Dumas Spad XIII - Page 4 - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight

WWI Era Discuss all your favorite WWI warbirds here!

Dumas Spad XIII

Old 09-21-2008, 08:01 PM
  #76  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default

It weighs around 11 ounces without the battery... The battery is a brand new Thunderpower 1320mah 7.4 volt battery. Advertising states that it weighs 58 grams... I don't have a wattmeter, but will get one soon given your advice.

I will DEFINATELY post pictures tonight. I promise. Just please remember it's my first balsa build in a LONG time.

Please help me. All the expectations of a maiden, sunk by a plane that lazily taxied around. It was hell. But definitely better than a crash...
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-21-2008, 08:41 PM
  #77  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default Pictures

Now will you help me make it fly???
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4174.jpg
Views:	608
Size:	109.1 KB
ID:	78749   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4175.jpg
Views:	644
Size:	95.0 KB
ID:	78750   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4172.jpg
Views:	561
Size:	110.0 KB
ID:	78751  
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-21-2008, 09:03 PM
  #78  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

Ha ha...now that the magic anti-flight gremlins have been exposed to cyberspace...all should be well

Looks very nice...I hope mine looks that good.

I have been doing some research for you. Pat suggested at the beginning of his build that he was going to use a geared 280...unfortunately he never said what gearbox/gear ratio he used. He did use the same battery and did state that he used a GWS 9x7 prop. I haven't found any info concerning suggested props for that motor/gearbox.

If memory serves me , I was using an APC 9x6 SF prop. This was on a heavier plane...my Alfa P-47...14-15 ounces. Also, I had a different motor (graupner 280) but they may actually be the same motor. It flew, but was way underpowered. I moved to a geared 300 after 2 flights...then went brushless!

Here's an idea...remove the cowl...hopefully you can access the motor's can with your high tech temp meter (finger). Run the motor up full throttle with that 9x7 for a few seconds. stop the motor and touch the can...warm is OK...Hot is not of course.

Last edited by barmonkey; 09-21-2008 at 09:19 PM.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-21-2008, 09:07 PM
  #79  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

One thing to note: Pat stated that his wanted to climb during take-off...so be prepared to use a little down elevator to keep it somewhat level until it reaches speed. Too steep a climb and you'll definately experience a stall.
The 280 is no powerhouse...but once it is up you should be able to putt around on half throttle. You will certainly need more throttle to loop of course, and you may want to use a little more juice in your turns also.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-21-2008, 09:21 PM
  #80  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

Now a question for you: What wheels did you use?

Also, If it's not too much trouble...I'd like to see your battery hatch and mount.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-21-2008, 09:58 PM
  #81  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

I have posted a question about your issue over at RCG in both the Power Systems thread and the Spad XIII thread. Hopefully someone will have an answer.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-21-2008, 10:15 PM
  #82  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default

Thanks for all of your help! I used the MPI wheels - 3 inch I believe. They're fine if you cover the modern looking spokes... I did not put a battery hatch on it, just left the area between former one and two open to the air at the bottom. Serves to cool the motor I like to think- I don't think Tritle ever gave us plans for a hatch of any kind...

I'm going to pick up some 9x7 props, and see what happens... I may take the whole thing over to my LHS and let them figure it out. What power system are you going to use?
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-21-2008, 10:20 PM
  #83  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

Dr. Kiwi suggsted that a GWS 10x6 HD prop would have more thrust and the same Amp draw.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-22-2008, 12:59 AM
  #84  
jofrost
It flew once before...
 
jofrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northwood , NH
Posts: 155
Default

J ,

Your Spad looks great . Do hang in there , better to have it right with enough power than have something bad happen .

I remember when I maidened my Dumas Waco YMF-5 it almost got dorked on takeoff due to a bum ESC that would cut out abrubtly

I would still give Pat Tritle a try . He is a great guy that is always willing to help out ( especially with one of his designs )http://www.patscustom-models.com/

-John
jofrost is offline  
Old 09-22-2008, 02:18 AM
  #85  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default

I already PM'd him on RC Groups at your recommendation... I think I'm going to try the 9X7 prop, since that is what he was flying on the prototype. If that doesn't do it, then I'm going to get another power plant.

I may have dorked up the gearbox, as this was my first one... I lubed it, and tried to ensure that everything was fitting properly, but, who knows?
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-22-2008, 03:14 AM
  #86  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default

I just pulled the cowl, took the motor out of the gearbox, fiddle around, and decided everything was in there the way it was supposed to be in the first place! I'll pop the 9x7 on there when I get to the LHS, but I may just pick up a bigger motor/gearbox when I'm there... Can't hurt to be prepared.
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-22-2008, 11:39 AM
  #87  
jofrost
It flew once before...
 
jofrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northwood , NH
Posts: 155
Default

J ,

If you are determined to use a brushed setup , maybe your LHS has one of these in stock which works well with a 9x7 http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...41&pid=T433964

Should give you enough power on a 9x7 ( somewhere between 50-70W ) I used to use these back before brushless & lipos and worked great .

-John
jofrost is offline  
Old 09-22-2008, 05:06 PM
  #88  
7car7
Member
 
7car7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WA State
Posts: 843
Default

Originally Posted by jofrost View Post
J ,

If you are determined to use a brushed setup , maybe your LHS has one of these in stock which works well with a 9x7 http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...41&pid=T433964

Should give you enough power on a 9x7 ( somewhere between 50-70W ) I used to use these back before brushless & lipos and worked great .

-John
Exactly what I was going to say. I still use a 350 in my Tigermoth. My moth is a bit heavy at 13oz ready to fly weight. The 350 with a GWS 9x7 does VERY well. Quite fast, and lipo battery (2 cell) lasts quite a while. I'll get 20 minute flights if not being too crazy.

Here's a trick I like to use before a maiden of a new power plant - hold the plane by the fuse, just in front of the tail group. Point it straight up, and give full throttle. This type of plane (Appx. Scale like flight, perhaps better, but not a 3D or a top speed screamer) should be able to tug at your hand a little bit. I like to get mine to almost pull itself straight up against the hand. In reality, NONE of my planes will hover, but they will go vertical for just a moment.

I'm guessing that your plane with it's power system will not come close to tugging at your hand.

I'm also guessing (truly a guess, I'm pretty limited in my experience) that if you had enough power, and your gear box wasn't too restriced from grease, your plane should be able to get off the ground with the current prop, but once up it may not stay up long, and will be at full throttle. I'm only basing that on my Tigermoth, in that it will fly with an 8x6, or a 9x3.5 (IIRC), but it's a pig with those, and it really likes the 9x7.

So, after this long winded speech, I'd say you need more motor, or a 3 cell, or there's something wrong with the gear box. But not a different prop.

BTW, lovely plane. You did a great job. I've GOT to get a SPAD of some sort!
7car7 is offline  
Old 09-23-2008, 12:39 AM
  #89  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default

Well - I went to my LHS in a fit of despair this afternoon. And they capitalized on it (as they usually do). I walked out with an e-flite 370 brushless, and a 25amp esc with a 9x5 prop). Now I'm worried that I'll tear the firewall out of it!

Too much? (It certainly was too much $, but I really love this model, and I don't want a stall due to underpowering it).

Last edited by tipsy mcstaller; 09-23-2008 at 12:41 AM. Reason: mentioned wrong brand name of motor
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-23-2008, 02:14 AM
  #90  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

Glad to hear you went with the brushless...although I was really curious as to if the Tower suggested set-up would have a chance of working. I don't think that the 370 is overkill...you'll have the option of going with 3S or 2S...and it'll probably do fine on the 2S.

The E-Flite motors are indeed a bit pricey but they are of outstanding quality...I have only used their Park 450 and 480 motors. The ESC's are very nice also...Although that 25 Amp version is a bit of overkill. But you will probably need the extra weight to balance anyway...and then you can use it on a larger motor in the future.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-23-2008, 03:27 AM
  #91  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default OK Enough About Me

I've stiffened up the front end of the plane a bit (since I'm not using the stick mount...) I'm looking forward to seeing how this thing flies...

Now back to you! How's the build coming?
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-23-2008, 08:00 PM
  #92  
degreen60
Flying Fish
 
degreen60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bloomfield, Indiana
Posts: 1,994
Default

I like extra power. Not for flying but to use when I get into trouble. Helps keep my planes out of trees.
degreen60 is offline  
Old 09-23-2008, 09:23 PM
  #93  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

I agree Don, need that extra bit up punch to avoid the magnetic force of the trees.

J, I still haven't made any progress...things haven't lightened up for me until today. Several 12 hour days working on side projects (Real-Estate) and the 24 hours at the fire station aren't leaving me much energy to get anything done. Plus, the extra work of doing the Ailerons...I need to make a mock-up of my single servo control, and prove that the differential will work. It's been about two weeks since I have made any progress, and that really gets my blood boiling!
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-23-2008, 11:16 PM
  #94  
jofrost
It flew once before...
 
jofrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northwood , NH
Posts: 155
Default

Originally Posted by jszeiter View Post
I've stiffened up the front end of the plane a bit (since I'm not using the stick mount...) I'm looking forward to seeing how this thing flies...

?
J,

I'm surprised your LHs didn't sell you one of these
http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...rodID=EFLM1915
Would have mounted your new Park 370 right on the stick that was in it !

You won't be dissapointed going brushless . I have 4 Eflite outrunners and they all work great . In the future if you are looking for cheaper alternatives to Eflite motors , let us know . There are many great motors out there .

-John
jofrost is offline  
Old 09-24-2008, 01:51 AM
  #95  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

OK...got er done!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	img_2140.jpg
Views:	490
Size:	79.2 KB
ID:	79020   Click image for larger version

Name:	img_2141.jpg
Views:	532
Size:	71.7 KB
ID:	79024  

Last edited by barmonkey; 09-24-2008 at 02:08 AM.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-24-2008, 01:54 AM
  #96  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

Probably won't fool anyone with that...it's actually a 1/48 Testor's Spad XIII I built several years ago. Nothing fancy...just built it, painted it and stuck decals on.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-24-2008, 03:10 AM
  #97  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default

you had me there for a moment.
tipsy mcstaller is offline  
Old 09-24-2008, 04:54 AM
  #98  
barmonkey
Member
Thread Starter
 
barmonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 688
Default

"you had me there for a moment."

And it's not even April 1

Just to prove that I have been working on the plane I have included the attached pic. No... I am not going to use a foam wing. This is my mock-up to prove to myself that the different Aileron differential set-ups work. It is a rush job, using a dull knife...so foamie fans please be kind. It took about ten minutes to put together...and about 2 1/2 hours to dig everything up to build it.

I originally wanted to build a shortened version of the actual wing out of Balsa with the servo in the center. The foam wing idea proved to be a pretty easy and quick way to do it (excluding hunting for stuff). I decided to put the servo directly in front of the Aileron, both due to ease of fabrication and the fact that the servo and Aileron don't know where each other lie in space.

In my first test, I moved the control horn forward of the hinge line....

I will next test using the "X" servo horn idea. This involves placing the "X" horn on the servo so it forms an upright "V". I am not even going to try to explain why this is supposed to work...as I may confuse others as I have been confused. It is related to the Ackerman Theory http://members.cox.net/bdfelice/Ackerman/ackerman.htm

UPDATE: I removed my original findings from the above text due to inconsistencies...
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	img_2142.jpg
Views:	344
Size:	128.9 KB
ID:	79048  

Last edited by barmonkey; 09-24-2008 at 06:38 AM.
barmonkey is offline  
Old 09-24-2008, 04:43 PM
  #99  
7car7
Member
 
7car7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WA State
Posts: 843
Default

The "V" on the single servo does work well. Very simply, one of the pushrods is traveling towards the aileron, and the other is simply moving sideways across the servo rather than past it. Then when the servo is activated the other way, it's just the oposite push rod doing the moving, while the other just sort of sits there.

I tried this on a Tigermoth (Pico). It had great differential, but I was told it didn't work due to the undercambered wings, and so much dihedral.

I'm sure it will work great on your model.
7car7 is offline  
Old 09-27-2008, 06:23 PM
  #100  
tipsy mcstaller
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Default

Maidened today! Rolled out in no time at all, ballooned then went over onto one wingtip (breaking it I might add). Tried again, made sure I added some down elevator when it was ready to leave the ground, then it flew fine. Seemed a little tail heavy... trim is a mess. Anyway, I was able to fly it nicely at low speed all over the field, and land it reasonably well (rolled for a sec before nosing over). Flies like a real slow-flyer. Not a speed demon... Would love to see what ailerons do to its flight characteristics.
tipsy mcstaller is offline  

Quick Reply: Dumas Spad XIII


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.14659 seconds with 15 queries