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Converting PZ Spitfire to brushless

Old 08-28-2008, 11:38 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
Max Power, AKA Homer Simpson
Yea, I saw that episode too...

Just ordered an alloy motor mount, BL motor and 40A esc, following this thread with interest.

Although I am not sure about the speed you have there, maybe too much for me just yet, but can add restricter to my throttle hand...
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:42 PM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
Yea, I saw that episode too...

Just ordered an alloy motor mount, BL motor and 40A esc, following this thread with interest.

Although I am not sure about the speed you have there, maybe too much for me just yet, but can add restricter to my throttle hand...
Eflite Park 480 bolts up pretty well, 10x7 prop will go in the stock spinner and this setup has plenty of power although I needed 10g in the tail, I don't want to push this model too much, I've heard stories of them folding on stock power.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:00 AM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
Eflite Park 480 bolts up pretty well, 10x7 prop will go in the stock spinner and this setup has plenty of power although I needed 10g in the tail, I don't want to push this model too much, I've heard stories of them folding on stock power.
Hi radweld,
I am a slow and lazy flyer, not a speed junky... (have 2 wheels for that )
Not flown with the standard setup yet, still waiting for a break in the weather.
Would the Park 480 be over powering the spit?

The motor I have choosen is Turnigy Bell 2409-18T 1200Kv brushless.
Will this be ok?
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:22 AM
  #254  
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Should be fine, I guess the suggested prop for that motor will be between 8-9". The Park 480 is a little big really for the airfram and it's already starting to suffer. I've noticed cracks in the fuse but the wings seam to be holding up of.

When choosing a motor you also have to consider the A rating to work out how powerful it will be. I bought a Tunigy clone initially, this was 1200KV and it wasn't that good but it was ok. The 3mm shaft of the motor was weak and snapped once and bent the next time so I decided to bin it and use the Park480. The original motor had a 16A drain so it could only swing a 9" prop. The Park480 is over 25A so can swing a 10 or 11" prop with ease.

My youtube vids were using this tunigy clone.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:45 AM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
Yea, I saw that episode too...

Just ordered an alloy motor mount, BL motor and 40A esc, following this thread with interest.

Although I am not sure about the speed you have there, maybe too much for me just yet, but can add restricter to my throttle hand...
I think you'll enjoy it, the key is to take it up and bring it down successfully a few times before you let it rip.

This one is a little hot, but it handles better than the P-51. Takes a turn without losing the altitude that the 'Stang does. Its fun but you can't relax on it -- I almost ate a tree at WOT in a shallow dive yesterday, so I am still a bit gunshy. I must confess it won't end up as my daily flier, as I have to be in the right mindset to fly it (read that as: no beers ).

So with that being said, beer in hand, I am off to fly my chuck lol Love that thing!

P.S. - just wanted to mention that my setup is an inrunner with a reinforced stock gearbox, so I am out of the game as far as the best outrunner for it.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:44 AM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
Yea, I saw that episode too...

Just ordered an alloy motor mount, BL motor and 40A esc, following this thread with interest.

Although I am not sure about the speed you have there, maybe too much for me just yet, but can add restricter to my throttle hand...
It is easy, you just go up in diameter on the prop and down in prop pitch and it will drastically lower your max speed. However when i had my spitfire running at my field it was fun to coast around all slow and silent with my friends, my spitfire is rather light and has no problems at low speeds, BUT when you have that option to put the hammer down and you want to make some room on your six, there is nothing like breakneck speed to put a smile on my face. I built my spitfire for speed but spent just as much time in the air at 50% power just bombing along like anyone else who has this plane.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:08 AM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
Should be fine, I guess the suggested prop for that motor will be between 8-9". The Park 480 is a little big really for the airfram and it's already starting to suffer. I've noticed cracks in the fuse but the wings seam to be holding up of.

When choosing a motor you also have to consider the A rating to work out how powerful it will be. I bought a Tunigy clone initially, this was 1200KV and it wasn't that good but it was ok. The 3mm shaft of the motor was weak and snapped once and bent the next time so I decided to bin it and use the Park480. The original motor had a 16A drain so it could only swing a 9" prop. The Park480 is over 25A so can swing a 10 or 11" prop with ease.

My youtube vids were using this tunigy clone.
These are the specs for the motor from the advert.
Turnigy Bell 2409-18T 1200Kv

Weight: 56g
Voltage: 10v (2~3 Cell lipo pack)
Idle Current: .9
Kv: 1200
Shaft: 3mm Diameter
Max efficient current: 15.5A
Max Load: 20A
Max Power Output:180W
Suggested Propeller: 9x47 SF Propeller (such as GWS Slow Fly)

So the A rating is 15.5 to 20A?
If I have read that correctly.

Got it from the "bay", and was 8.95 - $18, or there abouts.

Originally Posted by DetroitHawk
However when i had my spitfire running at my field it was fun to coast around all slow and silent with my friends, my spitfire is rather light and has no problems at low speeds
Now that sounds like what I want from this...

Originally Posted by groundrushesup
I think you'll enjoy it, the key is to take it up and bring it down successfully a few times before you let it rip.
That sounds like a plan, and look forward to it, may be a few days before the motor arrives, then a bit longer to get it all installed.

Thanks for all the replies.
Drew
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:55 AM
  #258  
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http://www.giantcod.co.uk/ka2210s-12...d45628a9294ec9

Is this your motor? this is the one I bought but it only got used 4 times, the third flight the shaft snapped, the fourth flight the shaft bent! It was way too weak for a belly landing plane. Other than that the motor has decent power, it's nice and light but 9x4.7 is the limit this motor can take before burning up.

Prop pitch is like the gears in your car, smaller numbers would equal low gears in your car, like 1st and 2nd etc, with low pitch props, you will have great acceleration, great climbing ability but not much speed, The higher pitch props are then like high gears, it takes longer to accelerate but your top speed is higher.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:14 AM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/ka2210s-12...d45628a9294ec9

Is this your motor? this is the one I bought but it only got used 4 times, the third flight the shaft snapped, the fourth flight the shaft bent! It was way too weak for a belly landing plane. Other than that the motor has decent power, it's nice and light but 9x4.7 is the limit this motor can take before burning up.

Prop pitch is like the gears in your car, smaller numbers would equal low gears in your car, like 1st and 2nd etc, with low pitch props, you will have great acceleration, great climbing ability but not much speed, The higher pitch props are then like high gears, it takes longer to accelerate but your top speed is higher.
Nope thats not it. See picture at the bottom.

Your explanation of the prop pitch is good - just need things to sink in my thick head quicker.

Just got delivery of some 9x4.7 SF-E props too, so should work with this? Strike that out -

Just got delivery of some 10x8 SF-E props too, so should work with this?
(ordered these for my BL Cub project)
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Last edited by drewpyfz6; 08-29-2008 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Make a correction:
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:03 PM
  #260  
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So you have to think about the KV of the motor being like the engine RPM in your car.

If you put your foot to the floor in 1st gear, you will have an amazing amount of torque to pull you and the load you carry up a steep hill. If you tried this in 5th gear, the engine wont be able to prvide enough toque to satisify the damand of the load.

It gets a little more confusing with props though, because you can use a smaller prop and increase the pitch or use a larger prop with a smaller pitch and each has a similar load. However, if you use a large prop with a small pitch then the models speed will be reduced. If you use a smaller prop with a larger pitch, the smaller prop might not have enough bite on the air to drive the model forward with enough torque.

This is about the limit to my understanding though, it is complicated lol.

That motor looks like a CDrom motor, you use those in small shock fliers. It looks a little too small to me.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:10 PM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
So you have to think about the KV of the motor being like the engine RPM in your car.

If you put your foot to the floor in 1st gear, you will have an amazing amount of torque to pull you and the load you carry up a steep hill. If you tried this in 5th gear, the engine wont be able to prvide enough toque to satisify the damand of the load.

It gets a little more confusing with props though, because you can use a smaller prop and increase the pitch or use a larger prop with a smaller pitch and each has a similar load. However, if you use a large prop with a small pitch then the models speed will be reduced. If you use a smaller prop with a larger pitch, the smaller prop might not have enough bite on the air to drive the model forward with enough torque.

This is about the limit to my understanding though, it is complicated lol.

That motor looks like a CDrom motor, you use those in small shock fliers. It looks a little too small to me.
Very good explanation - again.

You know, I never spotted that sticker saying "CDROM" - d'oh!
The specs say they recommend a 9x47SF prop, so cant be that small?

Will have to see when it arrives...

Thanks again, appreciate the responses.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:42 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
Very good explanation - again.

You know, I never spotted that sticker saying "CDROM" - d'oh!
The specs say they recommend a 9x47SF prop, so cant be that small?

Will have to see when it arrives...

Thanks again, appreciate the responses.
most mfgs. give a range of all-up weights for each motor, which is a quick way to rule out a motor. its usually the first thing I look for when perusing or dream shopping

Ive also been toying with motocalc which is like taking a college course on electric rc aircraft propulsion... if you run enough scenarios, though, you start to get a sense of how the prop size, pitch and speed interact with the power train. and it gives you handy summations of likely performance, etc.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:49 PM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
most mfgs. give a range of all-up weights for each motor, which is a quick way to rule out a motor. its usually the first thing I look for when perusing or dream shopping

Ive also been toying with motocalc which is like taking a college course on electric rc aircraft propulsion... if you run enough scenarios, though, you start to get a sense of how the prop size, pitch and speed interact with the power train. and it gives you handy summations of likely performance, etc.
You lost me on the first sentence...
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:01 PM
  #264  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
You lost me on the first sentence...
sry mate. what I meant to say is that in the specs, usually there is a range of weights best suited for the motor, like, hrmm

Weight: 16-32oz


As I recall the spit is 28oz, all-up (with batt and all the goodies), so yeah this motor would be a candidate. if a motor says

Weight: 10-16oz.

then you can bin that idea right there and move on.

's'all I was getting at

(postin from the mobile)
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:25 PM
  #265  
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Cheers Josh, got that now.

Looking at the specs it says "weight 56g"...

Was not sure if that was the actual weight of the motor.#?
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:46 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
Cheers Josh, got that now.

Looking at the specs it says "weight 56g"...

Was not sure if that was the actual weight of the motor.#?
That will be the weight of the motor, I've seen this style of motor used on shock fliers, the profile type planes made out of sheets of flat foam. It looks a little small to provide enough power. Also SF props are "Slow Flier" and these props work at a lower speed than standard E "Electric" props.

Now i myself and still learning but I found out that for decent performance you need a motor between 1000kv and 1400kv that pulls between 16-30amps. This can then swing a nice large prop such as 9 - 11" I guess the wattage of the motor can be compared the BHP of an IC engine, the wattage tells you how much power the motor uses, the higher the wattage, the more power you will get.
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:11 PM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
Cheers Josh, got that now.

Looking at the specs it says "weight 56g"...

Was not sure if that was the actual weight of the motor.#?

Yeah you are right on that... I was posting from my phone so I wasn't clear. lemme dig up an example.

(from this page)

Originally Posted by hobbycity.com
AXi 2217/12 GOLD LINE Brushless Motor


The high quality and performance of AXI 22xx GOLD LINE motors meant that they were a perfect base for development of the new AXI 2217/xx GOLD LINE. New small and powerfull motor AXI 2217/12 GOLD LINE with rotating case is suitable for aerobatic models up to 1000g and for light sailplanes up to 1200g. Hardened steel Shaft have 3,17mm diameter and is supported by two large ball bearings wich ensure very good mechanical stability. Thanks to using newest materials this motors achieve in their weight category extremely high efficiency and high load possibility.
Trainer
Recomended Model Weight: 900g
Lipo: 2S
Max Current: 30A/60s
Suggested Propeller: 11x4

Aerobatic/Warbird
Recomended Model Weight: 1000g
Lipo: 3S
Max Current: 30A/60s
Suggested Propeller: 9x4.5
3D
Recomended Model Weight: 850g
Lipo: 3S
Max Current: 30A/60s
Suggested Propeller: 10x4
Hotliner
Recomended Model Weight: 800g
Lipo: 3S
Max Current: 30A/60s
Suggested Propeller: 9x6


For more information, please visit;
http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?page=61&product=2217&serie=12&line=GOLD
Recommended Model Weight is what I was gettin' at.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:14 AM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
Yeah you are right on that... I was posting from my phone so I wasn't clear. lemme dig up an example.

(from this page)



Recommended Model Weight is what I was gettin' at.
They did not quote a recommended model weight in the advert.

Its bought, so will find something for it, one day.

Thanks for the information.
Drew
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:17 AM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by drewpyfz6 View Post
They did not quote a recommended model weight in the advert.

Its bought, so will find something for it, one day.

Thanks for the information.
Drew
it'd be perfect for a chuck
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:32 AM
  #270  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
it'd be perfect for a chuck
Just cant seem to find them over here in the UK, but I am still looking.

Yours looks great.
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Old 09-01-2008, 11:36 AM
  #271  
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Righty o people Im nearly complete,Im just waiting on my props apart from that Ive got everything.Im just trying to work out the settings for charging my battery lol.Its pretty complicated and I definately dont wanna mess that bit up.Do I have to discharge the battery completely before I start charging it up ? Also i dont get the charge rate and discharge rate, The charge rate is 0.1 - 5A and the discharge rate is 1A, what do i need to set mine on . Ive got the battery that radweld recomended (loong max 1800mah)
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:39 PM
  #272  
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You never discharge a Lipo battery, in fact if you discharge it below 3v/cell or 9v in total then the battery will be destroyed so you need to make sure this never happens. You need to make sure your ESC is set for a Lipo cut off so it does not discharge the battery too low.

As for charging, use 1C or for a 1800mah (1.8ah) battery, 1.8A Please make sure your charger is configured to charge a 3S Lipo and use a balance every other charge or so. If you don't set the charger correctly, the battery can explode so you need to be careful about this.
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Old 09-01-2008, 02:01 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
You never discharge a Lipo battery, in fact if you discharge it below 3v/cell or 9v in total then the battery will be destroyed so you need to make sure this never happens. You need to make sure your ESC is set for a Lipo cut off so it does not discharge the battery too low.

As for charging, use 1C or for a 1800mah (1.8ah) battery, 1.8A Please make sure your charger is configured to charge a 3S Lipo and use a balance every other charge or so. If you don't set the charger correctly, the battery can explode so you need to be careful about this.
Ok will do cheers buddy, so i wont bother balancing it for the 1st charge then ?
Oh and how do i make sure the esc is set for lipo cut off coz i didnt get any instructions with it
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:33 PM
  #274  
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Ok im charging , ive set it at 11.1v and 1.8A .its charging as I type so if I dont report back in about an hour then Im being identified by my dental records.
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:48 PM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Ok im charging , ive set it at 11.1v and 1.8A .its charging as I type so if I dont report back in about an hour then Im being identified by my dental records.
Good luck Joeted,
Going to be building a brushless 2nd Cub after my vacation, then upgrade the Spitfire to something similar to yours. (I dont want a super fast one).

So am very interested in what you are doing.

Where did you get the metal engine mount? was if from the uk?

Cheers,
Drew
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