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B-47 1/16th Scale, 6 EDF Model

Old 05-16-2011, 03:25 AM
  #151  
Capt. Midnight
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Default RH Wing Under Construction

Hi B-47ers!

Have made a little progress on the RH wing - see photos, below. A quick 'fit check' with the LH wing shows it is close enough for us amateurs. did have to make a few minor 'corrections' on some of the 'features' ( length of aileron, buttock lines for some of the ribs, etc., but, on balance, it's very close to the LH wing. After a few more 'details' are installed (flaps, etc.) I'll get a photo of the RH and LH wings on the fuselage (quick check of the RH wing on the fuselage showed that it lines up well, and should be within acceptable tolerances for alignment, etc.

More later,

Dave P.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:33 PM
  #152  
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Default

Dave,

Are you all skinned up and no where to go? Looking for more...

Ed
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:45 AM
  #153  
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Default Minor Update

Hi Ed!

Well, I wish the wings were all skinned, but tain't so. I did get the RH wing structure pretty much complete; got the flaps to operate properly, and installed a RDS (rotary drive system) actuator for the RH aileron (need to retrofit the LH wing to the same configuration). The RDS components produce a very stiff surface, and give good deflection (haven't measured it yet, but will do so).

Also, after a lot of fussing around, I finally got the #4/#5 engine pod/strut pretty well along. I had not made good notes during construction of the #2/#3 engine pod/strut, so had to do a lot of head scratching to get the RH pod to be more/less identical to the LH pod. Also, I made a number of changes in some of the provisions (I think they are improvements ...), so that slowed down things as well. Now have to add the doors and finish the strut, and hopefully will be ready for the #6 engine (if it ever gets here - don't know what is causing the delay from EJF). The #6 engine is quite simple, so that should go pretty fast.

When I get the engines done, I'll fasten them (temporarily) to the wings and see if I can get a photo of the wings on the fuselage - will post it as soon as I can.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:08 PM
  #154  
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Hi Dave,

I hope things are going well, all around...
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:11 AM
  #155  
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Default Time-Warp Progress

Hi Ed!

I think I'm stuck on the wrong side of the event horizon: the motor for the #6 engine turned out to be the wrong motor; then the fan housing seemed to have a crack in it (according to the source, it was just a mold line ...). Then we had a few days of good weather (read: no rain), so had to do some deferred maintenance (clean/stain deck, etc.) - now it's raining again.

In any event, got the #4/#5 engine pod more/less done, and am now struggling to complete the RH wing (flap travel is good, but the flap installations are difficult because of the little stuff (skin stiffeners) under the wing skin over the flaps). Got the LH aileron RDS installed in the LH wing, but had to cut a lot of holes in the wing skin to replace the little device I had previously installed.

I'm hoping to have the dang thing far enough along to take it to one of the local electric meets in late July, or, the Gods willing, to my club's scale meet (static display) on 18 July.

I'll try to be more diligent in posting, and will add some more photos.

How are things going with your 1/10th model??

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:24 PM
  #156  
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Default 1/16th Nearing Completion

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi Ed! How are things going with your 1/10th model?? Cheers, Dave P.
Sorry to hear about your #6. Interesting too with a part that small it would be cracked down a mold parting line. Good to read
its about to get out and about...well at least get to taxi in the rain.

1/10th has swollen to 1/8.7 or as I am calling it...1/9th.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:08 AM
  #157  
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Default B-47 Progress

Hi B-47ers!

I've been making some progress on the model, but it is approaching the finish asymptote, and that means the first derivative of the velocity vector is approaching zero ... OK, it's very slow.

I've finished the wings, but have not completely 'skinned' them, as I'll have to wait until I've finished fitting the wings to the fuselage 'torque box.' I've about got the LH wing fitted, but it takes multiple trials to get the intersections of the wing surfaces and the fuselage to mate correctly; but I'm almost there.

The two 'rods' that run longitudinally outboard in each wing work just fine, and the center 'spine' of the torquebox area is now fairly well secured to the fuselage center longerons and other structure.

The attached photos show a few views of the wings attached (with the rods) to each other, through the torquebox area.

I've made a layout of the vortex generators (using my plastic, 1/72 model as a guide, since I have no dimensional info on this detail). I'm sure these are essentially the same devices that I installed (on the flightline at Boeing Field) on almost-complete B-52s when I worked in the Template shop (1951-1955), so at least I have some familiarity with these little buggers - I think I need 120 per wing for both rows!!

More later,

Dave P.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:06 PM
  #158  
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Default Vortex Matrix Contradiction

http://www.scaleaero.com/B-47E/Vorte...utSmllComp.jpg Click for full size.


http://www.scaleaero.com/B-47E/Vorte...youtrimmed.jpg Click for full size.

General placement matrix.

Contradiction documentation:



Photographic documentation showing the angle of placement across the wing. Every other generator is turned GREATER THAN
180 degrees out from adjacent generator. According to the maintenance manual...the vortex airfoil flat is facing the adjacent
generator and at angle per the numbered maintenance manual page shown below.

http://www.scaleaero.com/B-47E/Vorte...Attachment.jpg Click for full size.



http://www.scaleaero.com/B-47E/VortexPage2.jpg Click For Full Size.



Considering the contradiction appears in two different manuals from two production maintenance periods it is probably correct
to assume the GREATER THAN 180 degree out "movidifed open ended V" pattern is correct, along with angle differential shown
above in photo and illustration form.

Dave,

Tha above with what you have gathered should provide a template as good as anyone's for placement of the generators. Are
you using extruded Evergreen Styrene or architectural model wood?



Balsa and bass strip can be glued at right angles to form angle. There are formed angles from balsa and machined balsa angle.
I will be visiting G & G Model Shop in Rice Village here shortly to see if Gus still stocks the small machined soft woods. Delicate
as they are...when coated with epoxy and painted silver they would work well with virtually "0" weight gain. If you have one
of the original format model shops in your town you are fortunate...take a look here:







Gus has ten dims of angled Basswood on the shelf in bins. I know, I'm spoiled and enjoy it <l:^O Basswood 1/32" thickness x ....



If your LHS is not heavily focused on a wide scale of rail roading, architecture modeling, and other traditional hobby shop items
you can order from Gus...Online! Gus delivers everywhere ! ! !

G&G Model Shop, Inc. ARCHITECTURAL TOOLS Basswood Shapes Styrene Shapes

Everything that does not have a hazmat condition can be ordered and shipped to you...at home or office. You can communicate
with Gus or one of the elves here... [email protected] Here's the web site... http://www.gandgmodelshop.com/ .
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:09 PM
  #159  
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Default B-47 Upper Wing Fairing at Fuselage

Hi B-47ers!

Made a little progress on the LH wing: finally got it fitted to the fuselage, and built a rather long fairing that is held in place by several small magnets; photo showing the fairing below. Since the wing is swept, and the opening into the fuselage has to accommodate the root rib, its a pain in the you-know-what to get an opening that will allow the wing-halves to slide on to their rods, and then mate with the pins on the center 'spine' in the torque box. Anyway, have this done to the 'good-enough' configuration and will now start on the RH wing.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:24 AM
  #160  
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Default B-47 RH Side Micro Progress

Hi B-47ers!

In between house maintenance chores, I've made some 'micro progress' on the RH wing installation - photo attached. There are three 5/16th nylon horizontal nut/bolts that attach the wing halves to each other and to the fuselage; I'll add two more 'vertical' bolts in each wing as soon as the RH wing fitting is complete. I'll then attach all the motors to both wings and install the assemblies (with the two rods that extend into the wings) on the fuselage and see if the whole contraption will hang together.

More later.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:24 AM
  #161  
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Default Short Update

Hi B-47ers!

Have had a real struggle getting the fuselage cable runs and a few servos relocated, but think I've got that done (had some servo jitter, and needed to reorient a couple of servos). The big problem was the rear retract developed a failed micro switch; but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the guy at Lander will send me a new circuit board (at least he said he would). With a 'Servo Slo' installed, and using Ch 7 on my Tx, I got the gear and doors to function properly. Now need to connect the wing servos (flaps and ailerons) and make sure they work OK.

Had some minor 'recalculations'/measurements to make (based on the 'as-built configuration') to get a fix on the model wing's aerodynamic center, and a 'starting' CG located, but think that is 'good enough' at this stage. Have trial fit one battery in the fuselage, and need to buy 2 more to get the main power circuits connected and tested.

Finished the RH wing/fuselage fairing (what a bore), and got all the bolts and nuts installed, so can now fasten the wings to the fuselage, and the engines to the wings.

If/when I get the replacement circuit board (or else, a new retract), will take a short video of the gear and gear doors in operation; same with the flaps.

More later,

Dave P.
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:05 PM
  #162  
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Default CG Change ???

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi B-47ers! Had some minor 'recalculations'/measurements to make (based on the
'as-built configuration') to get a fix on the model wing's aerodynamic center, and a 'starting' CG located, but think
that is 'good enough' at this stage. Dave P.

To where did you move your CG?
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:02 PM
  #163  
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Default CG Location

Hi Ed!

As I'm sure you know (better than me) determining a reasonable location for the CG is a bit problematic on this model - partly because of the small triangular wing area at the TE of the wing at the OML of the fuselage. Ignoring that small area, and using a root chord that corresponds to the intersection of the wing TE at the model centerline (BL 0) without that area, the computed aerodynamic center (AC) is about 16.6 inches aft of the leading edge of that root chord; this is from a little program available on the web. In my geometric layout (using the standard approach) on the wing drawing, the AC is a little farther aft of the root chord LE. (I included the little triangular area, so the root chord is longer.)

Since the CG would normally be located a bit aft of the AC (depends on choice of static margin), this resulted in a 'starting'/trial CG about 16-17 inches aft of the LE of the root chord.

Based on the little dimensioned 3-view in Lloyd's book, and noting that fuselage station zero is 44.5 inches forward of the 'nose' (shown in the 3-view), I calculated the AC on the aircraft (E version??) would be at station 625.7. This is reasonably close to the location of the AC on my model, so I think this is good enough for a start. When I get close to the finish line, I'll weigh the whole contraption and see if I can get a longitudinal balance close to the 'guestimate' location.

Will report further progress.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-28-2011, 08:39 PM
  #164  
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Default 25% Of MAC ~ COG

What is your wing incidence? You don't want to go too far aft... of the "Boeing" indicated CG. Per The Tu-95's
CG this works out to be the same; both wings are virtually identical. George did glider mock-up tests with this
as the location and it was correct. The glider flew gracefully forward, reached glide apex and stalled forward
evenly.

I have the CG declaration in another Boeing training manual. I'm guessing that is where Lloyd discovered it for
his book. The original includes critical dims in the illustration that Lloyd did not include in his book. According to
Joe Martin porpoising tendency is "built in" unless you drive the B-47 onto the deck. When he pulled up to flare
it immediately stalled and began hopping back and forth between the mains.

The 25% Of MAC CG declaration illustrates the literal distance from the fuselage nose (sans bombsight). This is
48' 5.02". This is proportionally the same as George Maiorana's and BB Weber's Tu-95 Bear CG locations. Both of
the Tu-95's have well over 100 flights on them.

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Old 08-28-2011, 11:00 PM
  #165  
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Default B-47 Model CG Location

Hi Ed!

The angle of incidence is 2.75 degrees, per a tabulation from T.O. 1B-47B-2; I presume it's the same for the E model. What my 'as-built' value is, I don't know, as I don't have an easy way to measure it; however, I suspect it's close to that value, as that's what's on my drawing.

The AC value from the little computation program is fairly close to what I got by using the conventional graphical/layout technique on my build drawing. Also, the AC station value I get for the 1/100th scale drawing is based on the station value given on that drawing (44.5) for the 'nose', and on the assumption that this is the same station shown on the small 3-view drawing in your post (I have the same drawing): 48 ft 5.2 inches is 581.2 inches aft of the nose; adding the 44.5, I get a station value (for the AC) of 625.7.

Using the 1/100th scale drawing, and the conventional graphical/layout technique, I get a AC station value of about 631, based on the 'short' root chord (not including the small triangular wing area); using the 'long' root chord, the AC moves about 15-20 inches forward (guestimate). So, I guess one has to be reconciled to some uncertainty (ala Heisenberg??) in this location analysis.

I haven't made a 'toss glider' of this model (as I did for my model of the TSR-2); might do that if I get desperate.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:30 AM
  #166  
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Default Incidence From Boeing

Sam and I are staying with Boeing drawings.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:38 AM
  #167  
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Default B-47 Wing Incidence Angle

Hi Ed!

Well, you may have a different drawing than I have, but the 1/100th Boeing drawing I have shows (and is marked with) an angle of 2.75 degrees between the root WCP and WL 200 (WL 200 is more/less coincident with the top surface of the fuselage). The aircraft sits (on the main gear) at approx. 6 degrees with respect to the ground line and a line through the center of the inboard engines; I'm not sure what the relation is between WL 200 and WL 131.5 (the latter being more/less the longitudinal C/L of the aircraft) and the C/L of the inboard engines. In the small drawing, the C/L of the inboard engines seems to be parallel to the wing-root WCP, but who knows. I kind of eyeballed my 'as-built' configuration, and I'd guess my angle of incidence (with respect to WL 200) is about 3 degrees. Not having any better info or references, and no knowledge of the aero performance of the aircraft, I think I'll stick with the as-built condition and the incidence angle shown on the 1/100th drawing.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:44 PM
  #168  
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Default 1/9th Incidence(s) Have Been Ongoing Concerns

Yes, the 2 degrees 3/4 minute appears to be the wing incidence at the root. That creates an aggregate 8 plus degrees...of drag
in the takeoff roll. Sam said that explains the RATO. We were joking about using compressed air... :^)

At the private airport we are using for testing runway length is not an issue. At Bomber Field it gets skinny with only 700' of runway.
I'll have to feed the two ponies premium Joules.

ROG =

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Old 09-04-2011, 07:35 PM
  #169  
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Default Well Balanced Hobby

I noticed the absenece of you posting smiles... Remember its a hobby... Oh, by the way...I forgot to post a picture of our GC proofing
tool....courtesy of Nabisco.



Have a good Labor Day Weekend !
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:08 AM
  #170  
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Default Gun Turret

Hi Ed!

Labor Day was nice, but a wee bit warm for our branch of the planet - mid 80s; supposed to hit 90F this coming weekend.

Have not felt impelled to the smile department as one little problem after another is bugging me: got the new PCB for the aft retract from Lander; installed it and it worked fine. In the next email (from Lander) I learned that they are releasing an 'upgraded' design - much stronger, and (perhaps) more reliable. Oh well - progress ...

Have ordered the other 2 flight batteries, but they won't be here for a week or so. Got most of the wiring straightened out, and have tested the GoSlo device for the flaps - works fine. Completed a couple of access doors in the forward fuselage (for the recvr, electronics batt., and other stuff). Flight batts will go (I hope) in the bombay.

Fussed around with the tail twin-20mm turret - see photos below. I's not finished, but the general appearance, etc., seems to be OK. Will need to put on some more gesso to get a better finish, and will try to get the paint reasonably close. Closed in more of the fuselage, and will get on to attaching the motors to the wings (need to add some detail to the nacelles) after applying the lower-surface white film.

More later,

Dave P.
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:22 AM
  #171  
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Default Follow-up

Hi Ed!

Forgot to comment on your Shredded-Wheat B-47 - looks like a winner!!

Yep, you might need some RATO at the shorter field ... The 'built-in' angle of attack (ca 8 degrees) seems high, for sure; I suppose the flaps help a bit. In our ITOs during flight training I think we got the nose up about 3-4 degrees (for the T-28 and T-33); no idea what incidence either aircraft had. From further 'research', it appears the incidence for various 'modern' jet aircraft (some multi-engine, some single engine) seems to vary between zero and 5 degrees; but none of the aircraft listed in the tabulation has the 'bicycle-type' LG, so rotation was not a problem

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 09-06-2011, 02:34 PM
  #172  
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Default

Dave,

Your turret and its radar look good. They've been talking about upgrading their gear since Sam was looking for our outrigger
retract. Back then Horizon touted their 60/90 system would soon be released.... It took another eight months before it saw
the light of day. Their Chinese supplier ran into issues...probably related to cost as inflation finally struck its mark in China.

I am about to find out how successful I am at acquiring stenciling and placards. After a long silence...several of my inquiries
are responding. I'll share resources when I've got authentic resources.

The 8 degree incidence on the runway presents somewhat of a wattage issue... we laughed about compressed air, but maybe
that would not be a bad idea. However the cost of those CO2 cartridges is a bit steep when using 32 of them each takeoff...
Our flaps are more of an area extension than angle of deflection increase...we may have a very fast rollerskate.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:59 AM
  #173  
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Default Vortex Generators

Hi B-47ers!

After several days of fussing, I finally finished one row of vortex generators on the LH wing of the model - talk about time consuming ... I've appealed to several of my pals for an alternate approach to making about 30 of the little VTGs at a time (using a wood block to hold the solid plastic rods, then gluing the little vanes on top), but no one has come up with a high-rate mass production technique yet.

I also made a trip to the Seattle Museum of Flight and (with the help of a metal chair from the Museum's outdoor eating area) took a bunch of photos of the VTGs on the Museum's B-47. A fair number of the generators in the forward row on each wing are missing, and there are none in the second/aft row. I've appended a couple of photos of my model wing and the B-47's wing.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:41 AM
  #174  
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Default Mrs. P's Favorite Vortexer...Dave :^)

Excellent Dave ! ! ! ! !

I could not tell for sure, but it looked like you were flattening rod then cutting if free at a proper height. Is that the way you made them?

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Old 09-20-2011, 05:31 AM
  #175  
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Default Vortex Generators

Hi Ed!

Nope - I made them (not too imaginative, I admit) by cutting pieces of 3/32nd solid plastic rod to about 3/8-inch in length (or so); these were inserted in holes drilled in a wood block (photo below) - later version had 30 holes in it - then glueing the little vanes onto the rod end. I let these set several hours, then I could handle them and place them in the holes "drilled" (actually used a router bit in my Dremel) in the wing. I used a low-wattage soldering iron to pierce the skin of the covering; this helped keep the covering from tearing when I enlarged the holes so the plastic rod would slip in. I secured the little VTGs with some CA stuff that had some sort of 'filler' in it so it wouldn't set up too fast, allowing me to align the pairs with a plastic gage. The whole process was rather time consuming, but I just couldn't figure out a quick way to make the little VTGs. If any one knows a unique source or 'production technique' for these little buggers, please let me know.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Quick Reply: B-47 1/16th Scale, 6 EDF Model


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