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-   -   Zagi (48 inch wing span) with Stock Zagi 400 (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2251)

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 12:16 AM

Zagi (48 inch wing span) with Stock Zagi 400 & Brushless Power!
 
6 Attachment(s)
Dear fans:

Here we go again....today on my way home from work I stopped by a buddy's house who was keeping a Zagi (48 inch wing span) wing with completely new components. Two new Hitec HS-81's, fresh Zagi 400 with internal capacitors, Aveox A-15 Brushed ESC, carbon spar across the main wing assemblies, painted cowling to match propellers etc..

The covering job was done by Mark Shimei who frequent RCG's and hopefully soon he will come to WattFlyer!!!:D

Here's a couple of pic's

simano 11-05-2005 12:23 AM

nice!!...I really like the yellow scheme!!...Mark did a really good job there. It sounds like it's pretty much ready to fly as is...These Zagi's are pretty decent with the stock speed 400...so what's the plan?...fly the 400 till it burns and then upgrade to brushless?...knowing you the upgrade is bound to happen long before that 400 burns out!!...congrats!!

Gerry.

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 12:25 AM

2 Attachment(s)
The Zagi with out a battery pack nor a receiver tips the digital scale at 1 lbs - 1 7/8 oz. or 17 7/8 oz.

Certainly for the Zagi 400 there's is really no need to use the PRO-LITE Thunder Power 2100mAH, 3S1P (15C), Li-POLYs as the RED-LINE 1500mAH, 3S1P (15C) can do a very good job and they weigh much less!:D

qban_flyer 11-05-2005 12:25 AM

Love the color scheme, especially the winglets. Very, very nice!

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 12:32 AM

Gerry,

The plan is to fly this Zagi 400 until the Zagi 400 brushed motor no long can:D It maybe sooner than later:D

Of course, I promised Mark to check the Amp Draw with the 3S1P Li-POLYs of my choice and make sure that it does not go beyond 9 -10 AMPs:)

You should see it in person...this Zagi is much lighter than my Combat Wing as just the leading edge is made of EPP foam and the rest of the body is made of high quality injected foam.;)

Okay, the Zagi wing with the heavy PRO-LITE 2100mAH 3S1P (15C) pack weighs 23 oz. exactly and lets say an additional 1 oz. for the Hitec 555 would make it 24 oz.!

The Combat Wing is a whopper of 31 1/2 oz. "or" almost 2 lbs.!!:eek:

I am sure the Zagi wing will perform just great with the Zagi 400 for a while!:)

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 12:39 AM


Originally Posted by qban_flyer (Post 20536)
If it flies half as good as it looks, it's a winner. Love the color scheme, especially the winglets. Very, very nice!

Thank you !!

Yes, Mark told me that the previous owner liked the World War II trainer color scheme and this is why it may remind lots here about the war birds. The yellow was my primary reason I bought the Zagi from Mark as it can be seen very well with the main Yellow tape color.

I Love those large US ARMY insignia's!!!:D

Oh, it has flown with a Mega and then, he replaced it back with a new Zagi 400 as this is the way I bought it. The Zagi has flown once with each power system and Mark told me that it flys just great with the Zagi 400 with just 8 round cells (a little heavier) and so, can you imagine the 3-cell Li-POLYs:D

simano 11-05-2005 12:53 AM

17 ounces...that is light compared to the combat wing!!...I agree it will be fun to fly even with the speed 400 for a while.

Gerry.

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 01:01 AM

8 Attachment(s)
Improvements:

1. Reciever does not ride in Front and inside the canopy tray but, instead gets inserted on the Left root most of the wing assembly. Many times have I seen people with Zagi's that crash front first only to have the battery back (any) smash the expensive receiver assuming a dual conversion.;)

2. A propeller adapter was installed and this will keep that propeller in a much more secure manner.

3. The battery compartment has been enhanced to fit round cells and Li-POLYs. A false floor panel was made so the canopy / battery compartment can accept a hump pack (round cells).

Carlos:D

simano 11-05-2005 01:17 AM

Nice layout. IT IS good to keep the battery up front.

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 05:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Fans:

I am finished with the Zagi 400!

Hitec 555 dual conversion in Hitec shift was installed inside the Left Wing assembly and some flexible light foam was inserted around the receiver for protection.

A 2nd generation Thunder Power 2100mAH, (10C), 3S1P, Li-POLY will be used and the Wide Open throttle Amps was measured at 11.8 Amps steady. Guess we need to keep the throttle in check.

CG came right on the mark about 8 inches from the tip of nose to the rear.

Also, the total flight ready weight was measured at 23 7/8 oz. "or" less than 1 1/2 lbs.!!!:eek: Super light compared to my Combat Wing (almost 6 oz. more with combat wing) that consists of all EPP for all of it's structure.

Each wing has it's advantages and dis advantages... one is for Combat and the other well....:D

new2rc 11-05-2005 05:55 AM

Carlos, that is the coolest Zagi I have seen :) !

Looks to be going 100 mph sitting there.

John and Christo

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 06:00 AM

John & Christo,

Thanks!!! That was yet another reason I bought it....those neat tape graphics were expertly done to make that illusion and I just had to hold this Zagi as I just could not beleive it's super light weight!

Mark really did an expert job....he flys at times in California off some cliffs with some family and friends when he visits there....they call this slope soaring:D No motor, just total skill in keeping the model in front of the updraft.

Can't wait for the morning...I will measure the RPM's at the prop and see how well this Zagi 400 performs...I beleive it is a 6 Volt Speed 400.:)

guapoman2000 11-05-2005 06:10 PM

Flight Report:

Super roll rate even at low speeds....had some funny issues with the Aveox A-15 Brushed ESC at the field when attempting to connect the battery pack as the motor started to spin unsolicited manner. I was so confused that for a minute I was wondering if I had the correct Transmitter???:confused:

When, I picked it up from the table and asked a flying buddy to connect the battery to the ESC and the motor did not spin nor move and everything seem to be working as I observed last night during countless pre-flight checks.:o During flight I noticed a couple of times the motor cutting in and out intermittently.:confused:

This Zagi 400 with it's yellow and WW II trainer decals look just great!!! It's flight manners are of course nothing like a brushless power system, however, the Stock Zagi 400 brushed motor pushed this 1 1/2 lbs. wing along very well. Because of it's small diameter propeller the climb rate was pretty slow however, the roll rate and other aspects of flight was very good including the loops and inverted flight. It turns like it was on rails!:)

Flew it for a good long time perhaps 12 - 13 minutes the landing was something to see.....it continue to glide 30 yards passed the point I thought it was to touch down;)

Nice model and will troubleshoot the ECC, motor caps etc....

flypaper 2 11-06-2005 03:22 AM

Used to put a lot of miles on Zagies. A little tip. Cut the wingspan down to 40 ins. and you'll find a big jump in performance. Better roll rate, maneuverability, climb rate, etc.

guapoman2000 11-07-2005 01:35 AM

Super Weekend!!!!! Sunday 11-06-2005
 
Ladies and Gentlemen:

The Zagi 400 with the Zagi 400 brushed motor flew just fantastic. Two flights early morning and two flights in the early afternoon!!!:eek:

Yes, I arrived at the Club Field at exactly 8:00AM and left at 3:15PM:D

The average flight duration has been 13 1/2 minutes and the longest flight was 15 minutes 10 seconds. The shortest as I wanted to yield the frequency channel to another flyer and that flight was a little over 9 1/2 minutes.

I am getting used to the less powerful kick of the stock Zagi 400 and to my surprise it really does fly very well with better roll rate at slower speeds than my heavier Combat Wing XE-2. Of course higher wing loading explains this....;)

I am enjoying the longer flight durations this stock Zagi 400 is delivering with the 2nd generation Thunder Power 2100mAH, (10C), 3S1P, Li-POLYs.

The WW-II colors sure looks great at the club and many have inquired about it.

guapoman2000 11-09-2005 08:04 PM

Lunch Break Zagi flying at Space Center's R/C Field!
 
Got to the Space Center's R/C Flying Field and squeezed a 13 minute flight with the Zagi 400 (Stock Zagi 400 brushed motor) and 2nd generation Thunder Power 2100mAH, 10C, 3S1P, Li-POLYs and perhaps in 6 MPH winds coming from the North - North East.

I brought my flying buddy that has a Park Zone RTF Stryker F-27 (Stock) with the 480 brushed motor and he was impressed how well my Zagi 400 flew with the regular 6.0 Volt Zagi Speed 400 motor. The Zagi performed super roll rate and I was able to control the rate at the stick (flying seat of pants as my Transmitter does not have expo) and loops and high speed passes were very respectable for the power system it has. He informed me that should I give a thought of buying a Park Zone replacement 480 using the 3-series Li-POLYs and the Park Zone 7 X 4 propeller that I should be around 16 - 17 Amps at Wide Open and improve the Watts out along with the Propeller RPM's at the cost of perhaps 1/2 oz. heavier at the Aft.

Hum..... I will consider even the Astro Flight 010, 14-turn brushless motor setup in direct drive "pusher" using the same Guther prop. that comes with the Zagi's and 3-series Li-POLYs.

I will post soon on any conversion should I decide to proceed.:)

guapoman2000 11-10-2005 03:50 AM

Flew at Private Club Field after work (Orlando, Florida)
 
10 Attachment(s)
Well,

Took that Zagi 400 out to the Orlando R/C Associates (ORCA) Club field near the Orlando International Airport and it was super peaceful as I was the only person there.

I took this opportunity to again and go back and measure the actual AMP draw using a fresh, fully charged 2nd Generation Thunder Power 2100mAH, 10C, 3S1P, Li-POLY pack using the 6.0 Volt Zagi Speed 400 brushed motor with the stock propeller that comes with the Zagi.

To my surprise and shock:eek: it went all the way to 15.6 Amps:eek: at Wide Open Throttle, steady.

As you can see from the pictures, I was able to fly this nice looking Zagi 400 for over 17 minutes, 16 seconds and with power to spare. There was a slight breeze at about 5 MPH and dropping as every minute past.:)

The off the charger Voltage (no load) was 12.45 Volts and the 11.3 Volts represents the no load Voltage after the 17 + minute flight.:)

More and more I am really enjoying the simple and super less expensive stock brushed setup as it just needs two clicks above half throttle to make this Zagi perform all the manuvers that I like.;)

Had a blast today and one of the pictures shows the wing heading for me and the camera unfortunately focused at my Transmitter antenna!:(

guapoman2000 11-10-2005 02:08 PM

Working real hard at this Hobby!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Yours in a very hard position and working real hard at the hobby during those 17+ minute flights!:)

guapoman2000 11-10-2005 07:26 PM

Battery ejected!
 
Flew during lunch break today at the Space Center's R/C Field and attempted an outside loop and the battery ejected and ejected the canopy while it's decent to mother earth.:D

The Zagi came down gently towards high grass field and nothing happen to it!:eek: My buddy was there and laughing his head off as he witness my attempts at the sticks trying to control the Zagi when in fact it was a free flyer.

Actually, the Battery came off twice as later in the flight I attempted a tight spin turn and she certainly stalled...was too close to tera firma:D Battery slid off it's connector and ESC to Motor connections are okay. Canopy is still okay and did not sustained any rips nor cracks:)

I was able to get out a 15 minute flight from an exciting flight session!:)

Certainly going to try the Astro Flight 010, 14-turn brushless when I get home!

Carlos:)

guapoman2000 11-12-2005 03:24 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Well, took out the 6 Volt Zagi 400 Brushed motor as this measured 15.6 Amps using the tiny Gunther Propeller of (125mm X 110mm) "or" 4.92" X 4.33"

In it's place I installed a replacement issue Park Zone 480 (7.2 Volt) Brushed Motor made for a Stryker F-27 model. Also, I found at J & B Hobbies a "new" Park Zone press-on 5 X 3 propeller and the package for this 5 X 3 propeller indicates use on Stryker using 3-series Li-POLYs. Okay, this is my new power setup for my Zagi!

Measured Amp draw was exactly 12.06 Amps @ Wide Open Throttle Steady! The Thrust is very impressive and can't wait to hand launch it in the morning at the ORCA Club Field! http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/im...es/biggrin.gif

I carefully studied the option to install the Astro Flight 010, 14-turn and noticed it is a tiny motor just a little over 2 oz. "and" I would have to cut tape to remove the plastic flight deck tray to reach the receiver. So....I am leaving it brushed setup for now.:)

Old Power System Setup:

The Zagi 400 weighed in at: 2 5/8 oz.
The Zagi prop adapter and Gunther Prop.: 1/4 oz.
---------------------------------------------------
Total Weight (Old Zagi 400): 2.875 oz.


New Power Setup:
Park Zone 480 weighed in at: 3 3/4 oz.
Park Zone 5 X 3 Propeller: 1/8 oz. (Part #: PKZ1004)
---------------------------------------------------
Total Weight (Park Zone 480): 3.875 oz.

Exactly 1 oz. heavier at the AFT.:)

guapoman2000 11-12-2005 07:44 AM

Final Weight of Zagi 480
 
2 Attachment(s)
Okay, I measured the weight of my Zagi and it tipped the digital scale at exactly 1lbs. - 9 oz. "or" 25 oz. "or' 1.56 lbs.

That's an increase from 23 7/8oz. (23.875 oz.)

25 - 23.875 = 1.125 oz.

Therefore an increase of ( 1 - 1/8 oz.) http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/im...lies/smile.gif using the larger and higher Amp capacity 480 brushed motor from Park Zone! http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/im...ies/tongue.gif

guapoman2000 11-12-2005 10:51 PM

Zagi with Park Zone 480 Brushed Motor!
 
3 Attachment(s)
Well, I must admitt to you all that I am pleasantly surprised what a 480 (long can 400) can do! It transformed my Zagi into a better performing model and one that I have much more confidence in making dare devil stunts more than when it had the 6.0 Volt Zagi 400 brushed motor. Of course this is using the 2nd generation Thunder Power 2100mAH, 10C, 3S1P, Li-POLYs.

I can see why the Park Zone "Stock" Stryker F-27 flys very well with the 480 brushed as my Zagi 48 inch wing span really performed much better and with much better climb rate. The new Park Zone 5 X 3 propeller it allowed for a very long flight...I brought her in before those Li-POLY had a chance to go down below 11.3 Volts no-load and the flights averaged 15 minutes with super fast passes, loops, rolls, etc.. etc... "and" with very windy conditions of 8 MPH!:eek:

Can't understand why so many go to the expense of brushless on these fine flying models?:confused: My Combat Wing with the Mega surely performed good but, it was just speed that was the upper hand and nothing else.

Going back to the Zagi....the Park Zone 480 brushed motor had enough guts to push my Zagi with 10 foot party streamers along!

Carlos;)

guapoman2000 11-14-2005 10:01 PM

Monday's Flight Report!
 
During Lunch break, took the Zagi 480 to the Space Center's R/C Flying field and this time I used the "new" Thunder Power PRO-LITE 2100mAH, 15C, 3S1P, Li-POLY pack and WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

The Zagi with the 480 Brushed setup was much faster at top end and I did not pass 3/4 throttle...she came by at a very rapid speed and seem like I maybe surpassing it's designed top speed. This Zagi has a rather thick airfoil at the leading edge to be trying to break speed records.:D

Anyway, I allowed my buddy to fly it for a few and he enjoyed it very much. He told me that he will be installing the Park Zone 5 X 3 propeller and the PRO-LITES on his Stryker F-27 (STOCK) and see what happens:D

When I get home and after recharging the PRO-LITE pack, I will measure the AMP draw and perhaps the Prop RPMs as I suspect much more Prop RPMs using the PRO-LITES!!!:)

Don Sims 11-14-2005 11:09 PM

Great thread Carlos, it's good to see an oldie but goodie plane flying again.

guapoman2000 11-15-2005 05:05 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Don,

Thanks for those words of encouragement.....I Love to tinker as you may have noticed:D
=-------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------
Again, my power setup:
Park Zone 480 Brushed motor with flux ring
Park Zone 5 X 3 Press-on Propeller
Aveox A15 (15 Amp Brushed ESC)
(2) Hitec HS-81 Servos
Hitec 555 Dual Conversion Receiver
Thunder Power PRO-LITE 2100mAH, 15C, 3S1P, Li-POLY
-----------------------------------------------------------
Okay, here's the results:

No-Load (Off-The-Charger) Battery Voltage: 12.54 VOLTS

1/2 Throttle:
12.27 Volts Under Load
2.79 Amps
34 Watts

3/4 Throttle:
11.75 Volts Under Load
8.62 Amps
102 Watts

Wide Open Throtttle:
11.08 Volts Under Load
16.85 Amps
186 Watts

The Wide Open Throttle measured Amps using the 2nd Generation Thunder Power 2100mAH, 10C, 3S1P, Li-POLYs was 12.06 Amps therefore, using the "newer" PRO-LITE Thunder Power 2100mAH, 15C, 3S1P, Li-POLYs made it possible for the Park Zone 480 Brushed motor to spool up an additional :

16.85 - 12.06 = 4.79 Amps:eek:

The PRO-LITE TP 2100's is an example of improved Li-POLY techology as these cells carry a more dense energy per area such that it's UNDER LOAD VOLTAGE does not drop like the older type of cells that we all are familiar with....the difference is very impressive.

I was not able to measure the Prop RPMs as I did not have a third hand :D

Carlos:)


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