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B-47 1/16th Scale, 6 EDF Model

Old 09-20-2011, 09:21 PM
  #176  
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I must say, when it comes to looking real, your turbulators look like the real McCoy. I actually was taken back a bit
by their authentic look. It is much more difficult to achieve at your scale. Setting a jig up to mill pass two sides of
the rod in a fixture would have been as much if not more work than the way you did it.



Drilling & inserting the rod makes them extremely strong and not apt to pop off as I am sure you feared if they had
been glued to the film.

At nearly twice the size, I think I can make a jig to mill 2/3rds of the rod flat for ours. I too plan to drill and glue to
the wing after it is glassed, primed and Flite-Metal'd. That will be one of, if not "the" last thing I do.

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Old 09-22-2011, 02:39 AM
  #177  
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Default Something To Emulate... :^)

Arizona Jet Rally participant...at least four years ago. I have an inquiry going to the YouTube poster. I will share replies
with details when received. It is powered by four edf in the inboard nacelle...hence the over sized diameters. Obviously
flies very stable, etc. Believe its somewhere around 70" w/s or less. Note white cowboy hat in foreground...that is Ray
Cannon the designer/builder.






You can easily see this XB-47 has huge, non-scale, ailerons. Mr. Ray Cannon builder of the above B-47 is I believe from
the LA area. The scene below certainly appears to be Jack Rabbit lake bed SE of LA. Above image was taken in 2000 or
2001. Mr. Anthony Frackowiak was Ray's pilot and eventually bought it from Ray.



I received an email from Tony. Will call him tomorrow for flight feedback, etc. Will post details.

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Old 09-22-2011, 09:39 PM
  #178  
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Dave,

T.O. 1B-47-1 "Location and Application of Exterior Stencils" is the T.O. containing the stencils and placards. I
figure you want to apply dry transfers as I do. I have a copy of this T.O. headed this way. I will convert pages from white to a transparent background for each.

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Old 09-26-2011, 10:06 PM
  #179  
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What did that look like on your end?
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:13 AM
  #180  
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Default Museum of Flight B-47

Hi Ed!

If your question refers to the finish on the Museum of Flight's B-47 (at Boeing Field in Seattle), it has been painted in the 'basic' grey and white finish; you can get some feel for the appearance by visiting the Museum's web pages, and from a couple of other sources. It's clear that there is a fair amount of corrosion and deterioration in a number of areas; not sure what the Museum's long-term plan is for the aircraft.

Dave P.
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:33 PM
  #181  
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Default Docs In Living Color

Well, well, well...guess what I happened to discover...and in living color no less...

You might recall I have been beating the dust off of every known archive in my search for stencils and placards. Pima Museum's B-47 was repainted in the early 2000's and the stenciling is so~so when compared to the T.O. I received from the USAF. Its not to say they are not usable, it is what it is...but I do not recommend spending that much on an airline ticket to obtain them.

Dave...let me introduce you to some interesting shelves in Boeing's basement archives over in Bellevue, WA.



I am not so sure the indexes for the archive will have stenciling and placarding as a line item. While I have been turning over every stone looking for stencil resources I found the above photo from David Parker Brown's syndicated blog. The blog focus is Boeing Archives in Bellevue, Washington. David Brown's article and photography serve to disclose details of their archive.

Me thinks its time to revisit Mr. Lombardi. What's the chances a former Boeing employee could gain access to these shelves? Yesterday (Oct. 23, 2011) Dave Brown confirmed he took the above photo and others described in his blog during "guided tour" of the Boeing archive accompanied by Michael Lombardi in the basement of a building in Bellevue, Washington.

Per the hand applied marker on the lower left of David's photo the books are probably located at vertical stack #23...then again, only Michael Lombardi will know... ;^)

1). B-47A Volume 2
2). B-47E March AFB, ATO, Drawings Volume 1
3). B-47E Ground Takeoff Volume 3
4). B-47E Flight/Ground Manufacturing in particular.

Information and above photo are courtesy of:

David Parker Brown
Owner: AirlineReporter.com
Syndicated on Reuters, Seattle PI@AirlineReporter
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:00 PM
  #182  
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Dave,

After reviewing T.O. 1B-47-1 I found nothing in it relative to the vortex generator layout pattern. It had cleaner/clearer fuse,
wing, tail station layouts.
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:51 PM
  #183  
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Default Vortex Socket Pattern

Dave,

Early this morning I went back to review my resources to see if I was overlooking the vortex socket pattern. Below is the pattern which seems to match photos. Deflection angle is shown per the T.O. illustration above.



http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=154084&stc=1&d=1319117 432

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Old 10-21-2011, 11:25 PM
  #184  
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Default Salon Quality Dry Transfers... :^)


If this works to my satisfaction I will return and list explicit products by brand and product bar code identity so you will know what products work. I will create a test bed to make dry transfers using the above process then apply them to Flite-Metal photograph the end result so you can be the judge of how good a job the above does.
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:23 PM
  #185  
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Default Vortex Generators

Hello B-47ers!

Had to take a time out for a variety of home maintenance tasks, and waiting for some photos from the Museum of Flight (they arrived last week). After evaluating all the photos from the MoF, I resumed installation of the vortex generators (VGs). Based on the measurements that the MoF provided me, I concluded that my forward row of generators on the LH wing are about 0.2 inches too far aft, but decided they were close enough for non-government work.

I resumed 'fabrication' of the VGs by squeezing small aluminum tubing in my drill vise; doing both ends of the tube and sawing each one off gives me a pair to install. This is definitely not very exciting, but can't think of another 'fab' technique. Photos below.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:54 PM
  #186  
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Default Watts Next?

Since you were not happy with those results, what's your resolve? Sam and I are stuck over here in flapland trying to dig our way out of a weighy issue.

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Old 11-19-2011, 03:37 AM
  #187  
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Default Vortex Generators

Hi B-47ers!

I tried to post a longer reply, but it got lost in the ether. Suffice it to say that I decided to cut a slot in the leading edge of the LH wing, and used some plastic strip material to make up the two rows of VGs. the VGs were glued to the plastic strips with tweezers - talk about boring!!

I'll insert/glue in the LH rows in the LH wing before going on to the RH wing. After I get the LH rows installed, I'll add some additional photos.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:04 PM
  #188  
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Default Vortex Generators

Hi B-47ers!

I finished the installation of the vortex generators in the LH wing. Had some problems getting the plastic strip with the VGs on it installed and faired into the upper surface of the wing, but I finally had to call it 'good enough.' Will try to improve the installation in the RH wing.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:28 AM
  #189  
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Default Finishing the Fuselage

Hi B-47ers!

Sorry for the long delay - holidays and other minor problems.

Just a quickie to send a snap of the fuselage - more/less complete on the LH side - am dreading the time to duplicate this much finish work on the RH side - wish there was a 'copy' function ... The black patches are small sections of low-gloss stick-on vinyl - bit of work figuring out the patterns, but I think they will be OK; I won't stick the pieces on until the RH side is done.

I'll try to post some additional photos of some 'intermediate' construction steps in the next several days.

Cheers, and happy new year!!

Dave P.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:15 PM
  #190  
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Shes looking good! Can't wait to see her out in the daylight all put together.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:53 AM
  #191  
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Default B-47 Fuselage More/Less Finished

Hi B-47ers!

Attached (I hope) is a photo of the finished fuselage - actually, I need to add the windshield wipers, attach the canopy glasing, and add a couple of coats of white to the tail end. If the weather holds, I'll put the wings on and get a photo of the whole model, and may try a short taxi.

Stay tuned.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:52 AM
  #192  
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Most impressive build ! The VG's are very intresting !
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:04 AM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hello B-47ers!

Had to take a time out for a variety of home maintenance tasks, and waiting for some photos from the Museum of Flight (they arrived last week). After evaluating all the photos from the MoF, I resumed installation of the vortex generators (VGs). Based on the measurements that the MoF provided me, I concluded that my forward row of generators on the LH wing are about 0.2 inches too far aft, but decided they were close enough for non-government work.

I resumed 'fabrication' of the VGs by squeezing small aluminum tubing in my drill vise; doing both ends of the tube and sawing each one off gives me a pair to install. This is definitely not very exciting, but can't think of another 'fab' technique. Photos below.

Cheers,

Dave P.
That looks really good Dave. Worth the effort to model such a stand out feature.
Much more work than molding 18 radial cowl blisters, or a few other of the less exiting tasks I've done recently, such as cutting out 36 circular window masks for painting. I'll remember what you've gone through here, the next time I complain about a repetitive task.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:31 PM
  #194  
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Default Can-O-Peas

David,

Because of your success in making your canopy and its placement I would like to ask for its dims across its multiple width flaring from the near flat at the rear across to the arc of the fuselage front. I for one realize this was a real challenge that few can appreciate.

Below is the front fuselage section of the B-47's sectioning. If it is not asking too much, I would like to know how wide and tall the canopy is at some specific stations. As you can imagine at our scale this will help establish my frame's flare position.

Click For Full Size: http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B4...tationMstr.jpg

I purchased four canopies, as describe early-on in "In The Beginning" portion of our B-47 thread. These are used in pairs of identical shapes when cut free from their original forms. This permits me to use one as the basis for the frame and the other as the clear canopy. They are thin with a flush fit is perfect. I will use carbon fiber to corral the original molded tension.

Our B-47 canopies are derived from E & WB photographs and a card stock B-47. The card stock unwrapped paper doll shape is relatively accurate to the card stock model, I am editing its dims...which brings me to you as part of my data with which to edit it.


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Old 03-11-2012, 08:56 PM
  #195  
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Default Canopy Dimensional Info

Hi Ed!

I'm not sure I can be of much help, but have attached a scan of the canopy plan view from the 1/100th-scale Boeing drawing with some approximate station numbers and dimensions across the base of my canopy plug (photo attached). I made some minor adjustments to the canopy size so that I could get my pilots and other cockpit stuff in after I was well along in the construction. The plan view- and side-view profiles pretty well adhere to the Boeing drawing, however. I made a thin plan-view profile 'outside-edge' bottom frame (1/64th ply) that I attached the canopy frames and other stuff to (hope there's a photo attached), and that was what I attached my rear hinges to. (Undoubtedly you'll have your own method of construction.) After all the dust had settled, and the fuselage was pretty much complete, I then glued my glazing to the lower frame; it took some adjustments, etc., but it came out pretty good.

Let me know if I can provide any more unhelpful help!!

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:19 PM
  #196  
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Default Canopy Cross Section Auditing

Dave,

Thanks, as you can imagine my copy of the Boeing 100th does not have clear text enough in these areas to read properly.

You have given me exactly what I was looking to acquire as a comparison point by rescaling your dims to mine I can audit what I am doing. My fuselage to canopy contact is not along a straight line. There is a dog leg in it which comes to an apex at station 211.

Below is a blue straight line shot below the canopy drawing and its upper edge following the lower canopy edge. The swag represented by the blue fill is what I will have to cut away for the scale 1:8.7669 canopy.


Your dims will permit me to edit the two canopy masters I am using to get them to fit the fuselage curve properly after I cut and add the swag back to what you used on your 1:12th.



After I plug your dims into what I am working with I can feel better about what we are going to end up with. The paper doll template is more along your dim shapes so I will end up overlaying your dims to the paper doll then alter the side to include the dog leg.



That is the unfolded paper doll canopy. I am not using its windshield. Everything else can be edited to proper swag shape.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:55 PM
  #197  
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Default 1:1 Cockpit Lighting

Dave, I am curious about the interior lighting of the B-47. Were there some florescent bulbs in the cockpit? I ask because of a photo I have that has an exceptional amount of "pure white" light in the image. Its not the warm white I am familiar with in most warbirds.

*

I suspect in the right photo above the copilot's sextant is shown attached to the canopy. *Image couresty of Time-Life for educational purposes.

I ask because with an (AC) alternating current onboard system it would be logical to see florescent used for general lighting. Photo could have been simply staged with blue/white lighting. I know the normal low level lighting is warm glow, was there a white light source onboard as well? I also have line art images showing small spot lights in the cockpit which appear to be on goose neck extensions.

Also, was there a light in the end of the overhead curtain frame? I have another photo showing what looks like a lens cover of a light squarely in the end of the curtain frame running down center of canopy top.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:30 AM
  #198  
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Default Canopy Lights

Hi Ed!

I have no idea of what the light in that photo was supposed to mean - none of the aircraft I flew had any such 'general illumination.' My guess is that the illumination in the photo was just for photographing the guy in the front seat; I notice he doesn't have an O2 mask on.

In the source material I have, there was a kind of 'band' running along the inside, top center of the canopy from front to rear; in the middle of the co-pilot's area there was some sort of fixture attached to the band that permitted the co-pilot to attach a sextant for celestial navigation purposes. However, I don't have any real specific info in this feature, but I did incorporate such 'device' in my model. If you have any contacts with the B-47 Association, I'm sure you could get some info on this. I'll dig through my stuff and see if I can find any info and will post it if I do.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:59 AM
  #199  
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Default Cockpit Lighting

Dave,

Thanks for your trip down memory lane. Note, I added a photo of the CP with his sextant overhead. It is the only one I have of it in its in-use position. The Navigator's is clearly shown in our documentation through no fewer than 6 images. Sextant's head is I assume the same as the CP's as the only external difference I can tell is in its mounting system.

Its not necessary to dig looking for more. I did not find a reference to the light in the end of the curtain frame. I found image that looked like a light bezel in the end of the curtain frame that would have been an excellent location for a hooded LED over the pilot's head shining forward. I may place one within a hidden recess to shine on the pilot's instrument panel.

Thanks for the answers. Its nice to have someone who sat back seat to ask questions of. For example: Was the circuit breaker control panel in the copilot's station illuminiated? The photo below appears to show it illuminated. I will illuminate ours if it was. Cream colored micro LEDs will work very well in the panel. Note: There appears to be a large light just to the right of the panel. Is it possible these larger lights were all turned on when the photo in question was taken?



Below is a Boeing illustration of the B-47's lighting locations. Thought you might want to use it. These projects are never completed... ;^)

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Old 03-13-2012, 05:37 AM
  #200  
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Default Panel/Cockpit Lighting

Hi Ed!

Thanks for the lighting diagram. I had picked up on the lights on the aft tip of the vertical stabilizer, but didn't know about the top/bottom fuselage-mounted lights.

Yes, that does look like a light in the right side of the photo, but I can't believe either the pilot or co-pilot would use such a light (during night flying) - it would have some effect on your night vision, and would otherwise be a big nuisance.

Having never flown in a B-47, I don't know what sort of provisions they had for 'flood-type' lighting in the various crew positions, but we did not have any such lighting on the (early-model) B-52s that I had some training in. In the C-45, for example, if the co-pilot needed to find a switch in the cockpit (and didn't know the location from memory), you used a flashlight; there were no 'flood-type' lights in the cockpits of the C-47s, T-28As and T-33s that I flew.

Could be a good question for the B-47 Association gang.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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