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B-47 1/16th Scale, 6 EDF Model

Old 02-02-2011, 06:33 AM
  #126  
Capt. Midnight
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Default Update on Model

Hi B-47ers!

I haven't given up on this pesky model, but I've come close ... The Fowler flaps (at 1/16-scale) turn out to be ... difficult. In fact, I had to blow the whistle and call for a time out so I could keep from committing suicide. Short of that, I decided to leave the flaps for a while and concentrate on another vexing task - attachment/alignment of the #2/#3 engine pod to the wing substructure.

I had previously (laboriously) cut/sanded the dang ribs for the wings, after aborting an attempt to do the semi-normal stacked-rib sanding approach (the taper in the wing is too great to use that method). After some fussing around, I got the LH wing structure done, and made the abortive attempt at the Fowler flaps; the aileron is no problem.

A week in a rubber-lined room (after trying to get an inboard flap that would approach credibility) finally convinced me to drop that problem for a while, and I concentrated on the pod installation. After much fussing and fuming, I finally got the thing mounted, and I think it's reasonably close to the correct alignment (thrust centerline, etc.). Two 3/16 alum. rods provide the basic load paths, and a couple of 2-inch #8 metal screws secure the pod to the structure. This was all a kind of experiment, as I had not planned very carefully on how this aspect of the model was going to go together. However, I think it will be OK after the wing skin is attached.

I think I've figured out a solution to the inboard flap operation; it will kind of look like a Fowler flap operation, but the flap extension will only be on the order of 1.75 inches - kind of short, but good enough for us old guys.

A few photos are shown below.

Cheers,

Capt. Midnight
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:40 AM
  #127  
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Default B-47 Inboard Flaps

Hi B-47ers!

After a mighty struggle, I finally got the inboard flap (LH) to operate - see
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNSv4Dltsyo[/media].

Clearly some adjustments in the pushrods and/or servo end point (or servo arm) are required, as the terminal rotation/angle is clearly excessive, but
I'm confident this is doable; and I'll be able to replicate the arrangement for the RH wing.

Have not done any thinking/pondering about the outboard flaps, but they may be amenable to the same approach, though the space is getting very restricted. As noted earlier, no problems with the aileron, but must wait until the #1 engine assembly is built and attached (temporarily) to the wing.

More later.

Cheers,

Capt. Midnight
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:36 PM
  #128  
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Default B-47 Flaps

Hi B-47ers!

I spent another couple of days fussing (and fuming) with the LH outbd flap. After much hammering, sawing, kicking, screaming (maybe an explicative or three), and one puncture wound (poured some CA on it, and had a 2-unit transfusion), I finally got the bloody thing to function with some semblance of realism: see a short video: file:///Users/davidfplummer/Desktop/YouTube%20-%20MVI%201852.webarchive

I do need to make some more adjustments in the outbd flap links, but I'm not going to dump a lot more time into this black-hole operation - got to call it 'good enough' shortly.

More later; cheers,

Capt. Midnight
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:29 PM
  #129  
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Default Inboard & Outboard

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi B-47ers!

I spent another couple of days fussing (and fuming) with the LH outbd flap. After much hammering, sawing, kicking, screaming
(maybe an explicative or three), and one puncture wound (poured some CA on it, and had a 2-unit transfusion), I finally got
the bloody thing to function with some semblance of realism: see a short video:
file:///Users/davidfplummer/Desktop/YouTube%20-%20MVI%201852.webarchive


I do need to make some more adjustments in the outbd flap links, but I'm not going to dump a lot more time into this black-hole
operation - got to call it 'good enough' shortly.


More later; cheers,

Capt. Midnight
______________



Dave,

Looks good ! ! ! ! We feel your pain.

Sam worked on the flaps on and off for almost a year before we abandoned the c/f tubing and turned to miniaturizing
the flap hangers. Your challenge is much greater than ours because of your reduced size and resulting lack of room.

I hear what sounds like a servo stalling. Is mechanical travel angle so severe it exceeds an unloaded mid point position
to permit using a three way switch?

Ed
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:34 PM
  #130  
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Default Stalled Servo Noise

Hi Ed!

Yep - you have good hearing!! I need to adjust the linkages for the outboard flaps, and had to make a temporary link from the servo to the top of the flaps (for the flap 'rotation') as I didn't have a ball joint I needed. But wanted to try the thing out and see how it was working; will fix this problem as I zipped over to the LHS yesterday and got some stuff, so hope I can get things adjusted properly.

I had reworked the inboard flaps a bit and was able to get just a nick under 2 inches of 'extension,' so decided to stop fussing with that.

I'll be interested to see how you guys do with your flaps, as you were certainly correct about this being a very challenging aspect of this model.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:57 PM
  #131  
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Default Those Flipp'n Flaps.

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi Ed!

Yep - you have good hearing!! I need to adjust the linkages for the outboard flaps,. I had reworked the inboard flaps a bit
and was able to get just a nick under 2 inches of 'extension,' so decided to stop fussing with that.

I'll be interested to see how you guys do with your flaps, as you were certainly correct about this being a very challenging
aspect of this model. Cheers, Dave P.
Dave,

That is why I turned the flap over to Sam so I could rest every once and a while. In the end it looks like we're copying the
1:1 flap shuttle mechanism.

Don't forget you can utilize a programmable servo to move as needed with greater ease than trying to mechanically over
drive the flaps. We plan to mount our flap servos just ahead of the leading edge in the fuselage.

There are two servos, one per wing, driving stable material push-pull rod in sheath as found in a NyRod setup. The sheath
runs an arc just beneath our wing skin (foam core wing) along a wide path to minimize resistance commonly found when
sheath scrubs against inner rod in too tight an arc.

Each servo sits on the opposite side of fuselage from the flap it moves. This provides the needed vertical room for the servo
to pivot as the long tiller arm swings through its arc. I expect to have the arms of each servo overlapped in the center of
the fuselage when their full up position is achieved.

George sent me a pair of servos he used in the Tu-95. He wanted to show me how to make a "swinging" servo mechanism
to contend with the arc of the tiller arm "length". A long arm will load up on a fixed sheath position if the servo is not
permitted to rise aka pivot as the tiller travels through its arc.

I have a video that illustrates this. Will try to find and post it because the moving servo image defies any attempt at a
written description

I know we are more or less preprogrammed for 1/2 and full position flaps. I am probably only going to utilize full flap position
because our flap travels 90% of the flap bay with modified tilt. At 6 degrees incidence it will appear as if is tilted more than
it really is. We'll be at about a 27 degree tilt.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:24 PM
  #132  
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Dave,

How goes the 1/16th?
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:45 AM
  #133  
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Default Update on Model

Hi Ed!

I had keyed in a long update, but somehow, in the process of adding the photo, it disappeared.

Suffice it to say that I've made some progress: got the fwd and aft LG installed, and their doors fab'd, installed and hooked up (door actuation is by some micro servos); the retracts are electric powered, similar to the Lados, but not as robust - supposed to be good for AUW of 18 lbs, so they should be OK. Also got the bombbay doors fab'd and installed, but for the present, have decided not to actuate them; they do open/close, of course.

Just today, completed the hookup and test of the elevators and rudder; they seem to work OK, but the displacements are not all that great. No fun making the connections from the servos to the links/arms on the elevators and rudder, but got it done.

Completed the LH wing except for the #1 engine, and will tackle that next. Flaps work OK, but extension is about 0.5 inches short of what they should have - good enough for my skills.

Received my MicroGear from Buz at OSA; he has done the initial programming for me (as he knows I'm incompetent in that department). The MicroGear is used to control the sequencing and timing of the LG and the doors. After some testing, will try to get a video of the gear/doors lowering/retracting.

How are things going with your 1/10th B-47?

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:25 AM
  #134  
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Isn't it interesting we perceive a given size to be "perfect" when we start out then as we groom across the creation we
find ourselves being boxed in... That was my first thought when I saw your fuselage photo.

At least with George's fuselages at 1/14th~1/5th he molded critical components that opened up the interior permitting
free form placement of everything...easy for me to say. I am sure he would take issue with that if he were to read it...

I am actually in the middle of auditing everything to be absolutely sure it all fits when it is CNC milled and CNC hot wired.
More or less planning a 3D puzzle so the truss will intersect with the wing spars, then all sub components fit to form the
proper shapes for wing, etc.

Sam and I have been discussing acquisition of a ShopBot CNC mill table so we can do our own milling. While a first glance
may appear to be an expense, as you consider all the things it can do for us...and others...quickly we see it as a virtual
"0" expense.

We will probably acquire two additional partners to benefit all four and at the same time distribute acquisition cost. There
are many benefits, considering everything that comes along in the "package".

In the present, I have been busy with real world work...a good thing
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:25 PM
  #135  
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Default B-47 LG Lower/Retract Sequence

Hi B-47ers!

Attached (I hope) is a short video of the 'lower/retract' sequence on the model. I've used a 'MicroGear module from Oregon Scale Aviation to sequence the doors and retracts; it's an excellent piece of gear!!

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:47 PM
  #136  
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B^) Looking but can see....where's my good set of glasses?

Ed
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:27 PM
  #137  
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Default B-47 LG Video

Hi Ed and B-47ers!

Sorry, I just can't seem to get the hang of YouTube's video upload process; see if this works; if not drop me an email and I'll try to send the file attached to the message.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJGI7jYdRI0[/media]

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:01 AM
  #138  
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Default Right Side Up

Hi B-47ers!

Here's (I hope) a couple of shots of the model turned right side up - almost ready for a RATO takeoff. The nose-high attitude seems fairly close to my uncertain estimates from the various sources: maybe a cm or so high in the nose, but the rear is within 6-8mm, so it's probably good enough. Will try to find a temporary 'hangar' for the fuselage and return to the LH wing.

More later.

Dave P.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:09 PM
  #139  
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Now that looks GREAT :^) Congrats!

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Old 04-25-2011, 02:07 AM
  #140  
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Dave,

Its been too long since reading about the 1/16th Stratojet...what's up ?
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:48 AM
  #141  
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Default Update on Model

Hi Ed and other B-47ers!

Sorry to be so long without an update - some kind of problem with my Photoshop program that I need to reduce the file sizes of the photos. I've been trying to complete the LH wing, and am almost there (hopefully some photos attached). Because of the complexity of the bloody wiring, and the limited space, I've written to pres. of Boeing Military to see if they have a version of the B-47 in the archives that will fly with just the LH wing - no reply so far.

Will try to add more description tomorrow.

Cheers,

Dave P.

PS: tried to add more photos, but their file sizes are too large; will try tomorrow if I can figure out what's wrong with Photoshop.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:56 PM
  #142  
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Default PhotoShop Image Size

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi Ed and other B-47ers!

Sorry to be so long without an update - some kind of problem with my Photoshop program that I
need to reduce the file sizes of the photos. Dave P. PS: tried to add more photos, but their file
sizes are too large; will try tomorrow if I can figure out what's wrong with Photoshop.
Dave,

When you open PhotoShop and click "new" define the width and length of the image "field". When
you take your digital images go to your camera's pixel image size and select the 800 pixel width or
the closest to 800 pixel.

Importation into PhotoShop can be a two or single step process. For best results its best as a two
step. Create a folder to initially download images to within the computer. Then import the image into
the "new" file frame you created in PhotoShop to receive it.

This method permits you to utilize an arranged work space or virtual desk top onto which to compose
your images for editing with text, sizing, etc. When saving the final image, save "as" to permit space
you created with specs for size, etc to remain for all images you import next or in the future.

You need to name the work space in order to retain specs. The final image output from PhotoShop
should be no larger than 800 pixel width. When images are enlarged in WattFlyer they will appear nice
and large...but not too large.

You are beginning to see why we chose the larger size for our B-47's. There's a lot to fit with little
area to fit it with proper strength. The inboard nacelle alone is an absolute mess at your size. In our
B-47's at 10.2% we have two batteries, outrigger retract, ESC, EDF, and Eagle Tree stuffed in each
nacelle.

How did you attach your pylons to the wing?
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:30 PM
  #143  
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Default B-47 LH Wing

Hi Ed and B-47ers!

Ed: the 'Photoshop problem' has been caused by a recent update of my Mac operating system; other Mac users are have the same problem. I'll probably buy an update (PSE 9) as my current version is quite a few years old.

In any event, I was able to squeeze out 2 more photos of the wing; hopefully they're attached.

I'll take some shots of the motor-pod and tank pylon attachments and try to get them in my next update, assuming I can get their file sizes reduced to fit the forum limits.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:36 AM
  #144  
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Looks good Anxious to see the spar tubes inserted and the two joined to fuselage.

Charge those batteries up and let us hear the screaming? Then you can run your edfs...
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:22 AM
  #145  
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Default B-47 LH Wing Engine/Tank Attachments

Hi B-47ers!

I managed to get 2 more photos 'condensed' before PSE4 quit; they are attached.

Each 'pod' has 2 aluminum rods for load paths, and are fastened to the wing structure by 2 large/medium (for the tank) wood screws. My theory is that they might fail, but at least the attachment elements would fail, and not take the wing with them ... hmmm, better check with Boeing stress ...

Will try to get some more photos on the thread, but it is a major hastle; hopefully PSE9 will be here tomorrow and this problem will be solved.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:08 AM
  #146  
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Default B-47 LH Wing

Hi B-47ers!

OK, here's a quickie of the LH wing: I've kind of closed it up, but can't go all the way until I get the RH wing built, as I need to be able to adjust the support tubes before I epoxy them in place. I've checked all the 'circuits' and all the fans run OK, as well as the flaps, aileron and outrigger retract, so other than the tubes, I could finish it. Now, (UGH!!!) got to bite the bullets and do the RH wing. Will keep any interested bystanders posted.

PS: the small white 'patch' just fwd of the outbd flap is a small 'window' for cooling of the #1 engine motor control; a similar, but a somewhat larger 'patch' will be installed farther inboard for the #2 and #3 engine motor controls - at least the 'grills' are white, like the underside of the wing will be ...

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:03 PM
  #147  
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Default B-47 LH Wing and Tip

Hi B-47ers!

I think I can put the LH wing aside and start on the RH wing - couple of photos attached. The wing tip of the B-47 vintage I'm modeling is a bit unusual - if anyone has any comments on the aero aspects of it, let me know .

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:45 PM
  #148  
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Default Tip

Dave,

You never gave a "tip" about which B-47"?" you are replicating. It occassionally sounded like you are replicating the WB/E when a
reference has been made to the one in Seattle.



Note it is flat on top as its shape moves to the rear.





The light reflection shows clearly the tip top is flat as it moves to its rear.





Thought I would share these...
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:54 PM
  #149  
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Default B-47 Version

Hi Ed!

Thanks for the photos.

I haven't chosen a specific S/N to model, as the aircraft went through so many configuration changes over its life that trying to acquire a consistent information set for one particular series of production aircraft has proved (at least for me) fruitless (I think Goedel's 'Incompleteness Theorem' comes into play here ...). I'll pick out some S/N when I get more/less done; can't see that it makes any difference for amateurs like me except that the main external features ought to be reasonably close to a 'real' aircraft.

I used the B-47 at the (Seattle) Museum of Flight for a sort of general reference. The Museum doesn't have any detailed photo or other information on the aircraft during or after it's 'fix-up.' The aircraft is on loan from the USAF, and no significant effort was made (other than just exterior painting) to bring it to an 'original' or specific configuration. No access to the interior is permitted, but no restrictions on photographing the exterior.

I'm still puzzled about the shape of the tip - and what aerodynamic principles were used to define it.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:04 PM
  #150  
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Default B-47 LH Wing Identification Light

Hi B-47ers

Took a crack at the LH wing Ident. light; photo attached; needs some more work, so will try to clean up the blips and zingers.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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