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ron_van_sommeren
07-14-2014, 01:40 PM
You have been banned for the following reason:
Multiple Cross Posts
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
I can't even appeal anymore.
25 'reasons' (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018) for my permanent ban:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018).

edit, add: My 25 posts (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018) were all made within say half an our.

Porcia83
07-14-2014, 02:19 PM
It's been known to happen. :)

It stings for a bit, then you move on.

solentlife
07-14-2014, 02:33 PM
WOW !

Given the amount of rude, insulting and downright crass posting over there - I find that amazing ! I didn't think you could get banned over there - only if you failed to follow the advise of the 'preferred few' !!

I am a regular over there - because as we all know - it is the most active RC forum ... but my personal preference is Wattflyer - for it's friendly and generally non-conflict atmosphere.

I'm sure if you wanted to contest it - I or someone else would confront moderators over there for you ?

Nigel

pizzano
07-14-2014, 04:39 PM
Sounds like somebody over there got bent out of shape for "who knows" what reason.

It's not always the moderators that have the quick "ban" trigger.....the administrators are just as quilty (they hold the keys)......more often than not (on most reputable forums) a ban is issued after a mod has ran it by an administrator first........RCG is no different, I have a friend who was a mod there 4 years ago.......only lasted 6 months, he just walked away from the site due to double standards and lack of quality control....on both ends of the forum operation.
I was mod'ing at RCDiscuss at the time and we swapped "horror" stories...........neither he or I visit RCG or RCDiscuss any longer.....common sense and fair play do not exist at either of those forums and they both are funded/owned/sponsored by fairly large private Asian product manufactures/distributors and cater heavily to Asian owned product sponorships....it's certainly could be related to culture and save face (as interpreted by the key holders) issues.......;)

If one reads the following dissertation:

http://www.rcgroups.com/pages/history.php

One could get the impression that the forum is currently operated by U.S. concerns, which is not entriely correct. Once the original web site got popular and needed cash to become more than a man's dream of writing an electric RC book (and discovered real money could be made at this)...things changed dramatically.......on or about or shortly after 2005, the owners at that time, developed their own product based retail outlet, it's been refined over the years:

http://www.indiemerch.com/RCGroupsStore

But today, the largest part of the web-hosting financials come from the product sponsors ie. Hobby King.......it could still be maintained by some of (what's left) of the old guard U.S. founders (getting that info is very difficult since HK got financially involved)......but, like everything else in business/economy, follow the money trail, there comes the rub related to culture.....

That said, RCG is the oldest, most complete RC web-site still in existence, which came from small means and out of pocket resources of just a handfull of nerdy engineers/rc enthusiast......it's "data base" is one of (if not the most) cataloged and historic of any web-based RC site available today.......it's global marketing/distribution pressence (thanks to HK) is un-matched, way bigger than Horizon, as an example!

How did I come by this information.....?........There was a group of us who put together our Master Thesis based on e-commerce and web marketing. We researched, interviewed (spoke with those in management who would give us the time of day) several web-based rc model/hobby sites and related walk-in retail outlets like Hobby People, Hobby World, Horizon, GWS....ect. The Horizon and Hobby World guys were the most insightful and directed us to lots of history related to RCG (which seems to be the web model many of the current vendors researched as well).........
The biggest, most astounding thing we found out was just how much money (profit) this industry has generated over that last 8 years.......it's well into the high 7 figures at all most every (high profiled) web based retailer/wholsaler.........Guess The RCG founders caught onto something at just the right time..........;)

Brner
07-14-2014, 05:32 PM
It's their loss!!

JetPlaneFlyer
07-14-2014, 08:13 PM
That's totally ridiculous. I'm struggling to see any infringement in any of the 25 posts?

fhhuber
07-14-2014, 08:18 PM
That site isn't worth wasting time on anyway.

Bub Steve
07-14-2014, 10:05 PM
I can't even appeal anymore.
25 'reasons' (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018) for my permanent ban:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018).

edit, add: My 25 posts (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=3018) were all made within say half an our.

I fly and know some of the "Big-Snots" ( Oops I mean shots ) over there and could intervene and ask to "let-Up",,,, It's there lost as your about the most knowledgeable folk I've ever had the pleasure to know,, Your a BIG Asset to any forum lucky enough to have you Posting there, I do intend to let a few folk know over there how prettiness is dissappointing to say the least,, Thanks for all the help you have been for me just reading your advice to others and myself,, Your Bub, Bubsteve

solentlife
07-14-2014, 10:34 PM
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2206017#post28911463

Here's my text from that post :

Member : ron_van_sommeren

RCG claim multiple posting ...

Sorry but this is ridiculous, it's laughable if it wasn't so serious.

One of the real good guys who goes out of his way to help others ? Are you guys really serious ?

So what Moderator / Administrator had their nose put out of joint to warrant this ?

Considering the insulting, rude behaviour of some of RCG's favourites - I can think of some who should be permanently banned, but they are allowed to continue in their style ...

I suggest that RCG's reconsider and contact the victim "ron_van_sommeren " and re-instate ...

I would not blame him if he stuck digits in the air and stayed away ...

Note : This is not posted on his request ... I decided personally to contest this action of RCG after hearing of the action taken. He has in no way been instrumental in prompting my post here.
I will be making him and others aware of course .....

Nigel

ps - maybe you'll ban me for speaking out ... !

Be interesting to see what they say !!

Nigel

Ron - as you know - much nicer bunch this side !!

OrangeFlyer89
07-15-2014, 12:30 AM
;)

Konrad
07-15-2014, 01:33 AM
Ron,
You gave the site a lot of free user generated content (solid and technically accurate) only to be kicked in the (well you know). We here in the internet waste land of what is left the information highway thank you for your efforts. It was you that really got the CD ROM thing going. I can say it gave me hours and hours of pleasure rewinding my motor.

Again thank you for the effort. While you might think that your contributions to RCG was wasted (and they were) your efforts to enlighten the membership was not!
Again I thank you!

Friends don't let friends fly nickel,
Konrad

P.S.
Ron, some of us lifers can't see the links you post link to. Is there a way to link to the details so that those without an RCG account can read up on your ordeal?

Don Sims
07-15-2014, 01:39 AM
Ron, perhaps their spammer filters caught you and a human will straighten it out. I have to log in over there to view your links but unfortunately forgot my user ID and password there!!

I know we frustrate new users here with our anti spammer filters. A few new folks having problems let me know but it makes me wonder how many potential new members we've lost over the years.

CHELLIE
07-15-2014, 02:17 AM
Hey Ron , I Hope your Not Upset at being bared from that other Silly Site :D I dont even hardly go there, I Like it better here ;-) Everyone Puts up with me here :D :D :D LOL
Take care and Have fun, Chellie

sgtdirt
07-15-2014, 04:03 AM
welcome to the "club"!
i see a few former members have already chimed in so i figured i may as well too.

first off, i truly appreciate all the time and effort you put into the motor thread (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240993).
secondly, don't sweat it. i'm sure one of the Jim's will over turn your ban, as your contributions out weigh any of us other "club" members contributions.
thirdly, if you do get reinstated, i would take all the info in your sticky thread and transfer it to a personal blog...then erase all of it from that site. they benefit from the sweat off your back not the other way around.

also, look around. how many big names do you see post over there anymore? i wonder why that is...:rolleyes:

(if all else fails, ask porcia83 how to get a ban rescinded)

solentlife
07-15-2014, 06:56 AM
Ron ... WE love yer ! And Appreciate your input.

Here's reply I got over there :

(QUOTE=Jim T. Graham;28912004)I looked into this and he cross-posted pages of the same post. I have not heard from him about this.

And my reply :

It would be difficult for a Permanent Banned person to post an appeal ....... he has no communication path through the forum ...
Nigel

I agree with others .... if Ron - you do get re-instated ... remove all your great info in Sticky's and put to a personal Blog .... remove all the great work they are sitting on and make it plain that YOU are the author.

Nigel

Konrad
07-15-2014, 07:13 AM
"I looked into this and he cross-posted pages of the same post. I have not heard from him about this."J. Graham

And that warrants a permanent ban for life!

Something really smells in both the shorts of the Jims!
I'd like to see the Jims (management of RCG) admit they made a mistake, and reinstate Ron. Let the punishment fit the crime! Helping the membership is no crime! Therefor no punishment is justified. The RCG management stole your user generated content!
At least the dead tree press would pay their contributing editors for content, even if they throttled them in what they could write about the advertisers and their product.

Friends don't let friend go to RCG,
Konrad

eljimb0
07-15-2014, 10:00 AM
I'm sorry Ron,
It has to hurt to be separated from the enormous body of work you left there. I was always surprised how much of their petty small minded behavior you put up with.

CHELLIE
07-15-2014, 10:20 AM
"I looked into this and he cross-posted pages of the same post. I have not heard from him about this."J. Graham

And that warrants a permanent ban for life!

Something really smells in both the shorts of the Jims!
I'd like to see the Jims (management of RCG) admit they made a mistake, and reinstate Ron. Let the punishment fit the crime! Helping the membership is no crime! Therefor no punishment is justified. The RCG management stole your user generated content!
At least the dead tree press would pay their contributing editors for content, even if they throttled them in what they could write about the advertisers and their product.

Friends don't let friend go to RCG,
Konrad

Now Thats Funny :D :D :D LOL I dont care who you are, Thats Funny, LOL :D :D :D

pd1
07-15-2014, 12:10 PM
Ron, I've read many of your posts over the years they've all been helpful.
I think they made a big mistake, their loss.
Glad you're still here.

Paul

Porcia83
07-15-2014, 01:15 PM
welcome to the "club"!
i see a few former members have already chimed in so i figured i may as well too.

first off, i truly appreciate all the time and effort you put into the motor thread (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240993).
secondly, don't sweat it. i'm sure one of the Jim's will over turn your ban, as your contributions out weigh any of us other "club" members contributions.
thirdly, if you do get reinstated, i would take all the info in your sticky thread and transfer it to a personal blog...then erase all of it from that site. they benefit from the sweat off your back not the other way around.

also, look around. how many big names do you see post over there anymore? i wonder why that is...:rolleyes:

(if all else fails, ask porcia83 how to get a ban rescinded)

Don't know what works best, but I do know what doesn't. That's going back to the site with one sock account after another, despite being asked to leave. Continuing rants laced with profanity and violence. Begging to come back and limiting activity, but when denied, saying "well I didn't want to come back anyway". Or, have a wicked good friend keep pestering the mods to let their banned friends back. I would guess that won't work.

It's interesting to note that some of the folks most vocal about what a horrible place RCG is were previously there for years, and had thousands and thousands of posts, but were ultimately banned (right or wrong). And of course went back repeatedly with sock accounts. And let's face it, still go back if for no other reason than to see what's going on. And then monday morning quarterback everything that happens.

And then there are those that took the opportunity to start their own place and have a real go at it. With a minimum amount of bashing, Gyro went and started his own place and it seems to be pretty successful to date. Modeled almost exactly the same as RCG, rules too, right down to corporate sponsorship.

As for going back on and then erasing all the posts, how silly. Retaliatory and punitive, and serves what purpose exactly? The reality is having a blog serves both involved. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement. One has a platform to share information with, one that is completely FREE. The site benefits from having content, and getting clicks, and getting more traffic and interest, and of course that helps with advertising revenue. If the goal is to help others in the hobby and share the information one has, why would you go back and delete it? If it's that great, why not start your own site. I've seen a few ex members swear they were going to start their own place, share all their amazing information and knowledge, and of course the place would run perfectly. RC website utopia. Still waiting to see it.

Porcia83
07-15-2014, 01:32 PM
Ron, perhaps their spammer filters caught you and a human will straighten it out. I have to log in over there to view your links but unfortunately forgot my user ID and password there!!

I know we frustrate new users here with our anti spammer filters. A few new folks having problems let me know but it makes me wonder how many potential new members we've lost over the years.

Once you're a member there for a while, the spam filter doesn't really come into play. They have monkeyed with different methods over the past few years, none of it seemed to work completely, where there's a will, there's a way. I do have to commend this site as well as the RCU, I can't recall seeing any spam at either place. I don't recall the sign up process but I don't remember it being difficult.

Ron ... WE love yer ! And Appreciate your input.

I agree with others .... if Ron - you do get re-instated ... remove all your great info in Sticky's and put to a personal Blog .... remove all the great work they are sitting on and make it plain that YOU are the author.

Nigel


Nigel it was nice of you to put up the appeal. The most ironic part of JG's response is that he hasn't heard from Ron. Of course he hasn't, that's how it's set up. They send an e-mail that you have a PM, so you sign in to get it, and it's telling you you're banned, and can't use any function of the site. The mods will also not take e-mails regarding any mod activity, and they also note they won't take appeals from anyone other than the affected member. His response was disingenuous at best. Perhaps your message is enough to have them take a second look though. Maybe Ron will get an e-mail advising of reinstatement, with the mod comment of "oops, our mistake, lol". It's happened before. Plenty of people were banned and came back. I've seen them admit that mistakes were made, and they didn't follow their own policies and procedures, and try to make it right. Mistakes happen and hopefully can be corrected.

I'll disagree with you on deleting content though. That only hurts those that can learn from it, why punish them? If the goal is to go back, what other purpose would there be than to continue to get and give and get information? Deleting it doesn't "show" the website anything, it's clearly Ron's work, it's just housed on their platform (for free). He can always start his own place and store it there, and then have a link to it in his profile. That way he has ultimate control over his stuff. But, the drawback is exchange of ideas/information, and exposure. There are things that can be done better there for sure, but at the end of the day the place is the most active forum there is, and provides the best exposure.

ron_van_sommeren
07-15-2014, 02:00 PM
Thank you guys&girls, and notably Nigel :)

Posting identical messages in response to similar (opening) posts is not cross-posting. I had already reported dailydigitaldeals spam several times, after seeing people wasting their time on answering that spam. Then I did a word-search for dailydigitaldeals. Instead of reporting them, thus hiding the messages, I posted the warning message below in 24 of the recent (week back) threads I found. Hidden messages don't give people information about what's going on.
Several of the threads I posted in had not (yet) had replies.
The 25th warning I received was for a message about healthusb, same spam method.
All 25 warnings received within 13minutes.

Ray, Mark, don't bother, it's dailydigitaldeals spam. Quote opening post, select 'underwater' screen http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/editor/switchmode.gif, end of message: dailydigitaldeals.

Indicators:
* first post
* account name style
* complex

It's a 10second job to add dailydigitaldeals to spam-filter.
Apparently RCGroups prefers their members to waste time on useless help/answers.

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
www.rmvc-cumulus.nl (http://www.rmvc-cumulus.nl)
www.modelbouwforum.nl (http://www.modelbouwforum.nl)

Porcia83
07-15-2014, 02:09 PM
I think their concern with spam filters is one Don noted, they don't want to alienate new members. But then again, most legit new members don't post up links to their companies selling stuff.

What's disappointing about your situation is that someone took the time to report them all (in theory), that's the way they were brought to the mods attention. Making it worse, the mod should have been able to see your message was to warn people about the spam, not promote it (or another agenda). And there are only one or two mods there, and your name is well recognized. It appears it was a conscious decision on their part. Hopefully they will take a second look at it.

NJSwede
07-15-2014, 02:46 PM
Have you tried to reach out to Jim T Graham personally? This is obviously a mistake and he should be able to take care of it. I think I have his email address somewhere if you're interested.

rcers
07-15-2014, 02:56 PM
I can help too. I know Jim - and am an Author there that gets me into a few private forums with him.

Happy to help if you need it! Pretty sure it is a mess up.

You can also create another account - just for the purpose of communication, if they have not done a perma-ban on your IP.

At any rate - since many are blasting RCG - I will add my $0.02....

RCG is a fine forum run by pretty good guys (and gals). They are not perfect but the content there is a gold mine. I am super glad you are happy with WF but please remember many of us participate on both and RCG does not deserve the rough up it sometimes gets.

I also use RCU but much less now.

I am super glad we have more than one source of information!

Just saying that not everyone hates RCG. I know Jim and Jim, Angela and Jason all PERSONALLY. They are great folks and my friends.

Lets continue the WF tradition of taking the higher ground - as we normally do - PLEASE!

Mike

Porcia83
07-15-2014, 02:58 PM
Well stated, perfect.

There all a lot of great sites out there for all of us to use, none perfect.

Konrad
07-15-2014, 05:13 PM
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Now Thats Funny :D :D :D LOL I don't care who you are, Thats Funny, LOL :D :D :DHumor and reporting span will get one banned at RCG. I know this first hand.

As I'm sure Ron will find out, as I did, it actually is a blessing in disguise. I found a lot of time for my own hobby pursuits.

I was on the forms because I want to give back to the wonderful hobby (also up the participant count to help with political numbers in Congress) not to generate ad revenue for RCG. E-zone was a great site before pictures entered the posts. Despite the very poor management of RCG I did make some very good friends (in person and in correspondence). Also many of us banned members have had a positive effect on the industry (hobby, not so much on the web shill sites) .

All the best,
Konrad

ron_van_sommeren
07-16-2014, 12:04 AM
25 messages from RCG :)
Boldface by me.

Again, thank you guys&girls for your support and pats on the back.

Greetings from the moderation team on RCGroups! This is an automated message concerning one of your posts that had been issued an infraction. The infraction for this post has been reversed and any points the infraction dealt have been erased from your infraction point total.

Link to post: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28891417

Reversal reason: Administrator reversed the infraction
Note from administrator:
Thank you for your cooperation, patience, and contributions to the site.

Happy R/C-ing!

sgtdirt
07-16-2014, 12:27 AM
[QUOTE]Or, have a wicked good friend keep pestering the mods to let their banned friends back. I would guess that won't work.
oh, i guess that little quip is directed at me. do you really want to go down that path? why don't you try coming over to "the site that can't be named" again.

As for going back on and then erasing all the posts, how silly. Retaliatory and punitive, and serves what purpose exactly? The reality is having a blog serves both involved. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement. One has a platform to share information with, one that is completely FREE. having is own blog is by far the way to go. he can keep it lean and mean like he wants without offending anyone or worry about getting infraction points. he can write about different aspects of motor building. the possibilities are endless.The site benefits from having content, and getting clicks, and getting more traffic and interest, and of course that helps with advertising revenue. exactly! and how does this benefit anyone except the Jim's and crew? or is it Krue?

NJSwede
07-16-2014, 12:45 AM
This was obviously a mistake and it's corrected now. As for making money off the site, well, good for them. I'm part of running a much smaller forum, and let me tell you, given the amount of work it is, I'm happy that someone actually can make a living from it.

crxmanpat
07-16-2014, 01:37 AM
Gentlemen,

Let's leave the tensions from other sites where they belong; at those other sites. We don't allow that stuff here at WF. This is all I will say on the matter.

pizzano
07-16-2014, 01:37 AM
This was obviously a mistake and it's corrected now. As for making money off the site, well, good for them. I'm part of running a much smaller forum, and let me tell you, given the amount of work it is, I'm happy that someone actually can make a living from it.

It's not the site making money aspect.......cudos to any that can generate at least operating revenue.....it's more about the "compensated" and trained help servicers......it's one thing to have a bunch of "volunteers" helping out and not be on their toes all the time, but if one is paid to perform a service, the service must be accountable and provided adequate oversight (regardless if the members pay a fee or not)......something that has been lacking for years over at that "other" site......
Many times, overlapping, over-flexible, micro-managed and often misinturpretted rules/tools of engagement (like what has been the case) causes more harm than good on both sides of the fence in a social network environment.......ask Facebook, YouTube and Google, ect., who are constantly modifying protocol in order to keep a step ahead of the Net idiots and grow with their customer (member's) needs and desires........something I doubt we'll ever see accomplished (given the funding distribution aspects) at the "other" web forum.
EDIT:
If the leadership over "there" is listening, they would be wise to monitor other like web based forums to see just how well they are percieved by their peers.........;)

Konrad
07-16-2014, 01:40 AM
Ron, The ball is now in your court. Play it as you like, knowing the ethical stance of the other side.

We are all for some making a profit. But we want it done above board and with fair play.
Pay for the content or at least give back something to the membership. As RCG is run now it is very reminiscent of the colonial powers raping the resources (minerals and peoples) of there colonies. Or put another way might is right!

Our only real viable options we have are to call the Jim's on their gross mismanagement of RCGroups and to boycott the site.

All the best,
Konrad

P.S.
OK Pat. I'll step down off my soapbox. But I am forever vigilant of internet bullies! Let the logic of ones arguments persuade the membership not terror tactics.

Porcia83
07-16-2014, 01:52 AM
25 messages from RCG :)
Boldface by me.

Again, thank you guys&girls for your support and pats on the back.

Well lookit that. A mistake was made, and corrected. If you believe everything that's been written, that makes only two times in RCG history that's happened. ;-)

Congrats !

Porcia83
07-16-2014, 02:04 AM
[QUOTE=Konrad;953223]"...We are all for some making a profit. But we want it done above board and with fair play.

How is allowing someone to have a blog not fair play?

Pay for the content or at least give back something to the membership. As RCG is run now it is very reminiscent of the colonial powers raping the resources (minerals and peoples) of there colonies.

It's disappointing to see the horrible act of rape attributed to this situation. It's not even close. I don't see why any website has to give anything back to it's members. It's presence, and the free use of the site is enough isn't it? There is no "right" to use a site, it's a privilege. And it's voluntary. Who is forcing anyone to go to any site and put up content? Nobody. People do it for a whole host of reasons, why is irrelevant, but at the end of the day nobody is forcing them. And of course the TOS are pretty clear that the content belongs to the site owners once it's there.

I do agree however that there is an option of not using the site.

crxmanpat
07-16-2014, 02:39 AM
Konrad,

Not directed at you specifically. But I just wanted to remind the membership here to leave their squabbles with other members at the other sites. Personal attacks are not tolerated here and issues will be dealt with swiftly.

Don Sims
07-16-2014, 02:50 AM
Here's our TOS area we're concerned about from a few of the posts, please keep your comments civil:

HARASSMENT & FLAMING:
WattFlyer members are not permitted to harass or "flame" other members. Please do not post or transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, including, but not limited to, any material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, violate the rights of others, or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law. Please note that this also includes the posting of taunts on a forum solely for the purpose of demeaning that forum's topic and/or members.

Porcia83
07-16-2014, 02:50 AM
[QUOTE=Porcia83;953136] "....

having is own blog is by far the way to go. he can keep it lean and mean like he wants without offending anyone or worry about getting infraction points. he can write about different aspects of motor building. the possibilities are endless.

exactly! and how does this benefit anyone except the Jim's and crew? or is it Krue?...."


When you say have his own blog, do you mean on RCG, or his own site? At either one he can keep it lean and mean, or go on and on. In this case it wasn't blog content that was the issue.

As for benefits, it goes both way doesn't it? The site is free, but the platform and storage space isn't. Systems wise, it's fast and rarely has problems. A member can start a blog, with unlimited pics and content, and it's completely free and voluntary. The content is provided by the member, but becomes the sites (which everyone agrees with in the TOS). Good content should mean more people coming to the site, regardless if they sign up or not. The helps drive revenue. I honestly don't see what the problem is. Is it bad that they make money?

I don't see an alternative suggested by you. I've suggested that a person can start their own site if the ones available aren't to their liking. I've seen people say they were going to, but it hasn't happened. As someone earlier said, it's tough to do.

I wouldn't think erasing a great body of work would be helpful to anyone.

Konrad
07-16-2014, 03:29 AM
Konrad,

Not directed at you specifically. But I just wanted to remind the membership here to leave their squabbles with other members at the other sites. Personal attacks are not tolerated here and issues will be dealt with swiftly.Pat, I didn't think it was, well not until you mentioned my name. Why would you even single me out? My posts are trying bring to light the inadequacies of RCG's management not any one member of WF. And to let Ron know he is (was) not a lone in the having taken a blow from the blind ignorant(1) management of RCG

And to the member that thought that "RAPE" was too harsh a term. To my way of thinking it isn't harsh enough. It was not used as a reference to sexual violation but rather the violation of the membership at large for the thievery of intellectual content. Such as that offered by Ron and others. Some folks might be content with the idea of a site that is solely that of a Mutual Admiration Society (RCG) as adequate. Then this purpose should be made clear in the rules and guidelines for posting.

But to have RCG constantly breaking the sacred covenant between of the technical contributing member (in this case RON) with incomprehensible rules inconceivable interpretation of those rule is a farce.

Pat (or any other Mod), If you think I'm in violation of the posted guidelines please PM with your detailed point by point concerns.

All the best,
Konrad

(1) Ignorant does NOT mean stupid. It means lack of knowledge. And to that end I'm ignorant of the workings of RCG.

sgtdirt
07-16-2014, 03:34 AM
As for benefits, it goes both way doesn't it? The site is free, but the platform and storage space isn't. Systems wise, it's fast and rarely has problems. A member can start a blog, with unlimited pics and content, and it's completely free and voluntary. The content is provided by the member, but becomes the sites (which everyone agrees with in the TOS). Good content should mean more people coming to the site, regardless if they sign up or not. The helps drive revenue. I honestly don't see what the problem is. Is it bad that they make money?
"making money off of others sweat" is the Jim's mantra. if it wasn't for the content the members provide, like the great content in Ron's sticky, that site wouldn't be as prolific. to see Ron just get swept under the table is a huge insult. it's like Jim's don't even care about their long standing members (imop, they do not care one bit).

I don't see an alternative suggested by you. I've suggested that a person can start their own site if the ones available aren't to their liking. I've seen people say they were going to, but it hasn't happened. As someone earlier said, it's tough to do.

I wouldn't think erasing a great body of work would be helpful to anyone.huh? please read my posts. i think you missed the part where i suggested he start his own blog. not one at that site. that would be kinda silly. but one of his own.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=create+your+own+blog&oq=create+your+own+blog&gs_l=firefox-hp.3..0l10.1943.7016.0.8174.20.14.0.6.6.0.169.1471 .6j8.14.0....0...1ac.1.34.firefox-hp..0.20.1524.8C57os4lEtA&gws_rd=ssl

pizzano
07-16-2014, 03:35 AM
Haven't seen this much activity on a thread (from WattFlyer members who have posted here 276 times or less, over an 8 year period or less) in quite some time.....could it be those most active now are carry over "victims" from the "other site"........just popping in here now to sound off.......????

sgtdirt
07-16-2014, 03:42 AM
this isn't the first time Ron has had a run it with the Jim's.
he used to have links as a semi signature. well, they can't have that!! just because he's only had that same sign off for YEARS, they made him remove it. iirc, it was based on ONE complaint and that complaint was provided by a now banned member.

geesh, nice job, jim's. :rolleyes:

Porcia83
07-16-2014, 04:09 AM
"making money off of others sweat" is the Jim's mantra. if it wasn't for the content the members provide, like the great content in Ron's sticky, that site wouldn't be as prolific. to see Ron just get swept under the table is a huge insult. it's like Jim's don't even care about their long standing members (imop, they do not care one bit).

huh? please read my posts. i think you missed the part where i suggested he start his own blog. not one at that site. that would be kinda silly. but one of his own.


yes, I'm familiar with the concept of starting a site/blog. Your earlier comment was this:

having is own blog is by far the way to go. he can keep it lean and mean like he wants without offending anyone or worry about getting infraction points. he can write about different aspects of motor building. the possibilities are endless.

That would still fit having a blog at RCG. It's his blog, nobody else accesses it, and he controls the content. It's rare that anyone gets pointed for blog content, unless of course it violates the TOS. I get what you're saying now, and agree, the possibilities are endless if he does his own private blog.

To that point, one must wonder why there aren't so many great RC blogs out there with all that content that is found on the major RC sites. Could it be that it's time consuming, might be technically difficult, and of course cost money? And let's not forget the exposure. The very site we're on now benefits financially from our content, so does the sister site, so does most any legitmate RC based site. Why has it become wrong for any site to make money?

If I'm getting a place to get and give information for free, members are using the site to their liking, and the site makes money, why is this bad? I honestly see this as a win win for everyone involved.

Konrad
07-16-2014, 04:17 AM
Haven't seen this much activity on a thread (from WattFlyer members who have posted here 276 times or less, over an 8 year period or less) in quite some time.....could it be those most active now are carry over "victims" from the "other site"........just popping in here now to sound off.......????I have to say I was as surprised as you to find I had an account here. Historically this site was never my cup of tea. I have to say that I was tipped off to Ron's ordeal from another site that tries to speak the truth about this hobby industry.

Because Ron had used this site to air his displeasure with the management insanity of RCG I thought it appropriate to confirm and validate his observations and the conclusion of others.

What does my post count and time line have to do with the subject at hand? The subject being RCG incompetence at managing their resources (human intellect, AKA, Ron van Sommeren).

All the best,
Konrad

crxmanpat
07-16-2014, 05:19 AM
Gentlemen,

Let's leave the tensions from other sites where they belong; at those other sites. We don't allow that stuff here at WF. This is all I will say on the matter.

P.S.
OK Pat. I'll step down off my soapbox. But I am forever vigilant of internet bullies! Let the logic of ones arguments persuade the membership not terror tactics.

Konrad,

Not directed at you specifically. But I just wanted to remind the membership here to leave their squabbles with other members at the other sites. Personal attacks are not tolerated here and issues will be dealt with swiftly.

Pat, I didn't think it was, well not until you mentioned my name. Why would you even single me out?Konrad,

I did not single you out. I only mentioned you in direct reply to your post script in the first post I quoted above. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

ron_van_sommeren
07-16-2014, 01:31 PM
RCG made a mistake, they corrected it, all 25 of them ;), with the help of people in this WFF thread.
Everybody happy :)

I cannot reply in Nigel's RCG thread, otherwise I would have mentioned it there too. As well as my thanks :)

solentlife
07-16-2014, 02:49 PM
RCG made a mistake, they corrected it, 25 times ;), with the help of people in this WFF thread.
Everybody happy :)

I cannot reply in Nigel's RCG thread, otherwise I would have mentioned it there too. As well as my thanks :)

No problem ... I know that you would appreciate the help.

I've been the victim of 'over-zealous' action over on RCG ... so it's not exactly new ground for me.

So lets' all get back to the hobby we all love and ...

Cheers
Nigel

rcers
07-16-2014, 02:54 PM
Awesome Ron - that rocks. :)

Murocflyer
07-16-2014, 08:31 PM
When Brad and sgtdirt got banned from RCG, I really felt it was a big loss for RCG. They are both excellent builders and there are not many people left on RCG anymore that are willing to help others with their balsa builds that are as skilled as they are.

I asked the mods to allow them to come back but to no avail. I didn't see anything that they did that was bad enough to deserve a ban. As noted, infractions are user generated so they had to have people report them numerous times.

I also though that Konrad got a bum deal and when one of his friends was posting there I was hoping we could get him back as well. His knowledge of engines is beyond approach.

I have always wondered why people can't just treat each other with respect and not go out of their way to harass someone but I guess people are people and feel the need to belittle others. I can certainly attest to no matter how polite you try to be, there is always someone willing to pummel you publicly for no reason no matter what.

Glad to see Ron's ban was reversed.

Frank

Konrad
07-16-2014, 10:24 PM

I also though that Konrad got a bum deal and when one of his friends was posting there I was hoping we could get him back as well. His knowledge of engines is beyond approach.

I have always wondered why people can't just treat each other with respect and not go out of their way to harass someone but I guess people are people and feel the need to belittle others. I can certainly attest to no matter how polite you try to be, there is always someone willing to pummel you publicly for no reason no matter what.

Glad to see Ron's ban was reversed.

FrankWell, gosh thanks (blush). But I have been known to make mistakes. I claim to be the king of improving things until they don't run!
But I think most of my post history was in the build section of RCG. I love the small of balsa dust!

To be honest I knew of my impending ban because I tend to hold management to a higher standard. By my read of the posted guidelines I was rarely in violation (a few times I was bear baited, but). I knew what the Jim's really wanted but they did not have the intestinal fortitude to spell it out in detail.

Now as to the banning of my friend based solely on his guilt by association for knowing me and my work. That is what has driven me to the rants you might see against the mismanagement of RCG. They had his email address and didn't even bother to ask if he knew what was happening under his account. Little or nothing he posted was in violation of the posted guidelines. Yet he was banned for life for associating with me.

I'm glad this gross example of over reaching management was corrected. Ron can now work, or not, with RCG as he sees fit.

Friends don't let friends fly nickel,
Konrad

Murocflyer
07-17-2014, 10:22 AM
No reason to blush as it is well deserved praise. I know you helped me learn a lot when I moved from electrics to glow. Typically people do it the other way, but I started cheap and them moved up to flying glow and gas. I read all I can in the engines forum and you always were prompt with answers to not only my questions but to many others as well.

It is a shame your friend got banned from there. That sure was a case of collateral damage that is for sure.

Forums are funny things. There is so much good in them and at the same time so much bad in them. I have thought of closing my account at least a dozen times or so over there but since there are so many people that use their classifieds section I can never pull the trigger. It is a valuable resource that I would hate to lose if I closed my account so I do my best to try and overlook all the drama.

And to be honest, there are only so many people on any forum that actually knows what they are talking about and also willing to provide help and assistance. When those valuable people such as yourself, sgtdirt, Brad, Bill G, and some others that I know I am forgetting, it sure leaves a hole in a forum.

I hate to see people get banned from a forum forever. Too bad regular users don't have a say in that and can have some kind of vote to get them back. I think that would be cool and also show that the owners are willing to work with its users since after all, it is the user base that makes or breaks a forum.

Just look at 3DRC forum. Gary got the boot from RCG and started his own 3D flying forum. That forum is a huge success. Clearly it shows that Gary was an extremely valuable member of the 3D community but when he tried to defend himself against of few people that were harassing him on RCG he got the boot. Seems to me that the wrong person got the boot in that situation. Just think how he could have helped RCG grow but instead is helping the 3D community from another forum.

Wow, that turned into a lot of typing. :eek:

Frank

Konrad
07-17-2014, 04:51 PM
Frank,
Thank you for the kind words.
And thank you for letting me know about Gary's form. Is this Gary Wright of E3D fame? The timing is perfect as I'm just starting to learn some 3D maneuvers (actually getting back into flying).

It looks like RCG has yet to learn how to manage their most important asset, that is self motivated highly dedicated people. Unfortunately for RCG the dedication is to the hobby not RCG!

This isn't just a problem for RCG but all business that have more than a few contributors. 20% of the folks do 80% of the work/innovation. HR (management) makes policies to address the 80% but what makes an organization great is the 20%. We are also the hardest to manage as we think outside the box.

Now great organization have processes to work with their core personnel/assets. Sadly RCG is not a great organization.

RCG doesn't value and has lost sight that it is usable content supplied by the few that bring the eye that the advertiser seek. Nobody wants to read review written for the advertiser to sell their product. We want to know what the faults are in a product and how to address them.

Ron was the reason I went to the CDrom forms. It was there that I might see an ad for some CDrom kits or new out runner motor. Again it was Ron that supplied the information I was looking for. As a result my eye were exposed to the ads. Again RCG has lost sight of this business model. It will be their down fall.

Gotta go, I see my registration to 3DRC has been approved!

All the best,
Konrad

Murocflyer
07-18-2014, 08:25 AM
Konrad,

Not, it is not Gary Wright. He goes by Gyro on the forum. To be honest, it is probably the most friendliest forum in the RC community. I have had zero issues there and only have seen maybe two problems between users on the forum. I guess that comes with being such a tight nit group and genre of RCers, or maybe the users there just know how to treat others with respect.

Hope you enjoy it as I always learn a thing or two when I visit there as it is my "go to" forum for motor related questions. It seems like the guys who fly 3D know a lot about motors and are willing to help any way they can.

Frank

Murocflyer
07-18-2014, 07:29 PM
Here is another thought about forums. You can put thousands of hours in on the forums helping others and very rarely do people care. At the end of the day when you move on, no one will care. Sure, there will be a few, but not many.

Here are a couple examples. There was this guy on RCG who had 20 thousand and something posts on the regular forum and probably just as many in the places that don't count in adding posts. Yea, there are people with that many over there believe it or not. He was the self proclaimed "face of RCG" and used to report people he thought were not living up to RCG's policy. In the end, he turned out to be a huge troll and RCG gave him the boot. Prior to his life sentence, did anyone tell him to stop trolling because he would be missed and RCG could not function without him? After 40,000 posts or so and no one said to stop and just "be cool"? Nope. And is the forum still going strong without him? Yup.

And another. I was spearheading a building contest. I had arranged prizes and everything. It was gonna be real cool. Before it started, I had some serious personal issues that took me away from spearheading it and the forums in general. Prior to leaving, I asked someone else to take it over since I did not want to see it end. Did anyone care what was wrong with me? Did anyone send me an email asking what was wrong or volunteer to help? Shoot no. Not until a month later after I left and when people thought they were going to be "shortchanged" on their prizes did the bad mouthing start about me having to drop out of leading the contest. But I still never got an email asking what was wrong, only negative and demeaning posts about me "letting them hang". Good thing is that finally someone took over the contest but not without all the bad stuff being said about my character.

I've seen people think they are really important on these internet forums but truth be told there are very few people that actually care one way or the other that they are on here. Those guys that do care are genuine on and off the WWW.

At the end of the day they are just another username. Folks need to realize that and not get all excited about being "the guy" on an internet forum and try to be someone they are not.

Wow, another long post about RC forums. :)

Have a nice day.

Frank

solentlife
07-18-2014, 10:45 PM
I've spent years blending fuels for Military and Civilian use .. dang - I bet many of the US on here have probably burned some of my blends in their cars and trucks !!

On yachting forums - many were and still are concerned about Bio Fuel and effects on their engines. The pressure to end 0.2% Red Diesell etc. ....

So I helped many with trade info on the fuels and REAL effects / truth about the fuels already on market ... I provided support to International Yachting Groups and Bodies ...

I couldn't believe it one day when I read a post that called my Wife a Russian ... that \I was being conned by her Russian family ... how all I wrote was a figment of my imagination ... the post was a long and totally insulting mess that only a drunken fool could have written.
It ended up with my losing my registration on the forum, all the information I had uploaded deleted .... and the author of the crap ? Only 1 post deleted - the offending one. He was temporary suspended.

Did anyone help ? Only a few close friends who knew me personally ... but would you believe that MORE people stood up for HIM !

I was later contacted and asked to rejoin ... why ? They wanted to have access to my info again ... I rejoined but it wasn't same .. I'd lost that spark of interest ... The other guy was full of himself ... how he'd got away with it basically.

I haven't returned there in last 2 years ...

Sad thing was - the loss of all that info which is still valid today ... the original Admin / creator of the forums was a pal of mine ... but meant nothing at end of day.

I run and created a number of forums ... basically had own interests to pursue and knew others had similar ... so why not. I literally do not post in any now .. I just moderate. They have their own life now ...

Nigel

Murocflyer
07-20-2014, 07:03 AM
I've spent years blending fuels for Military and Civilian use .. dang - I bet many of the US on here have probably burned some of my blends in their cars and trucks !!

On yachting forums - many were and still are concerned about Bio Fuel and effects on their engines. The pressure to end 0.2% Red Diesell etc. ....

So I helped many with trade info on the fuels and REAL effects / truth about the fuels already on market ... I provided support to International Yachting Groups and Bodies ...

I couldn't believe it one day when I read a post that called my Wife a Russian ... that \I was being conned by her Russian family ... how all I wrote was a figment of my imagination ... the post was a long and totally insulting mess that only a drunken fool could have written.
It ended up with my losing my registration on the forum, all the information I had uploaded deleted .... and the author of the crap ? Only 1 post deleted - the offending one. He was temporary suspended.

Did anyone help ? Only a few close friends who knew me personally ... but would you believe that MORE people stood up for HIM !

I was later contacted and asked to rejoin ... why ? They wanted to have access to my info again ... I rejoined but it wasn't same .. I'd lost that spark of interest ... The other guy was full of himself ... how he'd got away with it basically.

I haven't returned there in last 2 years ...

Sad thing was - the loss of all that info which is still valid today ... the original Admin / creator of the forums was a pal of mine ... but meant nothing at end of day.

I run and created a number of forums ... basically had own interests to pursue and knew others had similar ... so why not. I literally do not post in any now .. I just moderate. They have their own life now ...

Nigel

Wow, that is awful! The sad thing is that we see that so often it is unreal. I think people love seeing that stuff because they love the drama. They prefer to see the crashes than a clean car race or fights at a hockey game rather than good skating and finesse puck handling.

What a shame.

Frank