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-   -   Tvector – Not an acrobat yet but will get there - new video (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73877)

VAALLEON 06-12-2014 12:27 AM

Tvector – Not an acrobat yet but will get there - new video
Hi. I thought some folks may find interesting. Thanks...


VAALLEON 06-12-2014 09:37 AM

Maiden indoor test flight
One of the yaw control vanes failed, ending the first recorded flight...


xmech2k 06-12-2014 02:35 PM

Amazing work. I gather from video 1 it uses some kind of stabilizing? What size edf is it? Good work getting it to fly!

VAALLEON 06-12-2014 05:41 PM


Amazing work. I gather from video 1 it uses some kind of stabilizing? What size edf is it? Good work getting it to fly!
Thank you xmech2k.

It has a 3D headlocking gyro on it. The EDF size is 64mm. This is the second version that I am testing with thrust vectoring for roll and pitch, to reduce the drag in the nozzle and weight.

VAALLEON 06-14-2014 06:26 PM

Second Indoor Test Flight
One of the yaw vanes failed the second time last night so I changed the design and replaced all of the vanes. You will see that in first 2-3 tries yaw axis didn't hold. So I increased the yaw gain and it performed ok after. In the second part rotations are controlled by me. It feels pretty stable for the time being. The best gyro setup so far...


VAALLEON 06-20-2014 05:07 AM

Mono-Phan 2 Tvector - Maiden Outdoor Test Flight
I decided to test it at the backyard to avoid an embarrassment in front of the neighbors. Some of you will know what I mean. The first 2 minutes is me trying to get a feel of how it will react outdoors. I reduced the gyro gains after this test. Then we have a longer flight at the end. It reacted pretty well. In the current design thrust to weight ratio is almost 2 to 1 which is giving plenty of extra power when you need it. It felt pretty stable compared to the previous design. I lost the yaw a little towards the end but I think I found the reason for it. The yaw servo travel range was a little too long on one side and I believe the vane was exceeding the optimum attack angle at some occasions. Now it is adjusted. Hoping to shoot it higher this weekend. Thanks for watching...

VAALLEON 06-23-2014 06:25 PM

New Frame
1 Attachment(s)
The new frame that gets rid of the X on the top and the clears the way for a better intake performance. I could measure over 10 % increase in the thrust by clearing the intake, which should result in a longer flight time...

xmech2k 06-23-2014 07:02 PM

Coming along nicely. I see you're using the curved intake ring for the fan as a forward support for the four fins. I've read that when an edf is used in open air like this, it's performance is significantly increased installing it on the front of the shroud for smoother and more air intake. Just an idea. Great work! I love to see creative and unique flying machines!

VAALLEON 06-23-2014 07:59 PM


Coming along nicely. I see you're using the curved intake ring for the fan as a forward support for the four fins. I've read that when an edf is used in open air like this, it's performance is significantly increased installing it on the front of the shroud for smoother and more air intake. Just an idea. Great work! I love to see creative and unique flying machines!
Thank you for your comments and following xmech2k. Glad to contribute!

Yes, the intake rings are improving the intake performance. On the other hand it's amazing how much power this tiny X on the top was sucking! I need to re-balance the machine and see what it will do. I was also targeting to get a batter center of gravity and center of lateral resistance balance with this design. Depending on the results I may make some minor changes...

VAALLEON 06-25-2014 05:59 PM

After balancing the new frame I achieved great indoor test results! The thrust is up and its even more stable. To have some more fun, I lowered the thrust vector nozzle and increased the servo travels. Now it's even more responsive and will fight much better against the wind. I didn't need to touch it for 2 full flights in my tiny garage. The response to inputs was excellent.

Now I need to reduce the weight for about 40g and get higher performance lighter batteries (which I already found online). This will let me pack a total of 1700mah with the same weight and improve the performance and flight time.

I already started working on a lower weight carbon fiber support for the frame.

I will post some videos as I progress...

Thanks for checking.

VAALLEON 06-28-2014 05:31 AM

New carbon frame
3 Attachment(s)
I did all of the planned improvements on the frame.

- I built the supporting structure from carbon fiber,
- Shortened the ESC lead and got rid of the ferrit ring,
- Got rid of all electric tape and any other things that I could eliminate...

I could reduce the weight by 30g, which is not bad...

Here are the pics:

VAALLEON 06-28-2014 10:52 PM

Mono-Phan 2 Tvector - New Carbon Fiber Frame Test and Balancing
In the first video, you will see that there is a very short period of power cutoff. I believe this resulted from signal interference on the ESC lead. Now the ESC lead is covered with aluminum foil and is placed as far away as possible from the esc itself and the motor. The cutoff didn't happen again after this fix.
In the second video the camera angle is a little off but there are still a lot of good parts. Now the balancing and programming is completed for outdoor flights. Very happy with the results.
Thanks for watching...

VAALLEON 06-29-2014 06:53 PM

Mono-Phan 2 Tvector - Second Outdoor Test Flight - Thrust Vector
3 Attachment(s)
The target of the test flight was to test the response to minimal input. Towards the end you will see some controlled spins to demonstrate the yaw controls.
The flight was pretty smooth except one rough emergency landing after the first long flight, after realizing that I mixed up the front of the machine and sent it too far to see properly. No damage was done. Just a little slide at the top of the frame which took a moment to fix: pull and snap into place (see pics).
I lost a battery, probably due to heat. At the current setup I am using 1 battery instead of 2. So the C rating is a little lower that it should be for the current Mah and the battery was old.
I think the machine itself and the frame proved to be reliable, strong and stable. I am done with the improvements on the 64MM category, unless it is really required. I will buy some good high performance batteries and keep on flying it. I will post other flight videos as I progress.
Thanks for checking…


VAALLEON 07-08-2014 03:27 AM

Mono-Phan 2 Tvector – Wind Tests – Thrust Vector
Even though I said that I am done with the improvements, I realized that the MonoPhan’s performance against wind was poorer than I expected. So, I went back to the drawing board and came up with a couple of designs to be tested. In the end I decided on one. This video is kind of a demonstration of the new design against the wind.

We had some unpredictable mixed winds speeding up to 12-13mph today. The test is: I start at the garage and take it out to the wind and see what it does.

The first video: Just to see everything is in balance. There was a little bit of wobbling which was corrected with the gyro setup.

The second video: I took it out of the garage and lifted it up. It caught the wind from the left and I immediately applied the reverse input. As you will see it speeded up against the wind (much faster that I anticipated). Even though you see me run after it in panic mode it wasn’t a crash. I maxed the throttle until it stabilized and it was a pretty cool landing.

The third and the forth videos: It catches the wind from right and corrects itself with appropriate input.

I didn’t attempt a longer flight because it was a little too windy for my skills.


VAALLEON 07-13-2014 08:44 PM

Mono-Phan 2 Tvector – Crash and flights after
Alright my friends… I know some of you are wondering where the crash videos are. So, I decided to publish the first Mono-Phan crash video. Obviously I crashed it many times, most of them minor. Mono-Phan can be described as what a unicycle would be compared to a four wheeler, when compared to multi-copters. The balancing process is different and more sophisticated.

Yesterday, after convincing my wife to take a flight video (which is the hardest part of this project:ws:), we went to the field for the purpose of testing the machine with different battery setups. I crashed it almost immediately. This is what happened: There was a slight breeze from left. So, the moment I released it moved right. I applied the reverse input but forgot to apply the same mild input continuously and I increased the input too much. In result it speeded up and it was too late when I realized that it is directed to the light pole:ws: As usual, I panicked and applied the max reverse input. Do you know what happens when you start reverse paddling while speeding on a unicycle? It exceeded the critical flight angle and crashed because of the speed not supporting the angle.


The Fix:
It took me almost one full day to fix it. I lost 3 servos, yaw module was damaged and some of the body. As you can guess these are (except the servos) are all hand made parts and take time to re-make and re-test. I used the 3 brand new servos that I previously purchased to replace the yaw module servos. I also made an electrical error and probably damaged one of the brand new servos on it (I think the gears jumped a couple of teeth). So, for a reason that I couldn’t detect and fix one of the axis is acting a little funny. So it didn’t quite come to a 100% of what it was, but it still flies. Below videos are taken this morning to demonstrate flight with different batteries.

Battery Tests:
After hiding the home shotgun and begging my wife on my knees, this morning she agreed to take a video. The flights with 3 different setups: 1 x 850Mah, 2 X 500Mah, 3 X 850Mah. The videos are not edited, they are as is. The module was balanced each time the batteries were changed but THE GYRO SETUP IS THE SAME. It handles different weights pretty well.

You will see that it was a little wash bowling in the 2 X 500Mah video because the weight wasn’t balanced right (It is hard to do balancing when a lioness is watching you with her claws out). It still flied pretty well… 2 X 850Mah batteries are delivering more reliable power. However, I like the extra available power with lighter batteries.

1 x 850Mah:


2 X 500Mah


2 X 850Mah


The machine likes the directional input to be supported with some throttle, just like you are riding a jetski. You know those use thrust vectoring as well.

I will try to take more flight videos with a head and land camera and hopefully focus on the larger version, soon.

I am hoping to have videos of an experienced pilot flying it one day:ws: Thanks for checking out…

VAALLEON 07-17-2014 06:24 PM

Tvector – Not an acrobat yet but will get there!


VAALLEON 07-18-2014 07:38 PM

Tvector – Not an acrobat yet but will get there - new video

Glacier Girl 07-22-2014 12:10 PM

Impressive to say the least. It takes folks like you to improve the hobby.

One tip for more thrust, install a tube between the lip and fan shroud. Your set up now is causing the fan to pull air from the sides and also through the lip causing all kinds of turbulent airflow. The lip should be free of anything that will disturb the airflow. Simple thin plastic tube will make a big difference.

Secondly, you are dealing with an inherent flaw. EDF's have to spool up to develop thrust, that lag is hurting you. Your "craft" can't respond quickly enough to the gyro stabilization demands. One of the reasons it gets away from you.

Unlike heli where you can run the motor at full speed all the time and use the blade angle to change thrust.

Hmm, an adjustable fan blade.... Be like adjusting the pitch on an airplane prop.
Wonder if such could be adapted to an EDF? And I wonder why it hasn't been tried?

Way past my capabilities.

Keep at it, great to see someone thinking outside the box!

Glacier Girl 07-22-2014 12:59 PM

Okay rethinking about this, morning coffee kicked in. Instead of adjusting the fan blades, use what works. Change the exhaust diameter. Smaller opening, more speed/less thrust, larger opening less speed/more thrust.

Micro processor would have to control it to be fast enough, but motor could be run at one set speed then.

thepiper92 07-22-2014 04:33 PM

Wonder if it would be possible to add a heli setup so to speak. Seems possible to extend the motor shaft, and install a swash. As you don't want directional control, maybe connecting the three control points of a swash together and using a single servo to control it as one. Not sure if your gyro system can do it, allowing for pitch control and such, but this setup would allow you to hover inverted, on top of having instant control that edf system wouldn't allow.

VAALLEON 07-22-2014 05:53 PM

Hi Glacier Girl. Thank you very much for the input:)

- To be honest the vector nozzle being separate is giving a sleek and cool look. It looks minimalistic and futuristic, at least to me:). Sealing the sides is something that I will test to see if it makes any difference. The reason that I didn't do it until now was that I didn't feel any significant negative effect of the design.

- Your idea regarding the variable pitch fan blades is something that I have been thinking on for a while and I do have a crazy design idea but it will have to wait for a while. You are right about the response lag to the need to throttle variations. However, it is pretty easy and fun to manage when you get used to it. I like having to give that extra throttle when giving it direction or rotation. Of course, that doesn't mean that everyone would like that!

- Your idea on adjusting the nozzle size for thrust control is very interesting. I really like that. I have a question on that though: Since the pitch angles will be fixed, you will probably adjust the throttle to lets say 70% (enough to hover) and adjust the nozzle diameter to adjust the thrust. However, that doesn't meant that you won't need the remaining 30% power. Because of that I think your idea would be very useful as a secondary thrust control system, in the sense of using the energy more efficiently and have that extra thrust when you want to shoot it in the air at 100% throttle.

Let me know what you think...

VAALLEON 07-22-2014 06:06 PM

thepiper92 thank you for the input.

I am sure that your idea of the swash would be the most accurate way of controlling it but that would pretty much make it a little helicopter with a duct around the blade.

My vision on this machine, if we carried it to real world, was a vertical 3D thrust vectored jet engine.

However, I wonder if the swash system can be applied to the thrust vectoring:) Because you are dealing with similar adverse gyroscopic forces as you are dealing on a heli. A precision mixing system could ease the load on the gyro and may produce even better results, especially on the larger machines that can handle the weight.

VAALLEON 07-25-2014 03:43 PM

Speaketoanimals thank you for the input. F35vertical, great machine!

I replaced my wings that got really old with black ones. Now it's red on blackhttp://static.rcgroups.com/forums/im...lies/smile.gif

This what I did this morning:


Glacier Girl 07-25-2014 09:02 PM

VALLEON,Just thinking that the adjustable nozzle would help with the lag problem/stabilization corrections. Would/should react quicker moving the nozzle size vs spooling up the fan speed. Back to a near heli setup.

I've got a friend who has an adjustable nozzle he built on his Twister. Smart cookie that he is, his uses servo power to contract the nozzle. And he uses the exhaust flow to expand the nozzle, no need for a secondary system to do it. The airflow blows the nozzle back to what ever position the servo allows it to go to when it opens back up.

As for the adjustable fan pitch thing, did some reading on it. Seems the stator angles have to be adjustable also to get the most out of it. There were such animals at one time for r/c. Guessing the complexity of the system at least at that time wasn't cost effective.

p.s. Watched your last video, you're doing pretty darn good as is. Better then me and my quad.

VAALLEON 07-26-2014 11:13 PM

First Vertical Spin Shootup
The first vertical spin shoot up


I don't think I would be better that you with your quad but thanks anyway:)

Hey, these are some very interesting thoughts. I had an easy build and very close to real nozzle idea in my head that I actually decided not to build at this time.

When I merge that idea with what you told, it kinda came together. A nozzle that will work in synch with the throttle. A pre-set amount of nozzle contraction per unit increase in throttle.

That could have quicken the response and increase thrust at full throttle. Which means a faster VERTICAL SHOOT UP!


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