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-   -   WattFlyer and Kit/Scratch Building - Are they dying or is it something else? (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74425)

Leon 09-09-2014 09:59 AM

I do agree with some of what has been discussed. However. I also feel that there is room for foam ARTF's. I am a child of the sixties, brought up on Guillows, Keil Kraft, Veron and the smell of dope. (That came out of a bottle, not a doobie.) I find the sound of elastic bands "thunking" against a dope taughtened wing a nostalgic turn on. There is room for both pathways. I just prefer the stick and tissue one.

Turner 09-09-2014 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 956837)
I feel that hobby shops are potentially killing themselves. I can understand paying more for stuff if I get good service, but with the service of many places (not just hobby shops) what's the point.

The point is you can drive there and get it now if they are close by. Once they are gone you no longer have that option. So, if people don't support them they will not last.

solentlife 09-09-2014 05:59 PM

Personally I think it has all to do with 'I want it now' .... 'I dont want to build' ...... and profit margins competing with Chinese art / rtf etc.

Nigel

solentlife 09-09-2014 06:06 PM

Oh and on subject of Watt flyer and its old style .... I for one am quite happy with it. I know we are not supposed to name other sites, but comparing WF to RCG is like chalk and cheese... I frequent RCG basically because of the larger amount of posting ... but so often leave there feeling annoyed with the crass behavior of many there. But WF is friendly and helpful.

Nigel

thepiper92 09-09-2014 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turner (Post 956851)
The point is you can drive there and get it now if they are close by. Once they are gone you no longer have that option. So, if people don't support them they will not last.

It goes both ways. I am will to pay more at my hobby shop if I get help on what I am looking for, help on setting stuff up, and advice (such as being told an ARF I was looking at is very light built and can't handle wind). If a hobbyshop is full of people who know nothing about rc, or try to sell the most expensive thing, even if it isn't that good, well they deserve to fail. The larger hobby shop in my area is exactly that, just trying to make a sale, while the other one, they will give up a sale (I didn't buy that ARF because of what he told me) and tell me the truth. This is important, as I, and others, will stay loyal. Now I do buy a lot of planes online, not because of the cost, but the availability, specifically kits and ARFs I am looking at. Parts for helis, glues, wood, and many other things, I do pay more at the hobbyshop, but they are helpful. People should support their hobbyshop, but a hobbyshop should not wonder why they are going out of business if they don't offer what people want, have poor service and, especially if service is terrible, sell at too high of a cost.

thepiper92 09-09-2014 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 956853)
Personally I think it has all to do with 'I want it now' .... 'I dont want to build' ...... and profit margins competing with Chinese art / rtf etc.

Nigel

Very true, but there is no reason these Chinese companies, or American companies that make RTF and ARF's in China, can't just simply not assemble a plane, and it thus becomes a kit.

pmullen503 09-09-2014 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 956854)
Oh and on subject of Watt flyer and its old style .... I for one am quite happy with it. I know we are not supposed to name other sites, but comparing WF to RCG is like chalk and cheese... ......

RCG does have a better interface for viewing and posting photos and files. WF could use a software update.

I still place copies of my build logs on both.

Turbojoe 09-09-2014 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 956854)
Oh and on subject of Watt flyer and its old style .... I for one am quite happy with it. I know we are not supposed to name other sites, but comparing WF to RCG is like chalk and cheese... I frequent RCG basically because of the larger amount of posting ... but so often leave there feeling annoyed with the crass behavior of many there. But WF is friendly and helpful.

Nigel

Yep, it seems just about every thread on RCG goes off topic and turns into an huge arguement by the 10th post. This thread is already three pages deep with many opposing views yet it's still civil. That's why I'm starting to hang out here so much more. The people here are so much nicer.

There is such a thing as getting TOO big and for me RCG has gotten there.

Joe

Brner 09-09-2014 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbojoe (Post 956870)
.......There is such a thing as getting TOO big and for me RCG has gotten there.......

Joe


Sure hope my wife doesn't get to feeling that way.....:concern:

Stevephoon 09-09-2014 10:20 PM

Keeping positive... What types of things specifically would you like see changed / added /to WattFlyer.....

Here are some of mine:

1. Enhance the "My Hanger". I'd like a photo, a place for quick specs and a user rating. Maybe it should look like a photo album... It needs to be searchable as well... Maybe a link to it directly on your ID of each post. (The list of things that pop up when you click on a user's name)

2. All Photo Uploads should automatically resize as needed. (I did notice that when doing bulk uploads only the specific files that are too big fail now instead of all of them.)

3. I still think some sort of better beginner area maybe needed, but I'm not excatly sure what / how....


I'm sure I'll think of some more....

Steve

Turbojoe 09-10-2014 12:09 AM

While there isn't much real estate left there I'd like to see a link to the classifieds up there at the top of each page with the "Home" Membership" Who's online" etc. Kind of like RCG.

Hmmmm, aren't we starting to stray a bit off topic.......:)

Joe

thepiper92 09-10-2014 01:22 AM

Ultimate RC (URC) has a good layout too. I actually don't like the setup of RCG, I prefer a simple layout. Anything I post in RCG I have to go back to look for posts. HeliFreak has a nice layout I find, though I am not on it too much (on it more the more I get involved with helis). There are a few nice things, such as threads stating the OP, meaning that each post from the OP shows thread starter next to name. Guess it isn't that important, but if someone else chimes in on a thread, asking a question, at least you know that it isn't the OP and you can avoid diverting away from helping the OP.

mclarkson 09-12-2014 04:15 AM

Semi-off-topic, but since it's been brought up before ... I've mentioned this previously in other places but, although I can upload photo attachments to a thread, I haven't been able to upload any images to the Member Gallery for years.

I select the file(s), fill in the fields, click Upload/Submit, and the site goes to this page -

http://www.wattflyer.com/photopost/uploadphoto.php

- which remains blank and never does anything. This problem has persisted across multiple computers, browsers and operating systems.

pizzano 09-12-2014 05:19 AM

Member Gallery Photos
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mclarkson (Post 956988)
Semi-off-topic, but since it's been brought up before ... I've mentioned this previously in other places but, although I can upload photo attachments to a thread, I haven't been able to upload any images to the Member Gallery for years.

I select the file(s), fill in the fields, click Upload/Submit, and the site goes to this page -

http://www.wattflyer.com/photopost/uploadphoto.php

- which remains blank and never does anything. This problem has persisted across multiple computers, browsers and operating systems.

Mark......

That problem is not on your end, it exists here.........

Case in point, approximately 4 months ago (around May 2014), one of the long time members here was beeatching about not being able to add new folders to the Members Gallery......the member gallery photo count at the time was 7,432 and had been stuck on that number for more than a year........mysteriously within less than a week, the gallery photo count increased to 7,457 and remains at that number today..........

I too have tried on a few occasions to add/delete photos in my album selection, to no avail........and my PC operting system has no issues what so ever.....

Could it be more than just "not enough" web site space and not enough manhours available to manage or just who you know and can tickle here......:D..........????

maxflyer 09-12-2014 05:23 AM

I'll take a shot.

Which forum is better? Not sure of that one. I ended up spending more time on that "other" forum, simply because there were more threads
that were of interest to me. I also find the ability to view all the attachments for a particular thread to be very useful. When threads
becomes large, finding a photo that relates to what I'm looking for translates into less text searching. The photo posting procedure is
also very easy to use. As far as "friendliness" goes, I can't say that one forum is better, but WF does feel more "homey" in some way. It also feels a little out of touch.

As to processing and posting images, I think hobbyists need to educate themselves a bit about the subject. It's actually a somewhat
complicated subject, but most people only need to know a little for posting purposes. The important areas for us are:

DPI (dots-per-inch), or resolution.
Picture size in pixels (since we are only posting on the web).
File format (JPEG, TIG, GIF, etc.).

Virtually all images used on the web use a resolution of 72 DPI. Where does that come from? I really have no idea, but that's how it has
been done forever. Larger resolutions simply take longer to download, and offer no image improvement on the internet.

The perceived screen size of your image relates to the number of pixels per side, ie. 600 x 800 pixels. The larger the monitor, the
smaller that image will look on that monitor (the field of pixels increases with a monitor's screen size). Today we no longer worry as much as we once did about getting an image too large. Years ago many people still had 15" monitors, and it was a problem if image sizes were too large.

The other problem that relates to image size is the time required to download them. This has always related to the type of internet connection people had. Even today there are many people who only have dial-up connections, and those people must sit and watch large images fill in a bit at a time. Web designers are still conscious of this limitation, and usually work to keep image sizes modest.

We have that same issue on our forums. Do you want to quickly click through a series of images? Or are you willing to wait while larger
images piece themselves together?

The file format question is simple for us. It's usually just JPEG's. However, there is the matter of whether or not to add compression to
your image, and how much. This can make larger images more reasonable in size, and faster to download. Be aware, the greater the
compression, the lesser the quality of the image.

Hobbyists who post images should search the web for articles about graphic editing, and educate themselves. They should find a program
that will allow setting resolution and size, and possibly some image manipulation to improve (or even salvage) marginal images. When I'm
working on a model and decide I might want to post an image, I don't usually go and hunt down my professional digital SLR. I grab the
iPhone in my pocket, snap a quickie, email it to my desktop, and optimize the image for posting (I use Paint Shop Pro).

Hobby shops? I started building models in the 1950's. There were lots of hobby shops around. Hobby shops were for skilled hobbyists. That's right. Your skill level might be low. Maybe you were a rank beginner. But building and flying model airplanes required knowledge and skill! You had to have a pretty decent amount of skill to get ANYTHING into the air! You had to have intent, attitude, and perseverance (rare traits these days!). Many people never succesfully built and flew even a simple stick-and-tissue model until their knowledge, experience, and skill reached a certain level.

At hobby shops you met other builders. You got recommendations and technical assists from the shop owners, and probably spent a good
amount of your hobby time there. You looked forward to every visit. Hobby shops were magical places. Most were run by fellow hobbyists. I
doubt they made a bundle. And can you imagine the THOUSANDS of items a hobby shop must inventory and track? Not anything I would want to do. There really had to be a bit of love there to make those guys want to do it. The only other places you were able to get information about
building and product were through magazines and field meets.

The fraternity that once existed and inspired some hobbyists to want to run a shop no longer exists. There is a fraternity, but it's different now. It's watered down by those who just want to have an experience and then move on to something else.

The hobby market today is just as it should be. A product of the times. It serves the entire fraternity, but is largely designed for marketing. I can get virtually any kind of hobby information I desire from the internet. I don't require a hobby shop for that. While it's still beneficial to meet-and-greet at the field, to discuss and share, and perhaps see that model you read about, in action...by the time I get to the field I probably already have a wealth of knowledge, and may have seen the model flying on YouTube.

The fraternity, as it once was, is no longer needed. Few builders are building models that require the kind of technical expertise and experience once necessary to even participate. Most of us now buy our models ready, or almost ready to fly.

Then there's the fact that the human population is more than doubling every thirty years. What used to be an easy drive into the nearest
town is now just an irritation and loss of time. With a world of information at my fingertips to help me make buying decisions, I can
now just click a button, and just about anything I want will arrive on my doorstep in a few days.

The smart hobby shops that do still exist, realize their brick and mortar locations are likely to return less than internet sales, and operate accordingly. The best of these, Like HURC, where I do a lot of my purchasing, are saavy enough to provide detailed information
about subjects like matching props to motors for desired performance, making it even easier to make buying decisions.

Hey, Im an old guy from that other time, But I'm into it! With the loss of one eye I discovered I no longer can see well enough to slice
and dice balsa for a precision joint. Give me an ARF! I no longer have the reflexes of youth, nor the nimble mind that responds in
nanoseconds, and I have rammed into obstacles more than once due to lack of depth perception. Give me an easy-to-repair ARF! My profession
dictates I will work until disabled or dead. I have relatively little hobby and building time. Give me a quick-building ARF!

I will never forget those early hobby years. There was a romance and a thrill about the whole pursuit that can never be replaced. But that was then.

Maybe NOW isn't so bad. Things change.

Stevephoon 09-16-2014 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxflyer (Post 956992)
I'll take a shot.

.....


I will never forget those early hobby years. There was a romance and a thrill about the whole pursuit that can never be replaced. But that was then.

Maybe NOW isn't so bad. Things change.

Great comments! I think my problem has stemmed from starting so late in the hobby... I'm still catching up on most of you. I'll keep building as long as I enjoy it. It is great that you don't have to build if you don't want to... There is definitely more choices now than there has ever been.

Steve


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