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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 02-20-2014, 08:33 PM   #101
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Default You're Practicing Diplomatic Skills...

No Pattern,

Nah, prior to its content being deleted, you need only to have read sentence one to clearly see the ignorance of it all...
considering there are four threads spaning my entire project. I find I am hard pressed to say anything positive. I suppose
we could rush right to construction of the two interior truss and forego the balance of the B-47's fuselage.

Can you imagine what would be said about a flying truss?

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Old 02-24-2014, 05:03 PM   #102
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Default Back To The Wild Blue Yonder... Dow Styrofoam Blue

We expect to see "blue polystyrene" test results of corrected inboard .iges file soon. I spoke to Javier, who is close to
sending individual rough cut sections to enable me to check mechanical clearance of everything within.



That would be: edf, pylon blade (splitter plate), esc, batteries and dims. For those who have not been traveling with us
I include an inboard sectional image showing all inboard polystyrene parts as they appear after milling.



Question....What do we do with these after they arrive? (Yes, an invitation to participate in a community learning curve.)


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Old 02-25-2014, 01:35 AM   #103
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Question....What do we do with these after they arrive? (Yes, an invitation to participate in a community learning curve.)
Bench test for thrust measurements?

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 02-25-2014, 02:48 AM   #104
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Default Nacelle Evaluation

Don,

Good comment. Actually all thrust measurements were derived three years ago using youtube video
searches for 120mm edf with Neumotors 1915 series motors. At the time I made a preliminary decision
to use Stu Maxwell's 110mm fan with the helix stator vane layout after viewing it power an F9 Panther
in Austrailia.

Finding a bifurcated twin jet is problematic. To my knowledge my project is the only one afloat at this
time. Most people press on for 2 edf in each twin nacelle instead of realizing the greater the fsa the
greater the static thrust. Larger airframe nets more than the FAI maximum AUW...so until that ceiling
changes I bifurcate.

I chose to go with bifurcation because the larger the fsa the greater the static thrust during changes
in rpm during landing that will occur due to the B47 has bicycle aka inline landing gear which mandate
your landing must be virtually level or parallel to the runway with only changes in altitute...no flare.

Ideal flying speed for the wing area of my B-47 is in the high 70's through low 90's. I will have a 30 to
35 mph approach to landing with the aid of heading gyros on the rudder and ailerons (identical to 1:1).

To make this longer than usual answer as short as possible... I decided if I was going to spend as much
as five of his edf (remember we have two B-47s) I definately needed proof of thrust. I figured the only
way I could assure what was claimed was real and consistant performance by using YouTube videos.

Here is the Panther with Stu's 110 edf with Neumotor. Power to weight ratio, battery duration, similar
drag envelope and throttle performance all met my criteria.

The video appear below
9oZ_sjNbfgO

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Old 02-25-2014, 04:34 PM   #105
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There are many elements to take into consideration relative to thrust. Most important to me
is Static thrust across base leg to final. Maintaining level attitude across and initially into
Final is going to permit me to sustain level decent. Remember it's a bicycle, inline gear.
So far all but one model B47 flown has suffered from bouncing down the runway.

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Old 03-02-2014, 11:28 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
There are many elements to take into consideration relative to thrust. Most important to me
is Static thrust across base leg to final. Maintaining level attitude across and initially into
Final is going to permit me to sustain level decent. Remember it's a bicycle, inline gear.
So far all but one model B47 flown has suffered from bouncing down the runway.
Hi Ed; so the one model that did not bounce.....was it piloting skill that prevented this, or was there more to it?
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:50 AM   #107
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Default Over Running One's Own Documentation...aka Get'r Done Son

Hang in there just a moment I think I have the flight video close by. Its a kinda sorta
scale B-47 with the outrigger pushed outward beneath outboard nacelles which then
are disporportional by about 40%...but it did fly which is something neither of mine or
Dave's have achieved as yet. Enjoy Ray Cannon's B-47 flight.



No landing footage, it has been a while since I last viewed this video gathered early on
way back when this all started. I suppose I do need to skip along here...the project is
outliving its documentation .

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Old 03-08-2014, 03:39 PM   #108
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Default Guidance Counselors...aka Delivery Men



Spent several days working on the pilot, co-pilot, and nav/bombadier. Resolved ninth scale sizing and helmet, helmet
being the most difficult to mail down at 1:9. Back in 1990 a series of 1:9 commemorative helmets made available. The
helmet itself is cast in high detail aluminum with clear goggle, polyvinyl oxygen mask with hose, and blast shield, with
the obligatory elastic straps and metal closures. Weight was a concern, then I rationalized there is plenty of time to
reduce mass if needed during final assembly. The jacket fur collar is detachable.



Unpainted, unassembled to permit alteration.



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Old 03-10-2014, 12:04 AM   #109
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Default Bling Bling

Finally rediscovered the chaff despensory system. Glitter Glitter




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Old 03-18-2014, 03:39 AM   #110
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Default The Sum Of All Their Parts

Lyle Vasser's 9th scale B-17 crew members are available with crush caps or ball caps. I opted for the head with ball caps and
radio headset. Both get Dremeled making way for our ballast...I mean helmets (more about that later).

To permit me a greater opportunity to alter and fit Lyle's figures to exactly what is needed I ordered the figures disassembled.
I will share photos of them as I create replica of the blue flight suited pilot with his MayWest (water wings aka flotation collar)
this:



It turns out there is a fourth color or in this case a second shade of blue. Can you explain the six man crew?



May West (yellow) inflatable life vest between parachute harness and flite suit sans dark goggles.



Today at March AFB the B-47 cutaway cockpit used in the making of the movie "Strategic Air Command" with Gen. James
Stewart at the controls sits in the onsite museum collectionl. You can walk up a few steps to make viewing every detail
easy. A lot easier than service crews had when the B-47 was in use.

March was one of the most active B-47 bases in the USAF with missions originating here that ended up well into Siberia
and Russian nuke testing atmosphere as they sampled fallout to determine the size of the weapon detonated. Sam's B-47
replicates one of these used for this and less clandestine missions related to weather, mission forecasts, realtime mission
weather analysis, and hurricane hunting...or was that seeding.... Remember our "Bond" Girl with umbrella standing beside
one of these?



Note misspelled Mi"l"itary in this focus on a missing B-47 and "weather bombers" (WB-47E).



As I dial in on my jet pilot conversion of Lyle's 9th bomber crew member you will see it unfold here.

Ed


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Old 03-19-2014, 03:38 PM   #111
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Default Scale Realism, Its Value & Parting Point Examples

"The" helmeted crew members in proper scale are a wee bit more difficult to achieve than I originally imagined. 1:8.7669
gets you half way 'tween off the shelf figures in hope of looking correct.

Remember different contest conventions award different point values for the same feature or quality differential and how
they are applied/earned. At the lowest level we can influence craftsmanship, scale continuity to the 1:1. On their own
these are enough to earn you two to three tenths over a competitor in a contest overall score.

My point of view on this is to show as much detail as possible in areas typically neglected by others. Typically this would
be attention to wheel wells, viewable cockpit from 2'~3' away, surface texture/detail, applied graphics appear painted if
they were originally, and autonomous electromechanical features.



A good example of detail with a high level or return on investment. The Armour Collectables 1/8th scale jet pilot helmets
replicating the 1:1 over a 50 year period of military jet flight. The above is as close to the helmet worn by B-47 pilots in
the USAF. It is actually an HGU 55P worn during the same time frame, however by USN pilot. I needed to match photos
of crew members in my documentation.

The helmet graphics will be removed, everything else remains the same with exception of the SAC logo appearing on the
front of it, its white.

Lyle's crewman head with helmet to show how little Dremeling is required.





This is the real deal...



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Old 03-27-2014, 10:26 PM   #112
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CNC Test of the inboard nacelle will arrive in two weeks. Javier has been Flite-Metaling
his T-38 molds. This is one huge turbine at over 12' in length.

Decided to make my own helmets from RTV rubber mold with Alumilite endothermic resin.
Will make another mold for face O2 mask and goggles.

Since I have the perfect master for these I'd be crazy to use the originals at 5 oz each.
Will probably offer these with other B-47 items when finished.

Any of you have experience with a two piece RTV mold of an item with a cavity within
it? Remember, if it were easy everyone would be doing it...more than once

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Old 03-30-2014, 03:46 AM   #113
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Default Gotta Ask Elsewhere...But Will Share

Disappointed there were no replies to my RTV molding post. Guess I will have to go to
RCScaleBuilder.com to get feedback. Will post back here as I work through molding a
helmet for my three crewmen.

Ed

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Old 04-02-2014, 06:06 PM   #114
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Default New 1/8th Crew/Pilot Head

Will Dremel to match later today when I return from "gottsta do's".




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Old 04-02-2014, 06:21 PM   #115
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Don, or anyone reading along...

Has anyone ever posted an RTV mold making process that you recall? Is there any interest in my sharing
the process as we make our new crew member head/helmet?

Before anyone asks, no I am not going to sell the molded head with proper helmet to anyone because the
head (sculpture/artwork) I am using is Lyle's at Best Pilots. The 8th helmet portion will be available to you
to use with Lyle's crew member head in its' required altered state.

Lyle will sell his figures disassembled to permit you to further properly arrange the parts to fit as you need.
If the plan works out, I'll show the altered state later. Beyond that depends on your responses.

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Old 04-02-2014, 08:56 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
Disappointed there were no replies to my RTV molding post. Guess I will have to go to
RCScaleBuilder.com to get feedback. Will post back here as I work through molding a
helmet for my three crewmen.

Ed
Don't be down hearted Ed As if we did not know already, your attention to detail is inspirational. Making your own scale pilot accessories is probably beyond the scope (or interest) of most modellers. Very steady hand with that Dremel there.......
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:13 PM   #117
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I missed this thread,, Dang cool, super work there,
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:31 AM   #118
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Ed, I hate to say this but the detail and scale realistic look of the heads has really creeped me out. Especially post 111 for some reason.

But to answer your question, no, I don't recall anyone posting the RTV mold making process. So please share away!! Even though you don't get a lot of comments, your thread is getting a lot of hits so folks are viewing it. I agree with what Pattern and Steve said about your work. It is inspirational!

10,007 views just in this thread alone is impressive for WF.

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 04-03-2014, 03:21 AM   #119
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Default Heart For The Tin Man

Ah, a little heart for the "Tin Man"...this is nice Sorry, caught in a weak moment wondering
if anyone was following along. Yes, I will take some photos of the how-2 for molding process.
The directions are on the cereal box top. Remember I said everything from here on out would
be a short disclosure.

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Old 04-03-2014, 12:18 PM   #120
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Default just to clear things up

Going by what you have told us, the judge(s) will be about two to three feet away from the plane, looking through the canopy into the cockpit, presumably from different view points/angles. Looking at the bubble canopy of this aircraft, it appears that the helmeted head of the pilot will be the most prominent feature, with anything much below waist height being a little tricky to see unless standing directly over it. So it goes to reason that the detail on the helmet is worth the extra effort to get it right; is this the rationale Ed, or am I missing something more obvious here?
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:53 PM   #121
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Default Cockpits Are Eye Magnets

Excellent question! Yes, and no ;^) Weight was my real reason. I have to maintain a real sense of AUW (all up weight)
economy 24/7 for this project. I am only permitted 15kg ~ 33# AUW without batteries. When the helmets arrived I was
shocked to find them at almost 2.4 ounces each,,,times three crew members.

As for what is seen within the cockpit, the cockpit opening is wide when compared to that of the typical jet when the
fuselage beam (cross section) is 13.2777 inches. Its a huge rectangular tub with tons of eye candy that will attract a
lot of attention.

Judges are 15 feeet away from the model in USSMA, AMA comp. SM and TG craftsmanship judge is 30 inches away.

Below you see how much is going to be visible, especially when micro LEDs are used to light up gauge faces in various
areas seen easily from outside canopy. Canopy does not retract more than about one inch as it opens and rises half an
inch to "vent" cockpit. All crew entry was through the hatch on lower left fuselage side below cockpit.



As you see, this is a roomy hotel suite compared to your typical jet. Instruments are easily lit with the use of
transluscent printed faces they will draw attention indoors, outdoor the fact you created more than a simple
wannabe instrument panel earns brownie points as a result of a crowd gathered over cockpit details.

Below is the cockpit tub and front parting points master...courtesy of Boeing with Richard's CAD tub tube.


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Old 04-03-2014, 10:57 PM   #122
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Default Cockpit Tub Within Hotwired Tubes

Remember I am doing shorthand posts relative to previous posts wherein you may have been confused by something you
thought was the furthest from a scale modeling project. Well, they are going to reappear without too much detail as we
bring everything to conclusion.

This is the cockpit master showing the cockpit tub position in the front. This section is composed of two additional cross
section parting points as you move from rear to front of this removable portion of the fuselage. These had to exist so the
internal truss system to be created and maintained.




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Old 04-04-2014, 02:09 AM   #123
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Which of these is preferred? It will print in white regardless of style.




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Old 04-04-2014, 03:43 AM   #124
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I can see the details better in the top view.

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 04-04-2014, 03:53 AM   #125
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Don,

They are two different CAD drawings of the B-47 baseline cockpit instruments and controls.
Printed, these components would be at the each level and glued into a rectangular enclosure
then locked into the fuselage so it could be removed so it can be repaired or more access is
required beneath it.

The individual items print in a bone color and accept paint very well. Well, as good as model
car surface The invidual items are throttle knobs, throttle arms, The base of throttle quad,
and individual seat components. These things tend to be less is more to keep it looking real
without getting too OCD in the process.

I want to use lots of micro LEDs as the condition indicators red, orange, green and white for
back lightiing instruments. Its my hope that our ABS printer will do the majority of this for us.
That way it will be less overall time consuming with good results.



Ed Clayman
"Flite-Metal For The Look Of The Real Thing"
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