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CX2 3in1 proportional mix can't adjust nose right anymore

Old 01-13-2009, 12:12 PM
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Unhappy CX2 3in1 proportional mix can't adjust nose right anymore

CX2 was stable since I bought it and was well trimmed. Then all of a sudden today started out with a lot of right rudder.

Adjusted 3in1 proportional control to max setting, still right rudder, even with trim of transmitter maxed out also.

Took it completely apart, everything looks good. No binding. Shafts ok. Motors seem ok.

Lower motor plug on 3in1 seems a bit slower to my ears when testing and switching motors around on 3in1. But very small difference (to my ears).

I guess the 3in1 or the reciever is at fault.

Anyway to tell without buying either to swap out?

Very sad if 3in1.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:54 PM
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pburt1975
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Best I can offer is that proportional control is highly sensitive. From what I had read before, it only takes minute adjustments there to have a big effect elsewhere. 1/16 turn incriments were suggested between testing and if going 1 way didnt help, try the other but always in small steps.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:57 PM
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I forgot to mention, inward pressure on this proportion control will damage it. DO NOT push against it like you would if you were putting a screw in wood or something. Just rest the tip of the screwdriver in the slot and turn.

when you go to try again, try and center the propo control. Turn it all the way left and mark it, then all the way right and mark it. Try and eyeball the 'center' of movement.
Turn the tx on, then plug the battery in.

Throttle up just enough to get the blades spinning. I believe it goes that if the top blade starts first you turn the prop control to the right, if the lower blade goes first turn to the left. What you are aiming for is the 2 to start as even as possible.
Once you're there, take it up a little to see how its behaving and adjust the trim, or try adjusting the propo control slightly to correct.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:55 PM
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Heli Jim
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depending on the age of the heli, the motors could be wearing out
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:08 PM
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Also check for any mnor damage to rotor blades. Any extra air resistance can in rease torque.

(I have also had some luck changing linkage on top rotor assembly to increase or decrease pitch of blades)



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Old 01-15-2009, 08:11 AM
  #6  
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Thank you all for your replies!

More info about the heli:

The blades and engines and heli are all new. (Christmas present) Also out of the box I put on the aluminum swash and lower rotor head. It was running nicely till a few days ago.

Well since I last posted......

I took it ALL apart again and put it back together, even the 3in1 + radio module. Centered the 3in1 adjustment screws.

Got it running and with some minor adjusting of the 3in1 I was able to stop the rotation to the right which previously the 3in1 could NOT do!

In fact it hovers steady just as it used to.

BUT NOW.... giving rudder right and rudder left in flight are completely different.

A stationary right rudder pirouette - no problem maintains altitude feels right, engines sounds right.

A stationary left rudder pirouette - PROBLEMS, slow turning, loses altitude as it turns, have to use much more rudder control to initiate the turns, have to increase engine power to stop the altitude loss, engines sound wrong.

So I have regained a steady hover, but now have left rudder problems.

Looks like either the lower blade motor is weakening or the 3in1 is flaky.

But it flies again! I guess a new lower blade motor would be the cheapest first step to getting it back the way it used to be!

Maybe spring for the heatsink too even though I was VERY careful to cool down the engines after every battery.
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:53 AM
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Left / right rudder on mine are not symetrical and I have to add more throtle when turning left versus right to maintain constant altitude. However, I would not descibe the sound as "wrong." Trim also drifts as battery

I agree - one of your motors may not be as strong as the other causing the asymetrical operation. (You compensate with electronic adjustment for hover but when you turn or increase altitude it cannnot compensate correctly.)

Cheap test would be to swap motor and see if behavior reverses. (Seriously doubt it is heat related if it happens immediately on a cold engine.)



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Old 01-15-2009, 01:59 PM
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Heli Jim
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You can't swap motors---the pinion gears determine which gear it will turn
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:17 PM
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With the shafts removed so both the motors gears are spinning freely, wind up the motors to full speed and move the rudder stick to the extreme left, then right. Notice each motor's RPM by the audiable pitch each motor makes. They should both achieve close to the same "note" musically. If not, swap the motor plugs and test again. This should help find a slow motor compared to a 3-in-1 problem.

Phil
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:21 PM
  #10  
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Thanks for everyone's help and input!

phupper,

YES, I did what you mentioned about running the motors by themselves and comparing each motor's perceived rpm tone the very first day!

There was a difference in the perceived rpm tone between the two motors. I also did swap the motors on the 3in1 too.

And sadly it was always the motor connected to the lower blade motor plug on the 3in1 which was perceived as slower....

I guess I'm trying to convince myself I don't have to buy a new 3in1, but you have just reminded me of my previous experiment in which the motors seems to run fine, but it was the 3in1's lower blade output plug which always seemed slower no matter which motor was used on it.

I may now have to bite the bullet and buy the darn 3in1 ....

I'm going to call E-flite about it too right now, since I've only used it for 2 weeks!

In any case I will report back to you all...
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:22 AM
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First make sure you don't have the gyro adjustment turned all the way left or right. Center it and run the test again, if you haven't already.

Phil
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:31 AM
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Well E-Flite says the warranty is FINISHED after you break ONE blade. (which I have)

So basically there is NO warranty.

E-Flite also agrees that it is the 3in1 which is bad and NOT the motor.

So tomorrow I will buy the new 3in1.



Hmmmm a new 3in1 every 2 weeks??? This could get expensive!
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:21 AM
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Sorry to hear that. E-flite's "one blade" rule seems kinda' harsh. Did you crash just before it stopped working?
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:00 AM
  #14  
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phupper -

No crashes for several days before it went bad.

The problem started after a battery change.

Well it's just the electronics and they don't last forever, but I was hoping for more than just 2 weeks!!

I'll post my findings after I install the new 3in1...
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:32 AM
  #15  
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Thanks all for your replies!

I bought the new 3in1 and installed it tonight... and .... IT WORKS!

So indeed all my problems were due to a flaky 3in1!

Well I'm back to having fun again!

Thanks again.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:26 PM
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The most common problem I have when my CX2 does that is when the screw that clamps the drive gear onto the long shaft (located just above the battery) comes loose and the drive gear slips. Make sure the screw is tight against the shaft. On my third 3-1 $$$, learned to install EF's circuit breakers to keep from frying another one.
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by singingperry View Post
The most common problem I have when my CX2 does that is when the screw that clamps the drive gear onto the long shaft (located just above the battery) comes loose and the drive gear slips. Make sure the screw is tight against the shaft. On my third 3-1 $$$, learned to install EF's circuit breakers to keep from frying another one.
EF's circuit breakers? What are they? Are they necessary for the CX2? Where do you get them?

Thanks,

Tim
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by whitehawk View Post
EF's circuit breakers? What are they? Are they necessary for the CX2? Where do you get them?

Thanks,

Tim

Over Current Protect / PTC Fuse Harness (2)
E-fliteEFLH1206
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
Would I be correct to assume that these are only needed for the older CX2's with the 4-n-1 unit?

Tim
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by whitehawk View Post
Would I be correct to assume that these are only needed for the older CX2's with the 4-n-1 unit?

Tim
For use between the motors and 4-in-1 control unit on models not equipped with factory-installed over-current protection PTC resettable fuse devices.
I assumed these were for older CX2 and all CX.


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Old 02-01-2009, 10:44 PM
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"Over Current Protect / PTC Fuse Harness (2)
E-fliteEFLH1206"


If that works, then it's the critical component that E-flite left out of the original 4-in1 design. I wonder why they would leave that out?
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:08 PM
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It's not in the 4-in-1. They are on the motors now. That add-on PTC set just plugs between the motor and 4-in-1. My understanding is the newest model of the CX2, when they went to a separate RX and 3-in-1 was when these appeared on the heli stock. Soldered to the motors.

If the OP has a 3-in-1 chances are he also has the PTC devices on his bird from new.
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:52 AM
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"It's not in the 4-in-1"

My point was that a fuse should be in the 4-in-1, it would have been a simple add to the design. E-flite has known, probably since the design phase, that overcurrent would fry the 4-in-1.

Not sure what you mean "They are on the motors now"

The fuse protection is at the motor connections?

Phil
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by phupper View Post
"It's not in the 4-in-1"

My point was that a fuse should be in the 4-in-1, it would have been a simple add to the design. E-flite has known, probably since the design phase, that overcurrent would fry the 4-in-1.
E-Flite did not design those parts. They are stock bits from other helis designed by ShenZhen TWF Company (E-Sky). Price mattered more at first I'd wager.

Not sure what you mean "They are on the motors now"

The fuse protection is at the motor connections?

Phil
I meant exactly what I said. The PTC devices are part of the motor. See this photo:


No change in the actual design of the electronics.

Basically what happened is E-F got tired of taking so many helis back under warranty finding fried electronics. So they did two things. 1. Added these fuses to the motors. 2. Amended their warranty policy. Chip a blade, kiss your warranty goodbye.

Slick huh? <--- please note sarcasm dripping off those two words.

(Note: I am not defending the way E-F or any other maker does things. Just trying to explain)

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Old 02-03-2009, 08:26 AM
  #25  
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Hi all,

I can verify my CX2 is the newer model with the 3in1 control unit, separate Spektrum AR6100e 2.4Ghz DSM2 microlite receiver, aluminum head inner shaft, AND....

over current protection for the main motors using a PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) resettable fuse.

The only things I have added to the stock CX2 above are:

1. Aluminum lower rotor head set.

2. Aluminum swashplate.

3. Main motor heat sink.

Still flying well since the new 3in1!
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