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Bird of Time Electric Conversion

Old 08-13-2012, 11:56 PM
  #126  
Desertdog
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Default Best bird out there bar none for the value

Again we all have to thank sundevil as he got it right in the begining. Many other builds ive seen just wasen't good enough and fell short. I just took all of my small changes from the first origional and incorparated them in to my latest second one and went out the other day, launched and i have to admit it was perfect, flew awsome, and handled even better than the first one. The motor, prop,battery, spoilers, turbulators,carbon fiber, firewall were all first class and i have been flying it non stop and life is really good. I'm thinking Dynaflight will come out with an e version soon.

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:35 AM
  #127  
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I did get to fly the bot......had some help from the guy I bought it from and glad he was there. It is much more sensitive than the Vista and can tip stall. It is majestic however and I love what it is. Put some triple rates into the Tx and will add some expo, -25 should do it. Am using a 4s 2200 mah lipo. I have no idea what motor is in it but it really pulls her up. 1/2 throtle at launch is all she needs. Using the SD10g to control her. Nice TX.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:24 PM
  #128  
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Default my good bot electric

Im using a 3300 batt

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Old 11-30-2012, 03:49 PM
  #129  
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I have bought a pulsar 3.2 electric pro and have sold my e bird to a great guy in florida bob. I will miss this bird with all my heart and can't say enough about the bot converted to e power, For the money you can't beat it. One day after i move i might build another one.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:45 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by windyhill View Post
I have bought a pulsar 3.2 electric pro and have sold my e bird to a great guy in florida bob. I will miss this bird with all my heart and can't say enough about the bot converted to e power, For the money you can't beat it. One day after i move i might build another one.
You'll love your Pulsar more. I lost my BOT to a crash and replaced it with a 3.2 m (not pro) and it's one heck of a soaring machine. Be ready for long flights and a stiff neck
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:26 PM
  #131  
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I have some medical issues and don't think I could handle long flight of looking up. I start getting hip-back-neck spasams. Unless winds are light and I can get back to my chair.
I'm really attached to my gliders and can't seem to get enough. Have several e areobatic planes I haven't even flown. E gliders seem to take up all of my time. From Fl to Oregon is a big change.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:48 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by windyhill View Post
You are older and can understand most of the guys in this thread are older and all of the mods are first class and work well. Stick with the latest info and you will love it for an arf at this price. Keep your cg at 3.75 and use the carbon fiber rods glued in the rear of the fuse(at least two rods)
Hi - Just ordered my BOT and will start the conversion next week. I have re-read the forum but couldn't find another reference to the "Carbon Fibre" rods you mention. (Old age maybe!) Are they part of the ARF kit? If not what size do you recommend and how many? Trying to gather parts ahead of the build/assembly!
Been a builder for over 60 years and have recently sold all my 1/4 scale gas stuff and going back to my first love - Sailplanes!
I might have built one of these many, many years ago. Did Cleveland have a kit with the "Wolf" type wing planform? Thanks
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:50 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by SuperCub Man View Post
Hi - Just ordered my BOT and will start the conversion next week. I have re-read the forum but couldn't find another reference to the "Carbon Fibre" rods you mention. (Old age maybe!) Are they part of the ARF kit? If not what size do you recommend and how many? Trying to gather parts ahead of the build/assembly!
Been a builder for over 60 years and have recently sold all my 1/4 scale gas stuff and going back to my first love - Sailplanes!
I might have built one of these many, many years ago. Did Cleveland have a kit with the "Wolf" type wing planform? Thanks

Tower hobbies has them
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:15 AM
  #134  
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i haven't any info to share on carbon fiber rods for the arf,but if your building the balsa kit then you might want to incorporate the carbon strips in the wing for added strength on the winch method of launching the bot. from what i read the winch pull hard and folds the wings...or it was the bungee....which ever it dosn't apply to my bot.

i was told the bot kits build of the wings wouldn't need the carbon strips along the spar as i will be using ep for hand launching. i cant imagine adding anything to the arf wing and theyer 3 pice compared to the 2 piece wing i built.

the thread of my build includes the carbon fiber rod just cause i like thinking the wing is stronger if i get any g forces in a pull up from dive...lol.... at the field i fly the skimmer 600 we get air traffic rarely from full size civilian planes so I've lost altitude very quick when i hear the engine of a plane over head.


straight foward dynaflite "bird of time"e-powered, winter 2012 build ( 1 2 3 4 )
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:25 PM
  #135  
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Well I finally finished my beautiful Bird of Time! But I am disappointed in the final result. She weighs a ton! A very "porky" bird indeed! It's my fault, just an error caused my inexperience with sailplanes. I started my building career in this hobby with sailplanes back in the day when ARF was a noise made by a dog! For the past 50 years I've been a gas man. Now in my "autumn years" I've gone back to my first love because they are much easier for me to carry and assemble.
The first pix shows her assembled in the shop with HK spoilers mounted. These are listed at 40g each but with mounting wood etc. come in a little heavier at about 70g, but the ease of installation is worth it and they move proportionally.
Pix 2 & 3 show I shaped the nose more round from the original oval.
Pix 4 & 5 shows the ply firewall opened for ventilation and the headless spinner I'm using.
In order to eliminate the chin formed when keeping with the oval shape of the fuse as supplied, I removed the lead shot and sanded the fuse smooth inside. I cut a 2" circle??? from 1/8" x 5 ply plywood. (No idea why so big - just seemed a better fit at the time!) The center hole left by the circle cutter was 1/4" which was a perfect fit for the large carriage bolt shown in Pix 6. I bolted it into the firewall and while bending and forming the fuse with one hand, I gripped the bolt and pulled the ply circle from the inside towards the front of the fuse until it was as far forward as I could get it and the fuse was bent round. Then eyeballing the bolt sticking way out front I adjusted the firewall for no left or right thrust and a slight bit of down. Then I ran epoxy around the firewall edge inside and out. It will never come loose!
My error was in making the firewall too big. I should have kept it as small as possible and ordered the size of the spinner to suit, say about 35mm. The result is that in order to balance I now have to use 12oz. of lead in the nose and the total weight of the Bird is now 82.8oz or 2350g!!! As shown in Pix 7 I have cut off too much of the fuse length which means more ballast to get a balance.
I guess my question is - Is she too heavy to fly?? Should I scrap the fuse and buy a replacement? ($75.00) I'm trying to decide whether it would be worth while adding a FG nose extension so I can get the weight of motor and ballast further forward. I can't move the weight further forward now as it interferes with the motor (Firepower 10 Sport). If I try to test fly it and she crashes, then I may lose the wings as well! Has anyone flown a bird of this weight? I saw one listed at 2200g, but was it a brick?
Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Please don't flame - I'm just an old man!!! Yes those are Kraft KPS33's. They were in a Hobie Hawk I got in the early 80's and never could fly so they are brand new! Work perfectly!!
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:29 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by SuperCub Man View Post
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]
I guess my question is - Is she too heavy to fly?? Should I scrap the fuse and buy a replacement? ($75.00) I'm trying to decide whether it would be worth while adding a FG nose extension so I can get the weight of motor and ballast further forward. I can't move the weight further forward now as it interferes with the motor (Firepower 10 Sport). If I try to test fly it and she crashes, then I may lose the wings as well! Has anyone flown a bird of this weight? I saw one listed at 2200g, but was it a brick?
Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Please don't flame - I'm just an old man!!! Yes those are Kraft KPS33's. They were in a Hobie Hawk I got in the early 80's and never could fly so they are brand new! Work perfectly!!
Back in the mid 1980's I had a pair of Craftaire Viking sailplanes, each with 10 foot wingspans. One was converted to electric launch with a heavy 18 cell Nicad battery pack, and an Astroflight 40 geared brush type motor. Flying these two models on consecutive flights, IMHO the heavier electric version flew much better and longer than the standard sailplane. So much so, that the standard sailplane was also converted to electric launch.

Both models had a 10 foot wingspan, around 1200 square inches or so, and after electrifying them they weighed in at about 120 ounces.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:55 PM
  #137  
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kyleservicetech - Thanks for that. It would then appear that she may yet fly! In retrospect, watching some of the full scale sailplanes, they fill their wings with water to get more speed and penetration. I also remember reading somewhere that some RC contest type fliers make up boxes of different weights for different flying conditions - more weight! I guess I'll try to fit a heavier battery in to reduce the ballast bulk and wait for the weather to clear for a maiden flight. Maybe things aren't as bad as I first thought!! Thanks - you've given me hope!
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:51 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by SuperCub Man View Post
kyleservicetech - Thanks for that. It would then appear that she may yet fly! In retrospect, watching some of the full scale sailplanes, they fill their wings with water to get more speed and penetration. I also remember reading somewhere that some RC contest type fliers make up boxes of different weights for different flying conditions - more weight! I guess I'll try to fit a heavier battery in to reduce the ballast bulk and wait for the weather to clear for a maiden flight. Maybe things aren't as bad as I first thought!! Thanks - you've given me hope!
Yup, if it will fit, bigger batteries are always much better than lead shot!
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:39 AM
  #139  
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Don't have a bigger battery that will fit but have ordered one! Also found a bag of "Spent Lead Shot" I got years ago and used for building and found that it was heavier than the steel shot supplied and thus took much less space. With a stick of wood in front of the motor to protect it I was able to put all the shot into a "baggie" (doubled) and molded it to fit in front of the battery. Easily removed for adjustment when the new battery arrives. A little math shows the wing loading at just over 11.3 oz/ft. Certainly not a slope soaring weight but not bad for a mid range and there are no slopes around here anyway. Looking forward to the maiden!! Spring is just around the corner!!
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:58 PM
  #140  
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I wouldnt be that hard to cut off the nose and do an extension of the fuse. Saving 12 oz is a lot!

The other thing is, the recommended CG on the BOT is well forward of its ideal location. So what ever you do, leave room to move it back (as much as an inch) after the maiden.

Good luck!
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:38 PM
  #141  
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your gonna love shed'in the weight I had a mess of lead poundage in my 30 odd year old Gentle lady, I put the new set-up (I just finished today) way out front with a new cowl, no more lead, she's gonna be great again, Love your Plane bubsteve PS I flattened the wings out and added aileron's and flap's-spoilers
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:21 AM
  #142  
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I think the BOT has such a nice profile that I would only rebuild the nose if I could do it so as not to spoil its sleek appearance. I'd probably carve a blue foam nose and then wrap it with cloth and afterwards remove the foam with thinners. The trick would be to retain the smooth transition of the fuse up through the elongated nose. But I'm not going to worry about that until she maidens. If she's a brick then I'll start laying out plans for next fall building season. It wouldn't be a fast project for me. Thanks for the advise!!
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:19 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by SuperCub Man View Post
...I bolted it into the firewall and while bending and forming the fuse with one hand, I gripped the bolt and pulled the ply circle from the inside towards the front of the fuse until it was as far forward as I could get it and the fuse was bent round...
What a great and simple idea! The oval shape is the one thing that was concerning me with this conversion, and after reading and reading all over on how people have done it, you're the only one that I've seen come up with that. Thanks!!!
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:36 PM
  #144  
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eosglider - Just start off with as small a circle as you can so cut the nose as far for'w'd as possible and then start with a 1 1/2" or so circle. If it's too small then try again until you get a good fit with as much nose salvaged as possile. Good luck!!
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:43 PM
  #145  
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That BOT is not a led sled at that weight. They use weights to ballast it for windy weather flying and to make it fly better. They go up to around 110oz or so with those weights and it still flies great. If you have the CG where they tell you to put it, then you are going to be nose heavy, but that is OK for the first flight. After you get it trimmed and flying good, start moving the CG aft and when you finally hit that sweet spot, you will have a fantastic flying glider. The plans always give you a forward CG so it will fly good for anyone. Not everyone can fly an aft CG. It just depends on how you feel about them and what you like. After flying it for awhile, you may even go back farther. I like to go back until I have a slow pullout from the dive test and I am happy there. I don't like it when it is neutral and never go back of that spot. I like mine very close, but still a little positive to it. That's just me. Some people like it farther back then mine is. It's up to you to stop when you feel like it. Try it and I think you will like it.

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Old 03-15-2013, 12:21 AM
  #146  
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The addendum to the Manual suggests a CG of between 3 3/4" to 4 1/8". I know that isn't gospel but a good starting point, if what you say is true. I am set up at about 4" as near as I can tell and I am comfortable with that as normally I hate using the nose heavy suggested settings when I build a model. I will try the "dive test" early in the test flight and go from there. Over the years, with the many gas powered aircraft I've built, weight has always been one of the main concerns. But I guess you look at weight differently in a sailplane where it can be a tool rather than a dreaded add-on as with a powered scale aircraft. Thanks for the encouagement I am really looking forward to getting this first set of flights under my belt!!
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:17 AM
  #147  
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I like mine a just a tad tailheavy so I can turn flat in low-lift, bubsteve
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:53 PM
  #148  
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To tell you the truth, I never measure my CG with a ruler. I just balance in on my fingers and get it close to the spar on the first flight and when I have it flying pretty good, I start moving it back a little at a time. I hear tell that people say dive at a 45 degree angle during the dive test. Well, I guess that is OK if you want to take a chance of ripping your wings off, but I never go that far. You only need to increase your airspeed, not break the sound barrier. I dive at about a 20 degree angle and just long enough to increase my airspeed. That's all you really need. Let the sticks go and see what it does. When it pulls out nice and slow, I have my mark and set it there. Every time you take some weight out, take it up to about 200 feet and then trim it for a nice level glide just like you would fly it. Then take it up a little higher and do the dive test. I go to maybe 400 feet and dive it from there. I do that for every flight when I am setting my CG. Trim at 200 and dive at 400. That keeps it close enough so you can see it good and gives you enough altitude to not have to worry about being to low and have bad things happen.

Some people like to fly inverted and I guess that is OK for them, but I don't know where my trim needs to be inverted to get it where I need it, so I just do the dive test. I like it and it works great for me and I get great results. When I am diving, I let it go to about twice normal speed and let it go. That is fast enough to tell me what I want and it doesn't tear the wings off. I saw one guy do just that after I told him not to dive so fast. The next time up he put it in an ever steeper dive I guess just to show me. Well he showed me all right. Ripped them wings clean off. He just happened to be flying a Tower Vista 2M and that glider is not made to go super sonic. I know, I have one and it is a darn good flying glider for a stock ARF, but I did make a couple minor alterations on mine after the first crash. The one I like the most is my Chrysalis, but that may change as I get more gliders flying. I have three in the build now and one about ready to start testing.

You can't go wrong if you trim your glider out right and it will fly so much better that way then with that CG on the plans location. My next one up will be my first full house glider and I can't hardly wait to get it in the air.

Ed

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Old 03-17-2013, 10:10 AM
  #149  
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I dont want to hi-jack this thread or drag it into an off topic debate, but I will mention that there is a better way to check/set your CG than the dive test.

The dive test doesnt really tell you anything about your cg. All you can learn from the dive test is how the model is trimmed in terms of its aerodynamic decalage. In other words, does the elevator trim setting result in an up/neutral or down pitch change with airspeed changes.

Thats it. It says nothing directly about the CG. You can of course make some deductions based on your knowledge and skill, but they are guesses only.

Take my Bubble Dancer as an example. This model will go from pulling fairly sharply out of a dive to having almost no pullout to tucking in a dive - all without changing the CG one mm. All it takes is 3 or 4 clicks of trim to go from tucking to pullout. My Mirage and my Top SkyII behave the same way.

Doing a dive test tells you nothing about the CG.

If you're interested in more info, look for some articles by Gordy Stahl, LSF 5, on sailplane balance and trim. They were originally posted in RC Soaring Digest a few years back.

If anyone is interested I can post links.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:12 PM
  #150  
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Larry3215

I think I am going to have to disagree with you on that one. I would like to read your article however and I am always ready to be proven wrong and find better and different ways of doing things.

First of all, you state that doing a dive tests does not prove a thing and then you go on to say that you can make yours pull up, go straight, or tuck under, simply by adding or subtracting a few clicks of trim and that your Bubble Dances is proof of this. Now I will agree that the Bubble Dancer is a fantastic glider and one of the best there is, but you are missing the point of the dive test. My Chrysalis will do exactly what you describe in your dive test. It will pull up or tuck under, depending on how I set my trim. However, the point of doing the dive test is NOT to change the trim. If you read my instructions, you will notice that I said, when you change the CG, you need to reset the trim for a nice level glide and THEN do the dive test WITHOUT changing the trim again and without touching the stick. Now you have to hold in a little down to keep that dive going until you have picked up some speed, but then you let everything go and let the glider do whatever it wants to do, pull up, continue the dive, or tuck under. At the point where you can clearly see what the glider is doing, you take over again and fly the plane just like normal. You continue this until you get the CG where you want it and then fly it there, but, you NEVER add trim before you do the dive test.

This test will tell you exactly where the CG is in relation to the center of lift and that is what you are looking for. IF you find that center of lift, you will find that the CG is always in front of it with the exception of a very few people that are comfortable flying with an aft CG.

I say that the dive test tells you everything about the CG IF you are not changing the trim from normal glide to a different setting for that dive. Changing the trim defeats the entire purpose of the test and proves nothing, except what it will do if you change the trim. Do you change the trim like that when you are searching for thermals?? I don't think so. Well, you don't do it for the dive test either. You use the trim setting for level flight just like you would fly the glider looking for thermals and do the dive test using that trim and ONLY that trim.

A lot of people will change the trim to have some up elevator AFTER they are in a thermal and climbing simply because you normally slow it down some during a thermal ride to get the best climb rate, but some people simply do this by holding up elevator. If you can put flight modes in your transmitter all the better, but a lot of people don't have that ability with their transmitter or even know about them.

The next time you go out, try the dive test and see for yourself just what it will do in a dive. I'll bet that if you have your CG set close to the center of lift, the glider will pull out slow. However, don't change the trim, just use the trim you normally use to fly the glider. Now put some weight in the nose and set the trim again for that nice level flight and do the dive test again. Wanna bet what will happen??

Ed
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