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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 10-11-2010, 06:55 PM   #401
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Default What Fits Where...With Ease And Purpose

This is the bottom up view of the inboard nacelle with Dynamax centered at front of the pylon blade. There is an overlay of the hot
wire templates for the face of the Dynamax and the inside rear of the nacelle inlet. The face of the nacelle with both openings is
removed along the line seen just aft of the nacelle lip assembly.


Image courtesy of Bob Leserve


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Old 10-11-2010, 08:21 PM   #402
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Default Photos of #2/3 & #4/5 Engine Pod

Hi Ed!

Got a few photos of the engine pod/inlets that may be of some use; these are of the (Seattle) Museum of Flight WB-47E (s/n51-7066). The s/n seems to indicate that the aircraft was produced in 1951, perhaps as a "B" model; it was converted to WB/E configuration by Lockheed, maybe in the early 6os.

Cheers,

Dave P.


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Old 10-11-2010, 09:27 PM   #403
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Default Starter Motor Covers AKA Shock Wave Guides

Hi Dave,

Hope things are going better up your way... I got a call from my brother-in-law earlier advising my sister suffered a mild stroke at 4am
today. I await a report of the consequence... I called and spoke with her before lunch.


The alternators are behind the inlet cones with four stators centering it within the nacelle. I will make stators with cones since they
are narrow and should not effect inlet volume.

Below are a few "A" model photos showing the inspection/maintenance bay doors, the stators, cones, and alternators.



Note the leading edge slats in the above photo.



I have been using the lower photo for flap bay detail in my work-ups.



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Old 10-11-2010, 09:47 PM   #404
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Default Inlet Configuration

Hi Ed!

Sure hope your sister recovers!!!

I only posted to photos to show the difference in the inlet configuration for the 2-engine pods on the later model B-47s. I think the photos with the maintenance guys in your post are from the very early model of the -47, but have no conclusive evidence.

Cheers,

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Old 10-12-2010, 05:10 PM   #405
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Default B-47E Transonic Cones And Inlet Stators

Dave,

Thanks, Martha is basically in a holding pattern while NS's gain additional data.

Yes, the B-47 inboard nacelle images were of an A with its leading edge slats. The internal component layout is basically the same
through out the B-47 family. Those transonic cones remain on every engine. Later model inlet stators (4) were attached closer to
the face of the inlet and mounted on the cones themselves instead of aft of the cones.



These photos show one of the four remaining on the late model nacelle. Note accumulative dirt where the other stators were located and
the stator bolt receiver in the cone. The cone had a slot to maintain proper stator positioning.



For those building along...here is the inlet template for the Dynamax and the interior hotwire cut of the bifurcated nacelle inlet.
Image courtesy of Bob Leserve


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Old 10-12-2010, 09:14 PM   #406
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Default

Our E Models only had alternators on the number 1 and 6 engines...

Lifelong RC Pilot
Still 'passing gas' flying nitro and gas too!
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:15 PM   #407
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Default If @ First You...

Practice makes for perfect results... We're on our way to the scale flap mechanism.







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Old 10-17-2010, 05:59 AM   #408
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Default Flipp'n D' Flaps

Here's the side view...Close up later...



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Old 10-17-2010, 04:57 PM   #409
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Default Back On Track, Flap Track That Is...


Flap moves rearward parallel to overhead track as seen in Boeing photos with each pair of out-rigger arms attached left and right of over-center
mounted push-back arm (top ball link). Out-rigger arms are attached to the flap at the rotation axis using the center ball links, multiple) located
at scale positions across inside top of each inboard flap bay.




There are cut outs in top skin of inboard and outboard flaps extending rearward from the leading edge to permit high center flap shuttle
attachment angles to clear top flap skin during fore to aft travel.





Outrigger rides within a pair of parallel channels mounted either side of the flap drive shuttle. Shuttle is seen below with the center flap
push-back and out-rigger attachment arms.





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Old 10-18-2010, 03:44 AM   #410
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Default D' Flap

Full flap...complete cycle will appear next.



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Old 10-18-2010, 04:23 PM   #411
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Default Flap Channel Animation

I know, its a sloppy animation sequence...Van Gone...I am not...hope you get the idea...


Whatcha thunk? ?



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Old 10-19-2010, 02:45 AM   #412
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Default

I thunk that's a simple yet elegant solution!

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 10-19-2010, 03:46 AM   #413
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Default Simpler Is Usually Better....We'll See :)

Don,

Ironically this is similar to the first design Sam drew up. He didn't tell me about it until I was well into comparison of our minimum photographic
docs to the carbon fiber flap mock-up. This started with MSgt Kaye's trip to the B-47 Assn reunion in Omaha where he found someone with a
complete set of assembly and maintenance manuals... I was supposed to begin seeing images of the real deal shortly.



Realizing the carbon fiber tube set-up was going to be extremely difficult to disguise as anything close to the 1:1. I was very pleased to hear
Tom's trip was not only enjoyable...it was rewarding for he and our B-47 project. Our desire to look like the 1:1 brings us close to achieving not
only function...but form.

There are many advantages of the multiple flap track and shuttle set-up:

1: Cosmetically this is very close to a scale B-47's flap tracks and shuttles.
2: Wing area gain is achieved with minimum flap diflection...minimum drag.
3: This appears to have less scrub friction than the C/F tube with Nyrod.
4: Shuttle straight back motion integrates flap tilt mechanics in the shuttle.
5: Flap mechanism foot-print within wing is minimized.
6: Flap mechanism is accessable with simplified maintenance.


Drag and its consequence is the concern. I definately do not want to find myself behind the power curve during the final approach
because the flap angle deployed too steeply and too early. This looks like this could provide what's needed.


We'll see...



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Old 10-20-2010, 02:17 AM   #414
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Default Could Not Thumbnail Flap Animation

I tried to post this as an animated .gif thumbnail but the site flipped the .gif to a .jpg... ;^)





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Old 10-21-2010, 08:47 PM   #415
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Default Flap Track Composite & Components

I'll be back


The ganglions thicken... Below are the individual components in their unit sets.


Flap channel, with set screw~outrigger stops. Stops force flap deflection...aka rotation.



Shuttle backplate aligns all shuttle components.



Composite flap shuttle with sleeved all-thread set screw spacers.


Brass shuttle half, sleeve, and all-thread set screw.

Left and right "Y" outriggers, suspension/stop rod, and roller sleeves.




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Old 10-22-2010, 01:36 AM   #416
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Default Around Every Corner...

1960's SAC security is alive and well....47 years later...


Well, at least in the mind of that USAF retiree/B-47 Assn. member who volunteered to photocopy B-47E flap system component
illustrations from a set of maintenance and assembly manuals he took home for safe storage in his garage...47 years ago...





Thanks anyway Tom... Its the thought that counts....RIGHT ! ! ! ! Exactly like duck and cover... d:^P

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Old 10-22-2010, 03:06 AM   #417
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Default No Images

Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
I'll be back


The ganglions thicken... Below are the individual components in their unit sets.


Flap channel, with set screw~outrigger stops. Stops force flap deflection...aka rotation.



Shuttle backplate aligns all shuttle components.



Composite flap shuttle with sleeved all-thread set screw spacers.


Brass shuttle half, sleeve, and all-thread set screw.

Left and right "Y" outriggers, suspension/stop rod, and roller sleeves.


Hi Ed!

None of the images came thru on my viewing - what's in them, anyway?

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:20 AM   #418
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Default All That Dangles In The Breeze Isn't Bling!

Everyone....

A little patience...please...while the flap shuttle mechanism illustration is placed within this thread. Dave, those are the flap shuttle, flap track,
and flap tilt mechanism components. I placed text beneath each but its obviously not good enough. Preventing wasted resources (time, money,
and blood) I have two scratch building rules.

(1) It is best to lay out geometry, as shown with the flap track shuttle, flap track, and tilt mechanism on paper or virtual paper...
(2) When ever possible leave waste on someone else's shop floor!

Universal rule of scratch building.... No its not measure twice and cut once....
If rule (1) is found to be difficult.... follow rule (2). Unless (1) and (2) are followed, a person could literally fill their trash cans to
their heart's content and never come up with proper angles for what ever it is they want to make. In my case, flap suspension arms, arm
retention tracks, and proper moments to tilt flap at the "end of deployment".

I know most following this are used to fancy CAD...welcome to how anyone can use a graphics editor MicroSoft Image Composer or Adobe
PhotoShop to compose your work-ups. When completed, all that remains is measuring the "outside" perimeter of the what ever to determine
displacement then purchase materials fill the perimeter, in this case brass is silver soldered for an instant Flap Track & Flap Shuttle.

Scratch building is a constant displacement compression exercise...remembering maintenance and servicability are the most important issues
after satisfying angle moments to achieve desired movement.

So how do we deal, content with, and "enjoy" the elements of design?

Its a mental shift in focus, in three dims as you work across your projects. Sam said its my warped view... I tend to think of it in terms
of a scued point of observation, an oblique point of observation enabling you to better understand the components comprising your project.
Think of it in terms of "paper dolls". Unwrapped, your project is a whole lot easier to manage...


Unwrapped will permit you to see how components can work together in a compressed (reduced) space to achieve what you want to achieve.


"Z" why should I be concerned with three axis when scratch building ? ? ?


No, its not our first trip to this~here rodeo... Oh, yes there is a rule (3)....keep it entertaining... As long as you do, its fun to do.



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Old 10-22-2010, 03:33 AM   #419
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Default "Images"

Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
All images are showing fine... Perhaps you should refresh your screen or delete temp internet files if you've been online a long time prior
to viewing this image intense thread. There will be on going image inserts and edits from here through to the end of this thread.
Hi Ed!

Are those "images" just schematic/circuit diagrams? All that I 'see' are a bunch of rectangles, some with cross-hatches. If these are schematics/circuits, how about a little 'index' to explain what the different schema mean?

There's nothing wrong with my computer, but I do use a Mac, so lots of stuff doesn't come across to us heretics.

Fail Safe was garbage, but Dr. Strangelove was close ...

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:58 PM   #420
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Default On The Enlightening (Lighter) Side

This...should go a long way toward uncloaking the mystery of how the Boeing photograph is translated into our flap hanger and shuttle.

To View the full size animation click here:http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B4...FlapMoSeq2.gif




Shuttle backplate aligns all shuttle components attached (silver soldered) to it.



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Old 10-22-2010, 08:41 PM   #421
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Default Flap-Mo II

I really didn't intend to be redundant....just want to make sure those who need an accurante image sequence have it... in detail.

http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B4...FlapMoSeq2.gif



So, what is this made from you ask? Brass angle, rod, channel, sheet, flux, silver solder, carbon fiber tube, carbon fiber rod, ball links, and nyrod.







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Old 10-25-2010, 02:42 AM   #422
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Default What Was Is Not What Is.... Boeing, Boeing, Boeing


What "was" the former set is "not the" project former set. Above non-Boeing line art with triangle sections with its diamond core is longer applicable.
Boeing provided B-47E drawings replace it. The Boeing drawings are being reop'd to render final former shapes & mechanical layout. This is expected
to take a while, however with use of PhotoShop it will move at twice that of original work-up. For those not familiar with how our B-47E's break apart
for transport the A through D explains.

A: Nose section, removable ahead of green triangle, and the "A" section ahead of vertical dash line (parting point)
are attached to fuselage via lower "A" triangle.

B: Wing truss-in-truss within "B" section of "B~C" internal diamond receiver of fuselage.

C: Is rear upper triangle portion of the "B~C" fuselage diamond terminating at rear vertical dash line (parting point).

D: Rear triangle receiver for vertical fin spare truss.


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Old 10-27-2010, 02:59 PM   #423
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Default New Forms For Formers

At this point with little in the way of feedback/inquiry from the 35k+ views this thread has enjoyed I do not dare take it for granted
the process is understood...hence the degree of project detail.

If your path to this paragraph began with thread page (1) you appreciate the fact line art drawings are not engineering, n are they
engineered technical drawings. It is more often the case to find front, side, top and bottom view (persepctive) drawings to be in a
different scale...aka size....on the same drawing set.

I won't go into why...again. Its what it is...as modelers we simply have to live with it. 1:1 manufacturers do not as a requirement...
for detailed composite engineered drawings of their aircraft. They focus on each part and the part to part integration to make and
assemble each in unit-sets to achieve the whole. The composite drawings they have are general layouts for manuals and assembly
of the units sets.

Guess what...Boeing's engineered drawing with its station/former data is less than perfect...surprise, surprise ;^) Though it is what
it is, its not like working with typical multi-view (3 VU) line drawings drawn by an artist. What do we do? Its simple, each shape is
audited against the side, front, bottom, and top view at 3200% (yes 3200%) of the original Boeing drawing. Meaning, truing, and old
time adjustment renders excellent shape and position continuity to photos of the B-47E.





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Old 10-28-2010, 02:46 AM   #424
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On the cleaner side of things...4100 pixel width...working image is over 8000 pixels wide.
(Click to copy paste 4100 pixel image...http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B4...sRedat4100.gif)


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Old 10-29-2010, 07:52 PM   #425
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Default Watt-A-Moment...

The current process is confirming position and proper size of each fuselage station to assure when utilized as the CNC master shape the end
result is correct. The first validation is to confirm line art I received from Boeing archives has decent moments. Click underlined text to copy
full size: http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B4...-MomentJPG.jpg

Included in this stack is the AirAge B-47D turbo prop planset with its non-scale moments and area for comparison. I am satisfied with second drawing
from the top, the Boeing archive provided B-47E drawing. The next step is overlaying each and every former shape from nose to tail validating its scale
and shape... What, you thought because they were on the same sheet with the side view they cleared the decks as accurate?

They are not...an iniital audit disclosed issues I had hoped to avoid. No big deal, after all this is not a kit. Its interesting to note the bottom drawing
was composed in 1956...apparently from the second drawing down with additional photographic documentation. Gerry did excellent work ! ! !



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