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-   -   new to helis', blade msr question? (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59703)

bub 01-09-2011 07:00 PM

new to helis', blade msr question?
Hey fellas, I'm brand new to rc 'copters (no plane experience either) and I have a new Blade MSR bound to a DX5E TX and I'm having flight 'issues'. The msr doesn't like to turn right. It turns left fine and sometimes after holding right stick for a couple of seconds, it will spin right faster. But, usually it will only slowly spin right.

I've read on this forum somewhere that some are turning the servo end caps, but I'm not sure exactly what they mean or if that would even apply to my situation. I've had a couple of soft crashes but this not wanting to turn right has been happening right out of the box.

Also, it seems when I input side to side control, it does not like to center once controls are released. It eventually does but seems too slow, of course I have no idea what I'm doing.

Anyways, thanks for any help or advice anybody can give,

SBMcGuire 01-09-2011 07:49 PM

Do you have a local LHS that you can go to, or did you just get your stuff online? A decent LHS can solve all these issues for you faster then righting I here. but on the chance that you don't here is some info that might help.

I'm pretty new too but my experience as an aircraft mech in the navy (both fixed and rotary wing) helps a lot. Anyway, while the msr is much more stable and self corrects way more than most other choppers, it is still a Heli. In other words, once you lean it to the left and get a little momentum, it's going to go that way a ways unless you counter the momentum.

Are you flying in dual rate mode? If so, and the manual trims on the servo arms haven't been zeroed, you may get unbalanced movement. I.e. It goes one way, faster than the other.

As for spin, unless you can change the throw rate of your tx, it is going to spin faster left than right because the combo of the rotor blade and torque from the main rotor. Also, after lots of flight time, the rotor blade will start to curve in towards the motor. This will cause less rate of spin too. You'll want to replace it. The curved one can be straightened out by heating it up and bending it straight again.

Of course your problems could be coming from your tx settings too.

Hope this all helps.

bub 01-09-2011 08:05 PM

Thanks SB, I purchased online and not sure about 'copter support at the LHS, which is a short drive away in the next town. I still have the msr on the short swashplate connectors and using 'Lo' rate setting on the TX. I've centered the trims before binding the TX to the msr and let the gyro settle after connecting the battery.

It's weird because if I leave it in right turn, it seems to speed up quite a bit. And, sometimes when I turn right, it does spin in the speed I think proper. But, sometimes it doesn't want to turn right at all. And, when I push forward hard on the stick, it will fly right quite a bit.

I just checked the swashplate with the included tool and there does not appear to be any binding. I took the cowl off and it looked like the wire connector on the very front of the receiver was a bit loose (it did press on a bit when I applied pressure), but made no difference. I also noticed the screws holding the main rotors on seemed very loose so I tightened them just a bit.

When I give it left movement, aileron?, it does not like that near as well as right. It shakes and makes intermittent noise (tail rotor?) tilting left. Like I said before, it doesn't appear to 'center' as fast as I thought it should so that when you give it forward stick and let off, it continues forward quite a bit until it stops. If I give it back stick to stop it, it drops and comes back quickly in a large arc. It does hover very well initially but after a couple of movements, it is difficult to return to hover without any movement (front/back and side/side).

I'm hanging in there and reading all I can. I'm probably getting more confused the more I read. Fortunately, I don't know enough to get in trouble... yet.

Thanks again.

SBMcGuire 01-09-2011 11:18 PM

In forward flight, the faster you go the more it will bank right. It's the nature of a single blad Heli. I can explaiwhy if you like but it's described more than one place in here.

Now did you trim out the servo rod ends before triming electrically? I have found this really effects flight responses when flying in low rate mode.

They tail motor will buzz oddly all the time. That's the gyro adjusting it's rpm to maintain correct heading. Hold in your hand with blades turning and rotate it left and right. You will here it trying to keep fight against your movements.

bub 01-09-2011 11:44 PM

No, I didn't adjust servo's at all. I will look to see how to do that.
Thanks for your help.

I should have mentioned that very little yaw trim adjustment is needed to keep the nose heading. I rarely need more than 1 or 2 clicks either direction, depending on battery level.

Also, when I spin right, even slowly, it looks like it is wanting to slide backwards too, so the spin looks like a large orbiting pirouette with the tail falling towards the inside. If I try to even this movement out, it will stop yawing right altogether. Something seems wrong, just not sure what. Sometimes, the thing will yaw right properly or eventually speed up. Weird.

SBMcGuire 01-10-2011 12:56 AM

That is odd. If it's wobbling when you yaw it may be out of balance slightly to the fore or aft. Probably fore sense it's leaning back.

Now to adjust servo rod ends. Turn on and move cyclic left and right. The not the servo side and direction. Do the same with the pitch fwd and aft. Pitch should left servo, roll the right.

Now zero your tx trim. (long beep) try to hover and note what your choler does.

Now disconnect batt and remove canopy. Discovery the servo end you want to adjust from the little ball joint. Now spin the end in or out depending on the direction you need to compensate for.

Put it all back together and try again. Repeat as necessary until you have it trimmed well.

Al done. Now just adjust digital trim as needed.

You don't run into issues in full rates mode much as the servos travel at full lengths. But in dual rate mode they move about 50% total throw. If your rods aren't trimmed out, this creates a bias in the distance each will move. I.e. She'll slide one way easy and snap to the other side. Out of the box, in dual rate mode, mine was soft right, hard left and would barely fly fwd. After I manually trimmed the rods, it was golden.

Odd point: I find it easier to spot land with full rates and fly with dual rates. My guess is that dual rates loose precision at the cost of agility.

Hope this helps. I'll be around if you need. I don't know it all but i have got a lot figured out with my msr so far.

bub 01-10-2011 01:11 AM

Great explanation, I think I understand it now. I will try to get the servo's trimmed out using that method. Also, the servo on the right was rubbing on the canopy so I trimmed the canopy back.

Weird, every once in awhile like every 4 batteries or so, the trim would be all out of whack. So much, that it was very difficult even to take off. I would have to trim forward and left 10 clicks or so before I could even get it off the ground. When it wasn't doing that, I would only have to adjust yaw trim at most 3 clicks and nothing left or right, maybe 1 or 2 front.

I've checked everything out and I just don't see anything loose or binding. The manual says to put the swash tool on to check to see if the flybar is binding, it isn't, but doesn't say what to do if it is.

I did put rate to full and it definitely spins better to the right, of course it's a blur to the left.

Forgot to mention that when I have to adjust the trim a ton, it flies like it's in the bottom of a big bowl, down and then up going forward, then falls and flies backwards then up again.

Appreciate all your advice.

bub 01-10-2011 03:11 PM

I think I can see something wrong. When I turn the blades by hand, I can see the swashplate moving up and down. It looks like the screw housing below the swash is hitting the bottom of the swash and pushing it upwards so that every revolution of the screw housing causes the swash to rise and fall as it passes beneath the swash.

Also, it looks like the main 'gear' (large white toothed wheel) is very nearly off the drive gear towards the bottom. Maybe something has come loose?

Figured it out... The swash separated. I was able to use the tool to press it back together and while I was at it, switched the buckles to the longer swash 'pegs' (why not?). Also, with TX at full rate instead of dual rate, the helicopter seems much more balanced. Of course, when I get into trouble, the thing is going to buck like a bronco and hopefully I don't kill it trying to fly out of trouble.

SBMcGuire 01-11-2011 01:57 AM

Important note. The situation with the swash plate. Make sure the main drive gear is seated right. Hold the Heli and gently lift the main rotor. If it is moving up and down, you'll need to slide the white gear up the shaft to until there is little to no play.

Cannot explain the odd trim issue. May have been the main shaft issue. It will be better balanced at the full rates. like I said before you loose precession in low rate mode. If you had a dx6 or better tx, you could a dust the rate as well as the throw of your inputs. I.e. You could give it full range but slow down how fast the servos move which would make it handle easier, but not as easy to get crazy. Lol.

Switching to the longer pins will really make it nimble. In both rate modes. I haven't change mine yet, but would guess it would improve the low rate mode controls without going crazy.

I like to use full rates for spot landing and low rates for flying. At least in the house. In a gym i let her rip.

RabbitTD 01-29-2011 08:32 AM

I know on mine the main drive motor slides up in it's mount from time to time and has to be pushed backdown, needs a little silicone or such to keep it in place. You will really like this thing though. Most fun R/C model I've had yet.

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