day before letting it install updates. I figure if there are any issues with the updates, some other poor victim reported it and they've fixed it by then.

Wrongway-Feldman
05-04-2014, 05:28 PM
I personally haven't used windows for anything other than gaming since XP.
I use Linux for everything else and will run applications that require windows either through wine or an emulator.
The idea that windows is less secure than Linux or Mac is a myth however.
In all practical terms windows is actually much more secure. The problem is that most PC's run windows. So if you want the biggest return on your vulnerability exploits you aim for the biggest piece of the pie.
To put it simply, imagine two cars parked side by side in a parking lot. One car has simple locked doors and nothing of value visible through the windows.
The other has a myriad of security systems but a million dollars on the front seat.
The car with the money will continually get broken in to or have someone trying to figure out how.
The car without the money will statistically be more secure while in reality it is just less of a target. The car with the money is Windows.

thepiper92
05-04-2014, 05:46 PM
Its actually a false wives tale about Macs and Linux not having Virus .. they do.
Even Android has.

It's just less interesting for the authors to create for them.

The Pc affected is a company supplied Tosh notebook .. so it's not subject what I want.

I've got to like Win XP and 7 .. but 8 is crap .. particularly its video player. I much prefer VLC .. and I hate that Win 8 resists as far as possible any other app. It's great if all you want to do is interact with media .. but naff all use to serious work.
It's start screen is a joke .. it's way of getting to power off is laughable ... everything that was useful and accessible before is now hidden behind stupid keystrokes.

Nigel

So you can't get vlc installed or can't get it to be the default player? All I used is vlc. Yes, the power is in an odd place. Internet Explorer...yah just go to Chrome.

thepiper92
05-04-2014, 05:48 PM
Agreed.
Case in point that danged bing crap windows installed on my PC during auto updates. It takes over your search and is near impossible to remove.

I assume you have clicked on the win desktop icon? That is all I use.

Bing stuff trying to install was under optional updates, so I unchecked it.

thepiper92
05-04-2014, 05:57 PM
Honestly what I like about 8 is the background antivirus, which actually seems to works, so bitdefender, kasperskys, etc, isn't needed. There was windows defender before, but it had improved. It takes awhile to get used to 8, and some programs like IE are garbage, but it is a quick os. I can use Linux too, have installed it many times, but the one issue is that i like some games, and Linux cannot install a good chunk of them. Some do install through wine, but not too many. As for Mac...I don't see the point...1500 or more for a comp that doesn't have dedicated graphics (other than the highest end one), is slower than my 6 year old comp, and is running a completely restricted Linux.

solentlife
05-04-2014, 06:45 PM
So you can't get vlc installed or can't get it to be the default player? All I used is vlc. Yes, the power is in an odd place. Internet Explorer...yah just go to Chrome.

I have vlc on it and use it .. I default to vlc .. then days later it's back to crappy MS's rubbish... actually it's not even MS .. its a 'buy-in' ...

IE - I use as at least it's easy to disable IE's spying .. but Chrome has the biggest complaints board for User spying of them all .. I will not add my browsing to Googles information collection ... It's bad enough Googlle Private is most public airing of crap ever .. without adding to it.

I loved Netscape ... till that got knobbled.

The OS and Work programs are Win 8 and Office 2013 - that's it.

My little netbook with Win 7 and office 2007 is so nice after this pos ...

Nigel

thepiper92
05-04-2014, 08:24 PM
I have vlc on it and use it .. I default to vlc .. then days later it's back to crappy MS's rubbish... actually it's not even MS .. its a 'buy-in' ...

IE - I use as at least it's easy to disable IE's spying .. but Chrome has the biggest complaints board for User spying of them all .. I will not add my browsing to Googles information collection ... It's bad enough Googlle Private is most public airing of crap ever .. without adding to it.

I loved Netscape ... till that got knobbled.

The OS and Work programs are Win 8 and Office 2013 - that's it.

My little netbook with Win 7 and office 2007 is so nice after this pos ...

Nigel


Hmm that is peculiar why that would happen. You can also go to a section, can't recall what the name of it is, but you can disable native programs completely.

CHELLIE
05-04-2014, 10:29 PM
Hi Nigel :) You Can go back on your computer and restore it to a day or 2 before you had the problems. Hope that helps, Chellie

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/zxue/archive/2012/03/09/windows-8-how-to-29-restore-system-to-a-previous-state-using-restore-point.aspx

CHELLIE
05-04-2014, 10:34 PM
I got away from Windows, its to much of a PITA, I am now using Ubuntu. Ubuntu is not perfect, but its a lot better than the PITA Windows IMHO

http://www.ubuntu.com/

kyleservicetech
05-05-2014, 12:07 AM
Bing stuff trying to install was under optional updates, so I unchecked it.

Yeah
So did I after getting burned with bing.

For those that haven't been burned yet by that Microsoft bing "Virus" and its associated conduit program just google
"How do I remove bing from my computer?"

The big problem with bing, it is not visable in the program listing for deleting. It's buried in the computer register files, and needs someone much more knowledgeable than I in computers to remove. (I paid $38 to get rid of it)

thepiper92
05-05-2014, 12:50 AM
Yeah
So did I after getting burned with bing.

For those that haven't been burned yet by that Microsoft bing "Virus" and its associated conduit program just google
"How do I remove bing from my computer?"

The big problem with bing, it is not visable in the program listing for deleting. It's buried in the computer register files, and needs someone much more knowledgeable than I in computers to remove. (I paid $38 to get rid of it)

Yikes, too bad I wasn't closer, could have done it for free.

thepiper92
05-05-2014, 12:54 AM
I got away from Windows, its to much of a PITA, I am now using Ubuntu. Ubuntu is not perfect, but its a lot better than the PITA Windows IMHO

http://www.ubuntu.com/

I've used all types of linux, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, and so on, even the slower, but flashier KDE styles. Like many operating systems, they add stuff that slows it down, like the cloud bar thing, or whatever it is.

CHELLIE
05-05-2014, 01:07 AM
I've used all types of linux, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, and so on, even the slower, but flashier KDE styles. Like many operating systems, they add stuff that slows it down, like the cloud bar thing, or whatever it is.

Ubuntu has programs that you can down load to speed things up, I had to install a program to stop other things from loading and now my comp is twice as fast

DHC Beaver
05-05-2014, 01:56 AM
I have windows 8 on my new computer,as it came pre-installed with it.I made the mistake of allowing it to upgrade to 8.1.
That caused me untold headaches.The only way out was to reset to "as delivered" basic 8 spec.Of course,that meant having to reinstall all my own programs.But at least,I have a nice stable computer now.
I now religiouly check every update,before letting it install.I can delete all the rubbish,and just upgrade the security .
I have used Firefox for years.IE is too big and clumsy for me.I definitely wouldn't use Outlook Express,that's a prime target for hackers.
I no longer need a pop3 email program anyway,as my cheap(ish) broadband provider doesn't give me an email adress as such.Gmail all the way.I used Thunderbird before that.
When I start getting too much crap ,I simply start a new gmail adress.
But for some reason,my laptop with windows 7 works much better at fiddling with my 9x transmitter.W8 doesn't always recognize the connection.:mad:.I now have a Taranis,and it has the same trouble with 8.
Wasn't life so much easier without computers?Oh wait,no,then we wouldn't have Wattflyer!

kyleservicetech
05-05-2014, 02:19 AM
Yikes, too bad I wasn't closer, could have done it for free.

Now you tell me!

The guy that cleaned up my PC had me install a remote control program so he could operate my PC remotely. It took this guy 90 minutes to clean out bing. I could see what he was doing on my PC monitor, he was way way over my head. :oops: :oops:

He told me to uninstall that remote control program after signing off, which I did.

If you've googled that bing thing, there are thousands of complaints from people that could not get rid of it.

thepiper92
05-05-2014, 03:09 AM
Ubuntu has programs that you can down load to speed things up, I had to install a program to stop other things from loading and now my comp is twice as fast

Oh it can be removed, but I just hate that every Linux adds unnecessary stuff. Just like that store app in windows...why would I want to buy stuff.

solentlife
05-05-2014, 07:53 AM
Hi Nigel :) You Can go back on your computer and restore it to a day or 2 before you had the problems. Hope that helps, Chellie

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/zxue/archive/2012/03/09/windows-8-how-to-29-restore-system-to-a-previous-state-using-restore-point.aspx

I know .. but the restore failed ... I tried several different as well .. every restore point before the last update failed.

I've now after 36hrs got a working machine again ... Restore point made ..

MS - you need something shoved up where the sun don't shine !

Nigel

kyleservicetech
05-06-2014, 01:34 AM
I know .. but the restore failed ... I tried several different as well .. every restore point before the last update failed.

I've now after 36hrs got a working machine again ... Restore point made ..

MS - you need something shoved up where the sun don't shine !

Nigel

Naw, MS is deaf.

Don't think so? Just google "How do I remove Bing from my Computer". With the countless complaints on this, there is ZERO response from Microsoft. That Bing program got into my PC with one of :censor: MS automatic updates. You can't remove it, the Bing program and its associated conduit program are not listed in the programs for un-install on your computer.

I also tried that system restore. Didn't work. Because I've got the funny feeling that MS made certain that their Bing Virus bypassed the system restore stuff.

dahawk
05-06-2014, 01:47 AM
Upgraded Spybot to the virus checking version. Cheap and good but don't have AVG running at the same time. It gets confused. It already picked up what was called a serious threat Hobby King of all places.. Yikes. Cleaned it.

solentlife
05-06-2014, 07:16 AM
Upgraded Spybot to the virus checking version. Cheap and good but don't have AVG running at the same time. It gets confused. It already picked up what was called a serious threat Hobby King of all places.. Yikes. Cleaned it.

HK like most sites uses BOTs to track your likes .. Spybot picks that up ..

It's usually not a good idea to have two AV systems running anyway .. one often ends up detecting other as a Viral or Trojan app.

Nigel

thepiper92
05-06-2014, 05:48 PM
Naw, MS is deaf.

Don't think so? Just google "How do I remove Bing from my Computer". With the countless complaints on this, there is ZERO response from Microsoft. That Bing program got into my PC with one of :censor: MS automatic updates. You can't remove it, the Bing program and its associated conduit program are not listed in the programs for un-install on your computer.

I also tried that system restore. Didn't work. Because I've got the funny feeling that MS made certain that their Bing Virus bypassed the system restore stuff.

Bing would be bypassed. System restore works for drivers and software, but not native programs typically, meaning anything that is part of the os is skipped. Things like bing are now part of it, explaining why bing is not in programs. It is best that one goes to explorer and clicks on view on the top left, selecting hidden items. This gives access to various places like program data, which may store some unwanted things. The same with appdata in users. As for conduit and bing, I removed it from my dads comp...was a while back. Most things like that are stores in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE when you go into regedit. I believe conduit was within the Microsoft offshoot of that section. It's fairly easy to find most things in regedit, as most things are named by typical names (conduit isn't called abxotp-1111 or something, but conduit).
When going through look for the c's. If nothing, branch into the Microsoft section and look for the c's. Conduit will be in there. Now there are other more serious programs that imbed themselves into the system, of which don't have simply names usually. In program data you can find where viruses store themselves and run through the system.

dahawk
05-06-2014, 05:57 PM
Piper,

From a non-IT guy prospective, that was a very clear explanation . Thanks !

I'm one of those guys that the IT guys just roll their eyes when I contact them.

dahawk
05-06-2014, 06:00 PM
HK like most sites uses BOTs to track your likes .. Spybot picks that up ..

It's usually not a good idea to have two AV systems running anyway .. one often ends up detecting other as a Viral or Trojan app.

Nigel

Yep,

The funny part was that Spybot recognized the HK trojan as porn. I guess they're right ! LOL All is working good now. Often wonder what motivates people to write viruses. Why? Just to be an a-hole?

thepiper92
05-06-2014, 06:26 PM
Piper,

From a non-IT guy prospective, that was a very clear explanation . Thanks !

I'm one of those guys that the IT guys just roll their eyes when I contact them.

Thanks, I usually roll my eyes at IT guys. If there is something I don't know...it's seems they are getting paid to not know it either :/

For regedit, don't be afraid to look around, nothing will happen until you push delete. Furthermore, regedit deletion will disable programs, essentially taking away protocols they are set under. Stuff like conduit will still exist technically, in hidden folders, likely appdata which is easy to find. In appdata there are folders local, locallow and roaming. Bing should be in locallow, and in that folder Microsoft, where you also will see Internet explorer. It could also be in local, can't quite remember.

thepiper92
05-06-2014, 06:30 PM
Also, be really careful when installing programs. In fact just now I am updating a program called batterycare (it gives me a more accurate battery reading and more power options, as well as temp readings of the CPU and ssd) and it is offering conduit search protect. Many people install things by clicking next, accept and so on. You gotta be more careful now

solentlife
05-06-2014, 06:39 PM
Yep,

The funny part was that Spybot recognized the HK trojan as porn. I guess they're right ! LOL All is working good now. Often wonder what motivates people to write viruses. Why? Just to be an a-hole?

I worked with a guy who used to write them ...

I even had a book recc'd by him that took you into their early world ... back To Modem Wars .. Industrial Espionage etc.

It was based on Corporate Crime as well.

Now don't get me wrong .. I do not put this as a definitive and total story - just a side of it that I believe is not generally known .. it could also be fiction ...

Back in the days of Modem Wars .. mainframes. This 'game' became widespread ... and a certain Anti Virus entrepreneur was supposed to be heavily involved. Anyway - Modem wars code needed only a small change to make it go viral. He is supposed to have had a hand in doing that.
So move on .. Viruses are not a new thing but in those days were simple codes .. easily found, removed, repaired by the nerds who worked the terminals.

Now we have the possibility to infiltrate, collect, interrogate systems .. to send it out ... that's what my guy did .. wrote Trojans to sit on a single computer and collect data. Viruses he wrote to spread and infiltrate whole networks and systems. The data would be fed back .. Bingo.

That is a side that went on for years very quietly .. and if you think it was only some nerd in a backroom at home - think again. My mate was part of a team .. paid very well... till the team was disbanded.

As he told me .. there was always the 'fools side' .. the side that students, nerds played .. basically writing viral code because THEY COULD DO IT .. to show the world how clever they are .. not caring about the consequences .. but watching the world reeling around them ... like a killer watching victims suffer.

Even he hated that sort.

What happened to the Entrepreneur ? He's sitting comfortably having sold of his company ... disappeared of the public register... so they say.

It's like everything .......... there's a side that is used for definite purpose and a side that is criminal... this just blurs that line.

No I do not write viruses ... some think that I did .. but hand on heart - No I never did. Other tricks I did years ago - that's another story !!

Nigel

thepiper92
05-06-2014, 06:55 PM
Viruses will only get worse. The more security Microsoft or apple adds to an os, the more imbedded, undetectable and difficult to remove a virus can be. It's like "where's Waldo", have two people in the pic, Waldo is easy to find, have a 10x10 foot pic of thousands of people, Waldo isn't too easy to spot anymore. What is funny is how people are so determined to protect their computers, such as my girlfriend's dad who puts a password on the bios and login screen. One small virus can get in, and stop the computer from being shut down, or if it is hard reset, can't be booted. There are also root kits that record what you are doing, passwords, bank info...only possible because of wifi. Also, any of these passwords can be found with Linux or unix software. I've had to do this actually when repairing my uncles comp. It was sitting there and he forgot the password. I used a unix program and it told me everything. Of course if you have a difficult password, it will require more intense methods to find passwords, but nothing is that hard to find. Also, about system restore, if it fails, it's usually because of a virus, usually a weak virus imbedded into a program which restore would remove. Many of these viruses open up ports to allow more complex viruses in.

kyleservicetech
05-06-2014, 10:55 PM
Bing would be bypassed. System restore works for drivers and software, but not native programs typically, meaning anything that is part of the os is skipped. Things like bing are now part of it, explaining why bing is not in programs. It is best that one goes to explorer and clicks on view on the top left, selecting hidden items. This gives access to various places like program data, which may store some unwanted things. The same with appdata in users. As for conduit and bing, I removed it from my dads comp...was a while back. Most things like that are stores in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE when you go into regedit. I believe conduit was within the Microsoft offshoot of that section. It's fairly easy to find most things in regedit, as most things are named by typical names (conduit isn't called abxotp-1111 or something, but conduit).
When going through look for the c's. If nothing, branch into the Microsoft section and look for the c's. Conduit will be in there. Now there are other more serious programs that imbed themselves into the system, of which don't have simply names usually. In program data you can find where viruses store themselves and run through the system.

That's interesting, I learned something new today.

Thank you.

What was really interesting on my PC and that Bing program, there were near a hundred strange JPG photo files spread all over the hard drive, mostly in where I save my digital photos. I didn't put them there, and clicking on any one of them sent the PC directly to that :censor: bing program. After a search to find them all, and delete them, and delete them from the trash bin, they'd return several days later. It took that expert to get rid of bing and that conduit program.

DennyV

kyleservicetech
05-06-2014, 11:05 PM
I worked with a guy who used to write them ...

I even had a book recc'd by him that took you into their early world ... back To Modem Wars .. Industrial Espionage etc.

It was based on Corporate Crime as well.

Now don't get me wrong .. I do not put this as a definitive and total story - just a side of it that I believe is not generally known .. it could also be fiction ...

Back in the days of Modem Wars .. mainframes. This 'game' became widespread ... and a certain Anti Virus entrepreneur was supposed to be heavily involved. Anyway - Modem wars code needed only a small change to make it go viral. He is supposed to have had a hand in doing that.
So move on .. Viruses are not a new thing but in those days were simple codes .. easily found, removed, repaired by the nerds who worked the terminals.

Now we have the possibility to infiltrate, collect, interrogate systems .. to send it out ... that's what my guy did .. wrote Trojans to sit on a single computer and collect data. Viruses he wrote to spread and infiltrate whole networks and systems. The data would be fed back .. Bingo.

That is a side that went on for years very quietly .. and if you think it was only some nerd in a backroom at home - think again. My mate was part of a team .. paid very well... till the team was disbanded.

As he told me .. there was always the 'fools side' .. the side that students, nerds played .. basically writing viral code because THEY COULD DO IT .. to show the world how clever they are .. not caring about the consequences .. but watching the world reeling around them ... like a killer watching victims suffer.

Even he hated that sort.

What happened to the Entrepreneur ? He's sitting comfortably having sold of his company ... disappeared of the public register... so they say.

It's like everything .......... there's a side that is used for definite purpose and a side that is criminal... this just blurs that line.

No I do not write viruses ... some think that I did .. but hand on heart - No I never did. Other tricks I did years ago - that's another story !!

Nigel

One of the guys I worked with used to work for IBM. This guy was a bit of a blow hard, but he did say that IBM warned their employees about writing software virus programs that could do damage to computers.

According to him, IBM would fire the person, then file a criminal lawsuit against the person, and take everything the guy had. And, IBM generally won.

Now, things have changed. Thirty years ago when we were running MSDOS, I wrote a little bitty program that took the keyboard input, and added Plus One to it, then displayed it on the PC screen. So the letter A shows up as B, the number 7 shows up as 8 and so on. The program plainly indicated to hit escape to exit the program.


About a year ago, my PC got hit with a ransomware virus that completely locked up my PC, and the only way to unlock it was to give some :censor: my credit card number. Everything was locked up, could not even do a safe start up. Even a Windows startup disk didn't work. Had to buy a new PC. Still got the old PC after reformatting the hard drive. I was lucky, two week previous, I picked up an USB external 1 Tb hard drive, and backed every file on it. Then unplugged it from the PC.

That virus got in when I clicked on a Norton Popup indicating it could display current status on my PC. Obviously it was not made by Norton.

So, warning, DO NOT EVER CLICK ON POPUPS unless you know exactly what it is.

kyleservicetech
05-06-2014, 11:14 PM
Of course if you have a difficult password, it will require more intense methods to find passwords, but nothing is that hard to find. .

For those that want to use complex passwords, check this free thing out.

https://identitysafe.norton.com/password-generator#

thepiper92
05-07-2014, 01:46 AM
I personally have a dislike for Norton...bogs your comp down. Now my laptop would be okay; it's six years old and surpassed any laptop today, unless you step up to gaming. Other laptops, like someone who has a simple one for browsing, Norton really does it in...protection through preventing from using the computer. Now bitdefender is a great one I find, same with kasperskys. Windows 8 actually is good for protection, no separate antivirus and no viruses yet.

solentlife
05-07-2014, 06:39 AM
I cannot understand anyone using Norton ... I used to set up networks (I did it as company was too cheapskate to employ a proper IT guy .. ) .. and I used to study the tests done on various AV programs. In the 90's MacAfee was always tops .. and Norton - well it just sucked ! There was Solomon's that just bogged any PC down so bad, it just ground it to pulp.
Over the years MacAfee has just got bad .. oversized, overloaded and beaten by freebies such as AVG ..

Norton ? I really don't see why it continues .. it misses all sorts of Trojans, it messes up computers by invading the root and OS .. and worst of all it misses some of the common virus that its just plain useless. Getting rid of it is a nightmare as it leaves behind all sorts of crap ..

Nigel

thepiper92
05-07-2014, 06:52 AM
Norton is like Apple to me, rated far better than they should be. Why high ratings? Well Microsoft likes to include trials of them, or used to, and I'm sure they fork out the cash to get good ratings. Same with Apple, they look cool, case is aluminum, so they must be good. Even people at the apple store, the sales guy was telling me how great they were, and I asked him if he's ever used a pc...answer was no. Yes, they look great, and as photoshop was designed on Mac, it works best on Mac, but I prefer a computer I can take apart and is 1500 only if it has top of the line i7 and a great graphics card. I actually timed my laptop boot time and various task opening time to a MacBook Pro, my 6 year old computer won, as and it can actually play a number of games. It was 800 dollars.

Sorry about the rank. Nigel, as for you being an "IT guy", believe me, most of those guys aren't too knowledgable, and I bet most learn on the job, like you did. That's not to say they are all bad, but any my dad have called up, I ended up talking to and saying they are wrong, and I just fixed the issue myself.

solentlife
05-07-2014, 08:16 AM
I was lucky that the Guy who taught me was that Virus guy .. and an ex Teacher at a College in UK for Computer Studies. Trouble is PC's have moved on a lot from the 286, 386 days of then. We were using DR DOS and MS Dos 6 .. depending on what work the PC was to do.
Later Win 3.1 WFWG.

IT guys generally annoy me .. you have a fault with your computer ... you take it to them ... many of them first thing they do is destroy all the files and work on it .. no-one has ever explained that one to me ..

I had a prime case that will forever stay with me.

I was sitting in my office when lightning struck the radio antenna we had on the roof. The strike fried not only the comms radio - but the telephone next to it got zapped .. all the PC's on the network got zapped .. myself and my assistant manager - we both were blown out of our chairs ! Ears ringing for ages after.

One of the PC's was the archive machine and had all the company files .. We couldn't access any file. The HDD was zapped. The IT guy we contracted said he could recover it ... so of the PC went.

He came back a few days later .. sorry Nigel - nothing I can do .. it's fried.

When I next returned to UK - I contacted a Drive resurrection company .. they specialise in data recovery on damaged drives.
They couldn't do it. Why ? They found that the FAT's had been corrupted by none other than Norton Tools .. by who ? Yes you guessed - the stupid IT guy ..
The only option then was to contact a speciality company who strip drives down to platter by platter in nitrogen dry cabinets .. but cost is huge .. running into thousands per platter ... and there are quite a few in a HDD ...
The cost was just too great.

Nigel

Wrongway-Feldman
05-07-2014, 03:19 PM
I've owned a PC of some sort since the late 70's. I've been "online" since the early 80's with 300 baud suction cup modems and the first fidonet BBS systems.
I can honestly say I haven't had a virus since the mid 90's and that was a monkey virus in the boot sector of a shareware floppy.
There are a number of steps, some simple and some more advanced, that I take to insulate myself.
1- I use multiple email addresses. One for friends and family. One for work associates. And one for all things online. I use that last one for every time a website needs an email address to sign up, make purchases, etc.
2- don't ever open an attachment of any kind ever. Modern email software will show you a preview of the file in question. If it looks like it is what it says it is, then scan it before you open it.
3- ignore any and all emails from anyone you know telling you to follow a link to see a cool video or whatever. Contact list are constantly being hijacked to spam everyone on it.
4- ignore all email from financial institutions. They will call or write.
5- never follow a hyperlink shortened by a service. If you can't see the full URL don't click on it.
6- never click on a popup and if at all possible never click a banner ad.

These simple steps will save you from 99.9% of all viruses.

If you partake in riskier surfing habits ie torrents, porn, etc there are additional things you can do to fully protect your main os.
Install some sort of virtual PC software. There are some very good free ones available like virtual box.
Once you have a virtual machine running do all your riskier surfing within that isolated environment. Make sure that you have no shared drives with the main os or this endeavor would be pointless.
Nothing that happens in the virtual machine can cross over to your main os. It is completely isolated.

thepiper92
05-07-2014, 05:57 PM
Wow you certainly take precautions. I have one email myself, and it a link is from my dad, I know it's fine, especially as I am the one to fix his comp when something happens ( **cough** conduit). Anything from people I don't know, delete, things about credit cards and banks, delete, unless it is an online statement, which I know I have signed up for. If you are a Torrent user, user it wisely, meaning if a vid or sound file downloads in a zip, scan it. If that zip is password protected, don't bother trying to get it and just discard the zip. If it is an exe...well definitely discard. I have never had a virus from torrents or the websites for them. The only times I have had to redo my computer is when I just felt it was time for a refresh or when I was playing around and messed up the os

kyleservicetech
05-07-2014, 05:59 PM
I've owned a PC of some sort since the late 70's. I've been "online" since the early 80's with 300 baud suction cup modems and the first fidonet BBS systems.
I can honestly say I haven't had a virus since the mid 90's and that was a monkey virus in the boot sector of a shareware floppy.
There are a number of steps, some simple and some more advanced, that I take to insulate myself.
1- I use multiple email addresses. One for friends and family. One for work associates. And one for all things online. I use that last one for every time a website needs an email address to sign up, make purchases, etc.
2- don't ever open an attachment of any kind ever. Modern email software will show you a preview of the file in question. If it looks like it is what it says it is, then scan it before you open it.
3- ignore any and all emails from anyone you know telling you to follow a link to see a cool video or whatever. Contact list are constantly being hijacked to spam everyone on it.
4- ignore all email from financial institutions. They will call or write.
5- never follow a hyperlink shortened by a service. If you can't see the full URL don't click on it.
6- never click on a popup and if at all possible never click a banner ad.

These simple steps will save you from 99.9% of all viruses.

If you partake in riskier surfing habits ie torrents, porn, etc there are additional things you can do to fully protect your main os.
Install some sort of virtual PC software. There are some very good free ones available like virtual box.
Once you have a virtual machine running do all your riskier surfing within that isolated environment. Make sure that you have no shared drives with the main os or this endeavor would be pointless.
Nothing that happens in the virtual machine can cross over to your main os. It is completely isolated.

Good information all around.

My first "Computer" was in 1980, where I put together some 70 integrated circuits, an microprocessor, and a lot of wire wrapping to wire it all up. All it was good for was very simple word processing to a dot matrix printer.

Learned two things from that. First, how those microprocessors and microcontrollers work. And, second, to NEVER do that again. :oops: :censor:

Wrongway-Feldman
05-08-2014, 05:05 AM
Good information all around.

My first "Computer" was in 1980, where I put together some 70 integrated circuits, an microprocessor, and a lot of wire wrapping to wire it all up. All it was good for was very simple word processing to a dot matrix printer.

Learned two things from that. First, how those microprocessors and microcontrollers work. And, second, to NEVER do that again. :oops: :censor:

My first PC was a kit as well. It was a Timex Sinclair with a whopping 8k of ram. I used a radio shack portable cassette player to load and store the programs. All programs were in basic and had to be programmed manually by me. In those days computer magazines would have an article about a new program or game and at the back of the magazine they would have pages of the basic code to program your own copy of the featured software.
Software was free in those days. Then Microsoft came along and everything changed. Suddenly there was copyrights and digital rights and intellectual property.
Changed software forever.
One of the biggest reasons I hate Microsoft. That and a few others. They made working in IT a living hell. With their BS certifications they brainwashed their customers into requiring. Their systematic destruction of competitors. And if they couldn't shut em down or buy them they would ad updates to windows to have competitors software flakey as hell. I hate Microsoft almost as much as Apple, but not quite.

thepiper92
05-08-2014, 05:16 AM
Well someone shares my hate for apple. With paying for software, and an os, torrents are my answer.

solentlife
05-08-2014, 07:42 AM
I started with a Commodore VIC20 .. with tape drive and a massive book of Basic code programs !!

Wrote a lot of stuff myself as well .. amazing what we could do with 8K.

Then I bought a dual floppy drive x86 machine .. 5.25 floppy program disc in drive a .. file archive 5.25 in drive b. That threw its hand in one day and Bull Honeywell refused to repair it as the seller had illegally imported reject stock !

To replace it was another dual floppy machine but the amazing new 286 !! From Dan Techn. I soon upgraded to a 40Megs HDD .. WOW I was flying !!

Company gear was Amstrad Word Processors .. with CP/M .. which finally gave way to 286's ....

That was the road to Windows mapped out then .. it's all been downhill since then .. flakier and flakier OS's .. they just get worse and worse ..

Many a time I used to sort out a fault by direct Command Line .. now that's a dying art .. with Command Line getting more obscure and less able.

I don't hate Windows .. I just tolerate it .. my biggest complaint is MS's insistence on basically making the world his Beta testing place. He launches flaky OS and then buries us in flaky updates / corrections. Office is no better .. getting bigger and bigger .. slower and slower .. more difficult to use ..

I've never understood why .. If you have a successful interface, works and people get used to it .. why oh why do they have to go and completely f*** it up with a different one ? I understand that business needs to sell a new version to survive .. but why completely redesign ?

MS has been the cause of many faults on PC's .. the infamous 640K barrier led to Extended memory and Expanded memory .. something that DR Dos had never done from very start with it's OS at bottom and all else after .. If DR Dos had been taken on by IBM for it's new line of computers instead of a spotty college boys crap (Gates).. we probably would be much better of. MS of course crushed Dr Dos .. even the mighty IBM's own PC Dos went by the board ...

MS's real breakthrough of course was like Horizon Hobbies BnF .. supplying with new PC's .. a copy of MS crap with each new PC over the counter .. a marketers dream come true ..

Apple ? Well great ideas .. but in reality Girlie Toys and expensive. Seems that it's 'fashionable' in certain circles to have Apple .. Never understood why I should pay more than 2x the price just to be able to type a letter ??

Oh and my machine is still streaming odd little bits at times .. seems MS is not finished with me yet !!

Nigel

thepiper92
05-08-2014, 07:49 AM
I started with a Commodore VIC20 .. with tape drive and a massive book of Basic code programs !!

Wrote a lot of stuff myself as well .. amazing what we could do with 8K.

Then I bought a dual floppy drive x86 machine .. 5.25 floppy program disc in drive a .. file archive 5.25 in drive b. That threw its hand in one day and Bull Honeywell refused to repair it as the seller had illegally imported reject stock !

To replace it was another dual floppy machine but the amazing new 286 !! From Dan Techn. I soon upgraded to a 40Megs HDD .. WOW I was flying !!

Company gear was Amstrad Word Processors .. with CP/M .. which finally gave way to 286's ....

That was the road to Windows mapped out then .. it's all been downhill since then .. flakier and flakier OS's .. they just get worse and worse ..

Many a time I used to sort out a fault by direct Command Line .. now that's a dying art .. with Command Line getting more obscure and less able.

I don't hate Windows .. I just tolerate it .. my biggest complaint is MS's insistence on basically making the world his Beta testing place. He launches flaky OS and then buries us in flaky updates / corrections. Office is no better .. getting bigger and bigger .. slower and slower .. more difficult to use ..

I've never understood why .. If you have a successful interface, works and people get used to it .. why oh why do they have to go and completely f*** it up with a different one ? I understand that business needs to sell a new version to survive .. but why completely redesign ?

MS has been the cause of many faults on PC's .. the infamous 640K barrier led to Extended memory and Expanded memory .. something that DR Dos had never done from very start with it's OS at bottom and all else after .. If DR Dos had been taken on by IBM for it's new line of computers instead of a spotty college boys crap (Gates).. we probably would be much better of. MS of course crushed Dr Dos .. even the mighty IBM's own PC Dos went by the board ...

MS's real breakthrough of course was like Horizon Hobbies BnF .. supplying with new PC's .. a copy of MS crap with each new PC over the counter .. a marketers dream come true ..

Apple ? Well great ideas .. but in reality Girlie Toys and expensive. Seems that it's 'fashionable' in certain circles to have Apple .. Never understood why I should pay more than 2x the price just to be able to type a letter ??

Oh and my machine is still streaming odd little bits at times .. seems MS is not finished with me yet !!

Nigel

Apple...all of their products are way too much. Their iPad line is just a bigger iPod, yet it is reviewed as the best. Microsoft has done something good, the Surface, especially the pro. They are around $1000 here, but an iPad is not much less, yet the Surface is not a tablet, but a little laptop with a fast processor, graphics and good ram, 10x what the iPad is. With this, why does Apple get good review? Only way I'd go to Apple is if their products were half the price, other than their iPod, which my $200 headphone amp plugs into and $400 Harman/Kardon sound good on (I like my music).

Wrongway-Feldman
05-08-2014, 01:37 PM
Yeah. Don't get me started on Apple. They have the tendency to bring out "new" product ideas they blatenly stole from someone else. The first mouse and graphical interface were stolen from at&t. The iPhone was not the first smartphone but revisionist history tells you it is. The iPod was not the first portable mp3 player. Then iPad was definitely not the first tablet PC. OSX is freebsd, something similar to Linux that apple put a prettier GUI on. The hardware in a Mac is exactly the same as what's in any other PC but they charge twice as much for it.
ITunes is an affront to all intelligence. You don't actually ever own anything you purchase through iTunes. If you buy something and they stop carrying it in their catalog then suddenly it also disappears from your library. Then there's the whole religious cult following of anything apple.

thepiper92
05-08-2014, 04:37 PM
Good point FreeBSD, remember I tried it at some point. That, Linux and MacOSX are all Unix but MacOSX cost money and is completely void of freedoms. Funny thing is I've talked to friends who have macs, people who don't do photo and video
editting, and asked what they do with them. Answer is write essays, Internet activities like Facebook, listen to music. Then I ask why pay so much, only answer is the aluminum casing. It's a 500 dollar comp, somehow the casing is worth 1000. The top of the line MacBook is something like 2500, it's really about a 1000 dollar comp. For 2500, you get wicked pc, including a industrial one that can be run over. I speculate people will tire of Mac eventually. At some point these people have to open their eyes and look at computers like the surface, which is only a little more than the iPad, but does everything you want, not just click on websites and play crappy iTunes Store games.

solentlife
05-08-2014, 04:56 PM
I'm actually getting to like Android more and more, despite my dislike of Google and how they wish to intrude like the others.

But in reality - it's no good staying withy the small boys if you want to do anything. I was a great shareware / freeware person in the oold x86 ... 486 ... Win 95 days ... but sadly things have moved on .. utilities are still great from the shareware stable - but anything more than that and really you are into commercial product.

Nigel

thepiper92
05-08-2014, 06:56 PM
I don't hate android, it's buggy at times, and gets bogged down fast. It is, however, more free of an os, and you can explore in it, such as using custom boot loaders and roms. I had an asus transformer that i modded to make it faster than my dads stick transformer prime elite, or whatever it is. I, however, get bored of tablets, finding I can't do much on them. It was 400 dollars, sold it for 200 two years later, so not too bad.

solentlife
05-08-2014, 07:11 PM
I use Blackberry for travel as it saves me a bundle in cash against any other form of mobile comms.

But they don't have a screen for me big enough !! So I have bought a 10" 3G tablet (actually dual sim) .. so that I can work easier while travelling .. with BB still providing primary support .. except in USA of course - where foreign BB sets have a real hard time ... I mean a REAL hard time.

Given the expansion into the market of Android ... I really think it will evolve into a serious contender.

Nigel

pizzano
05-08-2014, 08:27 PM
"what other software has so many updates and criticals?"

Are you referring to OS's or just Windows compatible software.....Linux, Mac, Unix, iOS, Android...?....Currently, Windows 7 and Windows XP still maintain the largest "market" share of all OS's.....and that is in "all" working environments, be it technical, educational, entertainment, production, home or business use.

All OS's have their share of "updates" related to user freindly application, security, speed and bios compatibility........the longer the product is in use and the greater number (popularity) of users or hackers, the more need for refinement.......it's really the nature of the game and all a part of the built-in, intentional economics (for profit or gain) as much as it is for convience and tech advancement!

It also has a lot to do with what one has grown accustomed too, have established as one's core (base) application and ease of (either economically or user compatibility) conversion.

Good or bad, the technology Microsoft, Mac and a few off-shoot Andriod based (which many rolled over from the MS and Mac based technology) will continue to be the leaders in this field......Linux will still have it's "niche" based community due to it's reliability and out-source support.

We can all sit and complain, be frustrated and wish there were other alternatives.....but the reality is, until the physical aspects of the technology advances in such a way that speed, storage (external/internal), power consumption, mobility functionality....bottoms out (which time is running out of as we speak) we are stuck with what can "now" be economically and physically produced.

Needless to say, we also pay the price for "intellectual property" limitations as well. There are only so many minds available to own or share such advancements.......and as we speak, Microsoft, Mac and Android are the only "hot-beds" where the advancements we all desire, live.......(to include the MIT's of the world.....the three above provide the majority of the funding used to "educate and stimulate" those fresh and new "intellectual properties").....;)

solentlife
05-08-2014, 08:42 PM
One problem that I noticed during the evolution of the -86 family of PCs .. and then into Windoze ...

The Software / OS's were pushing the Processors more and more such that it wasn't really the Processor .. THEN .. the OS / Software. It was more the OTHER way round.

Software was pushing the processor such that it HAD to develop faster / better to handle the SW at the speeds the SW supposedly was capable of.

Anyone remember DOS4G ... the DOS 'box' that many games ran in to get round the limitation imposed by the 640 barrier and calling on EXP and EXT memory ?

Nigel

pizzano
05-08-2014, 10:38 PM
One problem that I noticed during the evolution of the -86 family of PCs .. and then into Windoze ...

The Software / OS's were pushing the Processors more and more such that it wasn't really the Processor .. THEN .. the OS / Software. It was more the OTHER way round.

Software was pushing the processor such that it HAD to develop faster / better to handle the SW at the speeds the SW supposedly was capable of.

Anyone remember DOS4G ... the DOS 'box' that many games ran in to get round the limitation imposed by the 640 barrier and calling on EXP and EXT memory ?

Nigel

What, specifically are you referring to....I was trained in MS DOS 3.2 in 1986.....(MS 4.0 was not available here in the U.S. and was not introduced until 1986, mostly a Euro platform which did not intergrate as a multi-task tool until MS 5.0 came about)..... as the required application process for the Wang VS 300, land surveying, hydrology programs.....COBOL, BASIC ......math platforms.

Eventually we moved up to the MS 5.0 that utilized the 3.5" floppy 2.88mb.....wasn't but two more years later before we gave up on Wang and converted over to PC Survey and HEC systems.....Microsoft based OS's.

Ya, PC games played with the 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 platforms but the 640kb limitations caused the majority of the problems......even the 2.88mb advancement was short lived with games.....games required tons of storage and re-call properties......you can thank "games" for the advancement in the technology......that's where the bulk of the money was being made to support additional tech advancements.....lol

solentlife
05-08-2014, 11:34 PM
I worked through MS DOS 3 ... up and through 6.2 ... Windows 2 ... 3 .. 3.1 WFWG ... then Win 95 .. through the various versions of 97 and 98.. hated 2000 / NT .... Millenium was a joke ... but at last when XP came along - it was a breath of fresh air ... it worked reasonably well once a few updates had been done.

I have a server in my house ... it was set up in my office originally to serve as an archive - file server for Yachting Forum I helped start. The It co. who set it up asked what OS I wanted on it .. I chose Win 98 (original Vers 1 - not SE) .. that server stayed on continuous without any trouble .. no lock-ups ... no stupid typical Windows hangs ... and today it still works as good as the first day it was switched on years ago. I've since disconnected it .. but will probably restart it some time. Only problem was no USB and large HDD support with Win98, that came with 98SE. But MS decided that a lot of peripheral gear like scanners etc. that worked with 98 would not work with 98SE and no updates or patches were ever created.

Nigel

solentlife
05-08-2014, 11:39 PM
The best game ever IMHO was "Wing Commander" .. all the graphics created in Animator .. fantastic game.

Ran in DOS4G on anything from 286 thru 486 .. the 486SX was the designed for platform.

Unfortunately once Win 95 and later took over ... and processors went Pentium and higher - WC was unplayable as it ran too fast. DOSBOX was written to give a virtual 'old slow' machine for such games ... they played but no full screen, jerky .. just not the same.

Pity ... it was a brill game.

Nigel

pizzano
05-09-2014, 12:03 AM
Nigel....

You may or may not be aware, but the beloved Windows XP system is core rooted and based on Windows NT.......mainly due the commercial business use success most IT guys loved about the NT adminstrator access, priority and control functions........;)

I'm in the process of either trying to keep this old XP custom workhorse HP Pavillion dv 5000, upgraded or saving for another like (more horse power) lap-top with Windows 7.......Windows 8 will be off the shelves and long gone by 1-01-15.....it has been a disaster, even the 2.1 version is failing in service respone and market revenue!

solentlife
05-09-2014, 12:16 AM
I'm well aware that XP was based on NT ... what they did was to get rid of the front end and clean up the Login of NT ... made it much more user friendly than NT / 2000 ever was.

That imho is why it was accepted as one of the best Win OS's .. it had integrated the DOS well .. it was easy to start and login ... had a much smoother feel to it .. why ? Because NT / 2000 had been around long enough to show up where it needed sorting.

Win 7 is OK .. I actually quite like it .. but 8 ? 8 is crap.

Nigel

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 12:58 AM
Windows 8 is a fast os. The issue with it is that it is designed for touch and mobile use (the store and app feature). 8.1 is better with its added start button, and I just removed the extra news and stocks crap. It is not bad once you get rid of that junk, move main programs to the quick bar or whatever. Drivers have not been an issues, nor have I had program compatibility issues. That being said, it certainly isn't better than 7...now Vista, anything is better. I was hoping 8 would be awesome, but there is nothing improved.

kyleservicetech
05-09-2014, 02:08 AM
Windows 8 is a fast os. The issue with it is that it is designed for touch and mobile use (the store and app feature). 8.1 is better with its added start button, and I just removed the extra news and stocks crap. It is not bad once you get rid of that junk, move main programs to the quick bar or whatever. Drivers have not been an issues, nor have I had program compatibility issues. That being said, it certainly isn't better than 7...now Vista, anything is better. I was hoping 8 would be awesome, but there is nothing improved.

Yeah, I've just dropped all the Win 8 Icons stuff, and use the Windows 8 "Desktop" Icon. Makes it kind of look like the old Windows 7. :oops:

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 02:17 AM
Another annoyance is pc settings in windows 8. If you want standard windows 7 control panel and such, the windows key plus x brings up a menu to go to system, control panel, command prompt.

Wrongway-Feldman
05-09-2014, 04:41 AM
I for one really miss my IBM OS/2 system. I ran that right up to OS/3 warp.
It was a brilliant and robust OS. Way ahead of its time. True 32bit OS when windows 95 was still lying about its features. Windows never really caught up to OS/2 till then release of XP. Many financial institutions were still running OS/2 as of just a couple of years ago. I still have a copy I play with in a virtual machine from time to time.
It's yet another victim of Microsoft.

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 06:30 AM
Can't say IBM, which is now Lenovo, was perfect. Dads first computer was an IBM, 8mb ram, $4000. Windows 95 needed 16mb. My dad couldn't figure it out why the computer would barely get to the desktop. This was a new computer as well, he was told it was the newest technology. He was constantly asking techs what was wrong, went through multiple settings through DOS, and finally figured out the os was too much for the computer.

solentlife
05-09-2014, 08:19 AM
Lenovo was the Chinese factory building IBM gear ... as I understand it - IBM sold of their PC production side to Lenovo ... they are two separate companies.

8Mb ? Win 95 ? By time Win95 came out very few people had such low RAM machines ... that sort of figure is reminiscent of Win 3 ..

I can remember hours spent plugging in extra RAM cards to machines in the PC's in our Company offices in Saudi ... for Win 3 ... then Win 3.1 well before 95 ever appeared.

Nigel

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 08:23 AM
Well IBM used to make computers, and Lenovo now actually makes the same computers, as in some are almost identical to how they were before, but better components. IBM still exists it seems, not sure what they do now. Well the machine my dad got was in fact new, and not just sitting around for years new, but hot off the press, yet it included such poor features that it couldn't run squat. 95 was minimum 16mb. As for ram, well my dad managed to get the company to take the computer back luckily, due to the fact that not only was the computer 4000, but ram was hundreds of dollars.

solentlife
05-09-2014, 08:50 AM
Well IBM used to make computers, and Lenovo now actually makes the same computers, as in some are almost identical to how they were before, but better components. IBM still exists it seems, not sure what they do now.

They still conduct their core business ... Processor / Chip design ...

Well the machine my dad got was in fact new, and not just sitting around for years new, but hot off the press, yet it included such poor features that it couldn't run squat. 95 was minimum 16mb. As for ram, well my dad managed to get the company to take the computer back luckily, due to the fact that not only was the computer 4000, but ram was hundreds of dollars.

As I said previous ......... Software was driving the Processor / PC hardware forward - not other way round. People were writing OS like Windoze and Games that pushed the limits of machines.

Unfortunately business success is based on "sales" or "service" of gear. A machine that does the job and never needs replacement is a dead end business. When you consider that 99.99999% of people could do then what they still do today with the old software .... makes you wonder. Whether we like Windoze / Office or not - compare to Lotus 123 - the standard in DOS days that all was measured against .. I'm glad those days are gone .. brain busters like DBase .. UGH !!

We moved on to easier, more productive software ... but sadly we then moved on to bloated, overpressed and unnecessary style software ...

Nigel

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 09:02 AM
Yes software certainly does do the driving. Ridiculous that they can't make parts be upgraded, rather than a whole new pc. To a certain extent things can be upgraded, but they technology completely changes, such as at one time, graphics cards were pci, then they went to agp, and then to pci express. All completely different, and once the change takes place, a computer is finished.

solentlife
05-09-2014, 09:13 AM
When the PC was first designed .. it was based on the idea of total HOME serviceable machine.

It was designed so Fred Bloggs could open it up, service, upgrade, add ..

This was true for many years .. and then later 'sales' needs took over and integrated Graphics and main memory ... non-removeable chips / processors . dedicated built in components ... the Laptop and then the Notebook ... the Netbook ... the Tablet ....

We are a far cry from the original days of the PC Junior ... i86 etc.

Nigel

Wrongway-Feldman
05-09-2014, 01:49 PM
When the PC was first designed .. it was based on the idea of total HOME serviceable machine.

It was designed so Fred Bloggs could open it up, service, upgrade, add ..

This was true for many years .. and then later 'sales' needs took over and integrated Graphics and main memory ... non-removeable chips / processors . dedicated built in components ... the Laptop and then the Notebook ... the Netbook ... the Tablet ....

We are a far cry from the original days of the PC Junior ... i86 etc.

Nigel
Very true . the original IBM PC was designed using of the shelf components.
But they very soon found out that like the new car industry the real money maker was after sale servicing. It was at that point that name brand machines went with proprietary parts. If you needed to upgrade anything you could only use parts manufactured by the company that made your computer.
IBM even went so far as to invent a completely new architecture with microbus, they called it PS/2. The sad part is that microbus was actually better than the ISA systems of the time but they wouldn't license it to anyone else till it was too late.
In the mid nineties, when apple PC's where running power PC CPU's, they finally allowed clones to be licensed. Prices dropped and clone sales went up. As soon as Jobs came back to apple he scrapped the licenses and macs got expensive again.
I think the last name brand pc I owned was a Tandy 2000 in the early 80's.
That PC was almost 100% compatible with IBM, but not quite. You had to buy Tandy versions of all the software cause standard IBM versions wouldn't load.
I've been building !y own ever since. It's cheaper. More bang for the buck. And you can upgrade individual component with of the shelf parts. Best of all you only ever pay for what you want.
It's very true that games more than anything else is pushing the hardware. Many new games cannot be played at max graphic settings with current hardware.
This is changing however due to the new generation of consoles. There are fewer and fewer titles being released for PC. Its also much cheaper now to play on a console. Console graphics have caught up with PC's without having to shell out hundreds of dollars per year to upgrade to play the latest games.

solentlife
05-09-2014, 02:53 PM
One of the longest running 'I wont let you play in my back-yard' items was IBM's use of BASIC.

IBM had a small code inserted in the system to recognise IBM Basic. This was not released to 3rd parties.
This led to MS and others having to write round it. QBasic and various appeared. (Note Qbasic and Quick Basic are NOT the same ... )

I used to write Basic routines for PC's ... calculation checking routines for Ships cargoes etc. and that little restriction actually had serious affect on some parts of the program. It's years now since I last played with it .. I'd have to drag out my old books etc.

Now here's an interesting item : MS insists that basically you never really own the Software .. that you cannot sell on or pass on to another. You buy a Licence not the S/W. That copies are illegal.
This conflicts with EU rules. EU rules allow you to copy for personal use literally anything as long as when required - you can produce the original.

Nigel

Wrongway-Feldman
05-09-2014, 03:22 PM
Microsoft also licenses to specific hardware. If you install Windows and later upgrade the motherboard you will have to contact Microsoft to get a key to have windows operating again. This does not apply to corporate editions however.
I think my biggest current beef, across the board and not just with windows, is that you need permanent internet connectivity just to use the software.
Where I live currently there is no internet. There is satellite but it is way to expensive with a 8 gig usage cap. I currently use my phones unlimited data plan and use the WiFi hotspot to connect. But service here is poor and only 3.5G. So very slow. And after 10gig I get throttled back till the next billing cycle.
The problem is that many of the ports needed by much of the software are blocked when using mobile data. I have not been able to log in to steam since I moved here.
Vendors just assume that everyone has reliable high speed access. So those of us that live the rural life get left behind. I sorely miss the 200mb connection i had before moving.
What bothered me though is that I pay the same rates as those customers who live in a 4g/LTE serviced area but only get 10% of the data speed. Even when they get throttled back their data speed is higher than what I get before throttling.

solentlife
05-09-2014, 05:27 PM
Microsoft also licenses to specific hardware. If you install Windows and later upgrade the motherboard you will have to contact Microsoft to get a key to have windows operating again. This does not apply to corporate editions however.
I think my biggest current beef, across the board and not just with windows, is that you need permanent internet connectivity just to use the software.
Where I live currently there is no internet. There is satellite but it is way to expensive with a 8 gig usage cap. I currently use my phones unlimited data plan and use the WiFi hotspot to connect. But service here is poor and only 3.5G. So very slow. And after 10gig I get throttled back till the next billing cycle.
The problem is that many of the ports needed by much of the software are blocked when using mobile data. I have not been able to log in to steam since I moved here.
Vendors just assume that everyone has reliable high speed access. So those of us that live the rural life get left behind. I sorely miss the 200mb connection i had before moving.
What bothered me though is that I pay the same rates as those customers who live in a 4g/LTE serviced area but only get 10% of the data speed. Even when they get throttled back their data speed is higher than what I get before throttling.

WOW - are you looking over my shoulder ?

This b****y Win 8 and Office 2013 is doing exactly that ... Internet connection to maintain streaming ... and it has used up my 30Gig High speed Broadband in first 8 days !!

The original reason I started this thread - was this exact fact.... it's insistence on Internet.

30Gig in 8 frigging days !! Deduct a few Youtubes .. a couple of movies .. forum chats .. about 25Gig is frigging MS ...

Nigel

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 05:58 PM
Do you mean to use office and such? I always have Internet, without it I won't really use my computer, besides a video or two or a game. I can still use word without Internet, not quite sure what is meant here.

solentlife
05-09-2014, 06:29 PM
Do you mean to use office and such? I always have Internet, without it I won't really use my computer, besides a video or two or a game. I can still use word without Internet, not quite sure what is meant here.

The problem is that the installation from DVD is Ok .. but both that and any repair installation will stream extra / additional parts from Internet ...

Yes you can use the Office set stand-alone but if it's missing that little bit - I wish you luck.

One of the worst bits happening at present with the repaired Office on the PC I'm using now .. if I want to open a Word or Excel file from email - the Protected View that previously opened up in seconds - now hangs for ages with a little box saying "Streaming additional files" ... and then slowly opens the file.
If I "save to" .. then I still get Streaming message when I locally open - but it opens much quicker. But why should I save it first ? I've even disabled the Protected File modes ... no different still Streaming.

The web is full of people absolutely fed up and gutted with this ridiculous set-up.

MS's excuse is they say its to get the software up and running for users quicker and then it will just download additions when needed - that's total crap ! Typical MS brush-off.

Nigel

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 06:44 PM
The problem is that the installation from DVD is Ok .. but both that and any repair installation will stream extra / additional parts from Internet ...

Yes you can use the Office set stand-alone but if it's missing that little bit - I wish you luck.

One of the worst bits happening at present with the repaired Office on the PC I'm using now .. if I want to open a Word or Excel file from email - the Protected View that previously opened up in seconds - now hangs for ages with a little box saying "Streaming additional files" ... and then slowly opens the file.
If I "save to" .. then I still get Streaming message when I locally open - but it opens much quicker. But why should I save it first ? I've even disabled the Protected File modes ... no different still Streaming.

The web is full of people absolutely fed up and gutted with this ridiculous set-up.

MS's excuse is they say its to get the software up and running for users quicker and then it will just download additions when needed - that's total crap ! Typical MS brush-off.

Nigel

That is odd, perhaps getting it through torrent is different. Also, during install, I turn off the install of everything but Word, Outlook and Powerpoint. No Lync, no One Note, no Cloud or whatever it is.

pizzano
05-09-2014, 07:26 PM
The problem is that the installation from DVD is Ok .. but both that and any repair installation will stream extra / additional parts from Internet ...

Yes you can use the Office set stand-alone but if it's missing that little bit - I wish you luck.

One of the worst bits happening at present with the repaired Office on the PC I'm using now .. if I want to open a Word or Excel file from email - the Protected View that previously opened up in seconds - now hangs for ages with a little box saying "Streaming additional files" ... and then slowly opens the file.
If I "save to" .. then I still get Streaming message when I locally open - but it opens much quicker. But why should I save it first ? I've even disabled the Protected File modes ... no different still Streaming.

The web is full of people absolutely fed up and gutted with this ridiculous set-up.

MS's excuse is they say its to get the software up and running for users quicker and then it will just download additions when needed - that's total crap ! Typical MS brush-off.

Nigel

I'm not real sure what MS software you're referring to Nigel.....?

I run both Office suite 2008 and 2010....2008 on my main frame mini tower and 2010 on this lap top........both running 2008 XP Pro....both using old AMD single core Turion 64 and ATI Radeon xpress 200m, 1.6ghz 2.0gb Ram.....mini tower has NTFS 100gb capacity, lap top NTFS 80gb capacity....

I'm in Excel, Power Point, Word, Explorer, Outlook, Google Chrome ect. ect.,both on-line and off-line everyday writing reports, building spreadsheets, business corresponding, Transferring documents, chatting, surfing, make occasional vid's and still albums.....I'm even on the College Moodle website where all of my course work and student profile info is stored and performed/submitted/reviewed...at least 6 hours at a time!

I'm even on this lap-top for work, out in the field, using a Sprint Mobile Card for service reception/transmission........even those issues you describe seldom occur!

I even use a few "cloud" services for banking, business data storage/retrieval and headhunter services.........not once have I ever experienced any of the above issues your'e referring to related to MS being a hog in storage capacity or streaming up-dates (repair) patches.......it is a little slow at times, due to the old processor......and my up-load/down-load speeds from my supplier (with router engaged) are only 5Mbps/20Mbps consistantly...!

Every piece software I use was originally loaded from a hard disc on both pc's.......Exceptions are the Mac devices I use for audio recording and playback...software updates......and college performance data......!

I'm not sure where your PC time is spent (work source or home PC source) seems your "at work" more than home....so I assume your'e on a "company" unit, "company" service provider and dealing with "commercial" end-user results and protocal......

Apparently, even with the PC operation/knowledge you possess, you have no control over your environment or tools at your disposal to over come the questionable issues your are experiencing......

I think I'll back out of this thread.....to many "questionable" details and not enough time to "be of any assistance" here......;)

Note:

I even run an old version of Desk Top CADD on the mini tower.........to review and sign-off on working drawings related to road and utility design.....seldom an issue transferring/downloading/storing or modifying......!
I quit on-line "gaming" (except Poker Stars) on the PC's 5 years ago...due to "memory" hogging and poor patch speeds........That's why Xbox and Playstation are so popular......even for the hard core guys like my kids friends, they all have converted over to seperate, stand alone gaming platform systems....to keep their PC's free of clutter and performance issues related to "Internet" protocal!

solentlife
05-09-2014, 07:46 PM
pizzano :

The latest versions of Office have a streaming part ... you install the main parts from your DVD disc or downloaded Licenced copy.

It installs and you think it's all there ... but in fact it is not. There are still additional parts that will be pulled from MS servers when called. Your installation of Office basically continues in background till it finally reaches its finish - a long time after you made initial install.

This PC in front of me is the only one I use that has 2013 and Win 8 ..... I refuse to have such on any of MY machines. It is a company machine and therefore Licenced for them ... not my place to change it.

Office 2007, 8 and 10 do not have this unless you buy limited versions that you then accept option to upgrade. Depending on the additional item / upgrade you wanted - the streaming could be short or prolonged.

pizzano .. we are talking different Office versions completely. If you Google : Office 2013 streaming or Office 2013 repair ... you'll see MS Support and their spiel about it all ... as well as all the 3rd party forums / help sites all condemning it.


Nigel

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 09:07 PM
I run 2013 also, but haven't experienced any of what you have.

pizzano
05-09-2014, 09:57 PM
pizzano :

The latest versions of Office have a streaming part ... you install the main parts from your DVD disc or downloaded Licenced copy.

It installs and you think it's all there ... but in fact it is not. There are still additional parts that will be pulled from MS servers when called. Your installation of Office basically continues in background till it finally reaches its finish - a long time after you made initial install.

This PC in front of me is the only one I use that has 2013 and Win 8 ..... I refuse to have such on any of MY machines. It is a company machine and therefore Licenced for them ... not my place to change it.

Office 2007, 8 and 10 do not have this unless you buy limited versions that you then accept option to upgrade. Depending on the additional item / upgrade you wanted - the streaming could be short or prolonged.

pizzano .. we are talking different Office versions completely. If you Google : Office 2013 streaming or Office 2013 repair ... you'll see MS Support and their spiel about it all ... as well as all the 3rd party forums / help sites all condemning it.


Nigel

Yes, Nigel....we are, somewhat, talking different MS Office versions....the 2013 Windows 8 version is "cloud" serviced by both MS and third party "cloud" vendors.....I'm aware of this version....and yes, the IT guys we have "hard drive" every software...and service the newer versions through the "cloud" application.......we use it at our business office and it is a commercial "licensed" product......I do not use it often, since my "bay" station at work (by my request) has the option, either Windows 7 or Windows 8 (without) touch screen application.

I do not and refuse to use any thing associated with Windows 8 (our IT guys stand behind my choice as well, they hate dealing with the protocol, all of which have been recently trained in the newest MS OS's).......but there are many, more competent, younger users at work who love it.......probably due to what they have "broken their teeth on".....iphones, ipads, android and touch sensitive systems.

thepiper92
05-09-2014, 10:24 PM
For pc I never knew touch screens, and to this day I will never spend money for one to sacrifice perfomance. 1000+ for a intel hd 4000, no thank you. Can't wait for window 9, brilliant start screen, simple command prompt desktop...fast, clean, simple

fhhuber
05-09-2014, 10:31 PM
Loving Linux

You can run Windows in a virtual machine in Linux and its twice as fast and just running Windows on the same machine.
That's how bad Windows is at resource management. Linux won't let it be that wasteful.

solentlife
05-09-2014, 10:42 PM
Loving Linux

You can run Windows in a virtual machine in Linux and its twice as fast and just running Windows on the same machine.
That's how bad Windows is at resource management. Linux won't let it be that wasteful.

One of the biggest hurdles that Windows cannot defeat is Pagination.

No matter what they do, the fundamental fact is a PC is NOT truly multi-tasking. It pages in and out constantly, especially the heavier the packages get - .. they try and convince you that since the change from 640 to todays version, (that more follows DR Dos idea), .. that pagination is gone .. that's horse-manure.

I run a little utility on my XP machine at home ... it shows a little useage bar on the command line and figs next to it - memory occupied / memory recovered from windows by the utility. It speeds up the machine ... by doing the job better than windows itself. I can't remember the name or version ... something like FreeMem ... a shareware app.

You can click on it and a box opens up and shows you what is swapping in / out .. how the memory is being used ... It's shocking !

Nigel

kyleservicetech
05-10-2014, 02:02 AM
For pc I never knew touch screens, and to this day I will never spend money for one to sacrifice perfomance. 1000+ for a intel hd 4000, no thank you. Can't wait for window 9, brilliant start screen, simple command prompt desktop...fast, clean, simple

Somewhere I read that people that use those touch screens at work are developing shoulder problems from repetitive motion, reaching over to that screen over and over and over.

pizzano
05-10-2014, 02:36 AM
On my very first lap-top I ran an older version of Linux......

Here's the short version of a long list of reasons why I prefer not to use Linux:


There’s no standard edition of Linux. Whereas Microsoft offers several different editions of each version of Windows, there are countless variations of Linux. For a new user it can be confusing to work out which is best for you.
Linux has patchier support for drivers (the software which coordinates your hardware and your operating system). This means you’ll sometimes find it trickier to get a new device set up.
Linux is, for new users at least, not as easy to use as Windows. That’s largely because Linux gives you more control, but does mean you’ll have to spend some time getting used to the way it works.
Because Linux is neither as popular as Windows, nor a commercial product, support works in a different way. You may have to look harder to find the answer to a problem and, while Linux supporters are more likely to offer help, it may not always match your own level of technical understanding.
Many of the programs you are used to in Windows will only run in Linux through a complicated emulator. These programs aren’t guaranteed to work perfectly, and in some cases may be noticeably slower.
While Linux can be suitable for an individual user, its small market share means it’s much harder to introduce in a corporate setting. With most office workers already familiar with Windows and Microsoft programs, there’ll likely be a notable time cost in converting staff to using a Linux system.
While there are perfectly passable alternatives to many popular Windows programs (such as the various Office components), some high-end applications such as Photoshop don’t have as close equivalents in Linux.
Fans of PC gaming may find Linux offers them a much more limited range. That’s partially because the latest games are nearly always a commercial operation and much harder to reproduce in Linux because they are much more individual than, for example, office software.
While there’s no specific reason why this should be the case, in practice quite a few users report finding printing can be troublesome to set up in Linux.
Because Linux is a free, open source system, there are no legal comebacks if you find software isn’t up to scratch or if it causes a problem. While there’s no guarantee you’d win, you do at least have some right of complaint with commercial products such as Windows.
Number 6 is the real deal breaker for me since I often interface my personal PC with the business office when on assignment. I may not have complete access or flexibility sharing, but the ease of data transfer, live stream and take part in conference or team meetings on the fly cannot be done in Linux succesfully...even if the business was set-up entirely in Linux.

Linux will serve the guy that likes to dabble, perform general office related functions, has intermid PC OS knowledge and lots of disposible time on their hands.....very well...!...until one tries to interface, patch/mix and transfer various QUALITY video/audio files or CADD (even though we know Mac is the best A/V system).....Linux falls short even worse than Micrsoft in that area....been there, never more....:rolleyes:

thepiper92
05-10-2014, 03:02 AM
100% agree. Linux is a toy for me, not something I want to use always. It's fun to figure out how tog get stuff work, change settings, and so on. Getting windows programs to work is about 50/50 chance, maybe more now, and they often run slower through wine, especially games, often due to graphics drivers not working well. It's important to note that gnome is fast in Linux, KDE is actually much slower.

solentlife
05-10-2014, 05:15 AM
On of the shipping companies we work with ... one of their Directors is involved in Linux and all his ships run Linux on-board.

I haven't found one yet that people don't moan about it. Anyone who joins his company has to have a training course just to get up and running with the systems.

Other ships have Windows based and XP is most popular and still when ships systems are being installed XP is the standard. (We are talking cargo calculation / inventory, husbandry and comms .. Engine Room and equipment control would NEVER be under Windows !!)

Nigel

kyleservicetech
05-10-2014, 05:55 AM
On of the shipping companies we work with ... one of their Directors is involved in Linux and all his ships run Linux on-board.

I haven't found one yet that people don't moan about it. Anyone who joins his company has to have a training course just to get up and running with the systems.

Other ships have Windows based and XP is most popular and still when ships systems are being installed XP is the standard. (We are talking cargo calculation / inventory, husbandry and comms .. Engine Room and equipment control would NEVER be under Windows !!)

Nigel

The company I worked for before retiring installed an SAP computer software system for six of its many many different manufacturing plants. That SAP program handled everything, from ordering hundreds of individual parts based on a customer order, guiding it through mfg, preliminary testing, final testing, packaging, shipping, and billing customers.

The program is extremely complex. There were only a dozen employees that were granted access to the entire program. One if the IT guys told me it was 25 million dollars, not counting the computers used to run it.

At the SAP start up, someone screwed up, and entered an order for 100 of our circuit breakers for a customer on the USA East Coast. The customer wanted ONE of those breakers. No one in the entire process caught the error.

Only problem was, they were 1200 pounds EACH, and some $25,000 EACH. You'd better believe that never happened again.

pizzano
05-10-2014, 06:44 AM
One of the recent graduate courses I completed, Production Systems Analysis, we discovered that SAP AG was the number one (real-time) material management and production planning software used globally, in all major maunfacturing industries....

It was started by 5 ex-IBM engineers from Germany around 1975........it is a multi-function application that not only tracks and plans material resources and output, but also has the ability to plan & schedule manpower resources, logistics, inventory, as well as forecast demand and revenue/production requirements and expectations....

It is a very expensive software/operating system and there are only a handful of institutions that train "engineers/accountants to run and maintain such a powerful tool........not just your average systems management guy gets on board this system......average salaries for those fortunate ones, is well over $250,000.00 annually.