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-   -   Finished my GWS ME-262.... (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41765)

jismail 12-14-2008 08:04 PM

Finished my GWS ME-262....
 
WW2 bird with fairly conventional WWS fighter lines and EDF fans to boot... what's not to luv?!

Build was very easy and with the newer GWS kits, I didn't have any issues with the fans or spindles like in the older kits.

I also utilized the nacell covers and sturdy nose cone I got from one of the guys on the RCGroups board... really nice add on...

I am a bit concerned with air flow after my 2200 20C battery was already warm after bench testing the motors, so I put a hole in the botton of the nose cone and glued a tube into it directing air right to the batter and ESC area.

All in all, nice kit and sounds way cool when I run up the motors... I got the whole thing as a bundle from the GWS website and it came complete minus battery and RX for $199 and it included dual 30amp ESC, 4 servos, 2 fan units and 2 motors. (It came with the higher KV blue motors not the green) and all y-harnesses and extension wires.

I ran it up last night and it really seems to have great thrust....

Check it out! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3408.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3406.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3407.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3412.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3413.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3405.jpg

max2112 12-14-2008 08:21 PM

Ooohh ... Aaahh
 
You have a FANTASTIC looking warbird, jismail! "Job Well Done!" on your paint scheme and realist looking cammo. She looks great and I can't wait to hear how the maiden flight goes.


Originally Posted by jismail (Post 523600)
...I am a bit concerned with air flow after my 2200 20C battery was already warm after bench testing the motors, so I put a hole in the botton of the nose cone and glued a tube into it directing air right to the batter and ESC area.

Your inlet tube for the cooling air looks good, too. How did you setup your exit hole for the air? I've always been taught that for any incoming airflow (for cooling anyways) you should have twice the outlet.

Again, ConGrats on a great looking foamie!:tc:

jismail 12-14-2008 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by max2112 (Post 523606)
You have a FANTASTIC looking warbird, jismail! "Job Well Done!" on your paint scheme and realist looking cammo. She looks great and I can't wait to hear how the maiden flight goes.



Your inlet tube for the cooling air looks good, too. How did you setup your exit hole for the air? I've always been taught that for any incoming airflow (for cooling anyways) you should have twice the outlet.

Again, ConGrats on a great looking foamie!:tc:


Thanks for the kind words. I used sponges to make the camo with a base of medium green, and highlights of olive drab and dark green. The bottom is gull grey.

The airflow exit is already made in the tail and by design is supposed to be fed by the 4 gun ports in the nose but I didn't see enough airflow with just them (plus I further reduced the amount of air by putting in gun barrels) so that is whey I put in a 1/4 inch tube in the bottom of the nose cone.

Bill G 12-14-2008 08:48 PM

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The nose venting is minimal, although any air exchange is much better than none. More dosen't hurt though.
These kits are a deal. I recently finished one with Microfans and 6000kv motors, so I have the fans left over. That said, I ordered the $40 slope kit from Tower 2 days ago. Should have ordered 2. I have another that is repairable, after having the BEC overheat. I can't even say lesson learned, as I knew not to put the ESCs in the fuse. My current has them in the fans.

As for the plane, it flys as good as any. I should have no nervousness about flying my current one, with onboard BEC after the last incident, but still do. Really need to put up the current one below:

jismail 12-14-2008 08:57 PM


Originally Posted by Bill G (Post 523616)
The nose venting is minimal, although any air exchange is much better than none. More dosen't hurt though.
These kits are a deal. I recently finished one with Microfans and 6000kv motors, so I have the fans left over. That said, I ordered the $40 slope kit from Tower 2 days ago. Should have ordered 2. I have another that is repairable, after having the BEC overheat. I can't even say lesson learned, as I knew not to put the ESCs in the fuse. My current has them in the fans.

As for the plane, it flys as good as any. I should have no nervousness about flying my current one, with onboard BEC after the last incident, but still do. Really need to put up the current one below:

I too have the ESCs in the fuselage. Is that really going to be a problem? In addtion I am not running a seperate BEC. Do you think the stock motors and servos draws enough current to need a seperate BEC with this setup? (4 servos and 2 motors)

USMC_VTOL_Mech 12-15-2008 03:23 AM

4 Attachment(s)
the 262!
one of my favorites!
I think I am on my ninth one since GWS released it

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk2qmPpv6z4[/media]

Bill G 12-21-2008 07:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by jismail (Post 523622)
I too have the ESCs in the fuselage. Is that really going to be a problem? In addtion I am not running a seperate BEC. Do you think the stock motors and servos draws enough current to need a seperate BEC with this setup? (4 servos and 2 motors)

I really wasn't overdrawing mine. They just slowly heated up to the point that the shrink wrap peeled off. Shut down right on my landing approach after 4 min flying. The ESCs still work, as I believe the BEC (use only 1 of 2) got too hot and shutdown. I think the moral of the story is that no matter how large of an ESC you use, it will still overheat without some ventilation. My new one has the ESCs in the fans, but if I were to put them in the fuse again, I'd cut a hole in the wing and put an air scoop on it. Not the prettiest, but then again I'd still have my first 262 also.

Vtol, you are on your 9th?:eek: You should have enough parts left over to build some really cool scratcbuilds.:D Gotta get you to check out the Luft'46 site.

BTW, I just got another NPS kit the other day. Get 'em while they're still 40 bucks. Had the fans already, since my current one has Microfans and resized nacelles.

jismail 12-29-2008 05:29 PM

very unsucessful maiden....
 
My friend and I each built a 262 and we headed out to the field last weekend for the long anticipated maidens......

well, it didnt go as planned.

He went first and using a medium length runway, he barely cleared the wheels when it veered to the left and cartwheeled breaking his wing. It was a clean break and easily repaired on the spot.

Then it was my turn. After watching my friends takeoff, I figured it needed more speed for takeoff so I used the maximum length of the runway. I kept it on the runway as long as possible then gentlly lifted off. It flew straight and level for about 50 yards, but as I had to gain altitude and make a turn to miss the backstop at the end of the field, I was forced to make a turn.

As soon as I did, the plane seemed to stall out, did a fade to the right, and fell back to earth, breaking off my right wing, tail, and right nacell.

I was able to fix the damage, although it pretty much smashed the wing and it didnt go back together nicley because it wasnt a clean break, but the rest was okay.

So, what is the trick to this bird? It seems way to heavy for the amount of thrust the 2 stock motors are producing. I am running a 25c 3s 2200Mah lipo and based on the takeoff, I think I am balanced out well.

Is this too heavy of a bird to expect to get a decent flight out of? :(

USMC_VTOL_Mech 12-29-2008 06:55 PM

Bill
Yeah don't think I missed that pic of your mini 262! My attic looks like the Nazi airfields did after the allies came thru and busted up everything!
On another note I just picked up the HET 262 for a steal!
Jismail
As for flying the 262 and almost any edf they need a long gentle climbout to gain momentum. If you ry and turn her too early the results could be disaserous as you found out! Give her another go and I personally would shoot for a bit larger on the batery size. Once you get her figured out the results are a spectacular looking and well flying bird!

Kirsty_Carnage 12-29-2008 07:21 PM

I have noticed with all these EDF jets that the wheels are down! Don't they have retracts? I hate seeing jets flying dirty, kills it for me.
Jismail, nice paint job, very nice indeed.

Kirsty xx

Bub Steve 12-29-2008 07:50 PM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Kirsty_Carnage (Post 533133)
I have noticed with all these EDF jets that the wheels are down! Don't they have retracts? I hate seeing jets flying dirty, kills it for me.
Jismail, nice paint job, very nice indeed.

Kirsty xx

Kirsty::It's a dirty look but I don't have the $$$ or time to notice:Q , I wish some STRONG ones would come out that don't cost more than the plane did,HaHaaa! Bub Steve, PS your photo site's Great! you got a good eye for it!

USMC_VTOL_Mech 12-29-2008 07:50 PM

Kirsty
There are retracts available in this size but they tend to be pricey for air ones. As for mechanical ones extra wieght and durability issues are the problem. My 5th (I think) one had retracts and they were always a pain to mess with
I picked up a set of HET air retracts for my HET 262 but I think it is gonna bungee launched instead.

Kirsty_Carnage 12-30-2008 05:29 AM

Thanks guys, I see hobbycity have some cheap air retracts, will any of thiers do the job!

Kirsty xx

Bill G 12-30-2008 05:45 AM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Kirsty_Carnage (Post 533133)
I have noticed with all these EDF jets that the wheels are down! Don't they have retracts? I hate seeing jets flying dirty, kills it for me.
Jismail, nice paint job, very nice indeed.

Kirsty xx

The GWS 262 nose really isn't factory designed to accept retracts, but could easily be bashed in. GWS now has a steerable nose retract, about the same strength level as the "blue" main retracts they've had out for a while. They are heavier than the tiny GWS micro retracts, but not very abuse worthy. For mech, I'd probably use something like the smallest Robart nose retract, and a Great Planes .10 retracts for the mains.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXES10&P=M
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUY31
I'd probably want to hear some good reports before I went to air retracts from HC. The retracts do make the jet much less of a floater with the added weight, however. To avoid the dirty look I'd probably just build light, avoid all gear, and hand launch.

In today's ARF only world, you won't see too many GWS 262s with retracts, since that actually involves work.:D I installed retracts in my GWS A4, and made quite a job out of it, to use a single micro retract servo. This is really the way to go, if you're trying to avoid tank building. Working out the linkage takes a bit of thought.

tommytorino 12-30-2008 07:35 AM

..... hold the phone!

I thought the GWS 262 was an AWFUL flyer.... nearly impossible to hand launch and just a pitch chasing bucking bronco in the air....???

Someone straighten me out!

Tommy D

USMC_VTOL_Mech 12-30-2008 06:10 PM

Bill
That's what I used in my 262 with retracts...the Robart's . Those now reside in my A-4. I would post a vid here but this is a 262 thread,

Tommy
Sounds like your CG was off. Mine flies perfect and I even fly it with a 3400 Mah 4 cell battery. That's what was in it in that vid above
I set my CG point right where the manual states it should be and have yet to havea problem with one

Bill G 12-30-2008 07:37 PM


Originally Posted by tommytorino (Post 533713)
..... hold the phone!

I thought the GWS 262 was an AWFUL flyer.... nearly impossible to hand launch and just a pitch chasing bucking bronco in the air....???

Someone straighten me out!

Tommy D

It's not easy to launch. My first (killed by BEC brownout) was heavy though. Took a few tosses to get going, and had damaged the thin plastic nose in the process. May have not been so bad if it was 8oz lighter, like most non-covered builds.

The plane was as easy to fly as any good docile trainer. Probably about the most relaxing EDF flight I've ever had. As you know Tommy, it's a shame so many morons give planes false bad reports. The CG needs to be further forward than these "bad reporters" have flown with. I've gone back and forth with those folks before, on how swept wings on models do not move the CG back as far as calculated. Not worth argueing anymore. They can crash, and I'll fly.

I didn't notice any horrible speed related pitch problems, but GWS probably could have even done better, if they had added a degree or so of downthrust to the nacelles. With none, it probably needs a bit more forward CG than otherwise necessary.

tommytorino 12-30-2008 09:14 PM

I have never owned one, or even held one in my hands. When it first came out I was "hot" for it. Who would not want a 262 EDF right?

When I saw the size of the nacelles I got sick, but hey, that could be fixed if it was a good flyer.

The as the "early birds" got their kits the first few crashed. Lots of talk about extremely sensitive elevators <rearward C of G?> and pitching up under throttle.

Next thing you know their was talk about mis made EDF plugs, adapters or whatever, so I closed the book on this one.

No one still makes an inexpensive foam job, so I wonder if it's worth the 40 or so bucks to buy one and "have at it". I do like what looks like modded nacelles in the OP.

So is their a decent build thread to brief? If nothing else I would like to see how to mod those intakes.

Tommy D

USMC_VTOL_Mech 12-30-2008 10:08 PM

Bill
You know what? Now that I think about it you might be right. I had always mixed in about 10% down elevator with the throttle to compensate for the extreme lift when accelerating. I never even thought to move the CG forward. It didn't seem to have any other tailheavy tendencies except ballooning under power.
I have built to many of these GWS 262 that now I just automaticly mix the down in without thinking about it
BTW Bill do you have the HET 262? I need to find someone who does and pick their brain for some info

USMC_VTOL_Mech 12-30-2008 10:22 PM

Tommy
actually if you can get ahold of the updated fans and the 3 MM adapters they are a very nice fan unit for the money. I was running jetscreamers and 4 cell with mine and no issues. There was a little trick I learned though after about ten sets of fans. I kept blowing fans up while static testing. Finally I said [email protected] it and just took off and flew it. Flew great and really quick. Didn't have a fan problem at all once airborn. Seems static testing is a tad to much for the fans on 4 cell screamer power.....but the vid shows she flies great!
(I do change the fans about every 10 flights or so. But hey...they are like 2 bucks....cheap insurance!)

dogsheep 12-31-2008 01:10 AM

I just got one 2 days ago, with brushless motors, and they are trash-one made 17 amps and the other 27. I asked GWS US to charge me for a replacement motor and cross-ship, with credit when the defective one was received. The comment was, "No," and "What's the hurry."

First and last GWS for me.

dogsheep 12-31-2008 01:14 AM


Originally Posted by USMC_VTOL_Mech (Post 533935)
Tommy
actually if you can get ahold of the updated fans and the 3 MM adapters they are a very nice fan unit for the money. I was running jetscreamers and 4 cell with mine and no issues. There was a little trick I learned though after about ten sets of fans. I kept blowing fans up while static testing. Finally I said [email protected] it and just took off and flew it. Flew great and really quick. Didn't have a fan problem at all once airborn. Seems static testing is a tad to much for the fans on 4 cell screamer power.....but the vid shows she flies great!
(I do change the fans about every 10 flights or so. But hey...they are like 2 bucks....cheap insurance!)

Where are you buying the fans?

I can't find any of the "new" style.

Thanks

Bill G 12-31-2008 01:22 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Tommy The nacelle mods do make them look much better. My pic posted earlier has the nacelles lengthened and norrowed at the opening for 6000kv Microfans. Actually just lengthening the stock nacelles makes them look much better, and helps with the added noseweight needed in addition to a 3s-2100 size lipo. They really aren't that oversized, but the portion in front of the wing is too short, thus making them look so disproportioned.

Vtol, don't have the Het. Looks nice, but too much loot, with these nice foam ones out there.

Dogsheep, I had good success with the GWS inrunners until burning one out. Honestly, it finally burned out in an overpropped setup, in never in many EDF flights, but what got me is when I took it apart:
I noticed that they had numerous nicks in the windings, which was the weak spot that blew on my GWS motor. At the factory, I assume they used some type of solid bar inserted in the case after installing the winding set, and just slammed it with a hammer to pack the windings in tight enough to install the endbell.:D Now that's quality manufacturing. I won't buy anymore after seeing that.

Try Epyaya, for one, to get the new style fan/adapters. There are others if I think about it. Maybe BP?

GWS makes good planes, servos, and micro receivers. The receivers have kinda become obslete, as there are DSPs out for little more now, but they are still a decent low cost park rec. Everything else they have made should NEVER be bought. It's a shame, as it just gave them a bad rep. How they think they can increase the prices on this junk is beyond me. Again, the cheap stuff was ok for low dollar when it first came out, but is now obsolete, as you can take your chances with equal quality cheap stuff at HobbyCity for 1/2 the cost or less.
Just buy their foam planes, as I do. NPS.

Tommy another thing I forgot to mention about the nacelles is that the fans can be installed directly into the front. Looks more scale, more serviceable, and adds needed forward weight without lead. My Microfan mods are shown below, but there is a thread titled something like Microfan 262 in the GWS fourm at RCGoofs.
EDF64 fans can also be installed directly into the front of the nacelle. If you build out the lip of the nacelle even a mere 1/2" and then install the stock 64mm fans in front, they look much better. This is my first build with the 64mm fans:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618958

tommytorino 12-31-2008 06:57 AM

Ok, so what does the extra $10 buy you on the NPS version <50 vs 40$>.

Might pick one of these up, but I'm afraid it will have to be hand launched.

Tommy D

Bill G 12-31-2008 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by tommytorino (Post 534248)
Ok, so what does the extra $10 buy you on the NPS version <50 vs 40$>.

Might pick one of these up, but I'm afraid it will have to be hand launched.

Tommy D

The fans come in the NPS. The $40 version has no fans. I think it also has no landing gear wire bent, which for me is not a big issue. I usually end up bending my own, since theres are never bent to my likings.
I don't think handlauching will be a problem. Mine was just at that point of being a bit too heavy and underpowered. I had 4900kv Hacker Eseries in the EDF64 which were not well suited. Probably would have had more thrust with around 4000kv. I also had iron-on covering and and extensive reinforcements. If the plane had just a bit more thrust, and most importantly had been about 4oz lighter, it would have probably hand launched well.

tommytorino 12-31-2008 09:49 PM

Ill have to dig around and see what I have. I guess I could use a couple of these leftover 64mm fan and motors from various RTF EDF kits.

When you get the fans, do they include the impeller/plug, ect?

I just hate to spend 10$ extra on some stuff I'm not going to use.

Tommy D

dogsheep 12-31-2008 10:15 PM

Supposedly, the NSP version contains fans and the motor adapters.

Bill G 01-01-2009 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by tommytorino (Post 534569)
Ill have to dig around and see what I have. I guess I could use a couple of these leftover 64mm fan and motors from various RTF EDF kits.

When you get the fans, do they include the impeller/plug, ect?

I just hate to spend 10$ extra on some stuff I'm not going to use.

Tommy D

It's all bagged in the fan package including housing, rotor and adapter.

tommytorino 01-02-2009 01:34 AM

Would it be complete sacrilege to just build it as a twin prop pusher! :Q

Bill G 01-02-2009 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by tommytorino (Post 535258)
Would it be complete sacrilege to just build it as a twin prop pusher! :Q

I'd probably put the motors in the nacelle fronts as a tractor setup for balance reasons, but the Rittinger 262 was designed for props.
Actually you could put one single prop in front, like the initial German prototype used to test the airframe. That one was a tail dragger and has been modeled before using the GWS262.

Airhead 01-02-2009 03:08 PM

Good info Bill G... Thanks.

dogsheep 01-02-2009 04:58 PM

Anybody know how to get in touch with the GWS CEO in Taiwan? THanks

Bill G 01-02-2009 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by dogsheep (Post 535563)
Anybody know how to get in touch with the GWS CEO in Taiwan? THanks

I've read your posts at the GWS forum and that's probably the better place for company support.
Wattflyer also has a Company Dicussions Forum:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

Mr. Lin lives in Taiwan. Most GWS operations are now in China. The older products such as servos and other gear are still manufactured in Taiwan. Their servos, incidentally, are among the best.
I've never personally tried to get any warranty coverage from GWS. Not worth the hassle cosidering the fans are so cheap that I would just go ahead and order more from a place like Epyaya, that has more recent stock of fans with straight adapters. Same goes for the motors. They can be good, but have quality issues that I've discussed in detail before. With their price increases, I've just decided they are not worth it. I took it as a lesson, and now have gone back to the higher quality $50 inrunners I bought before my GWS inrunner stint.

Personally, I'm tickled to death that I have actually talked with Mr. Lin, who has taken considerable interest in my EDF30 remotored jets. Possibly even enough to get him back on the EDF30 molds, after seeing the custom work of a few of us. When I was posting some of that unique stuff over there, he would readily track down anything I put up. Think I have a personal line to him? Not a chance.

Try even having the dumbest level converstation with, say McAfee, which I could not speak one intelligible word with, in hours of trying to get support. BTW, Mr. Lin's English is actually considerably better than McAfee's average employee.

EDFs are never really PNP, if you really want success:
For initail consideration, this plane, like most low wing warbird jets also requires a considerable amount of experience to have success with. Something to consider if not there yet.

With any brand of fan other than the most expensive (the bare fan costs a lot more than your complete package) I expect to have to use microscopic pin tip applications of thin CA to adapters, to get the rotor 100% true. Next, you often shave plastic from housings and offset shim the motor to gain maybe a few thousands to attempt to center the rotor properly. Once running the fan, it's normal to spend a few hours experimenting with tape weights (often cut as a 1 or 2mm square) to remove every harmonic vibration throughout the entire RPM range. Once determined, you use a pin to apply CA to the light spots, testing and retesting, until you get a smooth fan. If you do all this right and get get in 5 good full power flights without a fan explosion (or crashing, assuming you have the necessary flight experience) then you may actually have a reliable EDF for the future.
As for factory assembled fans, that would be the last thing I want. I don't do well when counting on luck, such as that I may happen to get the "lucky" fan that went together well.

Keep in mind that the setup work described is not just pertaining to GWS, but pretty much everything other than a few multi-hundred dollar fan packages where you pay for the toleraces, factory checks, and balancing.

Better off reading forums BEFORE buying, not after:
As for issues with GWS motors or ESCs, anyone who spends time investigating on the forums will readily find they have issues, so buyer beware. When I used to post on the GWS forum, every now and then someone would come on and would be really upset with GWS. The "usuals" did not care for it at all. The reason was that while we were highly critical of GWS' bad products and mistakes, we liked their good products and planes, and were interested in discussing how to best have success with them. When folks would come on saying things like "I'll never buy again" it didn't phase us, as we knew the issues with their equipment, and were not about to stop buying airframes that we liked so much. We would simply look at it as, "Why didn't they come here first to check out all the info?"

tommytorino 01-02-2009 09:31 PM

Nice post Bill.

You know as a lover of 2 stroke prop jets, the thought of 2 props spinning don't bother me one bit.

Wonder if anyone has done it yet.

Bill G 01-02-2009 09:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by tommytorino (Post 535710)
Nice post Bill.

You know as a lover of 2 stroke prop jets, the thought of 2 props spinning don't bother me one bit.

Wonder if anyone has done it yet.

I'm sure someone has. I have a 30" scratchbuild here that I'm about ready to do that with. The plane started life with an undercamber wing years back. Looked silly but flew pretty well with rud/elev. I finally made a decent full airfoiled depron wing with ailerons, and used EDF40 nacelles I already had on the wing. As somewhat expected, not enough power to do anything but barely fly, but the plane showed that it would fly well with the new wing. I've been looking at it the past few days and thinking about tossing in motors I have in the drawer, for a prop setup. Probably would really go with 370-4100 motors ran DD with 4530 props on 3s. Wouldn't be much effort installing them either.

dogsheep 01-02-2009 09:51 PM


Originally Posted by Bill G (Post 535706)
I've read your posts at the GWS forum and that's probably the better place for company support.
Wattflyer also has a Company Dicussions Forum:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

Mr. Lin lives in Taiwan. Most GWS operations are now in China. The older products such as servos and other gear are still manufactured in Taiwan. Their servos, incidentally, are among the best.
I've never personally tried to get any warranty coverage from GWS. Not worth the hassle cosidering the fans are so cheap that I would just go ahead and order more from a place like Epyaya, that has more recent stock of fans with straight adapters. Same goes for the motors. They can be good, but have quality issues that I've discussed in detail before. With their price increases, I've just decided they are not worth it. I took it as a lesson, and now have gone back to the higher quality $50 inrunners I bought before my GWS inrunner stint.

Personally, I'm tickled to death that I have actually talked with Mr. Lin, who has taken considerable interest in my EDF30 remotored jets. Possibly even enough to get him back on the EDF30 molds, after seeing the custom work of a few of us. When I was posting some of that unique stuff over there, he would readily track down anything I put up. Think I have a personal line to him? Not a chance.

Try even having the dumbest level converstation with, say McAfee, which I could not speak one intelligible word with, in hours of trying to get support. BTW, Mr. Lin's English is actually considerably better than McAfee's average employee.

EDFs are never really PNP, if you really want success:
For initail consideration, this plane, like most low wing warbird jets also requires a considerable amount of experience to have success with. Something to consider if not there yet.

With any brand of fan other than the most expensive (the bare fan costs a lot more than your complete package) I expect to have to use microscopic pin tip applications of thin CA to adapters, to get the rotor 100% true. Next, you often shave plastic from housings and offset shim the motor to gain maybe a few thousands to attempt to center the rotor properly. Once running the fan, it's normal to spend a few hours experimenting with tape weights (often cut as a 1 or 2mm square) to remove every harmonic vibration throughout the entire RPM range. Once determined, you use a pin to apply CA to the light spots, testing and retesting, until you get a smooth fan. If you do all this right and get get in 5 good full power flights without a fan explosion (or crashing, assuming you have the necessary flight experience) then you may actually have a reliable EDF for the future.
As for factory assembled fans, that would be the last thing I want. I don't do well when counting on luck, such as that I may happen to get the "lucky" fan that went together well.

Keep in mind that the setup work described is not just pertaining to GWS, but pretty much everything other than a few multi-hundred dollar fan packages where you pay for the toleraces, factory checks, and balancing.

Better off reading forums BEFORE buying, not after:
As for issues with GWS motors or ESCs, anyone who spends time investigating on the forums will readily find they have issues, so buyer beware. When I used to post on the GWS forum, every now and then someone would come on and would be really upset with GWS. The "usuals" did not care for it at all. The reason was that while we were highly critical of GWS' bad products and mistakes, we liked their good products and planes, and were interested in discussing how to best have success with them. When folks would come on saying things like "I'll never buy again" it didn't phase us, as we knew the issues with their equipment, and were not about to stop buying airframes that we liked so much. We would simply look at it as, "Why didn't they come here first to check out all the info?"


I DID READ all the posts I could about the 262 and saw Lin's rapid responses to questions.

I did not buy GWS esc's because of my research and thus have "no problems" with them. As for the fans, it appeared that "most" worked out the problems and were able to use them.

HOWEVER, nowhere did I read ANYTHING about warranty coverage or the lack of it, though I DID read a few reports about the inrunners and gave them appropriate weight.

THIS IS MY FIRST EDF, and if GWS's warranty claims process is what I fear, I'll just move on to another manufacturer.

Your post is, indeed, informative, but, believe me, I did my research first and am a bit surprised at how, SO FAR, my warranty claims are being handled.

Time will tell, I suppose, but I would have gladly charged replacement motors and fans and cross-shipped pending my claims.

As for the fans, well, if I had been able to get them locally, I'd have bought a dozen though it would not have helped with my initial problem.

Sum: as this is my first EDF, I wanted to keep to a budget and learn, and my research, apparently, flawed, indictated that this kit, with motors, was worth the "risk," if one avoided the GWS esc's like the plague (I have two CC Phoenix 25's waiting to go!).

Thanks!

Bill G 01-03-2009 01:45 AM

Thanks Airhead, you da man



-----------------------------
Any twin is not necessarily a good starting point as a first EDF, since it's basically everything x 2. That said, I still chose the 262 and built my first EDF as a 262 scratchbuild, and learned quite a bit in the process. Did not fly off the bat, and ended up needing bl motors, as the brushed setup was not quite there. That's when I gave up on the budget idea.:D

You'll find that most GWS enthusiasts like the planes best as kits. Fortunately I did not get bad adapters, and wouldn't be thrilled either. Still, they are one of the few planes you can get in kit form. The opportunity to build a plane yourself is much better than any manufactured plane. I cringe at the idea of buying anything as a PNP setup.:eek: I bought a Starmax HE162 recently, and the lowest priced kit with shipping is $125 with nothing but foam. I just bought a GWS NPS kit for $50 shipped. All that said, compared with my recent Starmax kit, the GWS motors, adapters, and fans would be a "free bee" at the GWS powered kit price. I would simply become a buyer of GWS SL and NPS kits, and go from there, as they are a good bargain. Look at the GWS forum and you'll see why so many of us told GWS if we couldn't get the SG and NPS kits, that we would not buy the other kits.

If you buy an HL $200 PNP jet and realize that all the gear is garbage and the fans are hastily assembled, and some explode on first run up, you'll see there's no great alternatives out there, and GWS, if no better, is definitely no worse.

As for the GWS forum, if you say you'll not buy any more GWS planes, then GWS will just write you off. That's why when I posted there, I constanly praised the products I liked and supported them....
BUT I constantly pointed out how their practice of coming out with low grade ESCs, and general lack of QC on all their other more recent products (esp. motors) was terrible, not as an insult, but for their own good. Then you can keep posting there without being mauled by the resident groupies as you are being all-around fair, and GWS will continue to have to hear the message and see the posts. They are very hard headed, but some things have to sink in eventually. Now that they have raised prices to nearly that of high quality motors and ESCs, they should get the message by default, with no way of ignoring it.

dogsheep 01-03-2009 02:18 AM


Originally Posted by Bill G (Post 535852)
Thanks Airhead, you da man



-----------------------------
Any twin is not necessarily a good starting point as a first EDF, since it's basically everything x 2. That said, I still chose the 262 and built my first EDF as a 262 scratchbuild, and learned quite a bit in the process. Did not fly off the bat, and ended up needing bl motors, as the brushed setup was not quite there. That's when I gave up on the budget idea.:D

You'll find that most GWS enthusiasts like the planes best as kits. Fortunately I did not get bad adapters, and wouldn't be thrilled either. Still, they are one of the few planes you can get in kit form. The opportunity to build a plane yourself is much better than any manufactured plane. I cringe at the idea of buying anything as a PNP setup.:eek: I bought a Starmax HE162 recently, and the lowest priced kit with shipping is $125 with nothing but foam. I just bought a GWS NPS kit for $50 shipped. All that said, compared with my recent Starmax kit, the GWS motors, adapters, and fans would be a "free bee" at the GWS powered kit price. I would simply become a buyer of GWS SL and NPS kits, and go from there, as they are a good bargain. Look at the GWS forum and you'll see why so many of us told GWS if we couldn't get the SG and NPS kits, that we would not buy the other kits.

If you buy an HL $200 PNP jet and realize that all the gear is garbage and the fans are hastily assembled, and some explode on first run up, you'll see there's no great alternatives out there, and GWS, if no better, is definitely no worse.

As for the GWS forum, if you say you'll not buy any more GWS planes, then GWS will just write you off. That's why when I posted there, I constanly praised the products I liked and supported them....
BUT I constantly pointed out how their practice of coming out with low grade ESCs, and general lack of QC on all their other more recent products (esp. motors) was terrible, not as an insult, but for their own good. Then you can keep posting there without being mauled by the resident groupies as you are being all-around fair, and GWS will continue to have to hear the message and see the posts. They are very hard headed, but some things have to sink in eventually. Now that they have raised prices to nearly that of high quality motors and ESCs, they should get the message by default, with no way of ignoring it.

If it wasn't clear, I'm sorry: I implied, and now state the provisional or conditional "if." By this, I mean "if" the warranty repairs or replacements are not reasonable, fair and fast, I'm done with GWS; otherwise, I'll keep buying the products. "Time will tell."

GWS can live without me, and I without "them."

I don't buy twice (or more) from a manufacturer that does not timely and reasonably support its products. AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR, THE JURY IS OUT, and perhaps I'm not reasonable in offering to pay for replacements pending cross-shipment, but, in other industries, other manufacturers have been all too willing to accomodate me in this manner.

That's what makes the world, twirl.

I only want help from GWS or the "CEO," not a marriage.

The sheer volume of Lin's replies and posts regarding the 262 and other models reasonably led me to believe he would reply to me.

Thanks for your help.

Bill G 01-03-2009 02:43 AM

As soon as a post involves service, he seems to disappear.:D
I think he expects the GWS tech guys that are online to take it, if at all.
Realistically, it would be impossible for him to personally deal with customer service on the forum, or that's all he would ever do. It is his resposibility to appoint others to do that job, but it really can't be expected from him personally, and it's not why he posts there. As much as folks flame him, he really does like to see what people are doing with the planes. Especially the custom stuff. Like it or not, I have never seen Kevin Hisel, Don Anderson, or any other CEO/managers of larger size rc companies posts on the forums period. As I said before, I kinda get a kick out of him at least seeing and taking interest in my remotored EDF30 conversions and stuff like that. Nobody else even does that.

Edit: I see you made the infamous Down The Road status over there.
No offense, I know firsthand how easy it is to do.:D
BTW Jeff's actually a nice guy in my opinion, but he's a sponsor as well a personal friend of the staff there. Whether it's a sponsor, gold, silver, or bronze, you'll loose by default if you are not a paying member.

casor 01-07-2009 11:56 AM

Flying styro 262
 
2 Attachment(s)
Anybody know how these fly - I have seen the Hobby Lobby video but would like any independent opinions. Mine will be 30oz with all the mods incl a pair of ammo 20-40 3500 motors and hyperflow fans. Attd is a pic of my cockpit, I am painting the model now.
Rob C


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