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-   -   Precision Aerobatics Addiction X (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71577)

squidger 08-20-2013 09:34 PM

Precision Aerobatics Addiction X
Been lookin at these and decided it was about time to commit. Wow what a lovely airframe. Well designed and put together. Bit of a pig to assemble as you need to cut out openings and re iron covering down. Spent about 30 hours on it as wanted a good end result. Gonna maiden it tomorrow weather permitting. she weighs 48 ounces (3 pounds) and the motor and prop combo is supplying 500 watts +.


dereckbc 08-20-2013 10:45 PM

Nice looking plane. Fly it on simulator all the time. Wished I still had the patience to build a balsa. Oh well!

squidger 08-20-2013 11:41 PM

All the balsa work is done for you. It comes already covered etc and you have to cut out openings for servos etc fit aileron elevator and rudder hinges then iron covering over the top. Fit your motor esc receiver and battery and set it up. It actually sounds like not alot of work but the hours fly by. Should be worth it though.


dereckbc 08-21-2013 01:53 AM

I am new to the hobby so excuse my ignorance but is that what is called ARF or Almost Ready to Fly?

JetPlaneFlyer 08-21-2013 06:12 AM

Yeah, it's an ARF but all Precision Aerobatics' ARF's need a bit more work than most other brands and they have a few idiosyncratic little details. Having said that my PA (the Ultimate AMR biplane) didn’t take anything like 30 hours. Just a few evenings did it, maybe 10 hours absolute tops. But we all build at our own pace and it should be part of the fun of the hobby, not a chore. Compared to the 'good old days' when you really did build models (from a pile of balsa sticks and sheets) then it's really no effort at all.

My personal bugbear with PA planes and the bit that leaves be saying to myself "I can’t believe they are making me do this" is the pushrods. They are just plain carbon rods onto which you have to carefully bind little bits of bent wire onto the ends of, glue then put on heatshrink. They are totally non-adjustable which makes setting up the initial length a painstaking process and servo set up a real pain. They have no ball links like you find on any other decent ARF so they get sloppy pretty quick.
Also the tailwheel which is very fragile and just glues onto the rudder rather than being mounted on a proper bracket attached to the fuselage like all other decent quality models of this size, the tailwheel usually lasts about 3 flights if flying from grass!
I think PA is aiming for maximum weight saving with these details but personally I'd rather have something that weighs a couple of grams more but works properly.

But those little niggles aside, they are really very nice models which build lighter than anything else in their class and fly great. For those who like slow and 'floaty' flying 3D models there is nothing in balsa to touch them.

Squidger.. what hardware have you got in there?

squidger 08-21-2013 07:43 PM

You're right the pushrods are just carbon rods that you glue to the clevises so allows for no adjustment when setting radio up. In the Addictions case they supply ball joints for ailerons and elevators and a closed loop rudder system although I didn't use the closed loop and opted to fit another servo in the rear and run a rod with ball joints straight to the rudder cause I have a heavier motor fitted and needed the extra weight in the rear for balancing. I am using the running gear out of my recently deceased Carbon Z Yak. That's a 1000 watt motor about 1000kv running a wooden 14 x 7 prop.

Maidened her today and she flew brilliantly. Only problem I had was there was no neutral aileron position in the instructions and if you set it up neutral at the wing tip you get up deflection at the root and obviously neutral at the root gives down deflection at the tip. I found out by trial and error that down at the tip is the best option for maximum lift at slow speeds. It's quite a big model at 50 inch span and has a large fuselage making knife edges a breeze. My friend took some photos and when he has forwarded them to me I'll post em on here.

Put 8 batteries through it today and really enjoyed the flying. Each flight resulted in more confidence and lower hovering. All landings were at walking pace high alpha and perfect touchdowns. It doesn't like taxying as the wind blows it over with such a large wing chord and area. All in all well satisfied.

JetPlaneFlyer 08-21-2013 08:18 PM

Good that the maiden went well. The Addiction must have a slight upgrade to the pushrods compared to the AMR, there is not a ball joint or proper clevis to be seen on the AMR, just bits of wire with Z bends on the end.

Sounds like the ailerons are twisted, a little heat off an iron should fix that in short order.

By the way, despite my whining about the pushrods the AMR is a great little 3D model if you ever are looking for a biplane.

squidger 08-21-2013 08:25 PM

The ailerons are flat and both identical. It's the washout in the wings that causes the problem. Without the washout it would tip stall as you approach the stall and you defo don't want that in a model that flies slow and low. Even the supplied clevises (one end of the rod has a balljoint and the other an aluminium clevis) are drilled and tapped and come with screws to fit. The hardware is excellent with this kit. They even supply a wooden control deflection gauge to make setting up throws easier.

JetPlaneFlyer 08-21-2013 08:50 PM


The wings aren't intended to have washout, of that I'm 100% sure. If they did when you flew inverted they would have 'washin' which would be very bad for a 3D model. 3D models need to fly the same way either way up. If the wings have washout then it's them that need the iron applying. A parallel chord wing wont be prone tipsall anyway, it's sharply tapered wings that get tricky.

If i recall correctly one wing panel on my AMR was twisted when i got it, i had to pull that out with the trusty iron.

Suggest you ask about this twist thing in the PA Addiction X thread on RC Groups, there are many there with the same model and they would confirm if it's a normal feature or not (I say not): http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=addict+x

squidger 08-21-2013 09:19 PM

Thanks for that I will check out the thread.

squidger 08-21-2013 10:16 PM

Bloody hell that's a long thread. So far I have read 50 pages and no mention of setup of ailerons. I have seen a lot of pics and they show that I am not alone and the wing is supposed to be like it. If the wings were warped then I have the misfortune of having 2 wings with the exact same warping. Heres one of the pics and you can clearly see the aileron drooping at the wingtip.


I will carry on reading the thread as long as I can tonight but it looks like over 200 pages.

squidger 08-21-2013 10:57 PM

Can't read any more it just goes on and on. Have emailed PA direct. Just gotta wait for an answer.

squidger 08-22-2013 06:09 AM

PA were quick to answer. They say to set it up level at the wing tip and sight the root from the rear to make sure they are level and if not level to sub trim them both a little to level up.

JetPlaneFlyer 08-22-2013 06:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeah. it's a long thread. In the photo I'd say that the aileron is 'drooping' simply because it's not centred, not due to any twist of wing or aileron. Best bet on that thread is just sign up and ask the question. Some of the PA reps post there and answer questions.

If you want to get an answer from PA I've found by far the most responsive is the head office in Australia. email 'Adad': '[email protected]' (Adad is female by the way)

By the way.. i found this section in my AMR manual specifically saying there should be no washin or washout and it this was present it has to be removed by heating the covering... I'd guess your manual says the same?


squidger 08-22-2013 08:26 PM

Just checked a mates unbuilt kit and his wings are the same as mine. In light of precision aerobatics quick response I am assuming the wing is correct the way it is. The model flies superbly. I just wanted to know whether the ailerons faired at the tip or root. adjusting the ailerons would be easy if they were twisted but they are both flat. Adjusting the wing would be a nightmare.

Bub Steve 08-22-2013 08:51 PM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by squidger (Post 920797)
Just checked a mates unbuilt kit and his wings are the same as mine. In light of precision aerobatics quick response I am assuming the wing is correct the way it is. The model flies superbly. I just wanted to know whether the ailerons faired at the tip or root. adjusting the ailerons would be easy if they were twisted but they are both flat. Adjusting the wing would be a nightmare.

Don't sweat it, She'll fly great, been fly'in these for years and they can handle a tad of "not quite right" anyway, I spent 30 Rebuilding mine from tail to nose and wingtip to wingtip:red:, still fly the pee-squat out of it:D

JetPlaneFlyer 08-22-2013 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by squidger (Post 920797)
Adjusting the wing would be a nightmare.

If you are happy with it then that's fine.. However untwisting the wing is usually simplicity itself. these lightweight un-sheeted wing structures are dead easy to 'un-warp'. You just gently twist in the opposite direction and re-tension the covering to hold the new position.

It's the fact that they twist so easy that makes them prone to warping in the first place. As i said, one panel on my AMR had a bad warp and the fuselage had a really bad twist. The wing was easy to fix but the fus took a fair bit of work... but I got it all dead straight in the end.

squidger 08-23-2013 12:31 AM

I'll see how I get on with it. As I said my mates kit is identical so I'm not sure anythings twisted and I'm pretty sure Precision Aerobatics answer would have been "they should match at the root and the tip" not line up at the tip and check the roots are the same if the wing wasn't supposed to be like it.As said she flies great. Have ordered a new 840 kv motor for her as the 1000 kv motor in it doesn't sound right since it had the coming together with the power lines when it was in the Carbon Z Yak. The recommended thrust 40 motor is 850 kv.

JetPlaneFlyer 08-23-2013 06:11 AM

Hmmm.. 840kv, that wouldnt be the Turnigy SK3 3548 by any chance?

That should fit fine, it is however a fair bit heavier than the Thrust 40 but i guess if you put the rudder servo in the tail you might need the weight.

I have a Thrust 40, it's a real nice motor. The direct equivalent is the Hacker A30-14L which is a direct drop in replacement with identical performance. Under the skin the Hacker is identical to the Thrust 40 which leads me to conclude they are probably made in the same place in China. They both seem to have the same kv despite the label indicating otherwise.

The SK3 3542 800kv would be the nearest match to the Thrust 40 from the Turnigy line up if you wanted to match weight and performance. The SK3 range is basically copies of the Hacker range.

squidger 08-23-2013 10:49 PM

Yeah that's the motor I've gone for. It is heavier than the Thrust 40 but actually lighter than the eflite motor I had originally fitted. I'm flying my Addiction x with a CG of 142 mm which is 10mm rearwards of the recommended cause I find it flies better and is easier to high alpha like that. There seem to be no adverse issues with this rear CG. With the original motor and the rudder servo in the tail I just positioned the battery at the rear of the battery tray to achieve this. If I position the battery further forward with the new lighter motor I should get the same CG. The Turnigy motor is a 1/3rd of the price of the Thrust 40 and rated to 750 Watts with a similar kv so should be more than enough. The Turnigy motor is approx 20 g lighter than the eflite motor currently fitted.

JetPlaneFlyer 08-24-2013 09:14 AM

I found the CG recommendation on the AMR to be miles out too, but in the opposite direction. I had to move the CG about 8mm further forward for neutral handling.

You most likely know already that the easiest was to check CG on a 3D model is trim for level flight at about 3/4 throttle, then roll inverted. It should either continue to fly level or very slowly descend, personal preference dictates which to go for.
If it climbs when inverted you have the CG too far back, if it dives quickly it's too far forward.

The SK3 are pretty decent motors and very good value. I'm sure it will be ample power for the Addiction. The only problem I found running one of the 3548 SK3 motors is that they aren't as structurally strong as some. If running a large prop at high power and doing violent 3D stuff you could literally tear them in half. My advise would be to use a light wood prop (Xoar or Vox) to minimise the stress, your photo looks like that's what you are running so that's good. It is only a issue if you do really violent stuff at full throttle, most people probably wont have any problems.

Here is the aftermath on my two week old motor (this happened in flight not as result of crash or prop strike)

squidger 08-24-2013 12:43 PM

That's exactly how I work out best CG position except I do it at half throttle. I look for the model to fly straight and level then invert and look for a very slight descent so I have to use minimal down elevator.

Blimey that motor must have gone with a bang. I prefer if possible to mount my motors the other way around as that puts the mounting area less distance from the forces the prop puts on the mount if you understand what I mean. I have mounted some the same way as you due to airframe design and thankfully have had no issues although on my dogfighter running 4s I went through a spate of shafts shearing in flight when the throttle was banged open quickly which resulted in the prop chewing up the front. I replaced the 4mm shaft motor with a 5mm shaft one and that cured that. The dogfighter has some torque roll and will turn left at about 40 degrees if you bang the throttle open at low speeds and also banks quite violently at launch.

LSP972 08-24-2013 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by dereckbc (Post 920647)
I am new to the hobby so excuse my ignorance but is that what is called ARF or Almost Ready to Fly?

Dereck, what he describes re the bit of work needed is pretty much standard among ARFs. IOW, its not like a foamie where you take it out of the box, plug in the servos, charge the battery, and go fly. OTOH, the work required is NOT involved and is within the capabilities of anyone who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Your reward for that work is an airplane that is a TEN TIMES better flier.

I have been in the hobby for almost 30 years, and recently became interested in electrics. The cheap (and some not-so-cheap) foam models dominate the e-power scene, but there are some excellent balsa ARFs made specifically for electric power out there. As an aside, converting a model intended for IC power to e-power can be done, but not a good idea for a first project...

Anyway... balsa ARFs have their good points and bad, just like anything else. But they fly sooooo much better... if that matters to you.;)


squidger 08-27-2013 09:13 PM

New motor arrived today. Fitted it coupled to the new 70 amp ESC. Put the meter on it and it's pulling 50 amps and 550 watts. Weather tomorrow is supposed to be glorious sunshine and only 4 knott winds. Let the fun begin.

Took my bike out today and did 250 miles and enjoyed every second. Arse hurts a bit but worth it. Happy Days.

squidger 09-09-2013 12:39 PM

New motor set up performed excellently and very pleased. However I found myself having to trim the model first one way then the next and couldn't understand why till I carried out more stringent ground tests. The cheap metal geared servos I used were returning to a different neutral position each time ie push rudder to full left then release stick and it stops with slight right rudder then push to full right rudder and release stick and it stops with slight left rudder. Ailerons were the same and elevator too. With this model and such large control surfaces it really shows in flight. Have junked em all and am currently waiting for a set of Turnigy mg servos in the post.

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